190 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

Skrapiron, on 26 March 2019 - 06:26 AM, said:

Congratulations, PGI. You've effectively rendered lock on weapons completely irrelevant to the game.

The intent was to de-emphasize the potent ability of LRM boating, but in the attempt to re-balance the game, they ruined it for anybody using lock-on weapons.

I switched out to SSRMs instead of LRMs. Even with full sensor quirks, I still cannot get a lock - even with LOS. Making matters worse, the missile nerf and AMS buff meant the entire alpha of SSRM-6 were eaten up before they left the launcher.

Streaks are working fine for me. I've been having 3 kill games with my streak shadowcat all night. You inability to achieve a lock or damage to the enemy mech isn't the fault of the missile. I'm having 1k damage games with it daily still. Nothing wrong with the missile system.

Quote

The worst is the ECM buff. If two or three ECM shielded mechs are standing in formation, they might as well be considered stealth mechs. You can't target them and since you can't target them, you can't shoot them with SSRM.

That's been the status with streak missiles FOREVER. Carry a tag, UAVs, active probes or ECM switched to counter mode, or combinations thereof.

A quick glance over at jarl's and at the current QP leaderboard and we find for your over 5900 matches it shows a pattern that while your average match scores have increased somewhat over time, there's been no commensurate increase in your kdr. That along with the majority of your play being in assaults mechs, followed by heavy mechs, plus the gist of your complaints above all combine to suggest you've just been using lrm's to spam damage across the enemy team as a crutch instead of learning proper map position and aim, and that lack of knowledge and/or ability to aim is now showing that you cannot use streaks instead.

[Monkey Lover]

PhoenixFire55, on 27 March 2019 - 01:02 AM, said:

Its 120m to max range of whatever lock-on you are using actually.

And the point here is not how many of them "stand" in that range for you, but rather whether you choose to have a chance to shoot them, or whether you choose to not even have a chance and just come b**ch on the forum about "waa waa nerf stealth armor" afterwards. I, for one, as a stealth light, am very happy to see a streak boat without tag, since I know I can just ignore it alltogether and leave it for sweet sweet dessert. So yeah, don't bring a tag please and allow your entire mech to be hard countered.

I wouldnt care if a streak boat had tag, under 120m theyre dead. Tag is basically worthless.

[JediPanther]

It is not longer lrm but rm. The long is gone.

[Khobai]

Skrapiron, on 26 March 2019 - 06:26 AM, said:

Congratulations, PGI. You've effectively rendered lock on weapons completely irrelevant to the game.

The intent was to de-emphasize the potent ability of LRM boating, but in the attempt to re-balance the game, they ruined it for anybody using lock-on weapons.

I switched out to SSRMs instead of LRMs. Even with full sensor quirks, I still cannot get a lock - even with LOS. Making matters worse, the missile nerf and AMS buff meant the entire alpha of SSRM-6 were eaten up before they left the launcher.

The worst is the ECM buff. If two or three ECM shielded mechs are standing in formation, they might as well be considered stealth mechs. You can't target them and since you can't target them, you can't shoot them with SSRM.

If PGI intended for all of us to move to point and shoot missiles, they did a great job. The only options left are SRM and MRM, but even then, the AMS buff and missile nerf kills any chance of actually hitting the target.

Looks like I'm going back to laser vomit - until PGI nerfs that again...

The funniest part of the whole thing is that LRM boating wasnt even potent enough to warrant a nerf.

JediPanther, on 27 March 2019 - 06:41 PM, said:

It is not longer lrm but rm. The long is gone.

it was always gone. LRMs have never been long range in the entire history of the game. They were always pretty useless beyond 500m-600m because of how damn slow they travel.

LRMs are supposed to have max range that rivals IS-ERLLs and IS-ERLLs can reliably damage mechs at 1500m.

the dumb x2 max range they gave lasers/ballistics but NOT missiles is mostly responsible for that.

Edited by Khobai, 27 March 2019 - 09:46 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Khobai, on 27 March 2019 - 09:42 PM, said:

The funniest part of the whole thing is that LRM boating wasnt even potent enough to warrant a nerf.



it was always gone. LRMs have never been long range in the entire history of the game. They were always pretty useless beyond 500m-600m because of how damn slow they travel.

LRMs are supposed to have max range that rivals IS-ERLLs and IS-ERLLs can reliably damage mechs at 1500m.

the dumb x2 max range they gave lasers/ballistics but NOT missiles is mostly responsible for that.

I look forward to the day pgi decides to increase lrm range to 1.5km. The amount of salt on the forums will be glorious. Can you imagine the crying from all the lurm taters sitting 1km away from the fight? The threads about nascar and "lights op" will take up 10 pages.

[Dee Eight]

they already shortened lrm range remember... prior to ATMs coming along the range for LRMs was 1000 meters.

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

So, I've abandoned lock-on weapons all together. Absolutely no benefit to hanging my butt out in the wind, praying for a lock, only to do minimal damage. If I can get a lock at all. There's been a noticeable decline in the number of missiles being fired in QP since the nerf. I used to haul around 2 or 3 tons of ammo for my AMS. I'm down to a ton and I end the matches with ammo left...
LRMs are an endangered species right now. I think the other lock on weapons are soon to follow.

[Dimento Graven]

Skrapiron, on 26 March 2019 - 06:26 AM, said:

Congratulations, PGI. You've effectively rendered lock on weapons completely irrelevant to the game.

The intent was to de-emphasize the potent ability of LRM boating, but in the attempt to re-balance the game, they ruined it for anybody using lock-on weapons.

I switched out to SSRMs instead of LRMs. Even with full sensor quirks, I still cannot get a lock - even with LOS. Making matters worse, the missile nerf and AMS buff meant the entire alpha of SSRM-6 were eaten up before they left the launcher.

The worst is the ECM buff. If two or three ECM shielded mechs are standing in formation, they might as well be considered stealth mechs. You can't target them and since you can't target them, you can't shoot them with SSRM.

If PGI intended for all of us to move to point and shoot missiles, they did a great job. The only options left are SRM and MRM, but even then, the AMS buff and missile nerf kills any chance of actually hitting the target.

Looks like I'm going back to laser vomit - until PGI nerfs that again...

Then the players you see having trouble with streaks are doing it wrong, very wrong.

If I had to guess, what you are seeing is players who were launching those streaks at MAXIMUM range, effectively taking what is a BRAWLING weapon and trying to "snipe" with them.

In the games I've played, I've seen both extremes, players who use them properly, get in range of their target, no more than a few hundred meters before launching. Everyone else I've watched are always at the most EXTREME range possible.

Also keep in mind the amount of AMS in the game has increased because of the buffs to LRMs and ATMs, so if a player is going to try and 'snipe' with streaks at maximum range, that's going to give the greater amount of AMS more time to chew up the missiles launched.

What you are witnessing is players playing badly, not a broken weapon system.

[Khobai]

Wil McCullough, on 27 March 2019 - 10:41 PM, said:

I look forward to the day pgi decides to increase lrm range to 1.5km. The amount of salt on the forums will be glorious. Can you imagine the crying from all the lurm taters sitting 1km away from the fight? The threads about nascar and "lights op" will take up 10 pages.

they could increase the range to infinite. they would still be useless at long range.

the problem isnt the max range. its the velocity.

LRMs crawl so slowly through the air that you can literally slow motion dodge them. Or just shoot them down with AMS.

The only way LRMs will ever be good at long range is if their velocity gets substantially increased. Which would also require some major changes to how IDF works.

Edited by Khobai, 28 March 2019 - 10:14 AM.

[HammerMaster]

Khobai, on 28 March 2019 - 10:11 AM, said:

they could increase the range to infinite. they would still be useless at long range.

the problem isnt the max range. its the velocity.

LRMs crawl so slowly through the air that you can literally slow motion dodge them. Or just shoot them down with AMS.

The only way LRMs will ever be good at long range is if their velocity gets substantially increased. Which would also require some major changes to how IDF works.

I told Chris Directly in the PTS that IN LOS needs to be very fast and almost insta lock. The IDF (WHICH CONTINUES TO BE AN ISSUE BECAUSE OF PARASITIC LOCK ON FARMERS) is what was needing to be addressed. That can stay slow all day for all I care.

[Khobai]

HammerMaster, on 28 March 2019 - 10:24 AM, said:

I told Chris Directly in the PTS that IN LOS needs to be very fast and almost insta lock. The IDF (WHICH CONTINUES TO BE AN ISSUE BECAUSE OF PARASITIC LOCK ON FARMERS) is what was needing to be addressed. That can stay slow all day for all I care.

The entire point of LRMs is IDF and long range. Those are the only two things LRMs need to be good at.

Making LRMs better at direct fire is a pointless endeavor since they will NEVER be as good as other direct fire weapons. What PGI is doing is just diluting the role of the weapon like they always do. They reduce everything down to the common denominator and people just go back to using lasers as always.

They need to make LRMs faster so theyre better at long range. And they need to make IDF harder to pull off to prevent the faster LRMs from being too good at IDF. IDF should only really be possible with TAG/NARC.

PGI could also add semi-guided LRMs as a variant of normal LRMs. Semi-guided LRMs could IDF on their own (provided they have a spotter with LoS) without NARC/TAG but with a penalty to damage. They would also be compatible with TAG/NARC as well.

Theres tons of ways for PGI to fix LRMs so they actually do what theyre supposed to do. PGI just refuses to do it.

Edited by Khobai, 28 March 2019 - 10:43 AM.

[Khale MacGregor]

Monkey Lover, on 26 March 2019 - 01:19 PM, said:

Last night watched a unit player run 3srm6 +machineguns did top damage a few times.

They nerfed indirect lock on weapons. Get in the correct range with los and you will wreck them. Stand back and potato and you get what a potato should get.

Praise Chris for the new system.

I sense someone here has had their french fries ruined on more than one occasion.

[Chortles]

Skrapiron, on 28 March 2019 - 04:55 AM, said:

Absolutely no benefit to hanging my butt out in the wind, praying for a lock, only to do minimal damage. If I can get a lock at all.

[Khale MacGregor]

Hazeclaw, on 26 March 2019 - 04:51 PM, said:

who is WE that asked for more lore style mix builds?

The only place where players were forced to use lore style mix builds has lead to a lot of top end pilots leaving the game, which is why everyone is b***ing now they don't have good players to carry them in solo QP drops

The main issue with this is that NOT EVERYONE is an elitest *******. and when you drop by yourself in a QP drop, you still have 11 team mates with mixed piloting skills. If you wanna be billy badass and try to take them all yourself and not help your team and the complain when you die after not doing more than 200 dmg or not helping by pressing your "R" key, then why the hell do you even play anything other than 1v1?
I myself prefer lore builds why? because of how long I have been playing the MW/BT games. I started off with BT tabletop, then moved onto mw2, then mw3, then mw4, MW: Dark age table top and so on. This is also the same reason why not everyone is a clanner, because People love the LORE. and do not see this game as a competitive race like all these hardcore players that want to be elitests. I love being able to having different builds for the same mech, for example, the RVN-3L you can create 3 different builds for it, You can use it as a Sniper, a Narc/Tag Scout, or a combat light. Or take for example the BLR-1S It can be a Brawler, a ERLL sniper, or a LRM boat.
If you wanna be a competitive elitest *******, go play fortnite.

[Novakaine]

A tale from WW2.
"General Patton I suggest we push the artillery ahead of our infantry and armor."
"Ah and why the hell is that?"
"They'll have a direct line of sight and be able to see their targets."
"We have infantry spotters for that you know right?"
"Yes sir, but with direct line of sight there's no lag in firing time."
"But what happens to artillery when they get over ran by enemy infantry?"
"Or get hit by the enemy tanks?"
"Well ah......"
"Lt. where are you from?"
"DC sir."
"Well that explains everything."
"Sir?"
"Major!!!"
"Sir!"
"Get this man out of my Army and a ticket back to DC!"
"Wait on second thought get this man a single howitzer."
" And put him about hmm 5 miles from point bravo."
"No crew though he should be a able to handle this."
"But er sir I rethinking......"
"Nonsense son get to moving"
"It will be just dandy you'll see."
Epilogue.
The young Lt. got to test his theory first hand.
His howitzer was destroyed with minutes of the opening battle.
And although he did survive it's destruction.
The young Lt. spent the rest of the war in a German POW camp.
No offense to anyone from DC or the immediate area.

Edited by Novakaine, 28 March 2019 - 11:26 AM.

[K O Z A K]

Khale MacGregor, on 28 March 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

The main issue with this is that NOT EVERYONE is an elitest *******. and when you drop by yourself in a QP drop, you still have 11 team mates with mixed piloting skills. If you wanna be billy badass and try to take them all yourself and not help your team and the complain when you die after not doing more than 200 dmg or not helping by pressing your "R" key, then why the hell do you even play anything other than 1v1?
I myself prefer lore builds why? because of how long I have been playing the MW/BT games. I started off with BT tabletop, then moved onto mw2, then mw3, then mw4, MW: Dark age table top and so on. This is also the same reason why not everyone is a clanner, because People love the LORE. and do not see this game as a competitive race like all these hardcore players that want to be elitests. I love being able to having different builds for the same mech, for example, the RVN-3L you can create 3 different builds for it, You can use it as a Sniper, a Narc/Tag Scout, or a combat light. Or take for example the BLR-1S It can be a Brawler, a ERLL sniper, or a LRM boat.
If you wanna be a competitive elitest *******, go play fortnite.

nice, gotta love all the hate for people that bring good mechs and allow you to play lorewarrior by carrying players like you. Not sure what all that stuff was about not helping team and doing 200 dmg, you're describing players like yourself. Nobody is forcing you to play meta mechs, I was just saying that you shouldn't be forced to play mixed lore builds either

Novakaine, on 28 March 2019 - 11:21 AM, said:

A tale from WW2.
"General Patton I suggest we push the artillery ahead of our infantry and armor."
"Ah and why the hell is that?"
"They'll have a direct line of sight and be able to see their targets."
"We have infantry spotters for that you know right?"
"Yes sir, but with direct line of sight there's no lag in firing time."
"But what happens to artillery when they get over ran by enemy infantry?"
"Or get hit by the enemy tanks?"
"Well ah......"
"Lt. where are you from?"
"DC sir."
"Well that explains everything."
"Sir?"
"Major!!!"
"Sir!"
"Get this man out of my Army and a ticket back to DC!"
"Wait on second thought get this man a single howitzer."
" And put him about hmm 5 miles from point bravo."
"No crew though he should be a able to handle this."
"But er sir I rethinking......"
"Nonsense son get to moving"
"It will be just dandy you'll see."
Epilogue.
The young Lt. got to test his theory first hand.
His howitzer was destroyed with minutes of the opening battle.
And although he did survive it's destruction.
The young Lt. spent the rest of the war in a German POW camp.
No offense to anyone from DC or the immediate area.

you're not artillery, you're a soldier that takes up a spot on the transport, but refuses to bring a rifle, instead taking only grenades, and once on the battlefield you stand behind the soldiers with rifles asking them to tell you where to throw them while they shield you from the enemy

[Khale MacGregor]

Novakaine, on 28 March 2019 - 11:21 AM, said:

A tale from WW2.
"General Patton I suggest we push the artillery ahead of our infantry and armor."
"Ah and why the hell is that?"
"They'll have a direct line of sight and be able to see their targets."
"We have infantry spotters for that you know right?"
"Yes sir, but with direct line of sight there's no lag in firing time."
"But what happens to artillery when they get over ran by enemy infantry?"
"Or get hit by the enemy tanks?"
"Well ah......"
"Lt. where are you from?"
"DC sir."
"Well that explains everything."
"Sir?"
"Major!!!"
"Sir!"
"Get this man out of my Army and a ticket back to DC!"
"Wait on second thought get this man a single howitzer."
" And put him about hmm 5 miles from point bravo."
"No crew though he should be a able to handle this."
"But er sir I rethinking......"
"Nonsense son get to moving"
"It will be just dandy you'll see."
Epilogue.
The young Lt. got to test his theory first hand.
His howitzer was destroyed with minutes of the opening battle.
And although he did survive it's destruction.
The young Lt. spent the rest of the war in a German POW camp.
No offense to anyone from DC or the immediate area.

2 words; 'Nuff Said!

[Khobai]

Hazeclaw, on 28 March 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

you're not artillery, you're a soldier that takes up a spot on the transport, but refuses to bring a rifle, instead taking only grenades, and once on the battlefield you stand behind the soldiers with rifles asking them to tell you where to throw them while they shield you from the enemy

And heres how you fix that.

1) make IDF require TAG/NARC. And the mech doing the TAGGING/NARCING gets 50% of the damage credit. 50% is fair since the IDF is impossible without the TAG/NARC.

2) increase the velocity of LRMs so they can actually hit things at long range. But IDF will be limited only to targets that are TAGGED/NARCED. That keeps the faster velocity balanced. If you let yourself get TAGGED/NARCED you deserve whats coming.

3) increase the overall utility of TAG/NARC to incentivize their wider spread use.  Give them additional abilities that work independently of whether or not you have an LRM boat on your team. Like change NARC pods to a combination of homing pods and shoot and sit pods that can do damage either by being detonated manually or upon their duration expiring. And give TAG some additional ability as well, like maybe the ability to call in an ARROWIV strike (with a limit of say 2 per team per game).

4) make prominent terrain elements destructible by missiles (but not lasers/ballistics). LRMs are never gonna be competitive as long as you can easily dodge behind an invincible tree/rock/building. By making some ("some", not "all") of those terrain elements destructible by missiles it will help make LRMs more competitive. It also makes AMS more important. Not having destructible terrain is quite frankly dumb. Even mechwarrior 3 had destructible terrain back in 1999.


Wow IDF is now not parasitic, useful, requires teamwork/cooperation, and theres more incentive to take TAG/NARC than ever before. And missiles would have a niche as a terraforming weapon for removing certain terrain as well.


You dont fix LRMs by making them worse at their intended role and turning them into an idiot weapon thats still worse at direct fire than every other weapon.

Edited by Khobai, 28 March 2019 - 11:53 AM.

[K O Z A K]

Khobai, on 28 March 2019 - 11:38 AM, said:

And heres how you fix that.

1) make IDF require TAG/NARC. And the mech doing the TAGGING/NARCING gets 50% of the damage credit. 50% is fair since the IDF is impossible without the TAG/NARC.

2) increase the velocity of LRMs so they can actually hit things at long range. But IDF will be limited only to targets that are TAGGED/NARCED. That keeps the faster velocity balanced. If you let yourself get TAGGED/NARCED you deserve whats coming.

3) increase the overall utility of TAG/NARC to incentivize their wider spread use. Give them additional abilities that work independently of whether or not you have an LRM boat on your team. Like change NARC pods to a combination of homing pods and shoot and sit pods that can do damage either by being detonated manually or upon their duration expiring. And give TAG some additional ability as well, like maybe the ability to call in an ARROWIV strike (with a limit of say 2 per team per game).


Wow IDF is now not parasitic, useful, requires teamwork/cooperation, and theres more incentive to take TAG/NARC than ever before.


You dont fix LRMs by making them worse at their intended role and turning them into an idiot weapon thats still worse at direct fire than every other weapon.

problem is increases in velocity to make lrms better at long range automatically make them extremely abusive in short range, you essentially end up with streaks that fly over cover

I quite like the idea that narcers should get a chunk of LRM damage and would be all for it

[Khale MacGregor]

Hazeclaw, on 28 March 2019 - 11:32 AM, said:

nice, gotta love all the hate for people that bring good mechs and allow you to play lorewarrior by carrying players like you. Not sure what all that stuff was about not helping team and doing 200 dmg, you're describing players like yourself. Nobody is forcing you to play meta mechs, I was just saying that you shouldn't be forced to play mixed lore builds either



you're not artillery, you're a soldier that takes up a spot on the transport, but refuses to bring a rifle, instead taking only grenades, and once on the battlefield you stand behind the soldiers with rifles asking them to tell you where to throw them while they shield you from the enemy

Spoken like the true DC scum that you are.. You make me laugh little lizard.

Obviously you have never been in the military, and if you were, it was either the Chair Force or the coast guard and Im willing to bet that your term of service was VERY short. because you do not seem to understand how artillery fire works.

My scores range from Low to High and everything in between. Mainly because I am trying new builds or a new mech, Its not a matter of having a good mech. and everyones definition of a "Good mech" is very different that other peoples. There are some mechs I am good with and some I am not. its just a matter of personal play style. Simple as that. I am better off in brawler mechs than in missile boats. News flash little lizard, most people try the same builds on different mechs and realize they dont work! so they stick with the mech they like, or they go off of what ever the "meta" is for the time. Granted there are some builds that do. Like the 4xML / 2xLBX10 combinations. I run this on a few different heavy mechs and it works great for brawling. and I do not know how many 4x LBX10 builds ive seen between Nightstars, Cyclops, Maulers, Fafnirs, Annis,..etc.

I do not need other players to carry me. But I do understand that this is a 12 v 12. not a 12 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 v 1 etc. So given that its a 12 v 12, I rely on my fellow team mates to work together, share armor, call targets, use the "R" key. 9 times out of 10, this strategy of working together as a team works! How about that? When I lose or die within the first few minutes of the match I dont get pissed, why? because I did something wrong. Do I blame My team? nope. elitests tend to blame everyone else but themselves. because they think they are better than everyone else. I do not know how many times i have seen supposed " good players in good mechs" die within the first few minutes and then blame the rest of the team because they ran off and went by themselves. Something tells me that you are guilty of that. Or they get pissed off because their teammate blew their back out for stepping in the line of fire trying to get the kill for themselves.