97 replies to this topic

[Kanil]

Prototelis, on 19 April 2019 - 01:07 PM, said:

Mech selection before map selection in quickplay is honestly one of the best decisions the developer has made, it encourages variety.

All it does is encourage me to bring the exact same 'mech over and over again, because trying to bring something niche gets you screwed more often than not.

[Chortles]

HammerMaster, on 19 April 2019 - 12:03 PM, said:

Oh BS. I'm just as likely to choose Polar running my Legend Killer as my Warhawk just to not do Crimson because Nascar is no less bad than the "accepted" lemming tactic of not using 23,000 sqkm of map rather than 100 meters of that blasted tunnel. Loadouts is a lame excuse.
Cry.
Me.
A.
River.

So your singular choice proves me wrong even though there are 24 players in a match. Well done.

When you play FP, do you also stick with brawl mechs on long ranged maps even though the option to switch mechs is available? I hope you're on the other team if you do.

If loadout is a lame excuse, then explain this:

HammerMaster, on 19 April 2019 - 07:12 AM, said:

Can't.
Map exploitation.

[Prototelis]

Kanil, on 19 April 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

All it does is encourage me to bring the exact same 'mech over and over again, because trying to bring something niche gets you screwed more often than not.

And nothing but blue lightsabers and lrms on polar is variety?

What about the new player that decides to build a brawler first?

[R Valentine]

Prototelis, on 19 April 2019 - 02:05 PM, said:

And nothing but blue lightsabers and lrms on polar is variety?

What about the new player that decides to build a brawler first?

And gets polar and gets squished by LRMs never to play the game again? Sounds like all the more reason to pick maps FIRST, then mechs.

[HammerMaster]

Chortles, on 19 April 2019 - 01:58 PM, said:

So your singular choice proves me wrong even though there are 24 players in a match. Well done.

When you play FP, do you also stick with brawl mechs on long ranged maps even though the option to switch mechs is available? I hope you're on the other team if you do.

If loadout is a lame excuse, then explain this:

Pretty simple. Can't break it down more(less) than those 3 words.

[Chortles]

HammerMaster, on 19 April 2019 - 02:11 PM, said:

Pretty simple. Can't break it down more(less) than those 3 words.

Except map exploitation is such a vague term that anything can be considered map exploitation.

[HammerMaster]

Chortles, on 19 April 2019 - 02:18 PM, said:

Except map exploitation is such a vague term that anything can be considered map exploitation.

Ok

[Nameless King]

Eatit, on 19 April 2019 - 06:28 AM, said:

Easter is all about resurrection so I thought I would resurrect this old conversation.

I would like for PGI to create a Solo Quick Play que with drop decks and FW maps and modes.

It would work exactly like Solo Quick Play except you would have a drop deck. You could use either IS or Clan mechs in your drop deck. There wouldn't need to be side choosing it would be random teams of IS and Clan just like Solo Quick Play. None of the planet taking elements of FW would need to be included.

I think that it would introduce FW elements to new players and may encourage them to spend money on drop decks and mech packs to fill them.

The match maker would work exactly like it does in Solo Quick Play. Map and Mode selection would work just like it does now with only the added choices.

Solo Quick Play with respawns sounds super fun to me.

It could be called Community Warfare, or Drop Deck Quick Play... Throw out some names you would like it to be called.

Nope, QP is fine the way it is. This is dumb

[justcallme A S H]

The ole QP with dropdecks/respawn.

That's what FP is there for. QP and MWO doesn't need yet another queue/bucket.

No clue how this makes it to 4 pages for something that'll never happen.

[Nameless King]

Eatit, on 19 April 2019 - 07:12 AM, said:

Your contention is that new players don't have to buy decks and mechs for FW?

I think you are mistaken.

Um they dont have to play FW, they could just play QP like most players do and prefer.

[Nameless King]

Kiran Yagami, on 19 April 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

And gets polar and gets squished by LRMs never to play the game again? Sounds like all the more reason to pick maps FIRST, then mechs.

So you want a new player with maybe one mech half skilled to pick a trial mech instead of leveling the one they own? Yea great idea lol Sorry it is dumb to know the map before hand, all it does if give the advantage to players who have all the mechs.

[VitriolicViolet]

OP it would kill the game.

Look into why CW/FP failed so dismally.

One big reason was that with respawns the team who wins the fist wave is practically guaranteed to win after that point.
One team dies,the other moves toward their spawn point and die while damaging the enemies second wave. the winning team then drops in its second wave and now you both teams on wave 2 but one has already been damaged.

CW/FP always always snowballs in favour of whoever wins the first wave (unless you have balanced teams but that rarely happened even when we had over a thousand people playing CW at a given time)

[Anjian]

Quote

Map design becomes a critical issue with respawns since with respawns we also get places where spawing occurs and when that happens spawn camping ALWAYS occurs. This would mean that we currently have a tiny handful of maps where respwan points are even a consideration in map design (the Invasion style maps) and even these frequently can result in spawn camps.

Map design is indeed the critical issue but it is the opposite of what you expect. Maps actually need to be smaller so there is less walking from the spawns to the engagement area. No one wants to repeat a long walk four or five times within a match. With shorter travel times, you can also shorten match times --- or impose a time limit to make sure --- and shorter match times releases players back to the matchmaking queue the sooner, which leads to more match generation. This is a time proven formula with so many games, and its always critical to watch the travel time between spawn to the common engagement areas.

As for spawn camping, that is the problem of poor spawn doctrine. Not a problem if you can choose which spawn to jump to, and when you can jump in, including being able to do so instantly without waiting. Jumping with a fresh mech when all the reds are damaged amounts to a feast for the defender. This is another problem of MWO FP being such a poorly designed mode where you cannot choose the spawn point and when you can spawn in.

In games with respawn, attack on the spawn itself is just the final stage of a defeated team. The logic players will see in these games is that if you are spawn camped, you deserved to be spawn camped. If you don't want to be spawn camped, then you fight aggressively, take the fight to the enemy or learn to defend and control all the lanes towards your spawn. Less camping, less mobbing, less encircling and all that.

Edited by Anjian, 19 April 2019 - 08:04 PM.

[John Bronco]

Just play FP, half the time it's all solos anyway.

[Prototelis]

Kiran Yagami, on 19 April 2019 - 02:10 PM, said:

And gets polar and gets squished by LRMs never to play the game again? Sounds like all the more reason to pick maps FIRST, then mechs.

Uhmmm no, it's the exact opposite.

[Eatit]

The reason FW didn't have balanced games is that the MM for it has never matched by skill it's purely random. QP at least matches by Tier. It's not perfect but it's better than nothing. FW also had amazingly good teams that wiped everyone that faced them. This doesn't have that as it's solo only.

This mode will not replace solo QP it would be in addition to it. There would be 2 QP modes.

This mode takes the best of FW and QP and combines them.

From QP it takes tier based matching, solo only.

From FW it takes mech bays/respawns, mech choice after map selection, and more maps/modes.

I have an optimistic outlook on PGI's ability to create this. Many of you seem to be pessimistic about that. It's OK we can agree to disagree.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Eatit, on 25 April 2019 - 03:34 PM, said:

This mode takes the best of FW and QP and combines them.

From QP it takes tier based matching, solo only.

From FW it takes mech bays/respawns, mech choice after map selection, and more maps/modes.

I have an optimistic outlook on PGI's ability to create this. Many of you seem to be pessimistic about that. It's OK we can agree to disagree.

We have many modes already and most of them aren't used. Do you want to create another one? There's a reason why QP is named Quick Play. It's meant to be an instant action mode. Drop Decks are meant for FW 'cause THAT'S where all players who are able to load a few mechs into their drop decks should be playing. That's the main mode in MWO but it isn't treated as such 'cause PGI hasn't made use of the full potential of it. I think they're now trying to do that. But if you combine QP and FW into another mode but it doesn't have the career path and FW rewards, what good is it?

[Eatit]

FRAGTAST1C, on 25 April 2019 - 07:14 PM, said:

Drop Decks are meant for FW 'cause THAT'S where all players who are able to load a few mechs into their drop decks should be playing. That's the main mode in MWO but it isn't treated as such 'cause PGI hasn't made use of the full potential of it. I think they're now trying to do that. But if you combine QP and FW into another mode but it doesn't have the career path and FW rewards, what good is it?

Hi Fragtastic,

I think you are overestimating the value of FW by calling it the "main mode". Far fewer people play FW than QP.

That suggests that QP is the "main mode" of MWO. I'm sure fans of FW would like to believe that it's the "main mode" but the evidence doesn't support that theory.

You asked what good it would be if it didn't have a career path or FW rewards. The answer is that QP doesn't have those rewards and yet it's still the most popular mode by far. FW does have those rewards and very few people play it. Those rewards are meaningless in this game for the most part.

Taking the good things from the best mode and the good things from the worst and combining them will IMHO make for something FUN! I play games to have fun. I don't need my unit tag on some planet to have fun. Although I do think having respawns in QP would be fun. And who doesn't want a new map?

Going to the top on HPG and pushing 3 red mechs off is fun to me. I may die, my team may not follow me, but I had fun being the king of the mountain for a precious few seconds. Fun like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

The trick here is for PGI to determine what the majority of it's player base considers fun. Evidence suggest that they find QP fun. Taking a good hard look at which aspects of QP make it fun for the majority and enhancing those things is good business. Taking a look at a successful game mode and determining why it is successful versus an unsuccessful mode like FW or Solaris is also good business. Take what you've done right and expand on it is good business.

"Drop Decks are meant for FW 'cause THAT'S where all players who are able to load a few mechs into their drop decks should be playing."

Your assertion that players SHOULD be playing in FW doesn't explain why they aren't. Since the players are allowed to decide for themselves where they play and have mostly chosen QP the evidence suggests that they should be used in QP.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Eatit, on 26 April 2019 - 06:44 AM, said:

Your assertion that players SHOULD be playing in FW doesn't explain why they aren't. Since the players are allowed to decide for themselves where they play and have mostly chosen QP the evidence suggests that they should be used in QP.

Sorry to have to disagree with you heavily there. FW is meant to the be the main mode 'cause it has features in it that actually grants progression, like loyalty rewards, being in a Unit and working together in conflicts so that your Unit's tag will be displayed on the conquered planet, etc., etc., But that is handled so poorly that almost no one plays it regularly save for a few dedicated players.

So, in my assertion, QP is just that... instant action. Just get in, try new loadouts, skill up your mechs and get ready for the main mode i.e., FW.

[Eatit]

I understand your point that it's meant to be the main mode but reality has shown us that it's not. I don't know every reason that people don't play it, I just know that they don't play it.

They do play QP, so I think PGI should expand on that. FW has proven to be unsuccessful, expanding on that will likely result in the same.

I'm not saying that the people who like FW are wrong. I'm saying more people like QP and PGI should expand on it's success.

I hope you can see where I'm coming from.