115 replies to this topic

[Alienized]

Y E O N N E, on 24 April 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

The point isn't to see them, it's to see them do well which...they don't.

i played lots of ppc just last night.
the worst i did was 159 with a sparky and that was because i totally messed up and found some enemies i should not have found :|

other than that? on heavies/assaults the IS ER PPC's work just fine. worst i personally did on a grasshopper (std engine, 3 or 4 jj's, 2 er ppc on high mounts + 5 small lasers) was 620dmg and 2 kmdd'S on tourmaline which i dont find too shabby as it was a stomp after all.
(solo queue that was)

i can agree that they are too hot in double usage for most mediums. after all its a heavy weapon barely suited for lighter mechs.

what i find way more plausible is that too many mediocre players use them hence dont perfrom well. but whatever ppl wanna tell me, i can make it work if i choose mechs/loadouts wisely. just with any weapon system they dont work on everything you want.

(ppc's mounted on hip hardpoints.... meh. no jj's, meh.) a dragon does well with them too or quickdraws.
now a light i really enjoy is the snub nose/slas/srm4 panther-9R.
or a snub nose/MG spider.
or a single er ppc trollmando.
:|
might look for a HPPC light as well

[Potatomasher69]

Anybody else feel like ERPPCs aren't bad, just nobody in quick play is fighting at 1000 meters?

[Tordin]

Xeno Phalcon, on 18 April 2019 - 02:30 PM, said:

Recharger iv never heard of, but we did have the canonical ppc 'capacitor' http://www.sarna.net...i/PPC_Capacitor

Ah. Remember those with ppc in MW4. Sure more punch, but quite a bit of heat AND in MWO I bet it would take up even more slot space ( couple that with slot increase due to endo, ferro, stealth, you get the picture ). Kinda defeats having many light ppc with caps on larger mechs. Guess cap light ppc would benefit light and to a degree medium mechs more. Just my two "kroner"

[Alienized]

Potatomasher69, on 24 April 2019 - 02:18 PM, said:

Anybody else feel like ERPPCs aren't bad, just nobody in quick play is fighting at 1000 meters?

why would anyone do that anyway. er ppc's biggest advantage is velocity/ no min range.
the extra range surely helped on alpine peaks/polar highlands killing some clan mechs tho with the nightstar.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Tordin, on 24 April 2019 - 02:40 PM, said:

Ah. Remember those with ppc in MW4. Sure more punch, but quite a bit of heat AND in MWO I bet it would take up even more slot space ( couple that with slot increase due to endo, ferro, stealth, you get the picture ). Kinda defeats having many light ppc with caps on larger mechs. Guess cap light ppc would benefit light and to a degree medium mechs more. Just my two "kroner"

The mechanic for them to fit into MWO is already in place, they just have to make the extra 5dmg splash like clan erppcs do.

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 24 April 2019 - 03:30 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Alienized, on 24 April 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

i played lots of ppc just last night.
the worst i did was 159 with a sparky and that was because i totally messed up and found some enemies i should not have found :|

other than that? on heavies/assaults the IS ER PPC's work just fine. worst i personally did on a grasshopper (std engine, 3 or 4 jj's, 2 er ppc on high mounts + 5 small lasers) was 620dmg and 2 kmdd'S on tourmaline which i dont find too shabby as it was a stomp after all.
(solo queue that was)

i can agree that they are too hot in double usage for most mediums. after all its a heavy weapon barely suited for lighter mechs.

what i find way more plausible is that too many mediocre players use them hence dont perfrom well. but whatever ppl wanna tell me, i can make it work if i choose mechs/loadouts wisely. just with any weapon system they dont work on everything you want.

(ppc's mounted on hip hardpoints.... meh. no jj's, meh.) a dragon does well with them too or quickdraws.
now a light i really enjoy is the snub nose/slas/srm4 panther-9R.
or a snub nose/MG spider.
or a single er ppc trollmando.
:|
might look for a HPPC light as well

You don't get it.

Anything you think you want to run PPCs on can run lasers even better with maybe two exceptions (WHK-PRIME and AWS-8Q). It doesn't matter how much damage you can pump out with PPCs, you can pump out more and better damage with lasers per point of heat. Lasers can trade better and receive better, there is no real advantage to taking PPCs except at extreme ranges with JJs to harass bigger and slower 'Mechs that are trying to use ballistics or PPCs themselves. This only really applies to cERPPC, and even then ERLL hard-counter them.

And we haven't even dived into the min-range drawback on non-ERs that renders dedicating to them overly risky but still run hot enough that you generally can't not dedicate to them; even the dakka+peep builds are hotter than they ought to be for the damage output (it's not 2016 anymore).

Edited by Y E O N N E, 24 April 2019 - 05:01 PM.

[Axys Rageborn]

I use 2x LPPCs on my BJ-1 with a pair AC2 and they have never let me down. you just don't brawl, I honestly believe its down to understanding your load out and playing towards its strengths via positioning and awareness. I agree that they could use a little tweek and that lazors in most cases are better but I love using ppcs and Ill keep doing so even if they don't change.

[Y E O N N E]

It's not the LPPCs on your BJ-1 that are doing the work, my dude.

[Axys Rageborn]

Y E O N N E, on 24 April 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:

It's not the LPPCs on your BJ-1 that are doing the work, my dude.

I am aware that the ac2 do most of the work but they are there to increase the damage potential at ranges beyond what lasors can offer. aslo helps with the peeking ability too

Edited by Axys Rageborn, 24 April 2019 - 05:47 PM.

[cougurt]

Potatomasher69, on 24 April 2019 - 02:18 PM, said:

Anybody else feel like ERPPCs aren't bad, just nobody in quick play is fighting at 1000 meters?

clan ERPPCs? yes. IS ERPPCs? hot garbage.

[xe N on]

All PPCs should have a chance to directly damage structure and components through intact armor. Their projectile speed should be doubled, too.

Lore Reason: BT armor is designed to evaporate at incoming heat damage (e.g. by lasers). Against projectiles the armor is reactive. PPCs combine lasers with projectile weapons. One could argue that PPCs could work as armor piercing weapons.

Edited by xe N on, 24 April 2019 - 09:40 PM.

[Alienized]

Y E O N N E, on 24 April 2019 - 04:49 PM, said:

You don't get it.

Anything you think you want to run PPCs on can run lasers even better with maybe two exceptions (WHK-PRIME and AWS-8Q). It doesn't matter how much damage you can pump out with PPCs, you can pump out more and better damage with lasers per point of heat. Lasers can trade better and receive better, there is no real advantage to taking PPCs except at extreme ranges with JJs to harass bigger and slower 'Mechs that are trying to use ballistics or PPCs themselves. This only really applies to cERPPC, and even then ERLL hard-counter them.

you are too much into theoretical stuff.
while you are right on a theoretical base you totally forget the player.

i can try to beat you at the lasergame all day long, its not going to happen.
alot of people try to beat better players with the same equipment.
it is NOT going to happen.

furthermore its easier to take out jumpsnipers/jumping ATM mechs with ppc's. (expecially if you cant hold the laserburn at one spot which alot of ppl cant do, me included)

Y E O N N E, on 24 April 2019 - 04:49 PM, said:

And we haven't even dived into the min-range drawback on non-ERs that renders dedicating to them overly risky but still run hot enough that you generally can't not dedicate to them.

why i always say, dont boat standard ppc's/heavy ppc's.
add weapons for close range stuff. instead of using 3 ppc's on a QKD-5K i just run 2 with 4 additional mlas and a mrm10.
why?

much more firepower between 100 - 300m range.

thats just not how the comp/meta goes but it works totally fine. always did tbh whatever the meta was.
would not use that stuff in solaris or any comp stuff but as we speak about general use as well. in group/solo it does work.

but my guess is, you never tried these things out and play in a different way than what you know.
i can't afford to do that as i would be horribly bad in doing what everyone else does

Edited by Alienized, 25 April 2019 - 01:21 AM.

[Wu Jen]

They ever put PPC Capacitors in they will rock!

[Khobai]

Adding PPC capacitors is a necessity to fix the whole line of PPC weapons.

Honestly its the only fix PGI should consider. Because a lot of these other suggestions like lowering the heat on PPCs will just make other weapons like large pulse lasers totally obsolete. LPL already struggles to find a design space it shouldnt have to compete with PPCs too. Its happened in the past when PPC heat was too low so theres no reason to think it wouldnt happen again.

PGI just has to balance PPC capacitors properly and avoid the stupidness of things like 4 ton LPPCs that do 10 damage. The amount of damage PPC capacitors add should be +50% of the base damage of the attached PPC instead of a flat +5 damage.



The easiest way to add PPC capacitors is just make them entirely separate weapons.

Like LPPC would be a weapon. Then LPPC+capacitor would be a separate weapon.

Then you dont have to worry about adding coding to link specific equipment to specific weapons.

Edited by Khobai, 25 April 2019 - 01:12 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 25 April 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

Adding PPC capacitors is a necessity to fix the whole line of PPC weapons.

Honestly its the only fix PGI should consider. Because a lot of these other suggestions like lowering the heat on PPCs will just make other weapons like large pulse lasers totally obsolete. LPL already struggles to find a design space it shouldnt have to compete with PPCs too. Its happened in the past when PPC heat was too low so theres no reason to think it wouldnt happen again.

The LPL's issue in the past was having bad stats in all attributes (range, duration, damage, etc.), not just PPCs having less heat than they have now.

Its issue right now is that PGI nerfed the damage in the name of making pulses into DPS lasers but they only did a half-assed job of it (didn't adjust cooldown and heat enough to make up for it). Thus the LL basically does the same thing for less tonnage.

Khobai, on 25 April 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

PGI just has to balance PPC capacitors properly and avoid the stupidness of things like 4 ton LPPCs that do 10 damage. The amount of damage PPC capacitors add should be +50% of the base damage of the attached PPC instead of a flat +5 damage.

That would make the Heavy CapPPC a bit crazy. 22.5 damage per piece, or 45 damage for a pair. Basically gives you the ability to pack the punch of the quirked AWS-8Q but with any mech you want (and for less tonnage).

Also the vanilla CapPPC would probably make the un-capped HPPC obsolete because of being lighter but offering the same damage.

I really just think that capacitors are low on the list of NuTech™ that would be beneficial to add. The base stats of the PPCs need to be balanced before we add items that modify the stats of PPCs.

Edited by FupDup, 25 April 2019 - 01:21 PM.

[The Lobsters]

LPPC's arent crit nerfed the way other PPC's are, and crit as normal.

For what that's worth.