153 replies to this topic

[General Solo]

Seems to me if people get spawn camped they were out of their depth
Edit: And dats on PGI nad their neglect of matchmaker

I spend two year looking at that wheell

Get guid rekt thingts for a least half the investment in Quick play lol
Just Joking
FW dead any way they killed it. But thats just me being a teacher
So I stopped being a teacher, but I miss it,


If FWtarts dont get they killed their own game mode, so wot

Probably for they best

Rampage another game mode where seal fight back

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 09 May 2019 - 08:51 AM.

[R0gal D0rn]

theUgly, on 09 May 2019 - 08:08 AM, said:

I am not trying understand anything.
What i am telling you is that spawncamping is
your punishment for been on the far inferior team.

Have a good one man.

You are not trying to understand... True, true, thanks for the sincerity...

"is your punishment for been in the inferior team"

No! Seriously??? i will never have discovered it without your help---

And tell me---
is not the defeat " punishment" enough?
Is this punishment encouraging me to help another players?
is this "punishment " making people more or less elitist when doing teams?
Is nothing to say about make this so called punishment more productive for both, winners and losers?
It´s the best way you can think to make the game better and more enjoyable for all the players...?

Oh, no need to be answered inmediately... Take the time you need...

And thanks for not triying to insult me, this is sadly something to thank in this forums....

Edited by Tirant Lo Blanc, 09 May 2019 - 11:35 AM.

[R0gal D0rn]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 09 May 2019 - 08:17 AM, said:

Same thread as always, same answers as always, same resistance to those answers as always (I.e...people don’t want to adjust what they are doing to avoid it). This thread is the forum embodiment of deja vu

Man, I know what to do to avoid it in the possible...
But Im saying that the game dynamics, too, could make something more to avoid it, and this could help a little bit to more people wanting lo learn to do the rest to avoid it almost completly... But with people trying to hide the main issue, and trying to frighten those who try to center the problem in it´s essence, it´s difficult to go further...

Two days ago i had to laugh a lot, because an entire team of campers had to wait 15 minutes searching a stealth raven in forest map... Very angry and asking "Why do you play with our time"
I had to wrote...

"By the same reason you was spawncamping two entire drops of our team, because HE CAN"

Or was I the Raven´s pilot???
I cant remember...XDXDXD

Edited by Tirant Lo Blanc, 09 May 2019 - 08:48 AM.

[NewStuff]

I find the repeated requests for a mercy rule to be amusing. I thought spawn camping was the mercy rule - it saves bad teams from having to engage a walking simulator. Just DOA.

[R0gal D0rn]

NewStuff, on 09 May 2019 - 09:40 AM, said:

I find the repeated requests for a mercy rule to be amusing. I thought spawn camping was the mercy rule - it saves bad teams from having to engage a walking simulator. Just DOA.

No one is demanding a mercy rule, read the thread.
Avoiding the spawncamp is any "mercy"
If you think that not abusing of the situations that produce unfair indefension is a "Mercy" maybe we dont use this world in the same sense...

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 09 May 2019 - 08:44 AM, said:

Man, I know what to do to avoid it in the possible...
But Im saying that the game dynamics, too, could make something more to avoid it, and this could help a little bit to more people wanting lo learn to do the rest to avoid it almost completly... But with people trying to hide the main issue, and trying to frighten those who try to center the problem in it´s essence, it´s difficult to go further...

Two days ago i had to laugh a lot, because an entire team of campers had to wait 15 minutes searching a stealth raven in forest map... Very angry and asking "Why do you play with our time"
I had to wrote...

"By the same reason you was spawncamping two entire drops of our team, because HE CAN"

Or was I the Raven´s pilot???
I cant remember...XDXDXD

Except that camping does quickly end a match that is already decided. People can move on and play another match. What the Raven did is extending a match that is already totally decided. So, not nearly the same....and I expect 90%+ of the FW regulars would agree.
Man, if that was you in the Raven...I can only say that you really know how to make friends in this game. Geez.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Gilgamecc, on 08 May 2019 - 04:11 PM, said:

dude it's a game where we role play (to varying degrees) mechwarriors who engage in combat for glory and a living.

why do you think a decisive victory is poor sportsmanship or whatever the hell you're accusing the better player base of?

Who said anything about a decisive victory being poor sportsmanship - oh, it was you?!

The post is referring to the aspect of spawn camping, especially of the newer less experienced players. People offer solutions, mine included the inclusion of a reward for being the better side without the need to humiliate the opposition, or is that what you mean sportsmanship is?

Try for something constructive for a change rather than trying to defend your own actions; speak for those people trying to learn a new mode that is far different from QP; try to engage the possible next wave of CW players not alienate them.

Howver, if self aggrandization is your thing, go for it and watch the numbers continue to drop until it is the same teams dropping time and time again with ultimately predictable results (look at any kind of major league sport and this is all you see - same teams, same finals . . . )

[Mochyn Pupur]

R79TCom1 Night Lanner, on 08 May 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

If a player doesn't want to join a group or unit, just wants to solo PUG in a game mode that specifically say don't do that then it is their fault. This is being said by someone who for a long time was not an official member of a unit, but did group up with other players in other units as I got to know them. If you go into hard mode with no experience, don't complain if it's too hard. Suck it up buttercup and find someone to help you get better. If you don't want to or can't then make the best of it the best you can, but don't expect to be coddled. Yeah, getting rolled and spawn camped sucks, but there are ways to prevent it. Work with your team and figure it out. A simple, "He guys, I'm tied of getting rolled tonight. Is anyone up for calling or mind if I do?" in team chat before the mission begins is a good start.

And I said nothing about it being my right to club seals, mostly because I am a seal. I think at best 50/50 on all stats people tend to care about. But working off your metaphor, I have just as much right to enjoy my limited gaming time as the person on the other end of the club. I am playing the game as designed. A few suggestions have been made that might help the issues with spawn camping, smart DropShip pilots, carpet bombing LZ before drops, holding players in queue until 4 'Mechs are ready to name a few. Certainly not teleporting 'Mechs and forced elections; there is nothing in the BattleTech universe that warrants that kind of stupidity. But until that happens, I'm going to do what needs to be done to succeed in the mission and hopefully capture a planet for my faction.

My research is that I've played multiple sports in my lifetime, and watched far more. I have been on the side of massive losses and never has the ref called it early...not since I was a little kids playing little league baseball. I did as you said and looked a little further and, yep kiddie sports and some college rules (although they have to be agreed upon by both coaches) have mercy rules. Not in major league play of the sport.

Not sure where or what you researched; however, the idea of mercy rules were formulated in college divisions and it is the referee's decision to call an end to the game. The college approach moved on and although not noted in the major leagues (mainly because of other options such as substitutes and recently where a coach believed that play was unfair instructed their team to allow a walk in score, the concept and application is common across the sports I named previously, you have simply decided to ignore these matches to try and prove you are right in your self centred approach in belief as what you want and how others need to be debased to meet your wants.

As I said, it is a game that can develop but players have to consider their own actions in supporting any kind of longevity of the mode and game a whole. Try thinking and come up with something positive other than "git gud" or "don't play CW", that is by far the harder thing to do.

Go back far enough and you will see Paul asked for ideas on how to improve things, ASH threw many good ideas into the melting pot as did many other long time players. Other than looking at the MM which may or may not do any good as it just looks at wait times and numbers, the basic issue of balanced experienced drops has been ignored by PGI, so the only solution available has to come from the player base at this time.

[R0gal D0rn]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 09 May 2019 - 10:21 AM, said:

Except that camping does quickly end a match that is already decided. People can move on and play another match. What the Raven did is extending a match that is already totally decided. So, not nearly the same....and I expect 90%+ of the FW regulars would agree.
Man, if that was you in the Raven...I can only say that you really know how to make friends in this game. Geez.

And once again...

The game could be not so decided if the last players are, oh surprise, the more skilled (Why not?) and they start to play having the time and oportunity to regroup and play a better tactic... Or simply, because casually or not, all the last players are beyond the average in medium and light mechs.

Yes, sometimes it´s decided but sometimes is the spawncamp who decides the win... And this is depriving the underfog to the posibilites to come back. This is rare but not unheard, and the most importan gives new intrest to a match.
And again, losing or winning isn´t all, learning, and enjoying even the defeat, with the taste to have done all the possible is not a silly thing... It can be decisive, i repeat, to preserve players...

What is more important in your values scale, spare some time in the match, or having matches to play after MW5?


Its curious, but the only spectacular comebacks I have seen In faction was in maps where the access to the spawn points is not too easy: Vitric, sulphureous rift... casual? I dont think so...


I will not reveal If the raven pilot was me...
He killed 3 enemy players before the end of the match, so technically he did not stop the fight, just used the allowed tactics... Stealth armor, positioning in dark environnements, rip backs.

If you ask what is my usual behaviour when i´m the last player with no chance to win, I charge and try to take some enemy to valhala with me XD...

But In that case, the spawncampers was not taking in account the feelings of my team when spawncamping... Why the raven pilot should have done something different with theirs...??? In my opinion, 15 minutes fighting the rests of our team could have been more entertaining than search the usual last raven, spider, shadowcat, cheetah they spawncamped "Because they can" ,and the raven did the possible to stay alive all the match because "He can". Maybe not all that you "can do" is good for the game..... But if you don´t are a little bit "nice" as a player, well, don´t complain if someone dont respect your time....XDXDXD

Edited by Tirant Lo Blanc, 09 May 2019 - 12:45 PM.

[K O Z A K]

I had no idea you could continue with the thread topic after spiderman shows up. I call HAX! Where are the mods and what are they doing

[R0gal D0rn]

Hazeclaw, on 09 May 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

I had no idea you could continue with the thread topic after spiderman shows up. I call HAX! Where are the mods and what are they doing

that´s why

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 09 May 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

And once again...

The game could be not so decided if the last players are, oh surprise, the more skilled (Why not?) and they start to play having the time and oportunity to regroup and play a better tactic... Or simply, because casually or not, all the last players are beyond the average in medium and light mechs.

Yes, sometimes it´s decided but sometimes is the spawncamp who decides the win... And this is depriving the underfog to the posibilites to come back. This is rare but not unheard, and the most importan gives new intrest to a match.
And again, losing or winning isn´t all, learning, and enjoying even the defeat, with the taste to have done all the possible is not a silly thing... It can be decisive, i repeat, to preserve players...

What is more important in your valours scale, spare time in the match, or having matches to play after MW5?


Its curious, but the only spectacular comebacks I have seen In faction was in maps where the access to the spawn points is not too easy: Vitric, sulphureous rift... casual? I dont think so...


I will not reveal If the raven pilot was me...
He killed 3 enemy players before the end of the match, so technically he did not stop the fight, just used the allowed tactics... Stealth armor, positioning in dark environnements, rip backs.

If you ask what is my usual behaviour when i´m the last player with no chance to win, I charge and try to take some enemy to valhala with me XD...

But In that case, the spawncampers was not taking in account the feelings of my team when spawncamping... Why the raven pilot should have done something different with theirs...??? In my opinion, 15 minutes fighting the rests of our team could have been more entertaining than search the usual last raven, spider, shadowcat, cheetah they spawncamped "Because they can" ,and the raven did the possible to stay alive all the match because "He can". Maybe not all that you "can do" is good for the game..... But if you don´t are a little bit "nice" as a player, well, don´t complain if someone dont respect your time....XDXDXD

I do get the hurt feelings argument..I.e....”it hurts the game, because inexperienced/less talented players getting shot out of the sky might not come back” argument. We all want more players in the mode, but they have to be willing to see the beauty of this mode...and not everyone can or does. It’s ok for someone to quit and go back to QP if they can’t adjust to how this mode needs to be played. I have been on both sides of this...when I was new to FW it happened to me plenty. I just adjusted to the reality that this mode isn’t as soft as QP is. You can and will be punished in this mode for staying in a mech too long, not being aggressive enough, not grouping up, etc. Maybe what PGI is working on for a matchmaker helps.. but I know adjusting to the mode rather than expecting that the mode will adjust to you 100% helps.
I don’t know if I have seen any “spectacular” comebacks in the hundreds of FW matches I have played in. Comebacks happen when one team (who isn’t as far ahead as they might think) gets sloppy after getting ahead and the other team tightens up their play and takes advantage. Nothing spectacular about that. The idea that spawncamping takes away actual spectacular comebacks (not just the theory that they could happen) is a bit laughable for anyone who has played this mode a lot.
I don’t need to tell me if you ran that Raven or not...I think we can make a good guess on that one.

[Natural Predator]

I made this handily chart for you
1. I use properly kitted out mechs and learn from good players how to skill my mechs by being a cooperative player
2. I use lurms and ask for locks, don't share armor, or bring terrible builds and don't consult anyone on how to build a mech, therefore I lose the right to *****.

1. I joined a group to play a group mode game and increase my odds of winning
2. I didn't join a group and therefore can no longer ***** about getting camped in a team mode game

1. I play both sides so I can learn the weaknesses and strengths of both sides mechs so I know how to handle each situation that presents itself
2. I lore nerd out and never learn how the other side plays and thus learn how to counter play, I again lose the right to *****.

Any questions see master pug trainer Justcallmeash but above all quit your bitching.

[R0gal D0rn]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 09 May 2019 - 12:53 PM, said:

I do get the hurt feelings argument..I.e....”it hurts the game, because inexperienced/less talented players getting shot out of the sky might not come back” argument. We all want more players in the mode, but they have to be willing to see the beauty of this mode...and not everyone can or does. It’s ok for someone to quit and go back to QP if they can’t adjust to how this mode needs to be played. I have been on both sides of this...when I was new to FW it happened to me plenty. I just adjusted to the reality that this mode isn’t as soft as QP is. You can and will be punished in this mode for staying in a mech too long, not being aggressive enough, not grouping up, etc. Maybe what PGI is working on for a matchmaker helps.. but I know adjusting to the mode rather than expecting that the mode will adjust to you 100% helps.
I don’t know if I have seen any “spectacular” comebacks in the hundreds of FW matches I have played in. Comebacks happen when one team (who isn’t as far ahead as they might think) gets sloppy after getting ahead and the other team tightens up their play and takes advantage. Nothing spectacular about that. The idea that spawncamping takes away actual spectacular comebacks (not just the theory that they could happen) is a bit laughable for anyone who has played this mode a lot.
I don’t need to tell me if you ran that Raven or not...I think we can make a good guess on that one.

So please, no one has been able to show me the "Beauty" in indefension... I have asked not less of ten times where is the beauty, where is the need, in what is this making the game better...

But no one answers.
Can be strange if we start to think that those arguments towards the spawncamping does not exist???
What i´m I missing? What is so good in kill people before they can start even to move his mech...
What will they learn thar the very fact of the defeat itself cant teach them?

Seriously... I have played hundred if not thousends of matches too, and I see nothing, not a single aspect in which the game will lose interest or content if you make teh spawncamp impossible...

Well, yes, inflating stats and egoes will be more difficult...

So the so called experts don´t have more arguments beyond the insults and the personal attacks...
Can it be?
Can adult people take seriously that those stats are something real or a reflection of true skill (Of course in some cases this stats reflect skill, but in others... pffff)
And if this is not the cause.... Where are the benefits for the players in jump upon you with flamers when you are descending to the ground, block you for their mates ripping your back, or raining lrm 20 on you?
Is that simple?, the response is "I value more a number at the side of my name than the fairness of the game, ofr his future"?

I find it hard to believe.
But I only have insults and never entering in the essence of my question....

SO.....

And if you have not seen come backs in faction, it can be dued to various causes, by example...
1) Maybe you see it in the normal game because---Suroprise... There is no spawncamp there...
2) You have not palyed that great number of matches you belive... I have seen some comebacks.

[R0gal D0rn]

Ragnar Baron Leiningen, on 09 May 2019 - 01:09 PM, said:

I made this handily chart for you
1. I use properly kitted out mechs and learn from good players how to skill my mechs by being a cooperative player
2. I use lurms and ask for locks, don't share armor, or bring terrible builds and don't consult anyone on how to build a mech, therefore I lose the right to *****.

1. I joined a group to play a group mode game and increase my odds of winning
2. I didn't join a group and therefore can no longer ***** about getting camped in a team mode game

1. I play both sides so I can learn the weaknesses and strengths of both sides mechs so I know how to handle each situation that presents itself
2. I lore nerd out and never learn how the other side plays and thus learn how to counter play, I again lose the right to *****.

Any questions see master pug trainer Justcallmeash but above all quit your bitching.

Thanks, and teach me to brush my tooth too...
Mate, quit your habit to dont read the threads. Is not the case, but other players could find your attitude insulting...

Another ASh fanboy around wlling to do merits?? I was expecting more pupils messing around XDXD

Edited by Tirant Lo Blanc, 09 May 2019 - 01:40 PM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 09 May 2019 - 01:30 PM, said:

So please, no one has been able to show me the "Beauty" in indefension... I have asked not less of ten times where is the beauty, where is the need, in what is this making the game better...

But no one answers.
Can be strange if we start to think that those arguments towards the spawncamping does not exist???
What i´m I missing? What is so good in kill people before they can start even to move his mech...
What will they learn thar the very fact of the defeat itself cant teach them?

Seriously... I have played hundred if not thousends of matches too, and I see nothing, not a single aspect in which the game will lose interest or content if you make teh spawncamp impossible...

Well, yes, inflating stats and egoes will be more difficult...

So the so called experts don´t have more arguments beyond the insults and the personal attacks...
Can it be?
Can adult people take seriously that those stats are something real or a reflection of true skill (Of course in some cases this stats reflect skill, but in others... pffff)
And if this is not the cause.... Where are the benefits for the players in jump upon you with flamers when you are descending to the ground, block you for their mates ripping your back, or raining lrm 20 on you?
Is that simple?, the response is "I value more a number at the side of my name than the fairness of the game, ofr his future"?

I find it hard to believe.
But I only have insults and never entering in the essence of my question....

SO.....

And if you have not seen come backs in faction, it can be dued to various causes, by example...
1) Maybe you see it in the normal game because---Suroprise... There is no spawncamp there...
2) You have not palyed that great number of matches you belive... I have seen some comebacks.

Plenty of people here have answered as to why this happens and why it even needs to happen as the game stands now. I mean c’mon, people aren’t going to feel happier if they get nuked the moment they leave the drop zone walls either.....assuming they leave at all if DZ camping were eliminated. We have had threads on this whole idea of “what could be done” for years here. Haven’t seen a better system than we have proposed, in that so many “cures” proposed have consequences that are worse than the “disease” they are trying to cure.

If you can’t see why things are what they are....where so many others can you might want to be a little more introspective and open to seeing why things happen....not just that they happen. I have been in many PUG drops and even when things go way south for the pug teams I am on I rarely get farmed....why? Because I know what I need to do to produce and not get farmed in such a match. If you don’t....that’s because you lack insight into what happened and why it happened to you. So, I don’t know what to tell you expect to talk with players that can produce and not get farmed even when the talent scales are tipped against them. But then again, a lot of people commenting on this thread are already telling you that and you don’t seem particularly open to the actual truth of the matter.
I would be careful talking about stats....folks here will look up yours (I have) vs. some of the guys you are arguing with (many who are my betters skill-wise). This is not going to make people think you know this game well. I am not shaming you with this. You are just presuming to teach, where you should really be looking to learn.....that is as much or more Ego as the “worst” DZ killer displays....

[Bowelhacker]

Nathan White, on 09 May 2019 - 06:27 AM, said:

Being a good player it is always try to learn something new, improve self stats. You have played ~15k mathes, and you dont have progress, only regress. Season 0 - 63%, Season 33 - 37%. It means, you dont know how play this game, but you try teach others, how its should be.

That's probably more on the crappy tier system than anything else. His skill plateau might just be tier three yet he kept on moving up.

[Rustyhammer]

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 09 May 2019 - 01:30 PM, said:

Can be strange if we start to think that those arguments towards the spawncamping does not exist???
What i´m I missing? What is so good in kill people before they can start even to move his mech...

It was mentioned many times, let me do it again for you:

- For the winning team, spawn camping is the fastest way to end the boring match without loss of cbills/xp.
- For the losing team, spawn camping is the good reason to revisit their builds/gameplay and think on how to avoid it next time.

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 09 May 2019 - 01:30 PM, said:

So please, no one has been able to show me the "Beauty" in indefension... I have asked not less of ten times where is the beauty, where is the need, in what is this making the game better..

Spawn camping is the result of you and your team gameplay.
- If you smart, you will try to get gud and/or find a group of non-potatoes to avoid being spawn camped.
- If you don't care, you stick to QP.
- If you dumb, you come to the forum and whine about 'unfairness', 'bully' and similar things.

Posts on this forum clearly separate players into these 3 groups. When seeing familiar forum warrior names in my match I already know what to expect from them and can adjust my paly accordingly, even if I see them for the first time in game. Knowing who will be NPC before the match starts makes the game better for me and many other FP regulars

[Bowelhacker]

Rustyhammer, on 09 May 2019 - 04:16 PM, said:

Posts on this forum clearly separate players into these 3 groups. When seeing familiar forum warrior names in my match I already know what to expect from them and can adjust my paly accordingly, even if I see them for the first time in game. Knowing who will be NPC before the match starts makes the game better for me and many other FP regulars

Which one am I? Rate me! Rate me!!

[Omniseed]

theUgly, on 09 May 2019 - 03:42 AM, said:

The whole point of all of your posts is,
it is not polite to farm players in their drop zone cause it is not fun for them?

Be simple with me will you

He is being as simple as always, what more can you ask