119 replies to this topic

[Valdarion Silarius]

FLG 01, on 23 May 2019 - 05:00 PM, said:

I really don't meet them often. I wish I could test the abilities of that Mech but I am just not confronted with many of them, it I am confronted with them at all.

On paper it seems like they should be the ultimate glass cannon, and I still think they might be. But the few player I met were highly incompetent, sorry to say. That is not a fault of the Mech; I am sure competent players can use it to some effect.

I think a pretty big chunk of the player base skipped the Rifleman IIC because of all of the factors working against it rather than for it in MW:O. Many people might have said a hard pass on it due the limited engine cap, the look of the mech, etc.

On paper, the mech has 11 tons of ferro-fibrous armor which is really good armor for it's weight class. So it's not really supposed to be a glass cannon but more of a pocket assault with the armor, damage values, and slow speed to match that description. I think it didn't translate well over to MW:O because TT jump jets really helped the mech with mobility and gave it a really well needed speed boost. Another example was MW:2. The mech wasn't locked with the 235 engine cap restrictions, but even in stock you could boost it's standard 54 kmph running speed up to a ridiculous 192 kmph with omni-directional jump jets for a considerable duration to help complement its slow speeds.

Jackal Noble, on 23 May 2019 - 05:15 PM, said:

666.275 dmg average over 40 qp matches. I don’t love, but I don’t hate it. I don’t really mess with any of the lower engines vars but they can bring true assault level firepower. The CT issue can probably be addressed with the dish adjustment if that’s the current case.
It’s got some nice pep which is a nice change from the more traditional sluggishness of Clan mechs.
I’d advocate for a CT adjustment and some arm armor. Too much love and this thing would be very dangerous in the right hands.

That's all that the mech really needs in order to be viable from what I experienced. Just a CT fix and perhaps some armor quirks since most of it's guns sit there. I might even vow for some side torso and CT armor quirks if the hitbox fixes don't do it justice, but you are right. PGI will have to exercise caution when fixing these issues. It might be best to roll out the CT hitbox fixes first then determine what parts of the mech need the armor structural quirks the most after a little more time.

The RFL-IIC 3 is probably my least fielded variant so I think you are onto something with your statement there. I'd like to see the mech get the proper fixes that it needs, and challenge meta mechs like the Hellbringer and Ebon Jaguar, but not completely blow everything out of proportion by being overpowered. It's pretty close to that point imho.

RickySpanish, on 23 May 2019 - 05:51 PM, said:

It definitely demands a thought out playstyle. I have had wildly varying results mostly dependent on whether or not I made the correct choice at the beginning of the round in terms of positioning. My best rounds had 4 kills and damage in the 700 range, my worst rounds were utterly pathetic - 180 damage was my lowest. Ouch. With skills unlocked the capabilities improve tremendously, so perhaps we will see some more well played Riflemen in the future. That dish is a liability which is likely purposeful, but it needs a slight adjustment because as Ash said, LRMs are bruuutal and in general twisting to avoid CT death is difficult. However, this is definitely in a better state than the Marauder 2!

Consider yourself lucky if your lowest damaging matches were at 180. My crappiest matches went as low as 90 overall match score, thanks largely due to potato-rotato nascar team mates, some really overconfident light mech pilots, and some other issues that just kill this mech in QP. I don't consider myself a bad player by any means, but when I state the engine cap limitations really hurt the mech in QP, it really does. You just don't have the speeds to keep up with nascar with the limited engine cap variations and it really starts to show in your overall score performance, when positioning and the terrain for hill peaking is your only reliable armor.

My best games with the IIC (S) was just above 700 match score while my best score to date was with the IIC-A at around 840 with several kills for both mechs. I have both mechs skilled out maxed on the skill tree, and I'm trying out another variation with quad ER-PPCs on my other Rifleman IIC which is quickly growing on me. I'm starting to believe that quad ER-PPC's > quad cLPL's for the Prime variant since cLPL's require more face time and exposure, while ER-PPC's complement less face time with enemies and still can be grouped in twos for less damage but better synergy with max cool run on the skill tree.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 23 May 2019 - 07:47 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Kiiyor, on 23 May 2019 - 07:13 PM, said:

It seems highly dependent on reading what your team is doing. If you're bogged down, it's great, as you get to peek and ponder how you're going to apply your damage. If your team is committed to nascar, you're in trouble. You don't have the mobility and firepower to make anywhere near as much of an impact, and you're too squishy to remain near the tail of the field to punish those trying to chase you up.

Situational so far. I'll persist, as I enjoy a good WUB.

This pretty much sums it up in a nutshell. I'm still going to play all of the variants and I absolutely love the mech for what it does. I just hope that PGI fixes these issues with the mech to the point where it can be viable in the 65 ton bracket with all of the other heavy meta mech contenders. There many things that PGI got right with this mech and I hope it doesn't go to the wayside.

[TheBossOfYou]

Rifleman IIC with a maxed XL engine and maxed armor has 40 tons for other equipment(modified by endo/ferro). I don't see any problems with how much armor/structure it has, as it already outguns IS assaults while on the low end of the heavy weight class.

[RickySpanish]

Unlocked the firepower nodes now, I went balls deep into that tree to get everything possible related to wubbing. An alpha now brings my heat to about 50%, in all I can alpha two and a half times before needing to cool off. She's a beast when treated right that's for sure, I may just ignore defensive skills entirely in favour of putting my remaining points into mobility after aux/operations is sorted. This may also be a 'Mech that really benefits from consumables, I might unlock all 5 slots. Certainly double UAV would help with situational awareness.

[Valdarion Silarius]

TheBossOfYou, on 23 May 2019 - 08:39 PM, said:

Rifleman IIC with a maxed XL engine and maxed armor has 40 tons for other equipment(modified by endo/ferro). I don't see any problems with how much armor/structure it has, as it already outguns IS assaults while on the low end of the heavy weight class.

The problem isn't the current armor or structure that it has. The problem is the fact that it doesn't feel like it has any armor when you are getting shot at due to the hitbox issues. That is why PGI should rework the CT to see how it performs afterwards, then perhaps give it armor quirks on the arms since most of it's armament sit there if needed.

RickySpanish, on 23 May 2019 - 09:34 PM, said:

Unlocked the firepower nodes now, I went balls deep into that tree to get everything possible related to wubbing. An alpha now brings my heat to about 50%, in all I can alpha two and a half times before needing to cool off. She's a beast when treated right that's for sure, I may just ignore defensive skills entirely in favour of putting my remaining points into mobility after aux/operations is sorted. This may also be a 'Mech that really benefits from consumables, I might unlock all 5 slots. Certainly double UAV would help with situational awareness.

I'd recommend throwing in as much as you can in survival until PGI sorts out the hitbox issues. We may find out later depending what PGI does, that so many points may not be necessary depending if they give the mech armor quirks and such.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 24 May 2019 - 08:52 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Arnold The Governator, on 24 May 2019 - 08:52 AM, said:

I'd recommend throwing in as much as you can in survival until PGI sorts out the hitbox issues. We may find out later depending what PGI does, that so many points may not be necessary depending if they give the mech armor quirks and such.

Maybe, but those quirks are multiplicative so I don't know how much better the 'Mech will be with a 10% armour buff, since its issues are down to the shape of the CT. You're still going to die quickly under sustained fire I think. Meanwhile I would not advocate going all the way to speed tweak, but the 'Mech is reasonably agile so I feel that improving torso movement range and speed, and acceleration/deceleration synergises well with firepower - you will be quicker popping into and out of cover and aim faster with points in agility. Anyway, 49 points in firepower felt mandatory, the difference is huge especially thanks to the existing range quirk.

[Valdarion Silarius]

RickySpanish, on 24 May 2019 - 09:27 AM, said:

Maybe, but those quirks are multiplicative so I don't know how much better the 'Mech will be with a 10% armour buff, since its issues are down to the shape of the CT. You're still going to die quickly under sustained fire I think. Meanwhile I would not advocate going all the way to speed tweak, but the 'Mech is reasonably agile so I feel that improving torso movement range and speed, and acceleration/deceleration synergises well with firepower - you will be quicker popping into and out of cover and aim faster with points in agility. Anyway, 49 points in firepower felt mandatory, the difference is huge especially thanks to the existing range quirk.

Yeah I agree. I did notice that I didn't get crit as much compared to my other Rifleman IIC's that were lacking the skill tree nodes, where when I did have good teams and even if my armor was stripped I still managed to live. I guess it's subjective and up to personal preference, but personally I try to stick with the team with mobility and survival nearly maxed out to make a difference in case I get targeted. From my experience Rifleman IIC's do get targeted quite a bit in quick plays. My firepower is also heavily invested, but I'm starting to wonder if radar deprivation would be also a good trait to have the more I think about it.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 24 May 2019 - 11:45 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Arnold The Governator, on 24 May 2019 - 11:42 AM, said:

Yeah I agree. I did notice that I didn't get crit as much compared to my other Rifleman IIC's that were lacking the skill tree nodes, where when I did have good teams and even if my armor was stripped I still managed to live. I guess it's subjective and up to personal preference, but personally I try to stick with the team with mobility and survival nearly maxed out to make a difference in case I get targeted. From my experience Rifleman IIC's do get targeted quite a bit in quick plays. My firepower is also heavily invested, but I'm starting to wonder if radar deprivation would be also a good trait to have the more I think about it.

Would certainly help against the death sentence that is LRMs in that thing.

[FupDup]

You might want to consider stripping a little bit of ST armor if the CT is really as vulnerable as the screenshot posted earlier suggests (I haven't played this patch yet). I remember doing this when the HBR was first released in a similar circumstance (walking CT).

[Valdarion Silarius]

FupDup, on 24 May 2019 - 01:41 PM, said:

You might want to consider stripping a little bit of ST armor if the CT is really as vulnerable as the screenshot posted earlier suggests (I haven't played this patch yet). I remember doing this when the HBR was first released in a similar circumstance (walking CT).

I'm not exactly sure how stripping side torso armor would benefit the Rifleman IIC, since it's at already max armor for most of my builds (with little exceptions of a few builds shaving off some leg armor). How does this help the issue of the mech dying from CT hits?

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 24 May 2019 - 02:48 PM.

[FupDup]

Arnold The Governator, on 24 May 2019 - 02:47 PM, said:

I'm not exactly sure how stripping side torso armor would benefit the Rifleman IIC, since it's at already max armor for most of my builds (with little exceptions of a few builds shaving off some leg armor). How does this help the issue of the mech dying from CT hits?

If the ST armor is not being utilized, then the tonnage is wasted. Also it might trick your opponent into going for a damaged ST instead of the CT.

[RickySpanish]

FupDup, on 24 May 2019 - 02:54 PM, said:

If the ST armor is not being utilized, then the tonnage is wasted. Also it might trick your opponent into going for a damaged ST instead of the CT.

Yeah but they would miss and hit the CT anyway.

[Valdarion Silarius]

RickySpanish, on 24 May 2019 - 05:09 PM, said:

Yeah but they would miss and hit the CT anyway.

Agreed. I think the CT hitboxes are too enlarged where it hardly affects the side torsos anyhow. I hardly ever have my ST's become an issue even after my arms are blown off since they are well protected by the shield arms. Most players that know how to take out the Rifleman IIC will know just to shoot dead center since the CT hitboxes are so large instead of focusing fire on the side torsos. If you try torso twisting most enemies will manage to hit your CT more than your ST's.

[RickySpanish]

Arnold The Governator, on 24 May 2019 - 06:22 PM, said:

Agreed. I think the CT hitboxes are too enlarged where it hardly affects the side torsos anyhow. I hardly ever have my ST's become an issue even after my arms are blown off since they are well protected by the shield arms. Most players that know how to take out the Rifleman IIC will know just to shoot dead center since the CT hitboxes are so large instead of focusing fire on the side torsos. If you try torso twisting most enemies will manage to hit your CT more than your ST's.

Plus if you twist you are definitely losing an arm, so anything other than a wee wiggle is a tactical decision to drop 50% of your offensive capability to maybe survive a bit longer.

I'm now complete on operations as well and have moved on to the consumable tree. Racked up a couple of almost 600 match score games tonight running the same build as on Grimmechs with one heatsink swapped for a second jump jet. This is definitely a good 'Mech, for straight QP fixing it is going to be tough - right now its weakness is close quarters combat, but imagine if it was more survivable, it might easily become OP. At its effective range it's not terrible at spreading damage by wiggling, and 120 points of damage before overheating delivered in 3 short, 700m bursts is exceptional. I love this guy!

Edited by RickySpanish, 24 May 2019 - 07:09 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

I'll be honest bout the mech, it took me some time adapting my usual skirmisher playstyle to more cautious positioning. But when done so it can very rewarding, and much more so if you play the Rifleman a bit knowing be second line rather than frontline.

Despite how rewarding this thing is, it very hard to even be second line as the moment you be targeted for any fire you gonna lose either 50% your firepower or get instagib'd in your CT, and this can't even take small arms fire even if it wants to. The Engine cap not really a huge issue unless you value internal heatsinks alot, then I can understand.

But what this mech need in minimal: All variants but the 2 get 10-15+ CT Armor, 2 gets 8-12+ CT Armor, 10+ Armor on the arms, 2 get 8+ Armor on the arms. Reasoning why the 2 not getting the same amount of quirks it's pretty damn solid enough in the firepower department, I may extended it to the 3 personally.

But really the mech hitbox needs some serious tweaking. I really enjoy the Rifleman and I do find the enjoyment of the IIC son but it needs some help, as I can it being a good viable mech to replace/ or compete the Night Gyr in heavy gunboat role.

[Valdarion Silarius]

RickySpanish, on 24 May 2019 - 07:09 PM, said:

This is definitely a good 'Mech, for straight QP fixing it is going to be tough - right now its weakness is close quarters combat, but imagine if it was more survivable, it might easily become OP. At its effective range it's not terrible at spreading damage by wiggling, and 120 points of damage before overheating delivered in 3 short, 700m bursts is exceptional. I love this guy!

I'm not sure if it was intended to be a slow glass cannon, because I really hope that isn't the case. QP matches vary game by game but the flaws of the mech become very apparent when you are in 1v1 engagements and you are experiencing return fire. The center torso is way too weak at the moment despite the firepower that it can field. There is absolutely no excuse to dying to lights so quickly when you are close to max health with no armor stripped from anything from your mech, then you pop open instantly. Artillery strikes become even more apparently annoying when you are trying to provide support but then your health drops to 80%-75% from one barrage.

It punishes people with no skills equipped due to these issues which will turn off most people who do not have the funds nor the time/patience/money to invest into the skill tree with problems that should have been fixed beforehand. I think all that PGI needs to do to make sure that the mech doesn't powercreep into OP territory is fix the hitboxes, wait a week or two based on results of the fix, then apply any armor or structural quirks like on the arms if that is the next cause of how the mech dies so quickly. I honestly don't believe that the mech will creep into OP territory with all of the factors like low engine cap (with the exceptions of 2 and A) working against it.

[RickySpanish]

Arnold The Governator, on 24 May 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:

I'm not sure if it was intended to be a slow glass cannon, because I really hope that isn't the case. QP matches vary game by game but the flaws of the mech become very apparent when you are in 1v1 engagements and you are experiencing return fire. The center torso is way too weak at the moment despite the firepower that it can field. There is absolutely no excuse to dying to lights so quickly when you are close to max health with no armor stripped from anything from your mech, then you pop open instantly. Artillery strikes become even more apparently annoying when you are trying to provide support but then your health drops to 80%-75% from one barrage.

It punishes people with no skills equipped due to these issues which will turn off most people who do not have the funds nor the time/patience/money to invest into the skill tree with problems that should have been fixed beforehand. I think all that PGI needs to do to make sure that the mech doesn't powercreep into OP territory is fix the hitboxes, wait a week or two based on results of the fix, then apply any armor or structural quirks like on the arms if that is the next cause of how the mech dies so quickly. I honestly don't believe that the mech will creep into OP territory with all of the factors like low engine cap (with the exceptions of 2 and A) working against it.

I plus one with the Assault lance in it, 1v1 is kind of it's big weakness and I'm not sure that should change. So long as you stay with your team and reposition whenever you need to cool off, it does rather nicely. Since it's not taking a slot in Charlie lance being selfish with your armour sharing (or lack thereof) isn't a big deal but the engine cap means that sometimes, you literally can't even keep up with Charlie

[DeathWind001X]

Even after pumping points into survivability the CT still feels really fragile and easy to core out. Especially for FaceTime builds using UAC2s.

[Valdarion Silarius]

DeathWind001X, on 24 May 2019 - 09:09 PM, said:

Even after pumping points into survivability the CT still feels really fragile and easy to core out. Especially for FaceTime builds using UAC2s.

It doesn't seem like there is really any other viable solution until the CT hitboxes are fixed. In the meantime, you can try radar deprivation or other alternatives like mobility until these issues are fixed. I'm really hoping that I can respec the skill tree after these issues are addressed.

RickySpanish, on 24 May 2019 - 09:03 PM, said:

I plus one with the Assault lance in it, 1v1 is kind of it's big weakness and I'm not sure that should change. So long as you stay with your team and reposition whenever you need to cool off, it does rather nicely. Since it's not taking a slot in Charlie lance being selfish with your armour sharing (or lack thereof) isn't a big deal but the engine cap means that sometimes, you literally can't even keep up with Charlie

Again, it's true that positioning and taking cover is key to making the mech last in a match. The acceleration/deceleration certainly helps with peaking. It's the fact that the mech is supposed to have 11 tons of armor (10.5 for the 2) and feels like paper in the armor department. Keep in mind this mech needs all the frontal armor it can spare which doesn't leave much rear armor to help defend against lights. Lights don't even have to face your back to core out your front which is really pathetic no matter how you slice it.

The Rifleman IIC is indeed a support mech by nature that is meant to be played at a range, but it does need some brawling capabilities to compete with meta mechs of it's weight category. The fact that even if the hit boxes were fixed and if the mech did indeed get armor quirks in the arms, it still wont be reigning king over the meta mechs anytime soon since mechs like the Hellbringer will have ECM and tighter hard point groupings over it as an advantage.

I just hope PGI doesn't go backwards with fixing the CT hitboxes, and if they do decide to give it arm armor quirks by screwing something else up in the process. Like I said earlier there are so many things going for the Rifleman IIC with the positive traits, but it's just not at the level of complete balanced satisfaction with the glaring CT issue at hand.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 24 May 2019 - 09:53 PM.

[shaytalis]

If the side torsos never get hit, why not embrace it?