123 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

Huh? ... Dragon is good, Champion and Rifleman are better, and Quickdraw (at least IV-4) is pretty much amazing.

[Jackal Noble]

Koniving, on 30 April 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

O.o;

Bare minimum skill tree to get advanced zoom. Nothing else. First time using it (used GXP to get it to where it is). Just treat it like a Jagermech.


And everyone says I suck...
So if I can do it, don't see why you can't. Keep at it, try to think of it differently from others.

My personal favorite Rifleman and one of my cash cows is the Legend Killer.

Now, I’ve seen some players ride on the backs of others, hell I’ve been guilty of 200-250 dmg games where I was disconnected or afk and ended up with 3 kills. This video, however takes the cake.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Gilgamecc, on 30 April 2019 - 11:53 AM, said:

The Rifleman is ton-for-ton the strongest offensive mech in the game, and it is perfectly suited to playing a defense-through-firepower role as well.

That's quite a bold statement. Although I enjoy my energy vomit IS Rifleman, the mech does suffer for some serious weaknesses even with skill tree nodes. They cannot take damage and do have some pretty bad heat problems, hence why I understand OP's complaints about the mech. When you aren't targeted by the enemy team it does really shine so I can't argue that.

Skrapiron, on 30 April 2019 - 10:05 AM, said:

I am not sure how to deal with this phenomenon. Every mech that I have that is 60 tons, plain sucks. They are too slow to deal with mediums and lights, too under gunned and way too under armored to deal with real heavies and assaults.

What mechs do you have in the 60 ton range besides the Rifleman that sucks? My Vulture is still my go-to missile boat because of how awesome the mech is, and Champions seem like some of the best mechs that MW:O has to offer in the IS heavy department. 64.8kmph is still standard optimal speed for any heavy though a bit slow.

[Gilgamecc]

They don't have heat problems if you build it properly, instead of trying to shoehorn in a build from some other mech. And they roll damage better than most mechs.

It seems like you might just need to work on your fundamentals.

[HammerMaster]

How is 60 tons a disease?
55 and 60 ton is really where the sweet spot is. If you try to facetank or brawl with a rig that clearly can't do it. What do you expect?
Play more opportunistically. Don't over commit. Plant fire then fade.
The problem is more likely your implementation.

[Dimento Graven]

Jackal Noble, on 30 April 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

Now, I’ve seen some players ride on the backs of others, hell I’ve been guilty of 200-250 dmg games where I was disconnected or afk and ended up with 3 kills. This video, however takes the cake.

Yeah mostly opportunistic play there.

A few solid kills though...

[Xeno Phalcon]

HammerMaster, on 30 April 2019 - 01:48 PM, said:

How is 60 tons a disease?
55 and 60 ton is really where the sweet spot is. If you try to facetank or brawl with a rig that clearly can't do it. What do you expect?
Play more opportunistically. Don't over commit. Plant fire then fade.
The problem is more likely your implementation.

55 is where all my mech waifu live.

This nova is just a phase, i'll never leave you kintaro baby! ;.;

[FLG 01]

The Champion has become one of my favourite Mechs because it actually performs well. Really well.
The Rifleman is a very potent glass cannon (and make no mistake, that is a good thing: no Mech can withstand enemy fire well unless we are talking about quirk monsters). The Dragon generally suffers from bad hardpoint composition and placement, but still can do well. I am not overly familiar with the Vulture and the Hellfire, so won't judge them.

But on the IS side the 60t Mechs range from ok-ish to damn good. There is no total waste of release like the Uziel.

I think the reputation of the Mechs is a greater problem than their performance. See, I was never a fan of the Champion for example, and its looks are somewhat special. But it feels right, it plays well. It is fun. Shocking as it may be for some, fun matters to me when playing a game.

[Gristle Missile]

I don't really understand the complaint about the Rifleman's durability

Sure it doesn't have amazing defensive quirks and its pretty wide, but its also thin from the side with big arms that can shield.
It makes it pretty easy to splash damage across all your torsos and arms at mid/long range if you bother to twist properly... just don't fall into brawling range unless you are rocking a Legend Killer with LBX or something.

but bottom line: its obvious it was intended to be a fire support mech with lots of offensive quirks so you will probably get the most effect if you stick with your heavies/assaults and shoot at what they shoot at and what is shooting at them.

And of course, always abuse the high arm mounts when you can.

Edited by Gristle Missile, 30 April 2019 - 02:49 PM.

[The Lost Boy]

ok the dragon Fang, just has a crap ton or armor. 2 rac2 on the gun arm and 3 med las. it runs like 75 kph and has a heat of 1.75. the hit boxes are poor. but it has as much armor as a 90 tonner. hardly a glass cannon

[Maddermax]

Skrapiron, on 30 April 2019 - 10:05 AM, said:

I am not sure how to deal with this phenomenon. Every mech that I have that is 60 tons, plain sucks. They are too slow to deal with mediums and lights, too under gunned and way too under armored to deal with real heavies and assaults.

I've been grinding away with my loyalty Rifleman for two days now and hate it. The hit boxes are huge, the armor is non existent and it has no structure.

Anyone figure out a way to make these glass cannons viable?

The problem here is likely the fact it’s the loyalty Rifleman - it’s definitely designed to get you killed. The rifleman is not a staring mech - it has a bullet catching profile and mediocre armour, so using the 8Ds RAC quirks will get you killed. You need to be able to peek/hill hump, and twist damage like a mofo. Meanwhile, Jump jets are generally useful for pop-tarting on other mechs, but the rifleman has such a good peeking profile, you’ll often expose less by hill humping than pop-tarting where possible, unless you’re very good at minimum-height poptarting. It’s also not really XL safe, because of armour issues and it’s flat profile making it easy to pick apart open torsos- on the other hand, half a rifleman with a LFE is still dangerous.

So minimal jump jets, and no RACs, and you may as well take another rifleman with better quirks, like the 3c/n or ledgand killer, unless you’re really good at poptarting. The 8D can definitely work, it’s just if you build it towards its “strengths”, it will get you killed.

Edited by Maddermax, 30 April 2019 - 04:06 PM.

[LordNothing]

the champion leveled pretty fast for me. i find it rather tanky too.

[FupDup]

Maddermax, on 30 April 2019 - 04:02 PM, said:

The problem here is likely the fact it’s the loyalty Rifleman - it’s definitely designed to get you killed. The rifleman is not a staring mech - it has a bullet catching profile and mediocre armour, so using the 8Ds RAC quirks will get you killed. You need to be able to peek/hill hump, and twist damage like a mofo. Meanwhile, Jump jets are generally useful for pop-tarting on other mechs, but the rifleman has such a good peeking profile, you’ll often expose less by hill humping than pop-tarting where possible, unless you’re very good at minimum-height poptarting. It’s also not really XL safe, because of armour issues and it’s flat profile making it easy to pick apart open torsos- on the other hand, half a rifleman with a LFE is still dangerous.

So minimal jump jets, and no RACs, and you may as well take another rifleman with better quirks, like the 3c/n or ledgand killer, unless you’re really good at poptarting. The 8D can definitely work, it’s just if you build it towards its “strengths”, it will get you killed.

I've had the exact opposite experience where I rarely die from ST loss in a Rifleman. Even when using a 2 RAC/2 + 4 ERML build (and still having reasonable survivability, enough to get the job done usually).

[Alienized]

another problem is that the teams usually are too bad. assaults hiding too much. too many ppl in general just fail to move or simply have no clue what they have to do with their mechs in general. they have a role to do.
if you like it or not, you have to or you will be awful in it.
especially the 60 ton mechs can take damage but shouldnt face heavy stuff alone. if your heavier mechs fail to do their job, the 60 tonners cant do theirs.
simple as this.

One major drawback of every quickdraw but the IV-4 are the quirks. they once all had armor quirks.
now they got a joke of structure quirks. im sure that'll do for those huge chassis.

Edited by Alienized, 30 April 2019 - 04:32 PM.

[Yiryi-Sa]

Gristle Missile, on 30 April 2019 - 02:41 PM, said:

I don't really understand the complaint about the Rifleman's durability

Sure it doesn't have amazing defensive quirks and its pretty wide, but its also thin from the side with big arms that can shield.
It makes it pretty easy to splash damage across all your torsos and arms at mid/long range if you bother to twist properly... just don't fall into brawling range unless you are rocking a Legend Killer with LBX or something.

This. The Rifleman is, however, hilariously good at brawling if you build for it. Try a Rifleman 3N with 1 AC/20, 5 Medium Lasers, four tons of ammo and whatever else of your choosing.

[justcallme A S H]

Koniving, on 30 April 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

And everyone says I suck...

Wouldn't be a "advice" thread without a 2yo video filled with poor gameplay and of course bad advice.

• Shutting down, behind cover, to avoid LRMs is the same as Radar Derp
  
• "Assessing a target" because you're totally out of positon in the low ground and unable to shoot at anything for ~30s.
  
• Constant ADVz @ 130m requiring extended time to stabilise mouse/fire.
  
• All you did was kill steal after your team did all the work.
  
• Walking out in the open and getting halved because you chased a cookie/kill steal and zero map awareness.

Priceless gameplay - please keep posting them, gives me much entertainment. Just like you claims you "tank" your stats, its clear each video that you aren't tanking anything...

Skrapiron, on 30 April 2019 - 10:05 AM, said:

I am not sure how to deal with this phenomenon. Every mech that I have that is 60 tons, plain sucks. They are too slow to deal with mediums and lights, too under gunned and way too under armored to deal with real heavies and assaults.

I've been grinding away with my loyalty Rifleman for two days now and hate it. The hit boxes are huge, the armor is non existent and it has no structure.

Anyone figure out a way to make these glass cannons viable?

Anyway on a more serious note - Every 60T Chassis has, IMO, at least 2-3 good variants to use. That's extremely rare in the current state of the game.

I think if you don't think they are any good that is it probably build or poor play that is resulting in a lacklustre experience.

They certainly are not glass cannons at all.

Which mech/variant are you having issues with? I'm sure I can come up with a bunch of builds that will decimate all @ NARCAR wars.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 30 April 2019 - 04:50 PM.

[HenryFA]

Koniving, on 30 April 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

O.o;

Bare minimum skill tree to get advanced zoom. Nothing else. First time using it (used GXP to get it to where it is). Just treat it like a Jagermech.


And everyone says I suck...
So if I can do it, don't see why you can't. Keep at it, try to think of it differently from others.

My personal favorite Rifleman and one of my cash cows is the Legend Killer.

Kill steal, not sharing armor, 0 use of terrain as cover, advance zoom with that build? Yep, you're really bad...

Check Jarl's... 31%...

Hmmmm... No wonder...

[Maddermax]

FupDup, on 30 April 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

I've had the exact opposite experience where I rarely die from ST loss in a Rifleman. Even when using a 2 RAC/2 + 4 ERML build (and still having reasonable survivability, enough to get the job done usually).

Range and positioning can definitely be your defence, that works with other fragile builds too.

If you're in a staring build in a rifleman, you'll probably get cored out more often, yes, but the thing is any open component is available to the enemy because of it's profile, so while you might die to CT more often, XL is still a big vulnerability. I mean, I run an XL jagermech, so I'm not saying XL on this style of mech is unplayable, just an extra vulnerability that has to be managed.

[Requiemking]

FupDup, on 30 April 2019 - 10:12 AM, said:

Dragon has one viable variant/build, the dakka one.

The Dragon also used to have a strong Large Laser build with one of it's variants, but that got nerfed a month later.

[FupDup]

Requiemking, on 30 April 2019 - 05:21 PM, said:

The Dragon also used to have a strong Large Laser build with one of it's variants, but that got nerfed a month later.

Hence why I didn't list it.