55 replies to this topic

[Yang_Tomoe]

Have you noticed that ammo reserves are too low?

Do you keep running out of ammo?

My Direwolf loaded with 8 LB2-X keeps running out of ammo. The skilltree only gives you 8 additional rounds for each node. It is not enough to justify the loss of a skillpoint, but even with 7.5 ton of ammo I only have 775 ammo for my guns...... This is ridiculously low.

it's not enough to provide cover fire for my team mates.....

it's not enough to make more than a kill or two. An assault mech ought to be able to do better. How are we supposed to earn achievements like "Ace of Spades" if we don't have enough ammo to make 8 kills? 1550 damage is not enough damage to kill more than one or two mechs...... This means you can only earn "Ace of Spades" by relying on Kill stealing. Is this what we want to encourage players to do? Heck I can take over 1'000 damage on my mech alone!

Sadly it's not just LB2-X that suffers. Take a look at the pitiful amount of extra ammo you get. Many mechs have been affected and not for the better.

I for one hope this is just an oversight on the part of the DEV's. Perhaps they shifted a decimal or two by mistake? It would make sense if both skills together gave 160, or even 1600 more ammo rather than just 16.

According to lore the king crab was designed to take on an entire lance by itself and win. As things stand this is impossible with a Dakka build.

More ammo = More fun

Give us back our ammo please!

[Meep Meep]

Ammo counts have been steadily increased over the years and there didn't used to be any meaningful ammo quirks either.

[Rain Dark Sky]

That's what backup weapons are for.

Why you no bring laser to gun fight?

[cougurt]

what are you using all your tonnage on? you can fit 10 tons of ammo without even stripping any armor. take a bit from the arms and legs and you can easily get that up to 12 tons.

[LordNothing]

thats what happens when you have 8 lb2s. ammo goes bye. i ran 11 tons of ammo on my ultraviolet (the old config before i moved the omnipods to the ecm variant), and i ran out a lot. im not sure there is a way to get more without removing a gun. though i may have been running an extra heat sink since i was using cac2s and not lb2s and needed a little extra cooling.

my general rule of thumb is at least 1.5 ton per weapon on builds that also have energy weapons. on builds where i only have ammo weapons i like to do at least 2-3. the ultraviolet simply does not have the space for 16 tons of ammo in the 8 gun config. its part of the tradeoff. what you have is an extreme edge-case in the game balance.

also if you want to get ace of spades, you are better off with something thats not damage capped. many times i have gotten 7 kills in ballistic boat, just to run out of ammo on the last kill. happened in a banshee, the annihilator, and the ultraviolet at least twice. ultimately getting it in a damn bracket build supernova with cerppcs and srms (and i got 9 that match). more mobility than a dire wolf is strongly recommended.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 July 2023 - 11:44 PM.

[crazytimes]

If your build is ammo starved then you're either building it poorly or playing it poorly. Or both.

1550 damage should equate to 4-8 kills. Unsure if this is an elaborate troll or what.

[Storky]

Yang_Tomoe, on 05 July 2023 - 09:17 PM, said:

Have you noticed that ammo reserves are too low?

Do you keep running out of ammo?

My Direwolf loaded with 8 LB2-X keeps running out of ammo. The skilltree only gives you 8 additional rounds for each node. It is not enough to justify the loss of a skillpoint, but even with 7.5 ton of ammo I only have 775 ammo for my guns...... This is ridiculously low.

it's not enough to provide cover fire for my team mates.....

it's not enough to make more than a kill or two. An assault mech ought to be able to do better. How are we supposed to earn achievements like "Ace of Spades" if we don't have enough ammo to make 8 kills? 1550 damage is not enough damage to kill more than one or two mechs...... This means you can only earn "Ace of Spades" by relying on Kill stealing. Is this what we want to encourage players to do? Heck I can take over 1'000 damage on my mech alone!

Sadly it's not just LB2-X that suffers. Take a look at the pitiful amount of extra ammo you get. Many mechs have been affected and not for the better.

I for one hope this is just an oversight on the part of the DEV's. Perhaps they shifted a decimal or two by mistake? It would make sense if both skills together gave 160, or even 1600 more ammo rather than just 16.

According to lore the king crab was designed to take on an entire lance by itself and win. As things stand this is impossible with a Dakka build.

More ammo = More fun

Give us back our ammo please!

Try 10 caliber cannons and LGauss. They has 200+ dmg/ton

[Storky]

Also check out this Ammo Calculator
https://mwomercs.com...-version11-now/

[Saved By The Bell]

You need 2 tons of ammo for any one weapon.

[sycocys]

The amount of ammo isn't the problem here.

[w0qj]

I'm afraid that these mechs will always be targeted first in a match: Annihilator, Atlas, Dire Wolf, and the upcoming Stone Rhino. Other priority mechs targeted as the opportunity arise: CRD-6T, CRD-CR, SHD-S(LGD)

As Dire Wolf dies quickly (group focused, rather squishy DWF armor, slow), I would feel uncomfortable with 2-3 tons per weapon for my Dire Wolf. This would well entail reducing the number of weapons, or using smaller caliber weapons, which is antithesis to what the Dire Wolf is all about. Better to do lots of damage (500-800 damage) and die quickly, rather than a hiding Dire Wolf.

1. For longer range ballistic Dire Wolf sniper (8x LBX2, or 8x AC2, or 8x UAC2): you'll always have ammo issues, as you are right on the edge of usability (ammo issues, heat issues on 8x UAC2, etc.)

Solution: downgrade to 6x of above weapons, not 8x. You'll have much more tonnage for ammo. Or use the freed tonnage for a big Targeting Computer for faster weapon velocity, so more of your shots connect.
(I don't personally like either of these two solutions).

2. Or, try 5-series brawling Dire Wolf with more ammo:
DWF-C / DWF-UV / DWF-A: 6x AC5 (or UAC5 or LBX5 --> your choice!).

3. Or, try 10-series brawling Dire Wolf with enough ammo in my eyes:
DWF-UV or DWF-A: 5x AC10 (or UAC10 or LBX10 --> your choice!).

Option (2) or (3) is much more workable in my eyes, but it's a brawling style Dire Wolf.
Option (1) is definitely a long range ballistic sniper.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By the way, this is coming from a Tier 4/3 player, with a stable of 10+ DWF-A(P) / DWF-UV / DWF-C(S) mechs

Edited by w0qj, 06 July 2023 - 07:16 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

The ammo count could maybe be increased for AC2s or all ballistics in general. Armor values are doubled, but ammo wasn't afaik. Ballistics in general weight too much but we're kinda stuck with that.

[KursedVixen]

w0qj, on 06 July 2023 - 07:12 AM, said:

I'm afraid that these mechs will always be targeted first in a match: Annihilator, Atlas, Dire Wolf, and the upcoming Stone Rhino. Other priority mechs targeted as the opportunity arise: CRD-6T, CRD-CR, SHD-S(LGD)

As Dire Wolf dies quickly (group focused, rather squishy DWF armor, slow), I would feel uncomfortable with 2-3 tons per weapon for my Dire Wolf. This would well entail reducing the number of weapons, or using smaller caliber weapons, which is antithesis to what the Dire Wolf is all about. Better to do lots of damage (500-800 damage) and die quickly, rather than a hiding Dire Wolf.

1. For longer range ballistic Dire Wolf sniper (8x LBX2, or 8x AC2, or 8x UAC2): you'll always have ammo issues, as you are right on the edge of usability (ammo issues, heat issues on 8x UAC2, etc.)

Solution: downgrade to 6x of above weapons, not 8x. You'll have much more tonnage for ammo. Or use the freed tonnage for a big Targeting Computer for faster weapon velocity, so more of your shots connect.
(I don't personally like either of these two solutions).

2. Or, try 5-series brawling Dire Wolf with more ammo:
DWF-C / DWF-UV / DWF-A: 6x AC5 (or UAC5 or LBX5 --> your choice!).

3. Or, try 10-series brawling Dire Wolf with enough ammo in my eyes:
DWF-UV or DWF-A: 5x AC10 (or UAC10 or LBX10 --> your choice!).

Option (2) or (3) is much more workable in my eyes, but it's a brawling style Dire Wolf.
Option (1) is definitely a long range ballistic sniper.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
By the way, this is coming from a Tier 4/3 player, with a stable of 10+ DWF-A(P) / DWF-UV / DWF-C(S) mechs

they also nerfed the dire's speed awhile back further makign it a easy target. It use to go it's cannon speed of 54 kph though I think it went 52.... which is still better than what it is. i really think the speed needs to be restored to all mechs and maybe remove the speed tweak skill...

Edited by KursedVixen, 06 July 2023 - 08:59 AM.

[RockmachinE]

You are piloting literally the most ammo hungry mech in the game.

The ammo skill is required for most if not all ammo dependent mechs and adds up to quite a bit the more ammo tonnage you have.

A good guide is a minimum 2 tons per weapon system, if its a ballistics only build I'd say even more, cram as much ammo in there as possible and take all the skill nodes!

[LordNothing]

crazytimes, on 05 July 2023 - 11:59 PM, said:

If your build is ammo starved then you're either building it poorly or playing it poorly. Or both.

1550 damage should equate to 4-8 kills. Unsure if this is an elaborate troll or what.

depends on the pilot at the receiving end. some players know how to roll damage better than others. if everyone face tanks then 200 damage/mech is about right, but if you got somone rolling 1k damage, you are going to waste a lot of ammo on that mech. granted you can opt to disengage, but with those kind of skills on display id want that mech taken off the board asap.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 July 2023 - 02:57 PM.

[LordNothing]

sycocys, on 06 July 2023 - 03:55 AM, said:

The amount of ammo isn't the problem here.

yes and no. no in that an ultraviolet can and often does break 1k damage in most matches, and 2k is not unobtanium. with skill this mech is a beast. but yes in that there is no 8-gun build that can have more than 1.32t per gun without stripping significant armor (10.5t, which requires only 6 points of armor be stripped, i usually strip more for 11 because of the extreme range it can operate at, there is room for 17 tons).

in hard numbers the damage cap is at about 2162 in the 10.5 config and both ammo nodes. you can boost that with strikes. if you pull 6t of armor, and you can if you're crazy, you then get a damage cap around 3500, which could probably get you ace if all your ammo doesn't get critted out first. you are trading more upfront damage for less sustain, its similar to the tubes vs ammo debate among lermers.

another build variant you could do is put the ballistic pods an a dire wolf w, and you can have 3 ermeds for backup. or go with one of the prime arms and trade a gun for four erml. or either can do erll if you want to give up armor or ammo. a laser backed 6 or 7 gun can also work well.

op is probibly trying to use the c variant with its ecm hardpoint in the ct, which costs you 3t ammo because of the fixed jump jet and ecm module in the ct. i cant help but think that was intentional to further ammo limit the ecm 8-gunner. however even the ammo limited ecm build can pull its own weight and then some in a match, but for ace of spades i think its a poor choice.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 July 2023 - 03:26 PM.

[sycocys]

LordNothing, on 07 July 2023 - 03:21 PM, said:

yes and no.

if you are averaging 750 damage per kill, ammo isn't the problem.

[LordNothing]

sycocys, on 07 July 2023 - 05:44 PM, said:

if you are averaging 750 damage per kill, ammo isn't the problem.

LordNothing, on 06 July 2023 - 02:48 PM, said:

depends on the pilot at the receiving end. some players know how to roll damage better than others. if everyone face tanks then 200 damage/mech is about right, but if you got somone rolling 1k damage, you are going to waste a lot of ammo on that mech. granted you can opt to disengage, but with those kind of skills on display id want that mech taken off the board asap.

id only add that the op was using lb2s rather than cac2s, i feel that might be his biggest mistake. ive gotten kills at 1km with that mech. they seemed completely ignorant that they were taking 16 damage per hit and gladly face tanked it until they died. others rolled and lived. im gonna shoot because damage is damage.

Edited by LordNothing, 07 July 2023 - 06:15 PM.

[sycocys]

LordNothing, on 07 July 2023 - 06:08 PM, said:

id only add that the op was using lb2s rather than cac2s, i feel that might be his biggest mistake. ive gotten kills at 1km with that mech. they seemed completely ignorant that they were taking 16 damage per hit and gladly face tanked it until they died. others rolled and lived. im gonna shoot because damage is damage.

I'm sure you can get kills with the setup, and at its range - but if you are -averaging- 750 damage per kill, the problem isn't a lack of ammo it's a lack of good targeting, positioning and shot selection.

[Marcel Leander]

Skill nodes are supposed to be a slight gain that adds up to a little bit of an advantage when you have all the right nodes in place, not make things outright unfair. Your build needs to be able to stand on its own and just take the skills as a nice little bonus.

Those magazine capacity nodes are getting you +8 to a 87 round LBX2 bucket, +3 to a 35 round LBX5 bucket, that's right around 8.5% to 9% gains on something that only weighs a ton. That's HUGE compared to something like a -0.6% heat gen or cool down per node. Your heat sinks also at one ton each only get +2% increase in dissipation per node of Cool Run, or +3% heat cap per node of Heat Containment. You have to bring 12 whole nodes just to make your mech run 7.5% faster.

Like anything else in the skill tree, the mileage you get out of a node depends on your loadout to take advantage of the perks. You aren't going to dump 4 skill points on -10% laser duration on a bunch of 0.5 duration Micro Pulses, or 5 points for +10% heat dissipation for your gauss rifles. But carrying 3 tons of LBX2 ammo, having both magazine nodes is 48 more shots, that's more than a half ton of ammo free.

As far as your whole damage to ammo situation, you have to be considering what those different sizes of AC are meant for. The game is balanced and when you get better in one stat, you lose in another. Any kind of AC2 is going to have the lowest DPS of the AC's, but the range is insane. Bring two LBX2's and you're at the same weight as an LBX10 but with higher DPS and nearly twice the range (and that's before you consider that the difference in LBX spread widens that gap even more). What do you pay for doing this? An extra hard point, one more slot, and your ammo doesn't go as far (a ton of LBX10 ammo is 230 damage, a ton of LBX2 ammo is 174 damage - but even then, that means missing an LBX10 shot is a bigger waste).

Then consider that an LBX2 is 0.11 DPS shy of a C-Large Pulse, weighs less, has 65% more range, has a higher DPS/weight ratio, produces a quarter of the heat per second (and double heat sinks take up twice the space as a ton of ammo), and you can bring more of them because of HSL. And you know what else the LBX has going for it? HUGE crit percentage bonus and damage multiplier, once you're past the armor - these things shred open components and exposed items. How does that get balanced? The laser has unlimited shots. That's all it gets. Getting an extra 17% ammo for only two nodes actually goes a LONG way in mitigating its only real weakness.

Straight talk, these auto cannons are already so crazy powerful that if my ammo supply were beefed up to a non-issue, yeah it would be more fun - for me. But not for anyone else looking for a fair fight. As it is right now, I can trounce laser voms with barely a sweat and the only thing keeping me in check is that after 4-5 kills I become a lot less of a threat. My DW is carrying 2xLBX5 4xLBX2 5xuPL and 2xSPL, and I pretty much just walk around looking for anyone who got too far from their pack and challenging them to a staring contest (and taking long range pot shots while I'm waiting). And I REALLY want to hate the DW. I didn't play it for a long time. But I just can't put together a build that can devastate things in a 1 on 1 brawl the way this thing can. I can only imagine... give me 1600 more ammo and God help you all.

Edited by Marcel Leander, 09 July 2023 - 11:38 PM.