70 replies to this topic

[Acersecomic]

Ok so... I've had enough of light harrasing the assaults etc etc... and went on a hunt with my ArcticWolf.

Equipped with Clan Active Probe, Light Tag and ECM (so I can counter-ECM any lights under ECM) and yet... you can't lock onto an enemy under ECM. And I have ECM skills unlocked.
So what's the point of all these counters?

Edited by Acersecomic, 29 March 2019 - 04:34 PM.

[FupDup]

While you wait for missile/ECM mechanics to change (and/or for hell to freeze), there are direct-fire weapons available to accomplish your goals...

[Acersecomic]

FupDup, on 29 March 2019 - 04:36 PM, said:

While you wait for missile/ECM mechanics to change (and/or for hell to freeze), there are direct-fire weapons available to accomplish your goals...

If I wanted to run something else on the Wolf, I would have.
This is a thread about "why counters didn't work?".

[HammerMaster]

Acersecomic, on 29 March 2019 - 04:34 PM, said:

Ok so... I've had enough of light harrasing the assaults etc etc... and went on a hunt with my ArcticWolf.

Equipped with Clan Active Probe, Light Tag and ECM (so I can counter-ECM any lights under ECM) and yet... you can't lock onto an enemy under ECM. And I have ECM skills unlocked.
So what's the point of all these counters?

Because PGI didn't read the SOURCE MATERIAL where streak can be toggled OFF for Streak to run as REGULAR SRM when under ECM.

http://www.sarna.net...Angel_ECM_Suite
Game Rules

The Angel ECM Suite represents a great advance in ECM technology from the standard Guardian model. Within its 6 hex radius of effect, the Angel suite completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV, Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves (normal, emergency, and boosted varieties, but not the Nova CEWS), Streak Missile Launchers and Narc missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles.^[2]
When using ECCM rules, the Angel ECM Suite counts as two ECM/ECCM units (depending on how it is set) for the purposes of determining the ratio of ECM to ECCM in a given area.<sup>[3]

Also reference Guardian ECM</sup>
http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite


<sup>Streak SRMs are not affected by the Guardian suite and will be able to achieve hard lock as normal.[7]



Under PGI's implementation you HAVE TO STAY OUTSIDE of the 100 or so meters and use the TAG/BAP</sup>

Edited by HammerMaster, 29 March 2019 - 05:18 PM.

[FupDup]

Acersecomic, on 29 March 2019 - 04:46 PM, said:

If I wanted to run something else on the Wolf, I would have.
This is a thread about "why counters didn't work?".

The counters did work, just not in the way you wanted them to. PGI has made ECM counter lock-on missiles. This is unlikely to change in the near future, hence my recommendation of using weaponry that is not subjected to this limitation.

[Acersecomic]

HammerMaster, on 29 March 2019 - 04:57 PM, said:

^{Under PGI's implementation you HAVE TO STAY OUTSIDE of the 100 or so meters and use the TAG/BAP}

THIS! Thank you. This makes a lot more sense and accurate to my observations that match.

[Prototelis]

If streaks could fire without lock they'd just be SRMS. Board game mechanic makes no sense in action game.

Bring regular SRMs or do streaks in something jump capable.

[Maddermax]

BAP/Counter-ECM will stop any two regular ECMs from working in 120m, tag will provide lock-on on mechs more than 300m away (though it’s generally unnecessary for normal ECM if you have sensor tree skills).

The issue isn’t ECM, it is that Stealth armour makes ECM uncounterable. Its an issue, and stealth lights are essentially a hard counter to Streaks for this reason. Soon as they’re within 120m, you are useless if you bring only streaks.

My suggestion is bring a mixed SRM loadout - 3xSRM 6, 3xSSRMs, light TAG (not necessary these days, but ok for half a ton), take or leave the BAP for ammo depending on how you find it, I prefer the ammo. Normal SRMs on the arms for better aiming.

That way, you have an immediate burst shot when people are peeking or when a stealth light is harassing you, and scare them out of jamming range, and enough streaks to still be scary.

Edited by Maddermax, 29 March 2019 - 09:49 PM.

[FireStoat]

The Arctic Wolf 1 using Streak 2 x9 is hands down hilarious. I started using it with a light active probe and haven't had any issues with locks, as long as I don't hug an ECM target. OP, you're on the right track if you want to blow away fleas or fish mechs.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Your issue is this: As soon as you run AP together with ECM, the counter-part of the AP is disabled, and only your ECM, set to counter, will work against one enemy ECM.

[Kroete]

Maddermax, on 29 March 2019 - 09:46 PM, said:

The issue isn’t ECM, it is that Stealth armour makes ECM uncounterable. Its an issue, and stealth lights are essentially a hard counter to Streaks for this reason. Soon as they’re within 120m, you are useless if you bring only streaks.

For streaks, you are better off with 2 flamers then a tag now.
Tag dont reduce locktime anymore,
but 2 flamers let a stealthmech run or turn of his stealth after a few seconds.

Take 2 uavs together with the flamers and you will have fun with your streaks.

[Skippy The Danger Squirrel]

Acersecomic, on 29 March 2019 - 04:34 PM, said:

Ok so... I've had enough of light harrasing the assaults etc etc... and went on a hunt with my ArcticWolf.

Equipped with Clan Active Probe, Light Tag and ECM (so I can counter-ECM any lights under ECM) and yet... you can't lock onto an enemy under ECM. And I have ECM skills unlocked.
So what's the point of all these counters?

The point of the counters is to make lock-on weapons irrelevant to the game. The try-hard brawlers have been crying to PGI for years that missiles are OP and need to be nerfed. PGI listened and they've neutered LOW. The game has become a first person shooter with robots instead of aliens or demons. The meta builds are laser vomit and ballistics, with long range snipers being the rulers of the battlefield.

I've played more Polar Highlands in the last week than I think I have in a month of games. LRMs are an endangered species, even on that map. Instead, you have Gauss Snipers sitting in valleys picking off anybody who pokes their head over the hill.

Fun game play.

[Willard Phule]

The way PGI does ECM/CounterECM is actually fairly simple, but you've got to remember that ECM is a "bubble." That means if there's more than 1 ECM guy in your range, you need more than 1 counter.

Active Probes and ECM don't stack, so that's a waste of tonnage....unless there's a glitch that allows them to work together. But...if you're fully skilled and can carry 2 UAVs...that'll give you a total of 3 counter ECMs. Should work nicely.

[Mystere]

Prototelis, on 29 March 2019 - 08:49 PM, said:

If streaks could fire without lock they'd just be SRMS better.

FTFY.

Prototelis, on 29 March 2019 - 08:49 PM, said:

Board game mechanic makes no sense in action game.

In relation to SSRMs having two modes, my reaction to your comment is:

Edited by Mystere, 30 March 2019 - 05:49 AM.

[Sigmar Sich]

I have a question about BAP + ECM. Long time ago, PGI made BAP+ECM combo counter only one enemy ECM, with BAP providing only sensor/lock-on bonuses, but no counter to an ECM.
Did this changed? BAP plus ECM in counter mode, on a single mech, now can cancel two ECMs ?

[Gen Lee]

Sigmar Sich, on 30 March 2019 - 04:35 AM, said:

I have a question about BAP + ECM. Long time ago, PGI made BAP+ECM combo counter only one enemy ECM, with BAP providing only sensor/lock-on bonuses, but no counter to an ECM.
Did this changed? BAP plus ECM in counter mode, on a single mech, now can cancel two ECMs ?

Active Probes don't help counter an enemy's ECM's if you also have ECM on your mech. While the other benefits of the Active Probe will be active, the ECM counter is overridden by your own ECM. You cannot counter more than one enemy's ECM unless you use a UAV, or have another mech's ECM helping you in counter mode.

Edited by Gen Lee, 30 March 2019 - 05:11 AM.

[Sigmar Sich]

Gen Lee, on 30 March 2019 - 05:10 AM, said:

Active Probes don't help counter an enemy's ECM's if you also have ECM on your mech.

Thanks.
Good to know my sieve of a memory can still hold some things.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Skrapiron, on 30 March 2019 - 03:47 AM, said:

The point of the counters is to make lock-on weapons irrelevant to the game. The try-hard brawlers have been crying to PGI for years that missiles are OP and need to be nerfed. PGI listened and they've neutered LOW. The game has become a first person shooter with robots instead of aliens or demons. The meta builds are laser vomit and ballistics, with long range snipers being the rulers of the battlefield.

I've played more Polar Highlands in the last week than I think I have in a month of games. LRMs are an endangered species, even on that map. Instead, you have Gauss Snipers sitting in valleys picking off anybody who pokes their head over the hill.

Fun game play.

*jarls*
ah... alright. good to know and thx for your input.
now here's a thought:
maybe try out one of those dull laserboats or useless tryhard-brawling mechs for a few games yourself.
it might change your view on your poor endangered species lurmers.
probably will not, but one can only hope.

no offense meant, only going by the numbers.
lock-on weapons work really well, still. at least for me, and I've been playing them a lot since the patch. but then ...
I'm confident we have ..different.. playstyles, right?

Cheers

[Battlemaster56]

Why not have some back up weapons with your streaks just in case your streaks can't get locks or some other problems. I thought it was a wide known rule to have some type of back up when using streaks or any targeting base weapon.

[HammerMaster]

Prototelis, on 29 March 2019 - 08:49 PM, said:

If streaks could fire without lock they'd just be SRMS. Board game mechanic makes no sense in action game.

Bring regular SRMs or do streaks in something jump capable.

• justcallme A S H likes this

Ha. Same detractor and his "like" hanger on.
Please.
Same BOLD STATEMENT.
Hates BattleTech.

Edited by HammerMaster, 30 March 2019 - 03:02 PM.