62 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

Koniving, on 03 April 2019 - 03:02 PM, said:

It's in the weight class.
But gau-8 is regarded as an autocannon. The MG is regarded as a machine gun akin to anything from 50 Cal's to automatic 20mm grenade launchers. Though technically any HMG (battletech's MG) in real life above 15mm is considered an autocannon.

Digging through it a bit more... Yeah this is closer to BT MG. Probably to HMG for damage/rate. Depleted uranium core. No explosive component. Could have sworn I read that it was 5.1 meters long. The barrels though are 2.3 meters long alone. Keep in mind the shortest battlemech (Firefly) is barely 6.1 meters tall. Timber wolf pre-94 was 11.3 meters (scale model) and after 12.6 meters (MW2 official scale made Canon.) (Mwo it's nearly 15 meters tall).

Yep, and keep in mind the "heavy rifle" is what BT uses to refer to modern MBT main guns, and only does 9 damage. The GAU-8 destroys armor, but it's much weaker than the MBT cannon and only works against tanks by shredding thin top armor.

[Koniving]

Nightbird, on 03 April 2019 - 04:23 PM, said:

Yep, and keep in mind the "heavy rifle" is what BT uses to refer to modern MBT main guns, and only does 9 damage. The GAU-8 destroys armor, but it's much weaker than the MBT cannon and only works against tanks by shredding thin top armor.

Indeed. You are talking to the biggest Rifle nut in battletech. It's like a certain other person and quads....

I have found that chunks of BT weight goes into unexpected things.
For example a breakdown of PPC weight in Battletechnology basically shows us a PPC really only weighs 3 tons, the rest is in on board cooling devices, coils and armor to protect it. (for the 30+ years it was Canon before many changes to established Canon took place such as PPC minimum range going from "it's hard to swing a bulky gun around quickly to hit someone running circles around you" and "clan er ppcs don't have that issue because they are lighter" to "oh there is a firing delay preventing the gun from blowing up in your face but here's a kill yourself switch if you really want to hit that Piranha." And "ERPPCs don't have that firing delay cause they won't explode in your face.")

Similarly, a chunk of the weight for many weapons is the protection it has, cooling devices as necessary, and in the case of ammo consuming weapons the way it pulls ammo from the bin. Similarly between 10 to 20% of the ammo weight per ton is the bin and it's magazines/cassettes/drums/belts. Technically with cargo bays you don't lose a ton when you empty the bay. You don't lose a ton when emptying the ammo either. So a part of that ton is always with you as a bin, meaning it isn't truly a ton of ammo either.

So that MG alone isn't truly half a ton. After all AMS is a MG on a turret with a sensor system and a targeting system....and it's half a ton too. Admittedly it is depicted as a Gatling gun and similar in appearance to a CIWS...but it's half a ton. In TRO 2750 or 3025 (original whichever of the two it is) the Quad mech Goliath has MGs noteworthy not for mech specific reasons but brand-name reasons. Sperry-browning MG were exceptional in automatic target tracking and flexibility. An issue on the Goliath as not only could they track a target between the legs but also behind legs....and shoot those legs. The MGs also had two other traits. They are prone to overheating and jamming.

So this weight includes an automatic ability to aim on their own, track targets, and very clearly pivot on what I assume to be pintle turrets of typically 90 degrees to Goliath's 180 degree arc. Which may help to explain a lack of size.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Khobai, on 03 April 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

yes they are. they use the cluster hits table just like LBX does.

Hey. Guess what else uses cluster rules in TT?

MRMs.

[Steel Raven]

HAG= Gauss MRM is a good idea, fits the fluff and wont break the game.

Silver Bullet Gauss= Gauss LB-15X

I never liked Blazers or Bombast Laser but they have enough fans to make them worth while in this game.

[Grus]

also, if we get HAGS's ill take my arrow 4 launcher as well please...

[Khobai]

IdToaster, on 03 April 2019 - 07:16 PM, said:

Hey. Guess what else uses cluster rules in TT?

MRMs.

MRMs arnt a ballistic weapon though.

LBX is a ballistic weapon. Gauss is a ballistic weapon too. They have way more in common with HAGs than MRMs. And as such HAGs can be expected to work like a combination of the two.

Making HAGs work like MRMs will just make it a crappy weapon for all the same reasons MRMs are bad. Its better if HAG behaves like ballistic weapons since its you know... a ballistic weapon.

The last thing we need is more garbage weapons like MRMs. PGI has already ruined missile weapons in this game. They dont need to ruin new weapons too by repeating the same failings they did with missiles.

Edited by Khobai, 03 April 2019 - 09:41 PM.

[Lances107]

Work the HAG like any other Gauss, just instead of one round it shoots multiple rounds. Given the current state of racks and mrms, I doubt it would break the game.

Bombast lasers all for that, they worked the same way Gauss works in MWO, except in MW4. Neat thing though they dont require ammo.

[Snowbluff]

FupDup, on 02 April 2019 - 02:04 PM, said:

Unfortunately different cockpit and gyro types would require a full rework of how engines work in MWO because right now gyro and cockpit tonnage is rolled into engine tonnage. They'd have to become separate items and engines would need their weights reduced correspondingly. PGI would also have to make it go your gyro would automatically increase in tonnage as your engine does.

They could probably just add a flat modifier (based on your engine size) to your remaining weight and change the slot count on the weightless gyro item.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Khobai, on 03 April 2019 - 09:32 PM, said:

MRMs arnt a ballistic weapon though.

LBX is a ballistic weapon. Gauss is a ballistic weapon too. They have way more in common with HAGs than MRMs. And as such HAGs can be expected to work like a combination of the two.

That's like expecting HAGs to work like machineguns because MGs are also ballistics.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 03 April 2019 - 09:32 PM, said:

MRMs arnt a ballistic weapon though.

LBX is a ballistic weapon. Gauss is a ballistic weapon too. They have way more in common with HAGs than MRMs. And as such HAGs can be expected to work like a combination of the two.

Making HAGs work like MRMs will just make it a crappy weapon for all the same reasons MRMs are bad. Its better if HAG behaves like ballistic weapons since its you know... a ballistic weapon.

The last thing we need is more garbage weapons like MRMs. PGI has already ruined missile weapons in this game. They dont need to ruin new weapons too by repeating the same failings they did with missiles.

I mean MRMs got hurt by the missile health nerf, but that isn't an issue for HAGs.

A high velocity cluster burst that can't be destroyed by AMS would be formidable. I mean if you made MRMs immune to AMS and 1200 m/s velocity and share the same damage falloff as ballistic weapons, you think that wouldn't be a good weapon system? Sounds effective to me.

[Stargazzer811]

I've always been of the opinion that Hyper Assault Gauss Rifles should be like Ultra/Autocannons. Burst fire with the ability to double tap, but with that added chance of jamming (as they possibly can do according to Sarna). Whether or not the charging mechanic that normal Gauss has should go on HAGs, I would say no. Why should Gauss have a charging system at all when the capacitors are supposedly charged all the time (resulting in explosions when the rifle is crit hit), it just makes no sense. I do like the idea of maybe having a charging-esque sound for Gauss and HAGs right before firing but that's theatrical, for effect and nothing more.

As for adding Silver Bullet Gauss, it was mostly experimental until post-Jihad but I could see it. Its a 15 dmg LBX that fires out to maybe 650-700 meters and has the ability to explode, so treat it like a normal Gauss (protect with CASE, so on). Adding Blazers and Bombast would be interesting, as would Thunderbolt missiles (missiles with AC damage ratings). None of those would break the game more then it already has. Also, Clan RACs and Improved Heavy lasers please.

[Stingray Productions]

Maybe we'll get them eventually, but not anytime soon.

[PolarBear driving SoundWave xB]

is this real?
https://youtu.be/RyQ2ojGX0uo

[TercieIIC]

rs8xb, on 16 August 2023 - 04:14 PM, said:

is this real?
https://youtu.be/RyQ2ojGX0uo

Insanely it was on Twitch and then Reddit but no mention on official forums or site, but yes, it's real.

https://www.reddit.c...od_other_links/

Edited by TercieIIC, 16 August 2023 - 06:01 PM.

[LordNothing]

there are like 5 threads on the subject already, you didn't have to wake the zombies.

[PocketYoda]

I would say yes.

[SafeScanner]

Question

whats going to be the counterplay to the HAG 40 other than don't be there, 80 dmg around 810m is nothing to scoff at even if its a burst fire mrm40's can't pull that off pin point

[LordNothing]

SafeScanner, on 18 August 2023 - 06:42 AM, said:

Question

whats going to be the counterplay to the HAG 40 other than don't be there, 80 dmg around 810m is nothing to scoff at even if its a burst fire mrm40's can't pull that off pin point

well the clans dont have an answer to the mrm40 either (atms dont count, and you could parity those with mmls if you were so inclined). scouring over lore has failed to find a single clan missile system that can compete. the hag 40 has a little spread, so they both fall into the spray and pray category. cross type parity may be all we get.

is have several other ballistic options though, but nothing nearly as hard hitting. a buffed up sgbauss or an apocryphal rac10 come to mind.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 August 2023 - 10:46 AM.

[Athom83]

SafeScanner, on 18 August 2023 - 06:42 AM, said:

Question

whats going to be the counterplay to the HAG 40 other than don't be there, 80 dmg around 810m is nothing to scoff at even if its a burst fire mrm40's can't pull that off pin point

HAG 40 does 40 Damage, which is the same as what Ultra 20s were already doing. Technically speaking in its current implementation it does the same 5 damage per shot that cUAC/20s already do while being 4 tons and 2 slots larger. Counterplay would probably be similar to UAC/20 counterplay.

2 HAG-40s with 3 tons of ammo each (likely too little) and armoring the mech by itself is over 50 tons, and keep in mind there isn't an Omni mech that will be capable of using any HAG-40s anyways due to slot space. The only clan mechs that will be capable of doing it are like 3 variants of the Stone Rhino (but that's like saying the Fafnir can dual HGauss), the Kodiak 3, and the Warhammer IIC Maul hero, nothing else has the tonnage, hardpoints, and slot space capable of it.

[SafeScanner]

so hopefully limited in scope, people won't be happy getting smacked for around 80 at 810m+ (crying foul over sniper meta ect ect)

Least with x2 UAC-20 it gets hot with a dash of strawberry jam