190 replies to this topic

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

Congratulations, PGI. You've effectively rendered lock on weapons completely irrelevant to the game.

The intent was to de-emphasize the potent ability of LRM boating, but in the attempt to re-balance the game, they ruined it for anybody using lock-on weapons.

I switched out to SSRMs instead of LRMs. Even with full sensor quirks, I still cannot get a lock - even with LOS. Making matters worse, the missile nerf and AMS buff meant the entire alpha of SSRM-6 were eaten up before they left the launcher.

The worst is the ECM buff. If two or three ECM shielded mechs are standing in formation, they might as well be considered stealth mechs. You can't target them and since you can't target them, you can't shoot them with SSRM.

If PGI intended for all of us to move to point and shoot missiles, they did a great job. The only options left are SRM and MRM, but even then, the AMS buff and missile nerf kills any chance of actually hitting the target.

Looks like I'm going back to laser vomit - until PGI nerfs that again...

[Dionnsai]

Bring ppcs

[VonBruinwald]

I'm not sure where you're having the problem. I'm finding the lock change has worked in my favour. Still struggling with the arcs though. I got used to teammates running in front of me and not having to worry because my missiles would clear their heads... they still do, just not so often.

I'm still out on AMS, usage has increased so I'm still trying to decide if it's more effective or not.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 26 March 2019 - 06:40 AM.

[KhanBhacKeD]

Skrapiron, on 26 March 2019 - 06:26 AM, said:

The worst is the ECM buff. If two or three ECM shielded mechs are standing in formation, they might as well be considered stealth mechs. You can't target them and since you can't target them, you can't shoot them with SSRM.

1) Wut? No ecm buff this patch so more than 1 month this should have worried you?

2) it's irrelevant : bap/tag can counter 1 ecm mech, if more than one UAV is your friend. (and this from a long time ago)

3) you definetely have faster lock with direct los actually so not that bad.

4) so please calm down and think about that.

5) after that I can't do more for you.

Edited by KhanBhacKeD, 26 March 2019 - 06:52 AM.

[Ghost Paladin117]

Yeah I'm not sure what you mean. LOS makes it easy mode for lock on weapons and even without lurm teams are still a major threat...

[K O Z A K]

All lock on weapons are still usable. Counters became more effective, but thats why theyre called counters. Ams was totally useless before, now its not. I was shooting streaks at a bunch of dual ams mechs gen rushing yesterday and at least half the missiles were getting through. MAYBE streaks could use a slight velocity increase

I think the lrm tragectory doesnt always switch between direct/indirect correctly which can be annoying

And ams shooting through terrain has to be fixed

Otherwise I was having more fun with lrms than before because of the new LOS mechanic

Stealth/ecm mechs can get close and can't get locked even with tag, but thats the price to pay for weapons that don't need aiming and shoot over obstacles when enemies can't shoot back

[Curccu]

KhanBhacKeD, on 26 March 2019 - 06:50 AM, said:

1) Wut? No ecm buff this patch so more than 1 month this should have worried you?

2) it's irrelevant : bap/tag can counter 1 ecm mech, if more than one UAV is your friend. (and this from a long time ago)

3) you definetely have faster lock with direct los actually so not that bad.

4) so please calm down and think about that.

5) after that I can't do more for you.

I was going to quote OP but well this sums it up pretty well... I would move 4th point to 1st though.

[Prototelis]

Equip tag. Put tag laser in streak group. Hold fire button. Fires as soon as you have the lock, gg light mech.

[Nesutizale]

TAG and PPCs work wonders on ECM. What makes me wonder is the AMS stuff. Sometimes there is no problem, I see the AMS firing at my missiles and I still get hits and sometimes nothing comes through.
Feels a bit RNG currently.

[Prototelis]

Streaks absolutely should get ate the **** up by ams.

Smol fastbois aren't going to have AMS anyways. Actually creates a reason to find that one back fatty with AMS on your team when the engagement starts.

Edited by Prototelis, 26 March 2019 - 08:52 AM.

[Mystere]

Hazeclaw, on 26 March 2019 - 06:55 AM, said:

Stealth/ecm mechs can get close and can't get locked even with tag, but thats the price to pay for weapons that don't need aiming and shoot over obstacles when enemies can't shoot back

So hunt down the spotter and shoot it instead!

And the more they've got the more options you have.

Edited by Mystere, 26 March 2019 - 01:10 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Last night watched a unit player run 3srm6 +machineguns did top damage a few times.

They nerfed indirect lock on weapons. Get in the correct range with los and you will wreck them. Stand back and potato and you get what a potato should get.

Praise Chris for the new system.

[The Basilisk]

Not entirely sure if the OP is aware that for everyone successfully able to use not lock on weapons LRMs and ATMs have actually been boosted or are even completely OP now.

What has been brought down is the possibility of ppl using LRMs to any success that have to stand back and hold still while spending 10th of seconds to sussessfully lock on the old LRMs and SSRMs or ATMs.

As before versus decent or good enemys you can use missile weapons at a distant but only with MUCH luck. Before the ideal range for LRMs was around 300ish meters. Now that range is imperative to do good damage with them.
ATMs should be shot from an even closer distance and SSRMs are weapons for point blank.

So in my opinion what was removed where a big chunk of the negative skill LRMs users that even got rewarded for their poinonous behavior over the time.

Nesutizale, on 26 March 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

TAG and PPCs work wonders on ECM. What makes me wonder is the AMS stuff. Sometimes there is no problem, I see the AMS firing at my missiles and I still get hits and sometimes nothing comes through.
Feels a bit RNG currently.

It is actually mech and mech skill specific.
There are multiple AMS mechs with certain quirks and AMS placements that are mercilessly effective against all time of missiles others not so.

[HammerMaster]

Meh.
LRM was situational before.
NOW just as ever.
All depending on:
1! Your lock style.
If you're a parastic lock farmer used to sitting back at 600 meters. Well yah. Time to move up.
2! AMS on the battlefield.
IF! there is just one or two dual AMS rigs on the field. Ya. You're done. BUT you can focus them down and resume your rain. Is that possible? Well. From the very beginning, it was coordination that was OP. Not the weapons.
3! GO TO 1!
4! Get used to running more direct fire until the AMS boats die down. It's a wave. This wave of LRM Balance is absolutely eaten by AMS DESPITE THE FACT THE LOCKS ARE SO MUCH BETTER IN LOS!

Edited by HammerMaster, 26 March 2019 - 01:50 PM.

[panzer1b]

Frankly my only issue with the current state of missiles is how worthless single launchers are even of the largest capacity per hardpoint. The combination of subpar damage (spread, easy to mitigate using cover/ecm, ect), and the recent AMS buff (which makes a single AMS actually effective against 1-2 launchers) forces you to either go full on boat like the LRM-60+ for IS, LRM-80 for clam minimum, or forego missiles entirely for alternative weapons which may or may not be available or optimal on a given chassis.

One mech that i own that has been massively hurt is the MAD-5D, since it has but 2 missile hardpoints and both the MRM-60 and a LRM-40 gets shat on by dual AMS (which is quite common these days on mechs that can mount them). Pretty much anything that cant bring 4+ hardpoints is now rendered useless with the exception of ATM-24s (need triple AMS to shut that down reliably).

Still, i will say there is a good side to the changes, AMS is actually worth carrying now, and i have made some very minor adjustments to some builds to accomodate a single AMS and half to a ton of ammo. Its still rare for me to use it, but its an actual consideration now that AMS is worth using even in a single mount, and i will bring it on any mech that does not have to sacrifice noticeably in the firepower dept to do it (ill never drop a DHS for it, but i will drop 1-2 engine ratings as 2-3 kph is worth loosing for a AMS especially on slow movers).

But yeah, SRM/MRM needs massive changes to missile health, its bloody direct fire and should not be vulnurable to AMS anywhere near as much (it should take at least 4 AMS to put a notable dent in a SRM/MRM volley purely because its rare to find mechs that have 4 AMS possible on them.

[HammerMaster]

panzer1b, on 26 March 2019 - 02:37 PM, said:

Frankly my only issue with the current state of missiles is how worthless single launchers are even of the largest capacity per hardpoint. The combination of subpar damage (spread, easy to mitigate using cover/ecm, ect), and the recent AMS buff (which makes a single AMS actually effective against 1-2 launchers) forces you to either go full on boat like the LRM-60+ for IS, LRM-80 for clam minimum, or forego missiles entirely for alternative weapons which may or may not be available or optimal on a given chassis.

And this is precisely WHY I SAID TO CHRIS: "DON'T NERF SINGLE LAUNCHERS!". During the PTS. Directly to him.
And here we are.
We asked for more lore style mix builds and single launchers in lieu of abomination builds which need to be suppressed. (Maybe just me?)
YET HERE WE ARE.

Edited by HammerMaster, 26 March 2019 - 03:20 PM.

[Mystere]

The Basilisk, on 26 March 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

Before the ideal range for LRMs was around 300ish meters. Now that range is imperative to do good damage with them.

I'm sorry folks but this is still not computing for me.

Edited by Mystere, 26 March 2019 - 03:16 PM.

[K O Z A K]

HammerMaster, on 26 March 2019 - 02:51 PM, said:

And this is precisely WHY I SAID TO CHRIS: "DON'T NERF SINGLE LAUNCHERS!". During the PTS. Directly to him.
And here we are.
We asked for more lore style mix builds and single launchers in lieu of abomination builds which need to be suppressed. (Maybe just me?)
YET HERE WE ARE.

who is WE that asked for more lore style mix builds?

The only place where players were forced to use lore style mix builds has lead to a lot of top end pilots leaving the game, which is why everyone is b***ing now they don't have good players to carry them in solo QP drops

[Ghost Paladin117]

HammerMaster, on 26 March 2019 - 02:51 PM, said:

And this is precisely WHY I SAID TO CHRIS: "DON'T NERF SINGLE LAUNCHERS!". During the PTS. Directly to him.
And here we are.
We asked for more lore style mix builds and single launchers in lieu of abomination builds which need to be suppressed. (Maybe just me?)
YET HERE WE ARE.

I like the lore and all but MWO is a competitive shooter. Not only that but what do you mean single launchers? If multiple mechs bring AMS a lot of your missiles deserve to be shot down. Why is this controversial with some people over this patch??? Some missile boats have different weapon combinations so they don't rely on just missiles of have narc in addition to the missiles. In fact the only mech that comes to mind that leaves itself completely vulnerable is one of the catapult variants. Mixed weaponry does well in MWO too depending on how good you are.

[GeminiWolf]

Skrapiron, on 26 March 2019 - 06:26 AM, said:

Congratulations, PGI. You've effectively rendered lock on weapons completely irrelevant to the game.

The intent was to de-emphasize the potent ability of LRM boating, but in the attempt to re-balance the game, they ruined it for anybody using lock-on weapons.

I switched out to SSRMs instead of LRMs. Even with full sensor quirks, I still cannot get a lock - even with LOS. Making matters worse, the missile nerf and AMS buff meant the entire alpha of SSRM-6 were eaten up before they left the launcher.

The worst is the ECM buff. If two or three ECM shielded mechs are standing in formation, they might as well be considered stealth mechs. You can't target them and since you can't target them, you can't shoot them with SSRM.

If PGI intended for all of us to move to point and shoot missiles, they did a great job. The only options left are SRM and MRM, but even then, the AMS buff and missile nerf kills any chance of actually hitting the target.

Looks like I'm going back to laser vomit - until PGI nerfs that again...

You do realize that ECM mechs only use the one ECM benefit not a combination of them all, right?