31 replies to this topic

[FRAGTAST1C]

I'm sort of fascinated by the concept of using 4 ERPPCs after having played triple ERPPC Veagle. I guess doing it on the Veagle is possible but it'd be very hot and not practical.

I sort of know what works best for this build i.e., the Warhawk Prime with its heat and velocity quirk for ERPPCs but if I use those omnipods for my Nanuq, I can get something like this....

NANUQ

I bought the Mad Cat Deathstrike as well and I'm running it with dual Guass and 6 ERML but given where the energy hardpoints are and the amount of tonnage and slots available, I thought of trying this...

DEATHSTRIKE

Apart of the 10% extra ERPPC velocity and slightly better heat gen. quirk on the full Warhawk Prime mech, how comparable is this DS, at least on paper? Just looking for thoughts and arguments.

[FupDup]

Using it on the WHK-Prime would give you better velocity. Otherwise in terms of layout that's basically how it should look.

That particular Deathstrike build is outclassed by the WHK in all aspects other than hardpoint height.

[FRAGTAST1C]

FupDup, on 26 May 2019 - 10:37 PM, said:

That particular Deathstrike build is outclassed by the WHK in all aspects other than hardpoint height.

The DS has better survivability though, right? I mean, when you twist your torso, the arms on the Mad Cat wil shield practically all of the vulnerable areas where as the Warhawk will lose its weapons rather quickly. Again, I'm just trying to discuss the possibilities. Please don't take what I'm saying as actual facts.

[FupDup]

FRAGTAST1C, on 26 May 2019 - 10:47 PM, said:

The DS has better survivability though, right? I mean, when you twist your torso, the arms on the Mad Cat wil shield practically all of the vulnerable areas where as the Warhawk will lose its weapons rather quickly. Again, I'm just trying to discuss the possibilities. Please don't take what I'm saying as actual facts.

On the other hand, you have lower HP (quirks), lower agility, and are more likely to be focused down (people know what to expect from MCIIs).

[GweNTLeR]

Warhawk is great in med-long , but its main flaw is low mounts. Furthermore, ppcs are in different hands which results in complicated aiming.
Deathstrike on the other hand does not have such flaws. Meanwhile, you can make a very similar build on MAD-IIC-8
The most agile marauder-IIC. 4ERPPC with high mounts.
A^7E40Z1|l^|1C|l^|l^|<f|l^p61|l^|l^|l^|l^|1Cq61|l^|l^|1C|1C|VCrV0|l^|l^|l^sV0|l^|l^|l^tn0|l^un0|l^v<0|e<2w202020

[FRAGTAST1C]

I've never tried the Marauder IIC. That build looks interesting for sure.

[Alkabides]

One of the awesome variants can boat the heck out of ppc. Almost nonstop firing/ no overheat, can be fun but also shows how under powered ppc is for the weight/heat.

[LT. HARDCASE]

I have run the quad ER PPC Mad Cat II a few times. It works. Plenty of heatsinks.

[Valdarion Silarius]

The Rifleman IIC Prime does quad ER PPC's rather well, but until the CT issue is fixed I'd listen to other people's suggestions in the meantime. It might be worth revisiting once the issues are fixed in about a month or so.

[Y E O N N E]

Arnold The Governator, on 27 May 2019 - 10:27 AM, said:

The Rifleman IIC Prime does quad ER PPC's rather well, but until the CT issue is fixed I'd listen to other people's suggestions in the meantime. It might be worth revisiting once the issues are fixed in about a month or so.

You'll be waiting longer than that. MAD II has the same problem, still not fixed a month later. Nightstars has had hit box issues for over a year now, still no help in sight.

Edited by Y E O N N E, 27 May 2019 - 10:32 AM.

[FupDup]

Y E O N N E, on 27 May 2019 - 10:32 AM, said:

You'll be waiting longer than that. MAD II has the same problem, still not fixed a month later. Nightstars has had hit box issues for over a year now, still no help in sight.

B-b-b-but muh precious aggregate data says it's a-ok.

[Valdarion Silarius]

FupDup, on 27 May 2019 - 10:43 AM, said:

B-b-b-but muh precious aggregate data says it's a-ok.

Ugh, Ubisoft used this same kind of excuse with For Honor until their playerbase dipped drastically. My only guess is because there are all hands on deck with MW5, but still there isn't any excuse when they see that their data reporting a gorillion CT related deaths.

[FupDup]

Arnold The Governator, on 27 May 2019 - 10:49 AM, said:

Ugh, Ubisoft used this same kind of excuse with For Honor until their playerbase dipped drastically. My only guess is because there are all hands on deck with MW5, but still there isn't any excuse when they see that their data reporting a gorillion CT related deaths.

Our balancing overlords have been using the "we look at the aggregate data" line for a few years. My inner cynical conspiracy theorist suspects that they just don't care that much unless something is absolutely gamebreakingly OP like the KDK-3's release (note that they don't mind gamebreakingly under-powered).

[ZaRyume Mukeiyu]

I tried the Quad PPCs on the MAD-IIC a few times. It's okay, but I went back to other builds on it instead. With the MC-IIs, I find the 2 variants with all four energy hardpoints in the arms to be easier to work with. With the -1 and the DS, having 4 ERPPCs in the torsos does let you use the arms as shields, but then you are stuck with sluggish torso aiming. As for the -4 or -A, you risk getting stripped like the -B, but at least the lower arm actuators help you make quick snapshots.

MCII-4
For this build, I included 2 jumpjets for a bit of flexibility.

There are 2 more Mechs that can use quad ERPPCs:

WHM-IIC
WHM-IIC "Slower but Cooler"
This is the second lightest Clan Mech, behind the Rifleman-IIC-A, that can reliably maintain its DPS with quad PPCs; majority of the Clan Heavy OmniMechs do not have enough tonnage or slots to fit more than 3 PPCs AND have enough DHS to cool all that excess heat off (also, Nova Cat is not worth using). It has a +20% Velocity Quirk just like the WHK-Prime, though it's not as responsive as said Mech. The WHM-IIC works best with having most of the Nodes in the Mobility Tree selected so it doesn't feel like driving a Semi.

SNV-C
I would not recommend this Mech for most people, but it does show up quite a bit in Faction Play whenever long range maps are involved. The only good thing about it is that both the cockpit and the quad PPCs are high-mounted so it can easily play peek-a-boo over hills. It's still sluggish, so I focused on all the Kinetic Burst and Hard Brake Nodes in the Mobility Tree to further optimize its play style.

Out of all of these Mechs, experience-wise, I had the most success with the MC-II-4 and WHM-IIC followed closely by the WHK-Prime. That's my take.

Edited by ZaRyume Mukeiyu, 27 May 2019 - 01:55 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

ZaRyume Mukeiyu, on 27 May 2019 - 11:05 AM, said:

WHM-IIC
WHM-IIC "Slower but Cooler"
This is the second lightest Clan Mech, behind the Rifleman-IIC-A, that can reliably maintain its DPS with quad PPCs; majority of the Clan Heavy OmniMechs do not have enough tonnage or slots to fit more than 3 PPCs AND have enough DHS to cool all that excess heat off (also, Nova Cat is not worth using). It has a +20% Velocity Quirk just like the WHK-Prime, though it's not as responsive as said Mech. The WHM-IIC works best with having most of the Nodes in the Mobility Tree selected so it doesn't feel like driving a Semi.
Out of all of these Mechs, experience-wise, I had the most success with the MC-II-4 and WHM-IIC followed closely by the WHK-Prime. That's my take.

Even the Bludgeon has decent PPC velocity quirk and with 1 less DHS, you can add a Targeting Comp. MKII. But the hardpoints are bad. I found this out from another topic I made last night.

The big problems with Warhammer IIC are bad mobility despite being able to run at higher speeds and hitboxes. Sounds like so many other promising mechs, doesn't it?

[VonBruinwald]

I run Quad-ERPPC's on a Night-Gyr.

ECM, Jump-Jets and Laser Heatsinks!

Sure it may not have the raw DPS of the bigger boys but those Laser Heatsinks mean I can maintain a consistent firing pattern across all maps. Once you learn the firing pattern you're set no matter which map you drop on, Terra or Polar. The other advantage is it doesn't take that slot that could otherwise be used by a front-line assault.

But most importantly, it looks awesome!

[FRAGTAST1C]

VonBruinwald, on 28 May 2019 - 06:27 AM, said:

But most importantly, it looks awesome!

It sure does.

The firing pattern that you speak of, do you take long breaks between shots so that you can fire 4 PPCs? I'm only asking 'cause I run a Jaguar with 2 LPL and 6 ERMLs. I alpha strike and run back to cover so that the 70% heat build-up will go down and I can alpha strike again. It's a lot different to playing as the Hellbringer with 2 HLL and 4 ERML where I can be very active. The Jaguar is different. So, the Night Gyr is similar to it? Are you ok with the sluggishness? I have the Jade Kite and I run an UAC10 + 5 UAC5s with an ECM. I find that the sustain is on the edge even in dakka mode.

Edited by FRAGTAST1C, 28 May 2019 - 07:37 AM.

[Grus]

GweNTLeR, on 26 May 2019 - 10:55 PM, said:

Warhawk is great in med-long , but its main flaw is low mounts. Furthermore, ppcs are in different hands which results in complicated aiming.
Deathstrike on the other hand does not have such flaws. Meanwhile, you can make a very similar build on MAD-IIC-8
The most agile marauder-IIC. 4ERPPC with high mounts.
A^7E40Z1|l^|1C|l^|l^|&lt;f|l^p61|l^|l^|l^|l^|1Cq61|l^|l^|1C|1C|VCrV0|l^|l^|l^sV0|l^|l^|l^tn0|l^un0|l^v&lt;0|e&lt;2w202020

Low mounts and a forehead the size of Texas... though I've gritted my teeth, suck my self in one and skilled it out. I've had really good and impressive games in it. But dat forehead...

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

-warhawk prime is excellent for 4x peeps; the low arms ARE a problem though.

-warhammerIIC does it, only problem: the warhammer is *****.

-what I really CAN and DO recommend are the supernova-bla (all torso mounts) and the madcat-4.
snova has them placed very close to the cockpit, mcat has arm-actuators that allow fluid targeting. also very high mounts.
I like them both very much in faction (or did.. anyway).

I would NOT recommend to run 4x peeps in Nascar-Queue in any way, though. atm, that mode lives only by running in circles like madmen and shooting stuff slower than you, while running from stuff faster than you.. the peep is just the wrong weapon for that (aspirin is the only thing that works for QP. that, and booze).

[VonBruinwald]

FRAGTAST1C, on 28 May 2019 - 07:36 AM, said:

It sure does.

The firing pattern that you speak of, do you take long breaks between shots so that you can fire 4 PPCs? I'm only asking 'cause I run a Jaguar with 2 LPL and 6 ERMLs. I alpha strike and run back to cover so that the 70% heat build-up will go down and I can alpha strike again. It's a lot different to playing as the Hellbringer with 2 HLL and 4 ERML where I can be very active. The Jaguar is different. So, the Night Gyr is similar to it? Are you ok with the sluggishness? I have the Jade Kite and I run an UAC10 + 5 UAC5s with an ECM. I find that the sustain is on the edge even in dakka mode.

At full burst it can get 6 shots, 2+2+2, just make sure to stagger so you don't trigger ghost heat.

I run my Night-Gyr more like a Suppression build. I have each arm in it's own firing group and set them to both chain-fire. If I'm side poking I'll double tap whatever arm I'm using as it runs almost heat neutral with a single arm firing. But when both arms are exposed I chain those shots and spread them over 7 before heat becomes an issue. Being able to do that consistently is where the laser-heatsinks shine. I can even spread them to 8 without worry which is incredibly handy when crossing open ground.

The sluggishness can be annoying at first, it handles like a brick without wheels. Best thing to do is pick a position, cover an angle, and hammer anyone who pokes their head out. Your job is to deter the enemies push, not to push your own front. You're a turret.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 28 May 2019 - 03:50 PM.