153 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

50 50, on 07 May 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

Counter attack as a second half of siege might have been interesting.
They kind of tried this by running it as a second separate drop but it didn't link in anyway to the first part. Bit like what is happening with the story campaign idea at the moment. There was (is) no attachment to our efforts at a personal level.
Where as, if you had the one siege map and as an attacker took the base, if you then had to use those same mechs to hold the base against a final wave of reinforcements, like if the attacker and defender roles and drop locations got swapped around, that would have made more sense.

id love to see something where multiple teams drop on a persistent map. if you completed your invasion match with half of the team's mechs in tact, you could continue defence/attack on the next team. this might provide a means for low skilled teams to play against high skilled ones without getting the short end of the stick (full pug team vs a half diminished pro team). pros might get extra rewards for defeating 2 teams, and if the pugs win they get a win.

persistent battles, that's the thing this game should have. do it royal rumble style with a new lance dropping every time there is room. of course objective would need to be reversible so you could lose ground. it would be kind of like assault from ut. you have a sequence of objectives you need to complete to win the match, except it could go both ways and you could take back objectives you previously lost. all this should happen on megamaps (take the biggest map in this game and quadruple it) with dynamic drop zones, many objectives would be retaking a drop zone near where the next objective is, and you might have multiple options where capping any one of a number of bases counts as a complete objective. the final objective, for either side needs to be significantly harder than the others and results in the end of a story node. battles could span days.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 May 2019 - 07:01 PM.

[General Solo]

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 07 May 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

The important point i that STOMPS are BAD for this game, for every game.

Faction Warfare STOMPS are caused by SKILLGAP due to lack of good matchmaking and low population doesn't help.
And you know why the population is low, SKILLGAP.

Fixing skill gap is beyond player control. That's PGI's problem. If skill Gap makes unhappy customers PGI's profits drop.

But they should of thought about it earlier while the population was still good

Hopefully if MWO 2.0 they make it a priority much higher than other balances as you cannot balance sheet with an unbalanced skill gap at play.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 08 May 2019 - 09:10 PM.

[General Solo]

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 08 May 2019 - 01:00 PM, said:

Well please, tell me one sport when if you are losing the match, the other team can tie or inmobilize you in some way to not let you enter in the game area and star to play...

I never have seen a match of soccer, baseball, Football or any popular team sport where you penalize the other team having less players for being stomped...


What yo have here is the equivalence
to a exploit to not let the substitutes play to reemplace another player...


If NONE of the main sports has a Dynamic like that could not be because is
a)Unfair
b)Makes the game boring to play and boring to watch... ?????

Yes and it is up to the sports governing body, not the players, in our case PGI to make it as you say.
Your talking to the customers when the only ones who can actually make a change are the ones who administer the game.
PGI

[Fuerchtenichts]

Cerberus Las Plagas, on 06 May 2019 - 06:13 PM, said:

It has been my experience as well as others, which has turned a lot of us off from doing faction play, is that a lot of factions tend to get their jollies off by spawn killing everyone which makes it extremely unsatisfying and unfair for the others participating.

You get killed in your drop zone, because you don't leave it!

Reasons for that are:

• Your team plays not aggressive enough
  
• Your team is not focussing
  
• Yout team mates are engaging one by one without prior regrouping and you are permanently outnumbered and killed although your opponents mechs are massively damaged
  
• You have one or more guys in your team who are trying to maximize their damage and don't share armor
  
• Your team mates try to deal damage from a secure distance but only trade poor DPS
  
• Your team mates are not willing or able to support your drop zone

If none of the topics above have lead to your situation, then we have "spawn camping" problem,

[R0gal D0rn]

Feral Clown, on 08 May 2019 - 04:41 PM, said:

Tell me which of the 'main' sports have a dynamic that matches beginners against top players? Oh that's right, none. Another example of nonsense this time in the form of a silly and inapplicable analogy.

Ironically though you attack Ash who has spent time trying to help teach and train players, who has been a key figure in driving change to CW and including particapating/organising matches on the latest PTS which seeks to help alleviate the problems of mismatched games. He has literally been a champion of the cause to make the faction play experience better for you.

What exactly have you done to give back to the community again? Oh that's right, whine, cry and attack. Thanks for your input.....

TSK TSK

Where I said that dont have any tier system in faction seems me correct?

Please, read.

I can go further... i know, let´s say... ··"Willing to be sports" Where members of the losing team are eliminate during the match. The attempts of team MIxed martial arts in Russia. ¿Why are they renouncing to that dynamic? Obviously because this is very dangerous for the last fighters (Being beaten by 4 in the floor is not very safe), but as the public said, this was making the match only enjoyable the first minute, and wasting the experience and skill of the last fighters in the underdog team...

The rules of the russian MMA entiltles the fighters winning to immobilze the last oponent and smash him like a sandsack--

Take the picture.

Of course, there are fighters who don´t like to fight, but punish sadisticly their oponents...
Of course, there are people who likes executions more than fight sports...

But it´s no surprise that the most part of the MMA and other contact SPORTS fans don´t enjoy this...


Can you find some analogy?


Before to continue, stop your reductio ad absurdum.
Yes, the snowball efect in a normal match is a acceptable inconvenience of a match in wich you can´t Heal or respawn...
The origin of the very popular "Respawn or heal" dynamics in other games is, precisely, avoid the snowbal effect in the possible.

What i´m talking about is this aggravation of the snowball effect called "Spawncamp".
The lack of sportmanship of certain players, and the negative to even concede that there are people making of this a try of humiliation experience, is more than ervident.
Excusatio non petita acussatio manifesta XD


And all the failed personal attacks here are just the expresion of two things, I fear. The inmaturity of some players, and the childish adoration to a streamer, who certainly isn´t a infalible god, i´m sure even Ash agrees with me in this last point...

As I said I am too old and I have really nothing to lose to get angry with some fanboys...
This is my aportation to the game: SAY SOME POINTS OF WIEW that the over agressive fan boys will answer with screams, insults, ad hominems, reductio ad absurdum after another... Everything but clear, palpable facts and good arguments.
I never said something bad about the streamers and their work, that seems me admirable in many points (Not so in another points, but i´m an adult, not a fanboy)

The more you need those bad tricks, the more are you leading everybody to think where are your arguments, if you have one, beyond "I can do it because I can" or " I can do it because this One does it"


And well, you can be a warrior, even in this poorer form, the forums warrior, or be part of a mob...
I´m sure that this game and this forum has warriors, but mobs are trendy those days... I see it...



Ah, edit to try to center the claims...
The point is not to avoid totally the rewards for better playing, better coordination, of couse, no one is saying this...
The point is making a little bit more difficult (Specially in some maps) forms of spawncamp who makes impossible even to start to move your mech. Let´s call it avoid total indefension.

Edited by Tirant Lo Blanc, 09 May 2019 - 01:30 AM.

[vonJerg]

Pardon me, is this a game about sport or war in 31st century?

HINT: the name of the game is mechWARrior_online

[R0gal D0rn]

vonJerg, on 09 May 2019 - 01:22 AM, said:

Pardon me, is this a game about sport or war in 31st century?

HINT: the name of the game is mechWARrior_online

VOn Jerg.. Your question only can be made by someone who does not read the entire post... It will be very nice from yur part to read the posts before to repeat arguments... Thanks for your comprension...

Can you sexually abuse the prissioners in this game?
But in a real war you can... XDXDXD

It´s in the name "Game": Sets of rules. RULES.
In a real war your mech can be destroyed or you be killed in the first minute. The end of the war for you.
So you don´t want a realistic game, no one wants it, if he has some idea of the consequences...


Buti f you like reality in games...Tell me, please...

In a "Real scenario" will a Drop ship try to reinforce without a secure zone, a fortriori in a lost battle...?

Wich general will not retreat their troops from a stomp to fight tomorrow...?
Maybe, using the lore and some sense of humour, some Steiner *****.
But a game sophisticated enough to implementate by defect the main strategies of every house or clan, could be cool, but you will agree with me, this would require RULES and compensations...

Games are about that: Rules, and Sports are, esentially, games...

But even using the realism as goal, spawncam is unrealistic...
Orbital bombardment of the landing zones, occupied by enemy forces, before send dropships seems more "War" tasty for you ...???

Edited by Tirant Lo Blanc, 09 May 2019 - 01:54 AM.

[Feral Clown]

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 09 May 2019 - 01:03 AM, said:

TSK TSK

Where I said that dont have any tier system in faction seems me correct?

Please, read.

I can go further... i know, let´s say... ··"Willing to be sports" Where members of the losing team are eliminate during the match. The attempts of team MIxed martial arts in Russia. ¿Why are they renouncing to that dynamic? Obviously because this is very dangerous for the last fighters (Being beaten by 4 in the floor is not very safe), but as the public said, this was making the match only enjoyable the first minute, and wasting the experience and skill of the last fighters in the underdog team...

The rules of the russian MMA entiltles the fighters winning to immobilze the last oponent and smash him like a sandsack--

Take the picture.

Of course, there are fighters who don´t like to fight, but punish sadisticly their oponents...
Of course, there are people who likes executions more than fight sports...

But it´s no surprise that the most part of the MMA and other contact SPORTS fans don´t enjoy this...


Can you find some analogy?


Before to continue, stop your reductio ad absurdum.
Yes, the snowball efect in a normal match is a acceptable inconvenience of a match in wich you can´t Heal or respawn...
The origin of the very popular "Respawn or heal" dynamics in other games is, precisely, avoid the snowbal effect in the possible.

What i´m talking about is this aggravation of the snowball effect called "Spawncamp".
The lack of sportmanship of certain players, and the negative to even concede that there are people making of this a try of humiliation experience, is more than ervident.
Excusatio non petita acussatio manifesta XD


And all the failed personal attacks here are just the expresion of two things, I fear. The inmaturity of some players, and the childish adoration to a streamer, who certainly isn´t a infalible god, i´m sure even Ash agrees with me in this last point...

As I said I am too old and I have really nothing to lose to get angry with some fanboys...
This is my aportation to the game: SAY SOME POINTS OF WIEW that the over agressive fan boys will answer with screams, insults, ad hominems, reductio ad absurdum after another... Everything but clear, palpable facts and good arguments.
I never said something bad about the streamers and their work, that seems me admirable in many points (Not so in another points, but i´m an adult, not a fanboy)

The more you need those bad tricks, the more are you leading everybody to think where are your arguments, if you have one, beyond "I can do it because I can" or " I can do it because this One does it"


And well, you can be a warrior, even in this poorer form, the forums warrior, or be part of a mob...
I´m sure that this game and this forum has warriors, but mobs are trendy those days... I see it...



Ah, edit to try to center the claims...
The point is not to avoid totally the rewards for better playing, better coordination, of couse, no one is saying this...
The point is making a little bit more difficult (Specially in some maps) forms of spawncamp who makes impossible even to start to move your mech. Let´s call it avoid total indefension.

More incoherent nonsense...again thanks for your input.

[R0gal D0rn]

Feral Clown, on 09 May 2019 - 02:03 AM, said:

More incoherent nonsense...again thanks for your input.

Not my fault if you are unable to find the sense...
Can be an idiomatic thing, or maybe a lack of desire to understand, or... Well the other options don´t let you in a very good place...

Thanks for your opinion...I´m sure you took more time elaborating your arguments than me....XDXD

[Fuerchtenichts]

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 09 May 2019 - 01:44 AM, said:

Buti f you like reality in games...Tell me, please...

In a "Real scenario" will a Drop ship try to reinforce without a secure zone, a fortriori in a lost battle...?

Wich general will not retreat their troops from a stomp to fight tomorrow...?
Maybe, using the lore and some sense of humour, some Steiner *****.
But a game sophisticated enough to implementate by defect the main strategies of every house or clan, could be cool, but you will agree with me, this would require RULES and compensations...

Games are about that: Rules, and Sports are, esentially, games...

But even using the realism as goal, spawncam is unrealistic...
Orbital bombardment of the landing zones, occupied by enemy forces, before send dropships seems more "War" tasty for you ...???

Just for curiosity, why don't you just ask your drop commander to switch the pilots to another lance and therefore to another drop point?

[General Solo]

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 09 May 2019 - 01:44 AM, said:

VOn Jerg.. Your question only can be made by someone who does not read the entire post... It will be very nice from yur part to read the posts before to repeat arguments... Thanks for your comprension...

Can you sexually abuse the prissioners in this game?
But in a real war you can... XDXDXD

It´s in the name "Game": Sets of rules. RULES.
In a real war your mech can be destroyed or you be killed in the first minute. The end of the war for you.
So you don´t want a realistic game, no one wants it, if he has some idea of the consequences...


Buti f you like reality in games...Tell me, please...

In a "Real scenario" will a Drop ship try to reinforce without a secure zone, a fortriori in a lost battle...?

Wich general will not retreat their troops from a stomp to fight tomorrow...?
Maybe, using the lore and some sense of humour, some Steiner *****.
But a game sophisticated enough to implementate by defect the main strategies of every house or clan, could be cool, but you will agree with me, this would require RULES and compensations...

Games are about that: Rules, and Sports are, esentially, games...

But even using the realism as goal, spawncam is unrealistic...
Orbital bombardment of the landing zones, occupied by enemy forces, before send dropships seems more "War" tasty for you ...???

I agree on many points but but still feel that you feel that players some how need to make up PGI's failure to take skill gap into account.

In some ways I feel its a business decision on PGI's part, bussiness is bussiness and PGI's core interest is MWO no longer.

It is what it is and blaming other players is I think the wrong course of action (not saying by you but in general) when many of the these thing are determined by the games and PGI's scope.
Mech Arena shoota. Which players have no (real) control over.

PGi makes the game and we BetaTest it/break it so they can make a better game

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 09 May 2019 - 02:51 AM.

[vonJerg]

Bare in mind the limits of the game engine and resources available to improve the game. In other words, what we have is what we have.

So instead of wasting time and energy like a Don Quixote, take a look on it this way:

Once the snowball effect starts it is pure sign that battle has been won/lost, and just as in real battles, once the enemy front line has been broken the victor chases down enemy forces while they are in complete disarray. Mobile units punch thru the front line and attack enemy supply lines and troops in gathering areas deep in enemy rear. Best ways to prevent this is by holding the line more firmly, and/or making sure there is bigger gap between your front line and your gathering areas (drop zones), and also by countering enemy move by intercepting their advance.
And if you think that enemy should go for objective and not go for 48 kills, well, salvage is only available from the equipment that stayed on the battle field, those that survived managed to flee with their mechs.

[General Solo]

PGI just got smashed by the games success especially in the early day
They just were not expecting that and were so unprepared and inexperienced, playing a game of constant catch up. Maybe they were expecting Bass Fishing 2.0 or sum thing.
IMO.......Gotta say they didn't give up and made effort enough for me to hang around.

Anyone else still around

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 09 May 2019 - 03:27 AM.

[R0gal D0rn]

Fuerchtenichts, on 09 May 2019 - 02:30 AM, said:

Just for curiosity, why don't you just ask your drop commander to switch the pilots to another lance and therefore to another drop point?

Good question, but if you pay attention to the context of the claims, this issue is not so strong in organized drops...We all agree in this point.
Mainly because they can better optimize mechs, builds, and normally use external coms like discord or teamspeak.
And yes, switch lances...
I used to play faction in team with my unit, almost extint today in active players...
But now I play mostly surrounded by pugs...
i can estimate 85% ot the games NO one took the drop command.
two weeks ago I tried to explain this trick to a self proclamed drop command, who was unable to understand me because he was in combat in a similar situation...
Try to play in some hour fringes, and the most part of the guys will be russians, ·"Dabei, tovarisch"

Yes it can help a little bit in some situations... But there could be better solutions...

vonJerg, on 09 May 2019 - 02:43 AM, said:

Bare in mind the limits of the game engine and resources available to improve the game. In other words, what we have is what we have.

So instead of wasting time and energy like a Don Quixote, take a look on it this way:

Once the snowball effect starts it is pure sign that battle has been won/lost, and just as in real battles, once the enemy front line has been broken the victor chases down enemy forces while they are in complete disarray. Mobile units punch thru the front line and attack enemy supply lines and troops in gathering areas deep in enemy rear. Best ways to prevent this is by holding the line more firmly, and/or making sure there is bigger gap between your front line and your gathering areas (drop zones), and also by countering enemy move by intercepting their advance.
And if you think that enemy should go for objective and not go for 48 kills, well, salvage is only available from the equipment that stayed on the battle field, those that survived managed to flee with their mechs.

Thanks, but i think we all know that a balanced match avoids spawncamping. It´s like saying... ·You can always play to not let the enemy players use an exploit or a glitch... It´s obvious, and it´s obvious that the exploit or the glitch continues if you do that... Eliminate the bad game dynamic is the better response... It is not doable...? I dont think so.

Why will I not use my efforts to make other players, and maybe PGi (I have no faith in this) valorate if some game dynamic is ameliorable...? Why are the forums intended for? Mobbing the disidents? XDXD
What have I to gain. Nothing: the hate of those who like put other players in situations of indefension by some reason...
Well, they dont like me, and for a reason... No one likes Jiminy crickets... XDXDXD

Let go to the essence. The game need players, and this game dynamic is not preserving players into faction matches...

You can defend this issue and maintain it to the loss of the critical mass of players in the servers, or can contribue to make the game more newbie fiendly, and still farming them more time, but not in a humiliating way...
Capito?
Playing don Quijote is maybe more fun than spawncamp other payers, and maybe, I find it more constructive...



Ahhh, edit to response to the funny spiderman memes above... I have the antispidey definitive tool...
Snap fingers...

Edited by Tirant Lo Blanc, 09 May 2019 - 04:31 AM.

[theUgly]

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 09 May 2019 - 03:27 AM, said:

Good question, but if you pay attention to the context of the claims, this issue is not so strong in organized drops...We all agree in this point.
Mainly because they can better optimize mechs, builds, and normally use external coms like discord or teamspeak.
And yes, switch lances...
I used to play faction in team with my unit, almost extint today in active players...
But now I play mostly surrounded by pugs...
i can estimate 85% ot the games NO one took the drop command.
two weeks ago I tried to explain this trick to a self proclamed drop command, who was unable to understand me because he was in combat in a similar situation...
Try to play in some hour fringes, and the most part of the guys will be russians, ·"Dabei, tovarisch"

Yes it can help a little bit in some situations... But there could be better solutions...


Thanks, but i think we all know that a balanced match avoids spawncamping. It´s like saying... ·You can always play to not let the enemy players use an exploit or a glitch... It´s obvious, and it´s obvious that the exploit or the glitch continues if you do that... Eliminate the bad game dynamic is the better response... It is not doable...? I dont think so.

Why will I not use my efforts to make other players, and maybe PGi (I have no faith in this) that some game dynamic is ameliorable...?
What have I to gain. Nothing: the hate of those who like put other players in situations of indefension by some reason...
Well, they dont like me, and for a reason... No one likes Jiminy crickets... XDXDXD

Let go to the essence. The game need players, and this game dynamic is not preserving players into faction matches...

You can defend this issue and maintain it to the loss of the critical mass of players in the servers, or can contribue to make the game more newbie fiendly, and still farming them more time, but not in a humiliating way...
Capito?
Playing don Quijote is maybe more fun than spawncamp other payers, and maybe, I find it more constructive...



Ahhh, edit to response to the funny spiderman memes above... I have the antispidey definitive tool...
Snap fingers...

The whole point of all of your posts is,
it is not polite to farm players in their drop zone cause it is not fun for them?

Be simple with me will you

[Willard Phule]

Fuerchtenichts, on 09 May 2019 - 02:30 AM, said:

Just for curiosity, why don't you just ask your drop commander to switch the pilots to another lance and therefore to another drop point?

Drop Commander? What's that? We rarely if ever have anyone on comms in pug matches.

[General Solo]

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 09 May 2019 - 03:27 AM, said:

Good question, but if you pay attention to the context of the claims, this issue is not so strong in organized drops...We all agree in this point.

IMO manly because skill gap

\sO BACK TO MATCH MAKER PRIORITY NUMBER 1 IN A pVP

coz i AINT TYPIN THAT TWICE, DOUBLE HANDLING, INEFFIECENT LIKE SOME WEAPONS

due to caps locks...doh and skill gap





Is less of an issue in organised drops

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 09 May 2019 - 04:19 AM.

[R0gal D0rn]

OZHomerOZ, on 09 May 2019 - 04:15 AM, said:

IMO manly because skill gap

\sO BACK TO MATCH MAKER PRIORITY NUMBER 1 IN A pVP

coz i AINT TYPIN THAT TWICE, DOUBLE HANDLING, INEFFIECENT LIKE SOME WEAPONS

due to caps locks...doh and skill gap





Is less of an issue in organised drops

Ok... can we estimate the organized drops in 1 for 9 non organized?
So then, for 9 players of 10, this IS an ISSUE... Specially the new ones, who result to be the most necessary, maybe, to keep the game alive... it seems to me an ISSUE for people enough to take it with some care in some way.... Dont you think?
And the actitude of the "Skilled" in the forums when someone brings this problem to light is...Sepultate him in personal attacks and mockery... (Very helpful, indeed)


Let me reformulate in another terms: if the skill gap reveals a bad dynamic, and the skill gap is greater every day, how to deny that the bad dynamic is going more visible every day ???

Edited by Tirant Lo Blanc, 09 May 2019 - 04:30 AM.

[General Solo]

theUgly, on 09 May 2019 - 03:42 AM, said:

The whole point of all of your posts is,
it is not polite to farm players in their drop zone cause it is not fun for them?

Be simple with me will you

Its not polite but the fact such skill gap exists at all, is not the fault of the players but the developer
Imagine its Formula One, do they blame the driver, the team or manufacturer

All are fair game for those without the full facts

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 09 May 2019 - 04:33 AM.

[R0gal D0rn]

theUgly, on 09 May 2019 - 03:42 AM, said:

The whole point of all of your posts is,
it is not polite to farm players in their drop zone cause it is not fun for them?

Be simple with me will you

Well, in a over simplistic reduction, is something like this... But only if you reduce the arguments against it to
"I enjoy being a bully moronic azzjole and if a poor design lets me do it, dont even try to confront me with it"

then, and only in this case, it´s correct...

Edit to repeat again and again that i´m open to arguments, to real arguments, and more than disposed to argue and stay civile. But Irony claims for Irony...
Make me change my mind, because If someone brings an argument good enough to make me understand the virtues of spawncamping, I have no problem in change my opinion---

Edited by Tirant Lo Blanc, 09 May 2019 - 04:45 AM.