279 replies to this topic

[Ruediger Steiner]

Smokeviper, on 02 June 2019 - 07:43 AM, said:

You armchair quarterbacks should all go open up your own game companies because I'm sure they would be such a success. (that's sarcasm)

And then there is always this one guy. So we are not allowed to criticize after PGI ****** the game up so many times?
If it wasn´t how i want the game to be, okay.
If 90% of the community would say we love what you do, okay.
But if a company makes one huge mistake after another, year after year, ******* up the gameplay people like over and over and over. And here we are, with a FP update, we all waited for over half a year, that was supposed to improve FP and bring people back to play FP ... and now 90% of the FP players are gone, because the update was so extremely full of ****, not just some minor problems, full of ******** it is beyond belief. From a company that worked for 7 years on this game and doesn´t know **** about the gameplay or the community. They just don´t know ****, it´s my firm belief they actually don´t give a ****.
And than you dare to blame the people who actually care about the game?

[Navid A1]

Smokeviper, on 02 June 2019 - 07:43 AM, said:

I feel sorry for Tina. Not going to waste my time reading more than the little I did. I'll just go play the game that you all seem to be experts on fixing. You armchair quarterbacks should all go open up your own game companies because I'm sure they would be such a success. (that's sarcasm)

And there is this guy.

You realize that by that logic, a car company can just say you can go make your own car if you have a problem with the car lacking a wheel, windows, and front lights, right?
What's that?... you are not a car maker?... so deal with what you have!

You are not happy that the chair you just bought has only three legs?... well you don't make chairs do you? how do you know a chair should have four legs?

It's amazing how people use this anti-logic for every concept.

I develop mathematical models for electrical engineering simulation packages for a living. I'm an electrical engineer myself. Yet If an electrical engineer using those models reports a problem with them, or expresses concern with results, you bet your a$$ I'm going through the model from scratch to try to pin the problem down and fix it.
The reason is that the user in question is one who is actually using the product in a realistic scenario, not me.

PGI is not giving away this game out of charity. It's a business. The fact that this game is still around means that those "armchair quarterbacks" have been buying content.



Also btw,... I'm sure most of the "armchair quarterbacks" you mentioned have more games played than you.

Edited by Navid A1, 02 June 2019 - 09:40 AM.

[Zacharias McLeod]

Tesunie, on 02 June 2019 - 07:03 AM, said:

May I ask for evidence of this? This is new news to me, and I'd just like some confirmation of facts on this.

One thing that was announced publicly, somewhere on these forums, was that IGP pushed for the gold mechs, and that PGI would never attempt gold mechs again as they didn't think it was a good idea. This leads me to believe that what you say seems unlikely, but if true...

Stupitly they clean all infos about PGI and IGP so you have to bee a long time member of the MWO community to get this infos between the lines. You can not find infos about the owners of IGI anymore.

It is to long ago so I can not remember when and where I read thiy infos.

But IGP was build 2011 only a short time before PGI startet the crowdfounding for MWO. IGP was also a canadian company.

All you can find now about IGP and PGI are some broken parts in the MWO forum.

Maybee I am wrong. Like I said it is long ago and this are the things I read and could remember.

PS:
IGP published only 2 games.

MWO and MW-Tactics. They also had plans for a game set in the Dark Age time.

So IGP was founded to publish BT Games.https://www.giantbom...hing/3010-7793/

Edited by Zacharias McLeod, 02 June 2019 - 10:24 AM.

[Tesunie]

Zacharias McLeod, on 02 June 2019 - 10:08 AM, said:

Stupitly they clean all infos about PGI and IGP so you have to bee a long time member of the MWO community to get this infos between the lines. You can not find infos about the owners of IGI anymore.

It is to long ago so I can not remember when and where I read thiy infos.

But IGP was build 2011 only a short time before PGI startet the crowdfounding for MWO. IGP was also a canadian company.

All you can find now about IGP and PGI are some broken parts in the MWO forum.

Maybee I am wrong. Like I said it is long ago and this are the things I read and could remember.

PS:
IGP published only 2 games.

MWO and MW-Tactics. They also had plans for a game set in the Dark Age time.

So IGP was founded to publish BT Games.https://www.giantbom...hing/3010-7793/

IGP may be gone, but the new's articles are not.
https://www.newswire...-510955871.html

Quote

"The success of the Founder's Program reinforces IGP's vision to help independent developers build exceptional games with the right economic model for the global marketplace," said Nick Foster, CEO of IGP.

It says right there that the CEO of IGP was Nick Foster. It also goes on to say how IGP handled the marketing (and yes, sales) of MW:O related aspects, such as the Founder's program (as mentioned within the article). It wouldn't be much of a stretch to presume IGP was in charge of all of MW:O's sale concepts, such as Clan mech packs (which last I recall PGI said they didn't want to include Clans because of balancing reasons... oh wait... what's been one of the biggest contested points of this game to date?) and Gold Mechs (which was also supported by a response by PGI at the time of IGP's removal as "publisher").
FYI: I would not call IGP's concept of "economic model" good, considering some of the things I heard/presume was directed by them, and how they handled the shutting down of MW:Tactics.


About the removal of IGP:
https://www.pcgamer....pment-promised/

About MW:Tactics:
https://bg.battletec...p?topic=43284.0
https://mwomercs.com...ame-publishing/

I got this after about a 10-15 minute google search for "Infinite Games Publisher" (IGP). I was just hoping you had a more direct piece than that on hand...

[Zacharias McLeod]

Tesunie, on 02 June 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:

I got this after about a 10-15 minute google search for "Infinite Games Publisher" (IGP). I was just hoping you had a more direct piece than that on hand...

Great you found all was is left from the PGI IGP deal.

I found it to in only 5 minutes but this is not all.

But who cares.

IGP is gone and PGI is know reponsible for all things that happen after they broke with IGP.

In the first time PGI could say it is all IPGs fault but this times are long ago.

Edited by Zacharias McLeod, 02 June 2019 - 11:12 AM.

[Tesunie]

Zacharias McLeod, on 02 June 2019 - 11:06 AM, said:

Great you found all was is left from the PGI IGP deal.

I found it to in only 5 minutes but this is not all.

I included time to read said articles. All my search results was on google's first page. But I also did searches for terms relating to PGI's CEO and personal to see if I could find out more on the subject.

As mentioned before, we may never know the full amount of details on this subject.

[Zacharias McLeod]

Tesunie, on 02 June 2019 - 11:09 AM, said:

As mentioned before, we may never know the full amount of details on this subject.

Good deal sir.

Like I said before it is to long ago to remember all details.

[Tank]

Eskandare, on 02 June 2019 - 09:23 AM, said:

PGI Please don't let this game die.

There is life lesson in this - enjoy while it lasts.

If they truly wish MWO to live on forever, even when it will be no longer possible to support it as a business - after the server shut down, they can leave technical documentation on how server side works, people will make server emulators.

Few old MMO's who has those are pretty munch immortal and still run and getting developed by the community.

[Thorn Hallis]

I'm really torn on this one. On one hand I don't want MWO to die, want MW5 to succeed, because I don't wanna see any PGI employee being put on the welfare line.

But on the other hand...I'd really like to see how a different developer would handle an online-only Mechwarrior game.

[FireBlood]

Thorn Hallis, on 02 June 2019 - 06:06 PM, said:

But on the other hand...I'd really like to see how a different developer would handle an online-only Mechwarrior game.

This mentality has been persistent since the very first snafu. Yes mistakes were made... And yes the community threw stones at them. Whether or not this is the end of MWO I don't know, but for serious... If it wasn't for PGI do you really think we would have gotten another Mechwarrior game at all? I personally doubt it. No one wanted to touch it, not even Microsoft. If PGI looses the license.. I truly believe MW5 will be the last Mechwarrior game for at least a decade or two. It's a sad state but at least PGI did something. The art will last forever I hope and with mods, missing mechs and maybe a cheeky Alex inspired design will make it into MW5 and stand the test of time.

[Rebel Ace Fryslan]

As above her PGI had to make good base from what (mess) IGP left behind.

They did a reasonable job, as far as i can really know what situation was.
But gamers don't care/know or maybe should.

They made mistakes and played into too much to the vocal parties.
Made some weird twists and lack in improvements.

But is think stability and gradual improvement of existing parts of the game could have been done allot better.
This will have steadily increased the player base and transactions.

The sale and especially micro-transactions could have been done a bit better as well.

It is a good game and we should promote it ourself allot more and be attentive to new players.

[Navid A1]

Rebel Ace Fryslan, on 03 June 2019 - 01:28 AM, said:

As above her PGI had to make good base from what (mess) IGP left behind.

They did a reasonable job, as far as i can really know what situation was.
But gamers don't care/know or maybe should.

They made mistakes and played into too much to the vocal parties.
Made some weird twists and lack in improvements.

But is think stability and gradual improvement of existing parts of the game could have been done allot better.
This will have steadily increased the player base and transactions.

The sale and especially micro-transactions could have been done a bit better as well.

It is a good game and we should promote it ourself allot more and be attentive to new players.

Just remember one thing.

A playable voice-acted MW5 at mechcon 2016 under UE4 was not slapped together the night before.

Just think about that for a second and you'll see why MWO development was practically stalled when 2014 ended!

god bless the clans!

Edited by Navid A1, 03 June 2019 - 01:37 AM.

[Thorn Hallis]

FireBlood, on 02 June 2019 - 10:32 PM, said:

This mentality has been persistent since the very first snafu. Yes mistakes were made... And yes the community threw stones at them. Whether or not this is the end of MWO I don't know, but for serious... If it wasn't for PGI do you really think we would have gotten another Mechwarrior game at all? I personally doubt it. No one wanted to touch it, not even Microsoft. If PGI looses the license.. I truly believe MW5 will be the last Mechwarrior game for at least a decade or two. It's a sad state but at least PGI did something. The art will last forever I hope and with mods, missing mechs and maybe a cheeky Alex inspired design will make it into MW5 and stand the test of time.

Well, if it would be 2013 now I would agree with you.
But we live in 2019. PGI showed that you can make money out of an online-only Mechwarrior game (or the Mechwarrior community has proven that it would support even a minimum viable product for seven years and counting), so the chances are there that another developer might pick up the idea. Who knows what a young up- and coming developing team might come up with.
Sure, we might end up with a much worse product, but maybe, just maybe we might get something more pleasing.

[Thorn Hallis]

AnAnachronismAlive, on 03 June 2019 - 03:19 AM, said:

Microsofts recent studio acquisitions sparked a glimmer of hope in my heart...

I wouldn't be surprised if PGI hoped to be one of those acquisitions.

[Peter2k]

K
Supported PGI through some difficult times, spent about 1800$, not counting stuff for new players
Had my fun, moved on and knew that all that FP bravado from AUGUST last year would lead to basically nowhere
It's a proven track record

Note 1
If you happen to have the actual company that makes tabletop boxes with battletech again at MechCon, maybe, just maybe ask them to put in a pamphlet for MWO and MW5
I know PGI does not "believe" in advertisement, but this should be easy to comprehend

Not like I could imagine even giving some promo codes on those things with some free hero mech, some MC and premium time

Note 2
So you stripped MWO of Development resources for about a year, with nothing to announce for it at MechCon and the long awaited FP changes are meh
Yeah I wonder why people buy less /s

3
I have not pre ordered MW5, not gonna until there is more MW5 stuff as boni
This, with the FP failing, has not exactly changed my stance on the matter


4
I love that there are still so many believing the complainers are teenagers with no life or something
The typical MWO player is well into his adult life

Some run companies, some are engineers
I remember someone does UI design for a living and loved reading the critique
We have/had murders, map makers, lore lovers
A boatload of mature people that would've committed they're talent and knowledge for basically free


At the end of day, same old same old

Lots of time went by and there is nothing to show for it

P.S. there is no way MWO can make due with a subscription model
Even at it's best times MWO didn't pump out enough content to entice people to pay a monthly bill

[HassonAssassin]

Dran Dragore, on 01 June 2019 - 07:14 AM, said:

its so sad: i hoped for upgraded graphic Engine, for Mechs like Fire Falcon, Phantom, Crusader, Avatar, Hauptman and many others. I was desperatly looking forward for additional Weapons like the HAGs and MML, Omnimechs for IS,... . I looked forward for new Maps and other features like Clan Galaxy Decals. None of them will come I got now several Years of Premium Time on Account, looks like i wont be able to spend it all. I bought many, many Mechpacks, sometimes the whole package because i wanted to support the Game, to support PGI. Now its clear: the game will die. I loved the Battletech Universe since many years and the announcement is a kick in the stomach. At the moment there is no other Mechgame out other than MWO. Hawken is also gone, but it never reached MWO. Anyway: thanks PGI for the game. Had a lot of fun over the years. Maybe you find a way for making Money out of this great Universe...

I couldn't have said this any better.

All we can do is enjoy the game in it's current state until it's slowly put down over the next handful of months / year.

Thanks for the victories, thanks for the defeats, thanks for bringing me to communities of people I wouldn't have met that I cherish with a common interest in the biggest and stompiest.

I bought MW:5, and I hope they put aside money for marketing the game. I hope this community does it right and spreads the word instead of the angst about MWO so we can start more conversations about mech stuff and battletech.

Long live the Draconis Combine~

[Shade4x]

I've played since beta. Like a lot of you, i loved battletech. One of the highlights was having birthdays at the old battletech simulator. I'm know i've spent a lot on this game, and i do want it to keep going. However i'm pretty surprised that it lasted this long. I think we can acknowledge a few things, without being raging hormonal teenagers.

First, i think we all need to acknowledge that PGI has never had a team to continue designing the team. The have, at best, a mod team. We asked for Faciton Play, A better mech building UI (and pointed to smurfy-net), better designed maps, the Arena on S7, tanks and aero's, drop ships, and a single player mode. In fact, single player was promised when i bought a founders pack. It took them 8 months to make a worse version of smurfy-nets, despite having a working template. The S7 was in the last year or so (didn't bother playing it since FP sucked), and the broke POS that was faction play. Single player mode will be MW5, which we have to pay for again. In fact, google MWO Beta, The only thing that has changed, has been things that made everyone stop playing (ghost heat, adding in Quirks to duct tape ghost heat and bad map design, Gauss mechanic's, engine desync). None of these were well received. Developing a game is a lot harder then most people think. Adding A night version an existing map, and releasing it as a new map isn't.

Second, Can we acknowledge how ruthless MWO has been about monetizing the game? It takes years to add a new game mode, but every month, since the start, we have received a new mech to buy. I've watched months go by, telling us everything is delayed, even bug fix's, but always a new mech. Then there was the mega pack's. Clan's, civil war, Clans wave 2, Resistance, all costing hundreds of dollars. Where did that money go? What other game has released a $500 Golden Mech? The squeezed us dry, as fast and as long as possible, till the people who bought the mech packs left. Remember? it use to be $5 for a paint job, ONLY for the mech and it's variants. Color's are extra, so are patterns and decals. There is supporting a game, and there is gouging the player base for everything it's got. How many Mass Exodus's have we gone through because of this issue?

Finally i want to touch on the whole "Ignoring the community" thing. We have had 100 page topic's where the community has all asked for the same things. We have had the majority of top player's released highly technical stats and charts, showing imbalances and plenty of post's of bug's, with precise details on where to fix them. All of this has been ignored, and some of these PGI has mocked. Think i'm wrong? In fullscreen mode, try tabbing between the loading screen and when the match loads. Bug's been there since beta.

Despite all of this, it's a solid game, with an insanely passionate fan base. After all the BS, I still come back to play a few matches, and try out some new mech's or designs. PGI's decisions where bad, often killing the player base, but Battletech has always been fun. I'll buy Mechwarrior 5, cause i love Battletech, and i'll continue to support MWO, because i love Battletech. PGI is pretty much comcast to me. They don't deserve loyalty, but the own the license to something that does.

I want to know 2 things.

1) If MWO is shut down, will you let us fans open up a non profiting server, or sell a license to run MWO similarly to how City of Heroes is doing it?

2) Instead of the subscription model, try posting the server costs. I'm willing to bet that their are enough whales in this community that would simply pay to keep the servers running. Casual's won't pay a subscription fee, and if they go, Whales can't find matches.

Also this isn't the first time Russ threatened to shut down MWO if people didn't buy his stuff. Anyone remember Phoenix Pack, or when IGP went under, Or the first Clans Pack?

[MechaBattler]

They mention the game has been going for seven years. But it feels like we've been waiting seven years for the game to reach some unforeseen plateau of completeness. It just never did. It's kinda sad actually.

If you're gonna put the game on life support. Then you better do more with MW5! So much more!

[Adamant80]

Peter2k, on 03 June 2019 - 05:05 AM, said:

Note 2
So you stripped MWO of Development resources for about a year, with nothing to announce for it at MechCon and the long awaited FP changes are meh
Yeah I wonder why people buy less /s

I too feel as if the development of MW5 took away from the development of MWO. I dont know what the specifics were but the cash loss from lack of MWO development appear to not be sustainable for the development of both the games. Maybe they put too much emphasis on mech packs. I dont know. There can be factors I'm not aware of like community size and active player count.

I just hope neither game dies for what ever reason.

[Kravshera]

Nobody should be surprised that MWO is nearing it's end.. I'm surprised it has kicked on for as long as it has.
Big, slow mechs has never been a mainstream thing and developing TWO games in that genre at the same time can't be easy.

I'm positive about MW5 and the 4 player coop, if done right that has massive potential.
Given how FP has worked since it's launch, it's not a feature i will miss.. after all, it's just a glorified quick drop.

All in all, i see it as only natural that focus is turned towards the future and MW5..

Lamborghini Diablo was an amazing car for it's time.. doesn't mean Lamborghini wants to keep servicing, updating and developing it long past it's prime and to the point where it's obsolete compared to competitors.
Nor is it strange for Lamborghini to use revenue earned from the Diablo to develop a new supercar.. hm?


This is a very clear message from Russ, that MWO may indeed be nearing it's end and I for one think that's a brave and honest thing to communicate, as it may indeed make a lot of players quit early - not wanting to invest time and money into something that will not give a return value in the time to come.