23 replies to this topic

[FRAGTAST1C]

I don't remember much about the Mechwarrior series as the only game other than MWO that I've played is the one my friend had back when we were kids. I've played Heavy Gear a lot so, I want to play a mechwarrior game before the 5th one comes out.

[Karl Streiger]

People will tell you MW3... but given the mission design - the best is obviously MW2 Ghost Bears Legacy.
MW4 Vengeance get a bonus for the story (imho)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 29 April 2019 - 12:33 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

It's one of those things that may change from person to person depending on how old they are and when they were introduced into the franchise. The MechWarrior games are all rather old at this point (except MWO), so nostalgia is going to play a big roll in a lot of choices.

My first game in the franchise is MechWarrior 2, so I still have a lot of love for that title. It is very dated now, but I still feel like it was the game that really kicked off the MechWarrior brand.

All that being said, I think you could make a strong case for MechWarrior 4 (specifically Mercenaries) being the best MechWarrior game of the bunch. MechWarrior 4 did have some issues in my mind such as being more arcade-like in movement and actually embracing the 3rd person perspective. I think one could definitely see how MechAssault was a more arcade evolution of MW4 IMO. Still, it had probably the best MechLab up until that point and the Mercenary story arc was rather interesting and fun.


Runners Up (tie between MW3 and MW2:Mercs)...

MechWarrior 3 is close. It is probably the better game mechanically (feeling most like a simulator) and I still think the mech models are superior to MW4's models. Despite that, MechWarrior 3 had the old MechWarrior 2 style anything goes MechLab, and although the story was still good, it was very bare bones in both delivery and presentation. The redeeming part of the story is the voice acting was spot on IMO.

MechWarrior 2: Mercs would be a tie with MW3 in my opinion. It was an older game and is very dated by comparison, but it was the first real Mercenary experience and it felt pretty cool back in the day to run a merc company. It had a cool intro and it also had a nice character journal (a long with Comstar news) to follow along with the happenings in the Inner Sphere. Other than the dated game engine (modified from MechWarrior 2), it was very buggy. It's hitboxes and hit detection could be trash and it had some other technical hiccups. It felt rushed and the bugs were never really addressed in patch release after. It's still fun, but it has some glaring issues.

Lastly, I think MechWarrior 2 is a fun game to still play. I played it a few months back and it still brings back memories from when I was a kid. It is dated, however it still delivers for me. I know it wouldn't hold up to today's crowd, but I still recommend it for any MechWarrior fan. Despite being the second in the franchise, it really is the first accessible, first "modern" MechWarrior game IMO.

MechWarrior 1 is probably the most difficult to play now. Maybe only for the most hardcore of fans.

TL;DR...

That's how I would break it down. I think MW4:Mercs is probably the best and the one I'd recommend to new players. I think MW3 and MW2:Mercs are also good for those who just want more MechWarrior and are willing to play older games. MechWarrior 2 for those who are a bit more dedicated and MechWarrior 1 for those who want to experience it all.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Thank you very much. I got MW 4 from Abondonware. Hopefully it'll work.

[Xeno Phalcon]

MW2:Mercs was one of my favorites, also liked MW3 quite a bit (and the stupidly difficult to find Pirates Moon expansion). MW4 Vengeance was alright, hated the mech textures and that EVERYONE had access to clan mechs but the story was interesting, till mw4:black knight took a dump on it (sooooo lame), MW4:mercenaries picked up the ball nicely though and is pound for pound has the most content - including the not-suck solaris matches and multiple endings.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Xeno Phalcon, on 29 April 2019 - 05:42 AM, said:

MW2:Mercs was one of my favorites, also liked MW3 quite a bit (and the stupidly difficult to find Pirates Moon expansion). MW4 Vengeance was alright, hated the mech textures and that EVERYONE had access to clan mechs but the story was interesting, till mw4:black knight took a dump on it (sooooo lame), MW4:mercenaries picked up the ball nicely though and is pound for pound has the most content - including the not-suck solaris matches and multiple endings.

I still have my CD of both MechWarrior 3 and Pirate Moon. I'm half tempted to try and get it to work, but MW3 is notoriously difficult to get running correctly and may even be impossible on Windows 10. Even if it does run, the higher clock speeds of modern computers seem to play havoc with it's physics (like vehicles sporadically launching into the air). I may attempt it one day, but I'm not really that eager.

As a side note. I also recommend MechCommander. It's more of an RTS-like game, and not a simulator/fps, but it is still a lot of fun (especially if you like HBS's BattleTech).

I also have my original MechWarrior 2 CD as well. Luckily my copy is the DOS version so all I need for that is a well set up DOSBox.

[Karl Streiger]

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 April 2019 - 05:57 AM, said:

As a side note. I also recommend MechCommander. It's more of an RTS-like game, and not a simulator/fps, but it is still a lot of fun (especially if you like HBS's BattleTech).

there are some mods arround that increase the fun for MechCommander Gold and another stand alone for MechCommander2 (playing the MW2:Merc campaign -> this is really fun)

[MeiSooHaityu]

Karl Streiger, on 29 April 2019 - 05:59 AM, said:

there are some mods arround that increase the fun for MechCommander Gold and another stand alone for MechCommander2 (playing the MW2:Merc campaign -> this is really fun)

Yeah, there was a thread on the old HBS forum in the Off-Topic Forum that was about a MechCommander Gold mod that was pretty extensive. I can't remember the name of the mod off-hand though.

[Karl Streiger]

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 April 2019 - 06:06 AM, said:

Yeah, there was a thread on the old HBS forum in the Off-Topic Forum that was about a MechCommander Gold mod that was pretty extensive. I can't remember the name of the mod off-hand though.

OmniTech
https://www.moddb.co...mander-omnitech

about MW3 - i was able to run it, and was happy that it worked but then ingame some glitches and i was not able to see anything... really a pitty, maybe it would be simpler to grab some old XP PCs?

Edited by Karl Streiger, 29 April 2019 - 06:31 AM.

[Bombast]

It depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for the Mechwarrior game with the best "feel," that's hands down Mechwarrior 3. There's no Mechwarrior game that does a better job of making you feel like you're in a mech - Weapons fire bucks your frame, impacts feel and sound like their hitting you. Everything jukes and jives and sways and clangs like you think it should. The voice acting is on point as well, an achievement considering it was last minute and done cheap. Everything is brief and to the point, with just the right amount of tactical chat and barracks humor to make it feel like you're really on a risky military mission.

If you ask which one has the best multiplayer, I think most say Mechwarrior 4. Mechwarrior 2: Merc is another excellent entry, for reasons others have already said.

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 April 2019 - 05:57 AM, said:

...but MW3 is notoriously difficult to get running correctly and may even be impossible on Windows 10.

It's not impossible, but it is a pain and it does have some pretty horrendous errors. You're also do a lot of system and program restarts (Apparently MW3 does something with the system clock that makes it bugger the longer your computer has been turned on).

[FRAGTAST1C]

MW 4 is up and running. The controls, I thought, were going to be like MWO but they're vastly different. I just ran around a bit in Instant Action and it feels ok. I'll play it some more when I have some spare time.

[Tarl Cabot]

It really depends on what you are looking for. All of the MW games I had completed in a short amount of time when released. Replay.. maybe once or twice. Multiplayer portion /shrugs... For me the player created leagues were okay but were too finite, rigid when I had MPBT series.

For a consistent universe, Multiplayer Battletech series (MPBT).

• -- EGA MPBT 3025 on GEnie (1990-1996) was primarily PVE with some PVP on Solaris. When I played it was $6/hr during non-primetime, ie 6pm to 8am local time. During primetime (GEnie was a business network) it was $18/hr. Rates did change and this is when I learned a new phrase... Credit Card burnout....
  
• -- MPBT Solaris (1995-2001) - Originally SVGA MPBT 3025 but Kesmai got screwed by 3rd party devs for the Succession War portion of the game the by AOL. Kesmai created Gamestorm to move it and several other games over to it.
  
• -- EA's MPBT 3025 (2001) - EA in the late 90s/early 2000s were purchasing up gaming companies left and right, for software/development tools each company had as well as attempted to generate a factory to spit out games/series asap for a dime. Then late 2001 EA scuttled a majority of non-inhouse games, primarily for a few major(?) games, such as Majestic...

ROFL

It was into this niche that EA stepped to create an ambitious $20 million project that would fuse massively multiplayer interactivity, the growing variety of technological mediums, and conspiracy theories together. The project was Majestic, an alternate reality game (ARG) that would be the most expensive and highest profile attempt to date. It generated great amounts of interest and publicity, had a promising start, and then flared out hard by the end of 2001.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 29 April 2019 - 06:49 PM.

[Koniving]

MPBT's fate as a game to sell was pretty sealed when it came to the conflict of Microsoft owning Mechwarrior's license, and EA having bought up a studio with a licensed Battletech product...
and by definition, Microsoft had legal precedence..
Sadly Microsoft didn't care to use the franchise after both of its Mech Assaults flopped.

"It has TWO FUSION CORES?!?!?!!"...
Kill me now...

Anyway..

Best Mechwarrior game by feel?
MW3... mechanics, how it felt, how it translates to the source material, etc.. best thing ever done.
Enjoyment? MW2: Mercs.

Story?
MW1 hands down... Enjoying the game is a struggle today...hell it might have been a struggle back then, but what it represented at the time is amazing. Branching narratives, freedom of exploration, etc. Basically it had the MW 2 Mercs 5+ years before it existed, though even then the original BT PC game seems to have had this first.

But..
To me these still don't hold a candle to the MechCommander games...
Combined arms, not just in the field but under your control.
The original Battletech game is also a lot of fun.

MW5 takes a lot of inspiration from MW1, according to Russ.
It strikes me that MW5's story is similar to MW1, BT hawk's revenge, and HBS BT.

[Rorik Thrumsalr]

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 April 2019 - 02:49 AM, said:

MechWarrior 3 is close. It is probably the better game mechanically (feeling most like a simulator) and I still think the mech models are superior to MW4's models. Despite that, MechWarrior 3 had the old MechWarrior 2 style anything goes MechLab, and although the story was still good, it was very bare bones in both delivery and presentation. The redeeming part of the story is the voice acting was spot on IMO.

There was one enormous problem with MW3's mech lab: Internal heat sinks were not calculated and accounted for. This left some mechs very short on internal critical space (like the Timberwolf) and made me want to pull my hair out. Other than that MW3 had exceptional polish and extremely well made game and level design. Probably the best....

But as for the best game, I'd say MW2 and GBL. The games were so smooth and buttery, with gameplay that was equal to the performance. It had the best balance for difficulty and the most lore accurate mechlab (barring the fact you could modify both Battlemechs and Omnimechs with total impunity) No HITSCAN weapons and relatively low convergence meant that it took skill to aim and take down mechs quickly, but it also meant that it was more possible to dodge fire and that the mech survivability went up because of damage being dispersed more in lines of TT. It had extreme variance in mission design, few bugs and really kicked the series off. It's sound track (Gregory Alper & Jeehun Hwang) was the most effective in the series bar none. I'm biased, sure, but I think this one has the most still going for it.


Ahhh...Pirate's Moon was savage. I never remembered how hard it was until I replayed it last year. It practically forces you to stock up on HITSCAN weapons, lock in mouse aim, and snipe off legs as fast as possible. And that bonus mission....<shudders> But even with that I remember it fondly.

I had problems with MechWarrior 4, especially in regards to the AI. The fact that EVERY weapon was hitscan made the AI impossibly cheesy, being able to hit your mechs center torso far more than any real human could do. Goodness knows how many times I was almost instantly cored in my T-WOLF at long ranges, having being hit by only one volley directly in dead center despite my constant dodging.... BAD hitboxes in Black Knight and Mercs, poorly implemented heat dispersion and very ineffective "mid tier" weapons like medium lasers and smaller autocannons it made missions a slog unless everything went to the META. in MW2 or even 3 you could make a successful platform on basically any weapon subset (barring AC2's of course). It's really disappointing in hindsight having to churn your way through MW4 in such a manner. That being said hit had some really good merits. Running your merc unit was awesome, so was Solaris. The sheer number of mechs was amazing, as was the good variety in missions. It had a high unit count, making battles feel appropriately chaotic.

Anyways, as someone above me stated...
Ghost Bears FTW.

Edited by Rorik Thrumsalr, 29 April 2019 - 11:55 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

You had a lot of good points there Koniving. I never tried MW1, however from what I did see, the story was pretty good. I think it's biggest flaw was that the main gameplay loop could largely be ignored and the game still be winnable. Essentially sell everything, wait till the main contract comes up with an infusion of cash by your benefactor, and then complete the game. Mind you, if you didn't know you could do this, it didn't matter.

ADG talks about this in his video of MechWarrior 1 at the 3:24 mark...


As a side Note: ADG did misunderstand the issue with the Unseen when making the video, however a lot of people did try to help clear it up for him. It was confusing so I don't blame a person coming from outside the fandom making that mistake.

Koniving, on 29 April 2019 - 11:29 PM, said:

…

Sadly Microsoft didn't care to use the franchise after both of its Mech Assaults flopped.
…

I don't think MechAssault 1 flopped. I actually think it sold relatively well (probably largely in part to it being the first Xbox Live game). The game sold 750,000 copies with a total revenue of $26 million. It doesn't sound that impressive now, however back when the game came out and the industry was a lot smaller, those were good numbers. According to an article written in 2007, it was in the top 100 games of the 21st century as defined by units sold (#85).

https://web.archive....=2&pop=1&page=1

Now, I couldn't tell you if sales met Microsoft's expectations, just that it seemed to do rather well.

MechAssault 2 was definitely more of a flop. It had good review scores at the time, however I don't think that translated to sales. I couldn't find any sales data, but I want to say I did at one time and if memory serves me right, it was about half of what the first game did.

I know MechAssault is a rather loathed game in some circles, but I would like to try it for myself one day. I have watched a Let's Play of it (although a rather rough one narration wise) and it seemed like it would be fun. Heck, if I could get enjoyment from the PlayStation version of MechWarrior 2, MechAssault should be a riot of a good time for me .

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 30 April 2019 - 03:02 AM.

[Koniving]

Well, I can't say if the first one was a flop or not, I do know that reception was a bit mixed. Some enjoyed it, though much of its success and praise seems to come from outside of the Battletech fanbase; especially the second game which has a lot of love from those that...still don't know it is part of the Battletech/Mechwarrior franchise (and there's apparently some comments on youtube videos wondering how come HBS Battletech stole mech names and shapes from Mech Assault...if that says anything).


When I get back into making videos, it'll be among the games I put up in a bit of a marathon of mechs. I just need to figure out how to emulate them, as their functionality on an xbox 360 is questionable, and then I'd have the issue of recording it (not worth buying a capture card just for a pair of games.)

It has some merits, but the first is rather loose with its lore...and the second as far as I can tell makes **** up as it goes ultimately having about as much to do with the Battletech universe as the Millennium Falcon does with Star Trek.


So, someday soon.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Koniving, on 30 April 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:

Well, I can't say if the first one was a flop or not, I do know that reception was a bit mixed. Some enjoyed it, though much of its success and praise seems to come from outside of the Battletech fanbase; especially the second game which has a lot of love from those that...still don't know it is part of the Battletech/Mechwarrior franchise (and there's apparently some comments on youtube videos wondering how come HBS Battletech stole mech names and shapes from Mech Assault...if that says anything).

When I get back into making videos, it'll be among the games I put up in a bit of a marathon of mechs. I just need to figure out how to emulate them, as their functionality on an xbox 360 is questionable, and then I'd have the issue of recording it (not worth buying a capture card just for a pair of games.)

It has some merits, but the first is rather loose with its lore...and the second as far as I can tell makes **** up as it goes ultimately having about as much to do with the Battletech universe as the Millennium Falcon does with Star Trek.

So, someday soon.

Reception being mixed is probably an understatement lol. Then again, I have met some people who absolutely hate MechWarrior and say it isn't BattleTech too. It just depends on a person's experiences and preferences I suppose.

I think the biggest problem with the MechAssault games (other than it's streamlined simplification for consoles) was that many might have thought that it was the future of the franchise (and in some ways they were right when it came to the immediate future). MechWarrior 4 had quite a bit of streamlining when compared to MechWarrior 3 even. One could even say that MechWarrior 4 was even made to be played in 3rd Person. I think that people saw MechAssault as a continued evolution of that and maybe that generated more hostility from the fanbase than I think it deserved.

It's hard for me to say being such an outside observer from that place and time, but I think there might be some truth to it.

Microsoft was refocusing efforts on their new console and a game like MechAssault was going to work better with limited console controls and a console audience. Who knows, maybe some the anger was also misplaced and should have been directed at Microsoft for abandoning the PC and it's BattleTech audience as well. It's hard to say.

As a person that avoided most of that history in the franchise (MW3: Pirate Moon was my last BattleTech experience until MW:O), I guess I don't carry that emotional baggage from the time and am willing to try and look at it and enjoy it for what it is. I'll also say that if MW:O, HBS BattleTech, and MW5 didn't exist, I may have looked at MechAssault differently.

[ObeyTheLion]

I have MW4 on CD thanks to one of my Friends and i had a ton of fun with it before discovering then having the specs to run MWO. You'd like to pick that one up. Since plus to the base game, you can download the Mek Tek Mechpack. Which adds around 50+ extra mechs into the game(Including the Stone Rhino! You hear that Stone Rhino fans?)

o7

Edited by ObeyTheLion, 30 April 2019 - 11:20 PM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I finally got around to watching some live footage of the Sharp X68000 port of MechWarrior 1 and I have to say, the presentation is very good. Being a Japanese only computer, the version of MechWarrior for it has been converted to an anime aesthetic.

The only down side is the actual in game combat engine is still just as clunky as the PC version.

[HammerMaster]

For me it's a toss up between mw2 mercenaries and mw3 (3 was most "simmy"). Mw4 was a cartoon abortion but the voice actors really made it great for me (Spectre and Duncan Fisher).