322 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

Kunato Developments, on 14 April 2019 - 06:18 PM, said:

You're right, but i have to say it depends on the person.
Average doesn't means much if someone has a knack for lights (or assaults).
I know some people who are simply amazing light pilots but are just trash tier in assaults (and vice versa).

(PS: if you're know who i am talking about -> sorry )

Oh ya totally agree... I'm an certifiably rubbish in lights.

It's why when streaming people want me to play lights... They find join in my pain/rage/frustration lol. I mean most of the time I still doing semi-OK (ie, above average) as I know how they should be played. The execution is missing. Put me in an Assault and it's high value games almost everytime.

[GuardDogg]

An assault mech can move at top speed in Nascar, and get left behind (stretched). Also the enemy will be reaching the tail end. And the last mech in the tail end will go down. Been in that situation. Trying to stay with team. While looking at team, torso twisting looking left, but not able to see what is behind me, except for the mini map with UAV information. So, really having your back to the enemy isn't a happy camper.

At the start of round, all 3 lances do move, later all mechs are stretched out in a line. With the fastest in front, and the slowest in back. And who is in the back? The assaults. Then the fastest starts yelling out (in the microphone) at assault pilots for being to slow. I am like "are you for real?" Assaults pilots are not looking for butterflies and wondering why the sky is blue. Now, like someone wrote. Pilots backing up, hiding, doing nothing. Yeah, I can see the fire breath happening. Makes sense. But not when Assaults are trying their best to stay with team. Doesn't make sense.

Edited by GuardDogg, 14 April 2019 - 07:22 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

xX PUG Xx, on 14 April 2019 - 06:16 PM, said:

ALL of the STATS are circumstantial....ALL of them.

On the right map, with the right build, with the right team... an Assault is ferkin lethal in the right hands.


However on a typical QP map with a typical QP team, it gets left behind and has to fend off 2-4 Lights and 2-4 Mediums. It doesn't last long and gets steam rolled. Simple physics and no matter what BS you spout it is simple and proven, time and time again.

#supoortyourassualtorletthemdie.

Assaults being slow isn't a problem unique to you. Every assault is slow including the rest of your team's assaults. If YOU are getting left behind and have to fend off 2-4 lights and mediums, it makes it obvious it's a pebkac issue because your other teammates who are as slow as you aren't getting left behind but you are.

Also one thing to note is that if you're getting reamed by 2-4 lights AND 2-4 mediums, take it on the chin, park your *** against a wall, spread damage as much as possible and go down fighting. Because that's an awfully light weight team you're going up against. They barely have any heavies and assaults. Your team is gonna win if buy enouugh time for your nascaring heavies to reach their tail end. Even if they don't and the peek/poke starts, they're gonna come up on top in trades.

You got gifted a win what are you complaining about lol.

[Wil McCullough]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 07:21 PM, said:

An assault mech can move at top speed in Nascar, and get left behind (stretched). Also the enemy will be reaching the tail end. And the last mech in the tail end will go down. Been in that situation. Trying to stay with team. While looking at team, torso twisting looking left, but not able to see what is behind me, except for the mini map with UAV information. So, really having your back to the enemy isn't a happy camper.

At the start of round, all 3 lances do move, later all mechs are stretched out in a line. With the fastest in front, and the slowest in back. And who is in the back? The assaults. Then the fastest starts yelling out (in the microphone) at assault pilots for being to slow. I am like "are you for real?" Assaults pilots are not looking for butterflies and wondering why the sky is blue. Now, like someone wrote. Pilots backing up, hiding, doing nothing. Yeah, I can see the fire breath happening. Makes sense. But not when Assaults are trying their best to stay with team. Doesn't make sense.

If your aasaults are all slow and travelling together, you can take out a few lights. Together. Just focus fire with all the huge firepower you're bringing to the fight. What's all the fuss? It's super easy. No light can 1v3 or 1v4 a bunch of assaults unless all the assault pilots are absolute potatoes and will lose to everything, not just lights.

[xe N on]

The top tier assaults are easy mode for experienced and skilled players. Simply don't take slow assaults as the dire wolf to QP. There are a lot of assaults that running fast.

I rather play 50 to 55 ton mediums. Most challenging class in MWO.

[Xiphias]

xX PUG Xx, on 14 April 2019 - 06:36 PM, said:

Yup... obviously I'm just **** in Assault 'Mechs....yup, that explains it.

I mean if the shoe fits. I don't know how you are as a pilot, but great pilots seem to somehow avoid getting left behind nearly as much as the average assault so if your getting left behind consistently there's probably something you can do to improve.

xX PUG Xx, on 14 April 2019 - 07:03 PM, said:

Let's dissect this for a second.

So an Assault can move slower than the rotation, ignore the Light/Medium murder ball that is harassing it AND get in front of the Heavy/Medium 'Mechs that are in it's team? That are moving 20-30 KPH faster....yeah, OK dokey. Without outside interference?

I've literally done it in a 55 kph Atlas, you seem to neglect the amount of time that a pug team spends standing around not really making significant progress. Most maps you aren't getting significantly left behind by the time the lights get to you and a lance of assaults should be able to handle a couple of lights without a problem. Most lights aren't foolish enough to risk committing on an outnumbered fight.

If you're getting left behind there are usually shorter paths that you can take, lights/meds tend to take wider, safer routes around the map. You can usually cut inside of the rotation and take a shorter path (Caustic center for example) to head off the team. Teams simply don't run 100% throttle all the time in most pug matches, if you are 40% slower, but you go 100% throttle 100% of the time you are effectively the same speed who only goes 100% throttle 60% of the time.

I have been left behind by NASCAR and I agree that it's frustrating, but I don't seem to have nearly the same problem with it as most of the people on these forums.

I don't really know what else to say other than that I rarely have a problem getting left by NASCAR when I pilot assaults and I am far from an amazing assault pilot. I think the difference is that I play assaults with a light mech mindset where I am usually trying to get close to the enemy team as quickly as possible by running the most efficient route.

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 07:21 PM, said:

An assault mech can move at top speed in Nascar, and get left behind (stretched). Also the enemy will be reaching the tail end. And the last mech in the tail end will go down. Been in that situation. Trying to stay with team. While looking at team, torso twisting looking left, but not able to see what is behind me, except for the mini map with UAV information. So, really having your back to the enemy isn't a happy camper.

At the start of round, all 3 lances do move, later all mechs are stretched out in a line. With the fastest in front, and the slowest in back. And who is in the back? The assaults. Then the fastest starts yelling out (in the microphone) at assault pilots for being to slow. I am like "are you for real?" Assaults pilots are not looking for butterflies and wondering why the sky is blue. Now, like someone wrote. Pilots backing up, hiding, doing nothing. Yeah, I can see the fire breath happening. Makes sense. But not when Assaults are trying their best to stay with team. Doesn't make sense.

Sometimes it's unavoidable, but most of the time there are things that you can do to mitigate it. Cut shorter corners (e.g. go through the middle of the caldera on Caustic), don't stop/slow down ever (your team will almost certainly not be going 100% throttle the whole match). You'd be amazed at how big a difference pathing makes to your ability to stay with the team.

[cougurt]

something you should always try to do is examine your own gameplay with a critical eye, even when you're on a team that can't be carried or you end up in a bad situation that feels unavoidable. be honest with yourself and think of things you could have done better or differently.

even though solo queue is a chaotic nightmare most of the time, the good players still win significantly more often than they lose, and many of them do so in slow assault mechs.

[GuardDogg]

Xiphias, on 14 April 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

I mean if the shoe fits. I don't know how you are as a pilot, but great pilots seem to somehow avoid getting left behind nearly as much as the average assault so if your getting left behind consistently there's probably something you can do to improve.

I've literally done it in a 55 kph Atlas, you seem to neglect the amount of time that a pug team spends standing around not really making significant progress. Most maps you aren't getting significantly left behind by the time the lights get to you and a lance of assaults should be able to handle a couple of lights without a problem. Most lights aren't foolish enough to risk committing on an outnumbered fight.

If you're getting left behind there are usually shorter paths that you can take, lights/meds tend to take wider, safer routes around the map. You can usually cut inside of the rotation and take a shorter path (Caustic center for example) to head off the team. Teams simply don't run 100% throttle all the time in most pug matches, if you are 40% slower, but you go 100% throttle 100% of the time you are effectively the same speed who only goes 100% throttle 60% of the time.

I have been left behind by NASCAR and I agree that it's frustrating, but I don't seem to have nearly the same problem with it as most of the people on these forums.

I don't really know what else to say other than that I rarely have a problem getting left by NASCAR when I pilot assaults and I am far from an amazing assault pilot. I think the difference is that I play assaults with a light mech mindset where I am usually trying to get close to the enemy team as quickly as possible by running the most efficient route.


Sometimes it's unavoidable, but most of the time there are things that you can do to mitigate it. Cut shorter corners (e.g. go through the middle of the caldera on Caustic), don't stop/slow down ever (your team will almost certainly not be going 100% throttle the whole match). You'd be amazed at how big a difference pathing makes to your ability to stay with the team.

I have for example. HPG manifold. Team is nascaring, because they didn't take top (center). I am in the back, left behind. I go under to reach team (catch up). Team mates then question. Why is that assault go bottom? Well, I want to be with team. If I continue to stay behind team (length is growing) and nascar (not go under), then for sure I will be destroyed (easy target). I see a lot of assault pilots do this on that map. I even encountered enemy assault mechs doing the same, to catch up with team mates on the other side.

Edited by GuardDogg, 14 April 2019 - 08:12 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 08:11 PM, said:

I have for example. HPG manifold. Team is nascaring, because they didn't take top (center). I am in the back, left behind. I go under to reach team (catch up). Team mates then question. Why is that assault go bottom? Well, I want to be with team. If I continue to stay behind team (length is growing) and nascar (not go under), then for sure I will be destroyed (easy target). I see a lot of assault pilots do this on that map. I even encountered enemy assault mechs doing the same, to catch up with team mates on the other side.

What's the point of going basement in that case? You're no contributing to the fight cos all los is blocked, and it takes forever to get out if because you have to u-turn and get back up the ramps again.

Also hpg drop zonrs put assaults really close to the action. You're practically the first out if the gate. How you got left behind on hpg is baffling if it's not a pebkac issue.

[VigorousApathy]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 08:11 PM, said:

I have for example. HPG manifold. Team is nascaring, because they didn't take top (center). I am in the back, left behind. I go under to reach team (catch up). Team mates then question. Why is that assault go bottom? Well, I want to be with team. If I continue to stay behind team (length is growing) and nascar (not go under), then for sure I will be destroyed (easy target). I see a lot of assault pilots do this on that map. I even encountered enemy assault mechs doing the same, to catch up with team mates on the other side.

Alright after 5 pages of good advice, you are still coming up with specific scenarios that justify your anger. We love that sort of salt in the mines of terra therma, and it would be an honor to have you.

You should salt here instead: https://www.facebook.../?ref=bookmarks

Edited by VigorousApathy, 14 April 2019 - 09:35 PM.

[GuardDogg]

Wil McCullough, on 14 April 2019 - 08:34 PM, said:

What's the point of going basement in that case? You're no contributing to the fight cos all los is blocked, and it takes forever to get out if because you have to u-turn and get back up the ramps again.

Also hpg drop zonrs put assaults really close to the action. You're practically the first out if the gate. How you got left behind on hpg is baffling if it's not a pebkac issue.

No, you are not getting the pic. If team made top, yes I would have better chances of catching up and helping team better. But if team goes right, and already nascaring. I would have no choice to go bottom, to reach team on other side, then do stuff. Now, if I continue to go forward to top and enemy has top. Team is nascaring. Then I will be down in seconds. I would be a waste to team. Been told by other team mates to do this many years ago. Why didn't I go bottom, and then catch up with us on other side. So, I do it a lot if I need to. Other assault pilots do the same thing.

VigorousApathy, on 14 April 2019 - 08:52 PM, said:

Alright after 5 pages of good advice, you are still coming up with specific scenarios that justify your anger.

You should do that here instead: https://www.facebook.../?ref=bookmarks

Yeah, seems to be a losing battle of what I am trying to get across. It is like I am writing stuff to people that are playing a different game. Because since day 1 of MWO. Lights are invincible, and Assaults are vulnerable. Med/Heavies go hand in hand. Been an argument during game play (rounds). Assaults are always in the back of team. Now hearing "Assaults hurry up!" a lot lately. All doesn't make sense. Stupid.

Edited by GuardDogg, 14 April 2019 - 09:09 PM.

[VigorousApathy]

Xiphias took some time to give you solid info here.

Xiphias, on 14 April 2019 - 05:18 PM, said:

Assaults get focused because A) They are the biggest threat B ) They are the easiest target to hit. As a result, if you move into a bad position you are going to die very quickly. Faster mechs tend to be more forgiving to positional errors so in solo queue they can often survive longer for the average pilot. When the people shooting at you get better this ceases to be the case and in comp, lights can easily get insta-killed for a single mistake.

If you don't think assaults are fun then I recommend playing another class. If you insist on running assaults I recommend you watch some good streamers running assaults and learn how to use them most effectively. If you're getting called a waste of armor it's probably because you aren't piloting assaults effectively and you are essentially wasting the armor that a better pilot could have used. I'd rather have my team's good pilots in assaults if I want to win a match.


I pilot lights a lot and I've gotten plenty of complaints and backseat driving on how to play. Whether it's to defend the assaults (not the job of a light) or to cap the points (important, but often detrimental over fighting at a given time) to doing any number of silly tasks.




Depending on the mech a 280 is a bit on the slow side for an assault, usually a 300 tends to be the sweet spot.

While assaults can often be blamed unfairly for not keeping up, in my experience they are just as often rightly blamed because they are behind for preventable reasons such as i) AFKing at the spawn for a good 10-30s at the start of the match, ii) pick a terrible route that takes a long time/go the wrong direction, iii) stop moving to shoot or back up.

As an assault you need to plan where you want to be 30-60s ahead of time and start moving there. By the time you realize you are getting left behind it is often too late to catch up. A big mistake I see novice assaults make is stopping with the team to shoot and then staying planted until the team has already started to move away. You need to move to where the team is going to be not where the team is.

When I play assaults I rarely have a problem with getting left behind because I start moving immediately, move towards a strategic point using the shortest safe path, don't stop moving unnecessarily, and most importantly am constantly watching the map and correcting based on my team's position.

While it is possible to get left behind with nothing you can do, most of the time it's bad piloting or bad builds that are the problem. If you have issues getting left behind, try working on your movement. If you can't fix the problem, consider dropping some weapons and taking a bigger engine.


Don't chase the squirrel is less about the mech being dangerous and more about being out of position. It's not really a balance problem that a significant portion of the players in this game can't hit a light mech. You seem to think that assaults should be the best (they actually are) and that other classes shouldn't be as good at fighting. MWO is a multiplayer game and as such all the of the classes should be balance to be effective in the main aspect of the game, which is fighting.

Really though, just ignore the whiners and complainers. Focus on how you can learn from your mistakes and improve your gameplay. You'll have a much better time of it that way.


Lights can do better than all the other classes in the same way that any class can. But the statistics show that on average lights are the lowest performing class and assaults are the highest. This is not a fluke and your anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove it. At a comp level a good assault pilot can (and often do) kill a light in one or two shots. Pro assault pilots don't have a problem killing lights and absolutely do out score them on average.


Pros avoid getting in the situation to begin with and three pros in assault mechs could probably kill at least half an enemy team of average Joes before dying.


Obviously, assaults can't keep up with light mechs. The team isn't just lights though. Assaults can absolutely keep up with heavies in 95% of case. It takes a solid minute going max speed in a straight line for an Annihilator with a 290 (46.9 kph) to end up 568 m behind a Hellbringer with a 325 (81 kph). That's a lot of time to get left behind and few matches are straight out sprints 100% of the time. Play smart and you can avoid getting left most of the time.

tl;dr
Assaults are the most powerful class in the game so people tend to blame them for a loss. They are also a difficult class to play effectively and they don't feel powerful to you be because either your positioning, builds, and/or piloting need improvement.

[GuardDogg]

VigorousApathy, on 14 April 2019 - 09:16 PM, said:

Xiphias took some time to give you solid info here.

No, it is people attitudes towards assault pilots. I enjoy the class. Making a point across. People have their attitudes wrong. It is like telling Arnold Schwarzenegger to run the 200m in 20 seconds. And if he can not, he then sucks. And blaming him for not being in front. Doesn't make sense. The attitudes is confusing and wrong.

Edited by GuardDogg, 14 April 2019 - 09:54 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 08:56 PM, said:

No, you are not getting the pic. If team made top, yes I would have better chances of catching up and helping team better. But if team goes right, and already nascaring. I would have no choice to go bottom, to reach team on other side, then do stuff. Now, if I continue to go forward to top and enemy has top. Team is nascaring. Then I will be down in seconds. I would be a waste to team. Been told by other team mates to do this many years ago. Why didn't I go bottom, and then catch up with us on other side. So, I do it a lot if I need to. Other assault pilots do the same thing.



Yeah, seems to be a losing battle of what I am trying to get across. It is like I am writing stuff to people that are playing a different game. Because since day 1 of MWO. Lights are invincible, and Assaults are vulnerable. Med/Heavies go hand in hand. Been an argument during game play (rounds). Assaults are always in the back of team. Now hearing "Assaults hurry up!" a lot lately. All doesn't make sense. Stupid.

I do understand what you're saying. What i was trying to hint at (but obviously i need to be more direct) is that you got yourself inti that situation yourself because you made a series of potato decisions. Ergo, you're a potato pilot trying to push responsibility away from yourself. Charlie lance starts right at the gate on hpg. Your team's other lances run TOWARDS you because that's the closest gate. You somehow got left behind by a team that ran in your direction.

You got "left behind" WAY BEFORE the nascar happened because of a series of paste eating decisions. That's the only way to get left behind by a team that runs towards you. Also the reason why only you got left behind, not your other assaults. These decisions cab range from stalling at the gate trying to poke with an enemy light, getting a fetish for a particular ramp and refusing to move, not looking at your team's movement on the minimap until it's too late or all of the above.

The way you said that basement was the only viable route also hints that you're almost directly opposite your team before you realized you were out of position. When you're on opposite sides of the map, basement actually makes sense. In other words, the potato rotato went halfway across the map before you thought of moving from your spot. That also hints that you were at the lowest levels of the map, which means you stopped moving extremely quickly after entering the central area.

Is it that hard to see why your teammate got mad and pointed you out when you were cheerleading them all the way from zimbabwe?

Looking at your career stats, you're also a 30 percentile player. Stats-wise, most people hover at 50%. 30% means you are actively contributing to your team's losses. They would actually do better without you than with. Sorry to be that guy but you gotta wake up and smell the coolant. The potato rotato isn't causing your in game deaths. You are.

[GuardDogg]

Wil McCullough, on 14 April 2019 - 10:03 PM, said:

I do understand what you're saying. What i was trying to hint at (but obviously i need to be more direct) is that you got yourself inti that situation yourself because you made a series of potato decisions. Ergo, you're a potato pilot trying to push responsibility away from yourself. Charlie lance starts right at the gate on hpg. Your team's other lances run TOWARDS you because that's the closest gate. You somehow got left behind by a team that ran in your direction.

You got "left behind" WAY BEFORE the nascar happened because of a series of paste eating decisions. That's the only way to get left behind by a team that runs towards you. Also the reason why only you got left behind, not your other assaults. These decisions cab range from stalling at the gate trying to poke with an enemy light, getting a fetish for a particular ramp and refusing to move, not looking at your team's movement on the minimap until it's too late or all of the above.

The way you said that basement was the only viable route also hints that you're almost directly opposite your team before you realized you were out of position. When you're on opposite sides of the map, basement actually makes sense. In other words, the potato rotato went halfway across the map before you thought of moving from your spot. That also hints that you were at the lowest levels of the map, which means you stopped moving extremely quickly after entering the central area.

Is it that hard to see why your teammate got mad and pointed you out when you were cheerleading them all the way from zimbabwe?

Looking at your career stats, you're also a 30 percentile player. Stats-wise, most people hover at 50%. 30% means you are actively contributing to your team's losses. They would actually do better without you than with. Sorry to be that guy but you gotta wake up and smell the coolant. The potato rotato isn't causing your in game deaths. You are.

What ever. I am not the best when I do try. I couldn't care about numbers. So, piloting a assault at 39 kph, I am now considered a potato pilot. Okay will take it. But when telling a whole assault lance to hurry up. ....No, not going to happen when doing the best.. We all know MWO is flawed in many areas. So, their is no need to be the best. Just do your best. Numbers, ranks mean nothing.

Edited by GuardDogg, 14 April 2019 - 10:46 PM.

[Prototelis]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 08:56 PM, said:

Lights are invincible,

This is ********.

What are your mouse settings like?

[Wil McCullough]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 10:36 PM, said:

What ever. I am not the best when I do try. I couldn't care about numbers. So, piloting a assault at 39 kph, I am now considered a potato pilot. Okay will take it. But when telling a whole assault lance to hurry up. ....No, not going to happen when doing the best..

Admitting you're not a good pilot is the first step to becoming a better pilot. The next is figuring out why your teammates are salty with you. I had no issue keeping up and even leading nascar-ish pushes in assaults when i played because first of all, i don't bring assaults that move at 39kph. That is stock urbie levels of derp. No wonder you're getting left behind even by other assaults and no wonder you do poorly in matches. Your opponents have a field day shooting a stationary target when you're out of cover.

[Prototelis]

An ANH at max engine is almost 50KPH. 39KPH is too slow for just about every game mode.

[Khobai]

48KPH is too slow for just about every gamemode too

the problem is all the fast heavies. PGI needed to slow heavy mechs down and they never did it. heavies should not be going nearly as fast as mediums with 30% better firepower and armor.

fast heavies are the reason why going 48kph feels so bad. because the speed of fast heavies is too close to the speed of mediums instead of falling equally in between the speed of assaults and mediums. so when youve got a bunch of lights, mediums, and fast heavies on your team it makes the slow assaults the slowest mechs on the team by a huge margin and they often get left behind.

Edited by Khobai, 14 April 2019 - 11:32 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Khobai, on 14 April 2019 - 11:11 PM, said:

the problem is all the fast heavies. PGI needed to slow heavy mechs down and they never did it. heavies should not be going nearly as fast as mediums with 30% better firepower and armor.

I agree with this 'cause I, too, felt that something was amiss when my Hellbringer and Orion IIC could run at the same speed as a Nova. Actually, my Orion is faster 'cause of the speed tweaks but that's an orthogonal point. I get that certain mechs are slow despite being a lighter but an Orion IIC being faster than a Nova is just....

Edited by FRAGTAST1C, 15 April 2019 - 12:17 AM.