367 replies to this topic

[J a y]

giggitygiggitygoo, on 22 May 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

...the simple fix to all of this (just drop all the extra junk and simply run more events in FW to get the population up, that's all we were asking for in the first place)

Ding ding ding

Solaris was POPPIN when there was an event going on. A dozen guys waiting for a game, each weight class at the peak. Even FW is hype when there is an optional event.

Edited by J a y, 22 May 2019 - 06:58 PM.

[Bowelhacker]

Interestingly not only are the changes kind of ******, the game actually hangs when you try to cancel yourself out of a queue. Well, several times out of several plus a few times I've done it anyway.

Time to go cancel my MW5 order.

[VileKnight]

Everyone in RPTG is pissed, and insulted. We are Jade Falcon. We are not Wolves. We are not mercs. We are certainly not IS.

PGI, I have no idea how on earth this got past the planning phase, but next time you have a discussion with your stakeholders they need to be shown the outcry from the community. This was a colossal blunder, and I hope you can correct course quickly.

One suggestion. It might help A LOT to do a community survey like other companies (Trip Wire comes to mind.) do on occasion. This change to FP gives the perception that you aren't listening to your customers. Maybe you are, but something has to be done to change that perception. It feels like you just gave a giant middle finger to loyalist units.

[ShyX]

The only way I can think to comment on these changes is to demonstrate the way I'm feeling inside through a hastily constructed piece of... "artwork".

I call it: Involuntary Apostasy

Edited by ShyX, 22 May 2019 - 07:42 PM.

[- Gryphon -]

Good day!
Is it really impossible to make a simultaneous capture of 2-3 planets? ...With the same capture timelines? It is probably worth reducing the time frame of one phase from 24 hours to 2-3 hours.
Many people want different great houses to fight on different planets.
So that everyone can play in the mode that they want. When on one planet there is still a scout mode ... And on the other planet there is already a war of 12 vs 12.
I believe that in FP something needs to be changed. It would be worth returning the opportunity for players to enter into various great houses that they want, as well as the opportunity to change the side (faction) for the "balance" of the parties. I told the opinion of many players in 2-3 sentences. Correct me and add here below in this chat.

Edited by - Gryphon -, 22 May 2019 - 08:12 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

J a y, on 22 May 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:

A pts ain't gonna fix jack. The matchmaker isn't the issue, the severe limitations on who can and can't play is the issue.

So we have two extremely distinct issues here. You are either muddling on purpose or just don't undertsand... The Loyalist & LIVE Bugs. The keyword in PTS is TEST. So far we have a number of bugs emerging that were not able to be tested as they were not ready.

Known - BUGS (so far).

• Drop Deck Tonnage - IS 255t to lock, not 265T
  
• Merc points not accuring.
  
• Merc cbill bonus appears to not be applying.
  
• Loyalist Points/Probation - potential bug here I noticed last night. Will confirm later.
  
• Unit MC Coffers inaccessible.

These are just the bugs that have emerged in the first 24hrs. From a raw functionality perspective these things needed be tested. There might be more bugs to boot! Now - thinking logically - if this patch gets pulled as suggested, then there is every reason to run a PTS to see/test the bugs once addreses and also dig out new ones from the functionality that will obviously be changed further.

J a y, on 22 May 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:

Spoiler

PGI needs to revert the changes and reach out to players who actually touch FW. Maclearly, Mischief, Neirsolon, Grus, Jaybles, Saint Dane, Xannatar, Ghostreaver, Coyote, Marquis, Stool. ****, literally anybody who actually plays FW at primetime would be fine.

Getting advice from QP or comp heroes or "stakeholders" won't do anything but further destroy the active FW population.

In any case, PGI, if you hit my line or any players in actual FW units, I'm sure we could work this **** out overnight.

What's your point here? I've played, conservatively, 5,000 games in Faction Play. ~4,000 from when the leaderboards started tracking seasons and then some 12 months of full-time FP before that. And yeah I also play QP, Competitive, Solaris & Admin for MWO Comp - all at the highest level in the game. Further to that I'm one of the more popular MWO Streamers on twitch... I've played with high skill units/players and I've played with low skill ones. Hell I even offer training for anyone that wants it and have trained a number of units in Faction Play... So to be blunt - I couldn't think of many better people to speak about FP issues.

I ain't a one-trick-pony of PvE objective rushing like certain Kurita loyalist units.

Now the loyalist discussion side of it. I wholeheartdly agree, this patch mde it even worse. Although you didn't put any suggestion forward - just had a whine/crack at me. I've brought up the Loyalist issue numerous times over the years. ONE / TWO examples where I've brought up issues - there are plenty more. Paul even noted a lot of it down HERE.

The last time players in "actual" FP units were consulted, the last 2 round tables, honestly they did more harm than good at the time as some were simply concerned about themselves and not the overall health of the mode. The community doesn't need that again, ever.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 22 May 2019 - 08:53 PM.

[Hierarch]

pretty sure switching your drop deck in the match is bugged. Also listening to that count down over and over and over again is maddening..

Edited by Hierarch, 22 May 2019 - 08:46 PM.

[J a y]

justcallme A S H, on 22 May 2019 - 08:37 PM, said:

What's your point here? I've played, conservatively, 5,000 games in Faction Play. ~4,000 from when the leaderboards started tracking seasons and then some 12 months of full-time FP before that. And yeah I also play QP, Competitive, Solaris & Admin for MWO Comp - all at the highest level in the game. Further to that I'm one of the more popular MWO Streamers on twitch... I've played with high skill units/players and I've played with low skill ones. Hell I even offer training for anyone that wants it and have trained a number of units in Faction Play... So to be blunt - I couldn't think of many better people to speak about FP issues.

...

The last time players in "actual" FP units were consulted, the last 2 round tables, honestly they did more harm than good at the time as some were simply concerned about themselves and not the overall health of the mode. The community doesn't need that again, ever.

The amount of time that you play against all 15 pilots active at 5 AM EST doesn't do much for me. I've last seen you at primtime when you were with 54MR and quit prematurely multiple times while we were up on kills and took your objectives because you decided that setting up gunlines at the edge of the battlefield/your spawn was a better tactic.


In any case, at no point was there a call for a "round table." The players who actually play FW during primetime have one solid request, and I believe that it was mentioned two or three posts up above.

Giggity suggested that we "just drop all the extra junk and simply run more events in FW to get the population up."

That's it. Just like how it works with Solaris, it will drag people in for shiny MC or Cbill bonuses, and everything will be all happy and giddy again.

[Ghastly]

justcallme A S H, on 22 May 2019 - 08:37 PM, said:

LIVE Bugs. The keyword in PTS is TEST. So far we have a number of bugs emerging that were not tested.

Once the changes are live, like they currently, a further PTS is a waste of time because these changes are already being tested by the entire community and only serves to delay the necessary fixes.

Quote

although you didn't put any suggestion forward - just had a whine.

A number of people did, a few times.

Quote

The last time players in "actual" FP units were consulted, the last 2 round tables, honestly they did more harm than good at the time as some were simply concerned about themselves and not the overall health of the mode. The community doesn't need that again, ever.

And how does telling, at any given point, most of the active FW community that they just are not allowed to play "healthy" for the game? And are you going to give specifics and citations about what "harm" was done when the active FW community was consulted, or are you going to keep making big, sweeping statements and point fingers at the people who actually play this mode.

Edited by Ghastly, 22 May 2019 - 08:57 PM.

[DefiantAviator]

I'm conflicted... Personally, I agree with Jay. At the same time though, **** ISMO.

[TheCanadianDJ]

justcallme A S H, on 22 May 2019 - 08:37 PM, said:

So we have two extremely distinct issues here. You are either muddling on purpose or just don't undertsand... The Loyalist & LIVE Bugs. The keyword in PTS is TEST. So far we have a number of bugs emerging that were not able to be tested as they were not ready.

Known - BUGS (so far).

• Drop Deck Tonnage - IS 255t to lock, not 265T
  
• Merc points not accuring.
  
• Merc cbill bonus appears to not be applying.
  
• Loyalist Points/Probation - potential bug here I noticed last night. Will confirm later.
  
• Unit MC Coffers inaccessible.

These are just the bugs that have emerged in the first 24hrs. From a raw functionality perspective these things needed be tested. There might be more bugs to boot! Now - thinking logically - if this patch gets pulled as suggested, then there is every reason to run a PTS to see/test the bugs once addreses and also dig out new ones from the functionality that will obviously be changed further.







What's your point here? I've played, conservatively, 5,000 games in Faction Play. ~4,000 from when the leaderboards started tracking seasons and then some 12 months of full-time FP before that. And yeah I also play QP, Competitive, Solaris & Admin for MWO Comp - all at the highest level in the game. Further to that I'm one of the more popular MWO Streamers on twitch... I've played with high skill units/players and I've played with low skill ones. Hell I even offer training for anyone that wants it and have trained a number of units in Faction Play... So to be blunt - I couldn't think of many better people to speak about FP issues.

I ain't a one-trick-pony of PvE objective rushing like certain Kurita loyalist units.

Now the loyalist discussion side of it. I wholeheartdly agree, this patch mde it even worse. Although you didn't put any suggestion forward - just had a whine/crack at me. I've brought up the Loyalist issue numerous times over the years. ONE / TWO examples where I've brought up issues - there are plenty more. Paul even noted a lot of it down HERE.

The last time players in "actual" FP units were consulted, the last 2 round tables, honestly they did more harm than good at the time as some were simply concerned about themselves and not the overall health of the mode. The community doesn't need that again, ever.

Who cares? Seriously.

[MischiefSC]

Nobody is going to have all the answers, not sure it's ever been about who you talk to specifically.

However the concept of loyalists to factions is a significant part of the value of having the Battletech IP. People who just want to play stompy shooty robbits are not going to care and that's fine too -

However making loyalists happy is pretty much the lowest hanging fruit. These are people who will put up with a LOT so they can feel engaged with their chosen faction. They've stuck through Long Tom, they've shown up for years in "lore builds" and got farmed and they dealt with the swings of balance which sent comp and hardcore players off to other games over the years.

There's no magic bullet. Different people want different things. If a perfect FW patch came out tomorrow I have absolute faith in my community to find something new to ***** about next week. People will find some balance issue and blow it out of proportion.

That isn't this though. Faction loyalty is a critical issue and goes directly at what connects a moderate to large segment of the population to the game.

I don't know how else to put this. It's a 40 year old IP with a strong focus on factions. It needs treated like a sports IP in that regard and player faction identity like sports fan team identity. Sure there's people who play Madden and do the care about teams and play whatever gives them the options they like best - however there's a big segment of people who get I to the game because of their attachment to a particular team. If you eliminate their connection to their faction/team you eliminate their connection to the game.

[Samuli Salonen]

J a y, on 22 May 2019 - 08:50 PM, said:

The amount of time that you play against all 15 pilots active at 5 AM EST doesn't do much for me. I've last seen you at primtime when you were with 54MR and quit prematurely multiple times while we were up on kills and took your objectives because you decided that setting up gunlines at the edge of the battlefield/your spawn was a better tactic.


In any case, at no point was there a call for a "round table." The players who actually play FW during primetime have one solid request, and I believe that it was mentioned two or three posts up above.

Giggity suggested that we "just drop all the extra junk and simply run more events in FW to get the population up."

That's it. Just like how it works with Solaris, it will drag people in for shiny MC or Cbill bonuses, and everything will be all happy and giddy again.

Agreed, my unit was just discussing this. More rewards means more players. At some point, as the pop builds it could take on a life of its own and sustain without major reward influxes.

DefiantAviator, on 22 May 2019 - 08:59 PM, said:

I'm conflicted... Personally, I agree with Jay. At the same time though, **** ISMO.

Does ****stand for "join" ISMO?

[Bowelhacker]

justcallme A S H, on 22 May 2019 - 08:37 PM, said:

I ain't a one-trick-pony of PvE objective rushing like certain Kurita loyalist units.

Now the loyalist discussion side of it. I wholeheartdly agree, this patch mde it even worse. Although you didn't put any suggestion forward - just had a whine/crack at me. I've brought up the Loyalist issue numerous times over the years. ONE / TWO examples where I've brought up issues - there are plenty more. Paul even noted a lot of it down HERE.

There's some comedy value in having a sly dig at "certain Kurita loyalist units" then muttering about someone having a crack at you...

[justcallme A S H]

J a y, on 22 May 2019 - 08:50 PM, said:

In any case, at no point was there a call for a "round table."

Where did I say someone called for a round table? I I said the last time key players from key units were consulted like you are suggesting.. It didn't quite work out that well for the community as I outlined.

Of course no offense intended to those units - who 'lived and breathed' FP - but it was just a wasted opportunity to get things improved because of how they went about it. We actually ended up with the tug-of-war bar as a result and that stopped planet captures/exchanges (along with Merc-hopping) for some 18 months.

Again all of this stuff is pretty common knowledge you seem to be totaly ignoring or unaware of because you weren't playing back then.

Ghastly, on 22 May 2019 - 08:56 PM, said:

Once the changes are live, like they currently, a further PTS is a waste of time because these changes are already being tested by the entire community and only serves to delay the necessary fixes.

How does telling, at any given point, most of the active FW community that they just are not allowed to play "healthy" for the game? And are you going to give specifics and citations about what "harm" was done when the active FW community was consulted, or are you going to keep making big, sweeping statements and point fingers at the people who actually play this mode.

How do you know the fixes will work and they are actually resolved and so not create more issues? PGI have many times caused MORE issues attempting fixes. So why not do it right? As I said - back the patch out. Why leave something in there that is broken and wait 1-2 months for it to be fixed? That is how long it's going to take. If you think it's going to be fixed in the next week... Well... That's.... Hmm... Extremely unrealistic.

And thus saying we should leave everything and just "wait" for the neccessay fixes to be deployed will hurt the population far, far more. To ignore this point, just for the sake of disagreeing with me, is rather dumb.

[TheCanadianDJ]

justcallme A S H, on 22 May 2019 - 09:07 PM, said:

And thus saying we should leave everything and just "wait" for the neccessay fixes to be deployed will hurt the population far, far more. To ignore this point, just for the sake of disagreeing with me, is rather dumb.

I wish to disagree with you to perpetuate the drama. It's quite entertaining. You're spending a lot of time crafting your responses but in the end what's it for? Why are we still here? Just to suffer?

[denAirwalkerrr]

J a y, on 22 May 2019 - 08:50 PM, said:

Maclearly, Mischief, Neirsolon, Grus, Jaybles, Saint Dane, Xannatar, Ghostreaver, Coyote, Marquis, Stool. ****, literally anybody who actually plays FW at primetime would be fine.

The amount of time that you play against all 15 pilots active at 5 AM EST doesn't do much for me. I've last seen you at primtime when you were with 54MR and quit prematurely multiple times while we were up on kills and took your objectives because you decided that setting up gunlines at the edge of the battlefield/your spawn was a better tactic.

Imagine playing FP for 3 years (dropping only about 2-3 months ago) including NA primetime and never seeing any of this names aside from Xan, Dane and Grus. And when I asked friends who still play about who these guys are they told me fairly simple “ aside from Mac, Jay and Neir - gen rushers”. Clearly we need to listen to them because they have about same effect on FP as PGI aka making people not wanna play it.

[J a y]

denAirwalkerrr, on 22 May 2019 - 09:12 PM, said:

Imagine playing FP for 3 years (dropping only about 2-3 months ago) including NA primetime and never seeing any of this names aside from Xan, Dane and Grus. And when I asked friends who still play about who these guys are they told me fairly simple “ aside from Mac, Jay and Neir - gen rushers”. Clearly we need to listen to them because they have about same effect on FP as PGI aka making people not wanna play it.

People with lesser skilled teams might have to do "less favorable" things to win, otherwise the team who has the more skilled pilots will simply get the W every game. I don't have an issue with GNX bringing in 511915 tier 5 pilots that'll throw 12 assassins at me because I'd rather get gen rushed than not play at all.

[TheCanadianDJ]

denAirwalkerrr, on 22 May 2019 - 09:12 PM, said:

Imagine playing FP for 3 years (dropping only about 2-3 months ago) including NA primetime and never seeing any of this names aside from Xan, Dane and Grus. And when I asked friends who still play about who these guys are they told me fairly simple “ aside from Mac, Jay and Neir - gen rushers”. Clearly we need to listen to them because they have about same effect on FP as PGI aka making people not wanna play it.

Wait.... Unless my math is wrong I only count 6 names. So only 6 people play faction now? Or 7 if I include you?

[Ghastly]

justcallme A S H, on 22 May 2019 - 09:07 PM, said:

Where did I say someone called for a round table? I I said the last time key players from key units were consulted like you are suggesting.. It didn't quite work out that well for the community as I outlined.

justcallme A S H said:

the last 2 round tables

You also didn't outline anything, you just whined that FW players said things that caused bad changes.

Quote

How do you know the fixes will work and they are actually resolved and so not create more issues?

Because PGI can test specific fixes on their own internal non-public systems like they have done in the past.

Quote

If you think it's going to be fixed in the next week... Well... That's.... Hmm... Extremely unrealistic.

And is this in your expert opinion as a guy who streams a game? Because I'm speaking as someone who actually works in the field of software engineering.

You also didn't answer my question regarding the loyalist changes. How does telling most of the active FW community that they just aren't allowed to play healthy for the game?

Edited by Ghastly, 22 May 2019 - 09:19 PM.