67 replies to this topic

[FRAGTAST1C]

Nesutizale, on 04 April 2019 - 02:45 AM, said:

Makes me wonder why this rule has persisted in the tabletop for years and years while it has the same problems of not beeing fun for at least one person.

TT =/= Action Big Stompy Mech FPS

[B L O O D W I T C H]

On a sidenote, i think racs need their cockpit shake and explosion toned down by at least 50%.
Before tinkering with racs and uacs, i think normal acs, especially clan acs, are in a lot more need for attention.

[Nesutizale]

FRAGTAST1C, on 04 April 2019 - 02:47 AM, said:

TT =/= Action Big Stompy Mech FPS

Sorry loosing your weapon is annyoing no matter the game. In TT maybe even more as matches take far longer and sometimes its even your main weapons and not one of two or three UAC/RACs.

Toha Heavy Industries, on 04 April 2019 - 02:51 AM, said:

On a sidenote, i think racs need their cockpit shake and explosion toned down by at least 50%.

Shake is less a problem but taking away your visibility is a problem. If there would be a way to make the explosions somewhat transparent, that would be nice.

Edited by Nesutizale, 04 April 2019 - 02:56 AM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Nesutizale, on 04 April 2019 - 02:55 AM, said:

Sorry loosing your weapon is annyoing no matter the game. In TT maybe even more as matches take far longer and sometimes its even your main weapons and not one of two or three UAC/RACs.

Yeah, losing a weapon should be made to feel really bad to the player but in a genre like an FPS, make it such that it doesn't happen just like that. I don't mind losing weapons to enemy fire. But a weapon gets destroys 'cause it jams? This isn't a pirate weapon that just blows up for slightly misusing it.

[The6thMessenger]

Nesutizale, on 04 April 2019 - 02:55 AM, said:

Sorry loosing your weapon is annyoing no matter the game. In TT maybe even more as matches take far longer and sometimes its even your main weapons and not one of two or three UAC/RACs.

Is it fun just to stare people and not be able to do anything for you? Is it fun to be a stick?

[Gamuray]

The6thMessenger, on 04 April 2019 - 02:38 AM, said:

You'd achieve the same thing by having 0% chance of jamming with 2x the cooldown.

Issue with that is if you don't double tap (hold the fire button down) you've lost half your DPS. It'd work slightly better if the cooldown double only when double tapped. Just slightly though.

Either way, no jam, 2x cooldown (double tapped or just in general) would be better. I think we're in agreement on that.

[The6thMessenger]

Gamuray, on 04 April 2019 - 03:39 AM, said:

Issue with that is if you don't double tap (hold the fire button down) you've lost half your DPS. It'd work slightly better if the cooldown double only when double tapped. Just slightly though.

Either way, no jam, 2x cooldown (double tapped or just in general) would be better. I think we're in agreement on that.

Well, consider this:

The UAC5, with double cooldown is at 3.32s. If you shoot in the middle of the cooldown, thus consuming double tap, it's basically just 1.66s + 1.66s. But supposed that you double-tap after 0.2s -- it's still 0.2s + 3.12s = 3.32s, if you double-tap after 2s, this is literally just 2s + 1.32s = 3.32s, which is still basically the same.

It's practically the same, because math. The cooldown is still "doubled", there is still that doubled delay before the next cycle, if you shot it immediately.

However, there is this issue of partitioning. So if you shoot at 0th second, and then waited to shoot at 3.31s, you could instantly shoot once more at 3.33s which is the start of the next volley, which allows you to "burst" three times. That being said, we already have that stuff right now.

[Gamuray]

The6thMessenger, on 04 April 2019 - 03:49 AM, said:

Well, consider this:

The UAC5, with double cooldown is at 3.32s. If you shoot in the middle of the cooldown, thus consuming double tap, it's basically just 1.66s + 1.66s. But supposed that you double-tap after 0.2s -- it's still 0.2s + 3.12s = 3.32s, if you double-tap after 2s, this is literally just 2s + 1.32s = 3.32s, which is still basically the same.

It's practically the same, because math. The cooldown is still "doubled", there is still that doubled delay before the next cycle, if you shot it immediately.

However, there is this issue of partitioning. So if you shoot at 0th second, and then waited to shoot at 3.31s, you could instantly shoot once more at 3.33s which is the start of the next volley, which allows you to "burst" three times. That being said, we already have that stuff right now.

That's all true yes, but not what I was getting at. IF you have 2x cooldown no matter what, THEN holding down the fire button INSTEAD of spam clicking results in half the fire rate of an AC5 INSTEAD of the same. Having the cooldown only become double once you double tap means that you'll always have the same dps.

As I said, slight difference. Only really will matter with new player most likely.

[The6thMessenger]

Gamuray, on 04 April 2019 - 03:57 AM, said:

That's all true yes, but not what I was getting at. IF you have 2x cooldown no matter what, THEN holding down the fire button INSTEAD of spam clicking results in half the fire rate of an AC5 INSTEAD of the same. Having the cooldown only become double once you double tap means that you'll always have the same dps.

As I said, slight difference. Only really will matter with new player most likely.

Wouldn't it make better sense to just bring a regular ac for that? Kinda misses the point of the UAC, since we've already eliminated the jam there's little need to be wary of the double-tap.

[Gamuray]

The6thMessenger, on 04 April 2019 - 03:59 AM, said:

Wouldn't it make better sense to just bring a regular ac for that? Kinda misses the point of the UAC, since we've already eliminated the jam there's little need to be wary of the double-tap.

Yes, it would make better sense to always double tap. BUT having it not halve the DPS for holding down the fire button would be a slight refinement. It means it's literally an AC5 with an added function to double tap for burst.

Just a refinement. There's no downside to it.

[The6thMessenger]

Gamuray, on 04 April 2019 - 04:05 AM, said:

Yes, it would make better sense to always double tap. BUT having it not halve the DPS for holding down the fire button would be a slight refinement. It means it's literally an AC5 with an added function to double tap for burst.

Just a refinement. There's no downside to it.

Sure, it's just a refinement, but like I said just use standard ACs at that point.


That being said, I heard that there was this auto double-tap before, just re-implement that.

[Eatit]

Pie in the Sky!

I like that you guys think any of this matters. It appears that some of you even think PGI will read and react to this thread. It's Cute.

Keep up the good work men. You may actually get them to change something but I doubt it will be the way you want or expect. Even if what you're saying makes perfect sense it will be distorted and used to change 3 other unrelated things if it does happen.

[PhoenixFire55]

Eatit, on 04 April 2019 - 04:50 AM, said:

Pie in the Sky!

I like that you guys think any of this matters. It appears that some of you even think PGI will read and react to this thread. It's Cute.

Keep up the good work men. You may actually get them to change something but I doubt it will be the way you want or expect. Even if what you're saying makes perfect sense it will be distorted and used to change 3 other unrelated things if it does happen.

Its the internet man. Everybody posts here first and foremost coz they are bored. And you never know who might read it. Maybe another developer gets rights to MW franchise after current license runs out and maybe they will read and do it right.

[Eatit]

Right is a subjective concept. What you think is right may be different than what the next guy thinks is right. Hard to determine who's opinion is in alignment with the majority. As only like 2% of the people playing this game post on this forum.

[FRAGTAST1C]

I think the jams are required. It's an interesting quirk of the weapon but as suggested above (sorry, I forgot who suggested this and I'm not scrolling up), the jam bar should fill up the more times you double-tap but slowly dissipate as you stop double-tapping. Bigger UAC can have very small bar while smaller UAC can have a bigger jam bar. Well, that's just how I feel and it also works with eliminating the RNG factor.

[Sigmar Sich]

Hey guys, an idea. I think the general intent here is to walk away from randomness, to something predictable.

Remove jam, use flamer mechanics.

Both RAC and UAC would have a bar. Firing RAC or double tapping UAC would fill the bar. When bar is filled, every next shot generates exponentially more heat. Eventually, even cold guns will overheat you. It just needs right tuning.
Then you'd have to manage your firing rate to not overheat, and/or sacrifice some of your raw power to bring more cooling.

[Nesutizale]

The6thMessenger, on 04 April 2019 - 03:05 AM, said:

Is it fun just to stare people and not be able to do anything for you? Is it fun to be a stick?

The point is that the UAC is a burst weapon and should be used as such, that means you fire fast, then retreat. Removing the jam lets you burst beyond what the UAC was supposed to do...and why the RAC was developed.
Haveing it jam, maybe not for the entire match but at least have a jam chance is importend to the UAC.
Still it was allways a hardpunding moment when you fire your UAC and where very glad that it didn't jam. So the playstyle with the UAC that I would prefere is handling more like the UAC20. Every time you hit that doubletap you hope that it dosn't jam because it takes a freaking amount of time to work again.
That is what it feels like, I know the numbers are a bit different but its the basic playstyle I would wish for the UAC, you can burst high with low risk at the first try, medium risk at the second try and a 100% of a jam at the third time...also its still firing but then you get a very nasty cooldown.
Go out of cover, hit hard, go back or shoot normal but when the moment is right you hit em twice. Not hitting the doubletap constantly.

[PhoenixFire55]

Eatit, on 04 April 2019 - 05:00 AM, said:

Right is a subjective concept. What you think is right may be different than what the next guy thinks is right. Hard to determine who's opinion is in alignment with the majority. As only like 2% of the people playing this game post on this forum.

So?

[Mystere]

Nesutizale, on 04 April 2019 - 12:54 AM, said:

I still consider macros cheating. If you have to use an external program, its cheating.

Well, that's tough, for you, especially because the CoC explicitly says they are not.

But if you know a way for me to 100% fully utilize my HOTAS setup (which includes several 3-state switches, analog dials, and a 2-stage trigger [fantastic for gauss weapons, by the way]) with 0% macros, I'm all ears. But just to let you know, MWO cannot even detect at least a third of the available basic functionality of my gear.

And if you also know how I can use iPads as digital control panels without using an external program, please tell me.

But until then, I'll be using macros 100% of the time.

PhoenixFire55, on 04 April 2019 - 01:28 AM, said:

Who cares? ... Top players don't use macros coz marcos don't give any advantages, rather the opposite. When someone gimps himself by using them its hardly cheating.

You do not know what I know.

Edited by Mystere, 04 April 2019 - 07:06 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Your suppose to Burst damage then hide and cool with a RAC.. It's really not a brawler weapon. UAC's, are suppose to jam, IS side it is one of the reasons to actually use ac'S, Clan side does not really have one.

There is zero reason to buff either weapon, even if a crack shot with a PPC is still better overall.