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The King Is Dead! .....long Live The King!


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#1 Xetelian

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 06:19 PM

The game is dead. The freaking CEO of Piranha games declared his game dead while his team makes a single player game and has the audacity to tell us mechpacks aren't viable revenue wise.


Maybe the mechpacks would be viable revenue wise if they were worth more? Banked premium instead of active? 20$ getting you 9 cockpit items instead of the collectors pack. Collectors pack coming with a camo instead of just the pre-order and event grind?

Maybe they could make sure the mechs don't suck out loud when they sell them too you 3 months in advance?

I am not buying Mechwarrior 5. There are a lot of reasons but I was thinking about it and this settled it for me.

1. My real life friends and my other brother don't enjoy doing group queue drops with me because we almost always come up against an organized team and get stomped. 2v2 solaris is dead so we can't do that.

2. All the nerfs, so damn many nerfs. Your precious TTK grognards have been ruining this game year after year with their complaints.

A justified nerf? Yes it was a good idea to make it so people couldn't put 6 ERLL on a DWF and melt you in one shot from 800m. Too bad it took you many months to figure that out, long enough to drive off most of the innersphere dedicated players and do enough damage to make even the heaviest nerfs not seem enough to balance clans vs IS. You set a precedent and it sucks out loud.

An unjustified nerf? 4 damage cSPL and a 6.5 damage cMPL and further nerfs to the entire laser family on both the innersphere and clan side. I said when PPFLD stopped reigning supreme that you'd push us into using lasers and guess what? I was freaking right, you can search this forum for me saying that back in 2015.

Justified nerf? Clans getting less dissipation and heat cap when they lose part of their engine.

Unjustified nerf? LFE and cXL overheating if you have heat on you when they get shot off. Making clan mechs without ballistics and easy kill if you aim for a shoulder and they're have anything remotely warm to fight you with.

Justified nerf? Jump jets and jump sniping. BUT WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU DO IT THE WAY YOU DID IT?! Serious, why could you just add shake to the fall or make the recticle rise as you fell throwing the aim off instead of having perfect aim during a fall? Why did you have to make Jump Jets damn new useless on EVERYTHING.



Unjustified nerfs? Artemis nerfs, spread nerfs, and CD/Heat nerfs to SRMs.

Justified nerfs? Linking PPC to Gauss 5 years too late, but not at 3, at 2 which is awful.

Unjustified nerf? Engine De-sync, we were promised that they'd go through and up the mobility on every mech by hand but they used the DWF as a baseline and EVERYTHING (outside of a select few) lost much needed mobility, which left them vulnerable to laser alphas.





You make this game worse to play and you expect people to give you money?


You set your pre-order for a mech and 3 months later we finally get to play with it but it is hot garbage and we feel cheated. Or its amazing and for 6-9 months it mops the floor against everything else before it comes out for cBills.

Of COURSE this model isn't sustainable.


It only takes one bad purchase for people not to want to pre-order mechs from you.
In discord on the various servers, I used to see new people and they'd ask how long until they could cBill purchase a new mech and I'd say about half a year and they'd leave. No DUH!

Too many mechs are bad. My friend bought $210 dollars in wave 1 120 in wave 2 and 3 and can't stand piloting those mechs. The TBR is bad now, it can't laser like an HBR, it can't ballistic or splat like a EBJ or ONI IIC A respectively and it can't LRM like a MDD. The precedent you set that clans are too powerful has ruined most of the clan mechs, especially the locked equipment omnimechs.




Why can't we hardpoint inflate the bad mechs? Why can't bad mechs good good quirks? Why dies the SDR 5V have to be stuck with 2 hardpoints? Why can't it have 6 now? or at the very least 4? Why can't the 5D have as good of quirks as the non-ecm ones? It can only hold 3 weapons.

The roughneck is the only mech with structure and armor quirks, why is that? Why does the AS7 not have all armor quirks like the ANH? The ANH is much better by far even if slower but it has major armor. Why doesn't the STK have armor quirks?

Why have you done so much to kill brawling? Everything is sluggish, everything dies at mid to long range and everything has such bad spread that splat is only viable when its overwhelming.


Why are strikes and cool shots and UAVs in this game? They give an unfair advantage to founders like me that have 150,000,000 cBills to spare and newer players just have to eat that extra alpha I can pull off because of it or lost all their back armor to a strike or get rained on from cover because of a well placed UAV.



Remember Long Toms? How many people did that drive away? Your side is winning, you have the advantage, AND you get Long Toms on top of it, making anyone fighting against you struggle even more as you get free kills.


Why do we have Solaris 7 and FP if the majority isn't playing them because they aren't very fun?


There is a Solaris 7 event happening right now and I couldn't find a single person in 2v2 on a Friday evening last night Pacific prime time.


Why have you wasted so many resources on these modes? Why didn't you just make more modes and better group/solo queue play where your main audience is?

How much money did you divert from MWO for MW5? How many people on your payroll are working on MW5 instead of MWO?


Why don't you ever use the PTS? We literally have to beg you to use it before you make drastic changes.



Why don't you buy ad space with any of our revenue? Even mobile games with no one playing them yet can get ads on Youtube, you could buy space on PCGamer, Alienware Arena, AGAIN and do more promotional stuff with other companies but you don't. You stopped doing that a long time ago and even when you dropped on Steam you didn't announce it to the world, you got a bit of an influx of players (I think a lot of them were just unable to use your awful portal app) and you did squat with that.


Why were the steam premium packs taken down? Why are they so expensive? What is wrong with the Steam packs being for sale? Why didn't you make any more? I bought 3 of the damn things. 1 assault pack and 2 heavy mech packs during summer sales. Why is this no longer a thing?


You know that you can look at things 2 ways right?

Sell high and sell few, but make money off smaller sales
Or sell low and sell more and make money off more sales

Why can't we buy individual mechs in the mechpacks yet? Why is that? I don't want 3 omnimechs that can all run the same build when I could buy just a hero and mix in other pods...

Why does a purchase through the Steam store not count as buying a mechpack for anniversary rewards? Why do they only count as MC when they're 49.99? Thats a collectors pack value right there.



Why (again) is all purchased premium time active instead of banked?

Why did we have garbage loot boxes for so long? Why do we still have garbage loot boxes but for free?


Why did you declare the game being dead live to hundreds of people? You want the game to die? You certain helped it die with that.



How much money did Harmony Gold get off you for the Warhammer? Was it enough to do serious damage?

How soon are you losing the license to this game? Microsoft not going to let you continue because you can't afford to renew and are making them too little money? Are you spending too much money frivolously on new outside game modes instead of group and solo queue modes?

If MW5 is a disaster (as I suspect even with mod support) will your company dissolve like IGP?


You know IGP is PGI backwards right?


Why don't you run an investment campaign, with 500$ gold paint schemes that make any mech you put them on into 30% cBill bonus mech, single use.

Edited by Xetelian, 01 June 2019 - 09:35 PM.


#2 The6thMessenger

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 06:29 PM

Yep.

They killed this game. We were trying to make it better, but it all fell on deaf ears.

They wasted a lot of resources on so many frivolous things, like the FP remake that just ****** up our FP experience, the Solaris 7 that people barely play -- I'm not even that good at 1v1 yet i qualified at top 500. Dafuq?

Resources that could have been put to better use, like transferring MWO to Unreal Engine -- which allows them to better optimize the game, and to give it features that they couldn't before like Ammo-Switching and Crit-Splitting.

They could have balanced the game properly by doing the Community Driven Balance patch, but nah man lets just **** **** up. Lets give every assault sluggish movement speed, lets **** up clan mobility instead of addressing techbase imbalance, lets **** up locust mobility because **** this frustrating little bugger. Lets just put Ghost Heat system cause we're too lazy in balancing the Clan properly, lets link Gauss PPC together that could only fire two, lets make PPCs too hot. etc. etc.

Much incompetence, much bad decision, and now the game is dead, and it dies as a frustrating reminder of what it once was and what could have been, as opposed of a good game we could all look back to.

#3 Thiccacuga

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 06:38 PM

Geez you guys really got dat head up your butts in the forums huh?

#4 Xetelian

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 06:44 PM

View PostCuddlyZebesian, on 01 June 2019 - 06:38 PM, said:

Geez you guys really got dat head up your butts in the forums huh?


Congrats on your 29th post! Way to stay on topic and not troll!

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Guild wars 1 still has its servers running and it hasn't made any money in a long time, why is this game suddenly dead? Are servers really that expensive that you can't run them? Or is it the license?



Why not lower the entry fee into mech packs 10$ for first level of heavies and assults and 5$ for lights and mediums and then 5-10$ more for collectors and 10-15$ for the hero still. I'd bet you'd sell twice as many of them, hell maybe even 3 times as many? Also make them come out in a timely fashion. Don't announce them 3 months ahead of time expecting pre-orders or at the very least make the pre-order bonuses good for more than 1 month when it is still a pre-order up until the day they release.



Why can't I get my pre-order bonus on the 3rd or 5th of the next month instead of the last few days of the existing month?



Why does it take 6-9 months for it to come out for MC and cBills? Why not just make your money selling heroes instead of pay gating the damn things for so long.

Edited by Xetelian, 01 June 2019 - 06:50 PM.


#5 Thiccacuga

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 06:53 PM

The hostile response only proves the point, namely only T1s come on here screaming about everything. Then again I don't have the same monetary investment in a game whose model is "pay rl dosh for internet robots"

#6 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:07 PM

It might be a year or so before the life support is discontinued OR it can have a resurgence if MW5 does well and brings the interest to the Battletech universe. However, PGI needs to stay on point and capitalize quickly and by that, I don't mean milk the cash cow (if it ever gets created) but instead, realize that THEIR ideas are as bad as any bad ideas humans have had in history and re-evaluate all possibilities before implementing any features. But that's just hoping for something good out of all this.... Posted Image

View PostCuddlyZebesian, on 01 June 2019 - 06:53 PM, said:

The hostile response only proves the point, namely only T1s come on here screaming about everything. Then again I don't have the same monetary investment in a game whose model is "pay rl dosh for internet robots"


As opposed to "pay rl dosh for the internet cost for trolling possibilities"?

In rl, if you barged into a conversation/discussion and provided nothing of value, you'd be laughed out of the room. Only on the internet, where anonymity rules, you can continue to troll.

Here's an idea... it's great that you didn't pay a dime on this game and still managed to get some value out of your actions that way. But that was made possible by people who spent money on this game regularly. Next time, try and filter your thoughts before you spew it out like a dump truck.

#7 Thiccacuga

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:10 PM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 01 June 2019 - 07:07 PM, said:

It might be a year or so before the life support is discontinued OR it can have a resurgence if MW5 does well and brings the interest to the Battletech universe. However, PGI needs to stay on point and capitalize quickly and by that, I don't mean milk the cash cow (if it ever gets created) but instead, realize that THEIR ideas are as bad as any bad ideas humans have had in history and re-evaluate all possibilities before implementing any features. But that's just hoping for something good out of all this.... Posted Image



As opposed to "pay rl dosh for the internet cost for trolling possibilities"?

In rl, if you barged into a conversation/discussion and provided nothing of value, you'd be laughed out of the room. Only on the internet, where anonymity rules, you can continue to troll.

Here's an idea... it's great that you didn't pay a dime on this game and still managed to get some value out of your actions that way. But that was made possible by people who spent money on this game regularly. Next time, try and filter your thoughts before you spew it out like a dump truck.
Apparently it's not being paid for by people if the devs are saying the mech packs aren't sustaining them.

#8 4rcs1ne

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:13 PM

It's truly saddening to me to see the game in the state that it's in. This game has given me more enjoyment and pleasure over the past 5+ years than any other game.

If Russ hadn't been hell bent on a barrage of mech packs, and instead focused on developing the game and its gameplay, things could've taken a very different turn. This game could've been like WoW or Eve online in terms of longevity. They should've taken notes from the Warframe devs or any of the aforementioned games, but PGI's stubbornness has resulted in MWO's demise.

All I can do is hope they incorporate PvP into MW5 someday. Posted Image

Edited by Matt2496, 01 June 2019 - 07:16 PM.


#9 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:20 PM

View PostCuddlyZebesian, on 01 June 2019 - 07:10 PM, said:

Apparently it's not being paid for by people if the devs are saying the mech packs aren't sustaining them.


Apparently, it is, or was. You can stretch the good will of people for only so long before frustration kicks in. If you watched the Dev Update video, you'd know that they were talking about Mech Packs not being a sustainable model for a variety of things and this has started to happen since a year or so again. So, it was good early on. Besides, the Mech Packs not being sold a lot is is due to variety of reasons like "uninteresting", "bad quirks", "not what we wanted atm", etc.,

Again, like I said, try to filter your thoughts before you post. You could've easily seen this reply coming to show you that you're misinformed on a variety of things.

#10 Thiccacuga

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:29 PM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 01 June 2019 - 07:20 PM, said:


Apparently, it is, or was. You can stretch the good will of people for only so long before frustration kicks in. If you watched the Dev Update video, you'd know that they were talking about Mech Packs not being a sustainable model for a variety of things and this has started to happen since a year or so again. So, it was good early on. Besides, the Mech Packs not being sold a lot is is due to variety of reasons like "uninteresting", "bad quirks", "not what we wanted atm", etc.,

Again, like I said, try to filter your thoughts before you post. You could've easily seen this reply coming to show you that you're misinformed on a variety of things.
Ironically talking down to me like I never seen this sort of thing happen in any f2p game shows insecurities and ignorance.

Next thing you'll wanna mention my tier :^)

#11 John Bronco

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:30 PM

I'd recommend reducing your emotional investment.

#12 Xetelian

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:32 PM

View PostCuddlyZebesian, on 01 June 2019 - 07:10 PM, said:

Apparently it's not being paid for by people if the devs are saying the mech packs aren't sustaining them.


What loosely defines a type of insanity?

Doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting different results.

If mechpacks aren't generating revenue, DO SOMETHING ELSE?!


We been asking for YEARS to be able to purchase mechs individually from these packs, Especially if its an omni-mech. I shouldn't need to spend 20$ for 3 mechs and 15$ for a hero if they're omni mechs and I only want the 30% cBill boosted mech with the fancy paint scheme. Why does it take a year or so for the hero to come out for MC and then at the nearest holiday sale go for 50% off so I spend like 7$ on it instead of 35$?


Wargaming has been out performing MWO since before MWO was a thing.


Cost vs Value.... It takes money to art/design/implement these new mechs, they aren't selling enough of them to cover the cost of implementation and design. So WHY haven't they tried something else?

I would assume the vast majority of people don't buy packs because they WILL be out for MC and cBills in a year and I assume its also because packs aren't a good value.

Firstly, we no longer need 3 mechs to max out our skills, therefore why do we still use the 3 mech model.

Second why does the collectors edition come with a 4th mech that has a 30% cBill bonus version of the First mech in the pack and not the mech of your choice? I bought the collectors pack for the KDK and would rather that 30% bonus go on the KDK 3 than the KDK 1 which is hot garbage.

Why are we living in the past when we could be monetizing like mad in the future?

Why are there MC consumables that I assume no one uses?

Why does the the skill tree allow you to bring 4 consumables? You even fight in group queue where they have a team with 2 cool shots and 2 strikes and you're at the end of every timer getting another strike on you? Thank god for the timer but still it aggravates me to no end getting bombarded all the damn time when I join group queue. There is a reason ALL the good teams use a fully kitted out consumable tree. 2 UAVs for a light mech can make them extremely useful even if they don't have much firepower.



I have bought

Founds pack
Phoenix pack
Wave 2
Wave 3
Steam pack assault 1
Steam pack Heavy 1
Steam pack heavy 2
+100$ of MC
KDK collectors pack
MCII pack with hero
NSR pack


I own 40-50 paint colors, 3 whites 5 reds, 4 blues, Pink, Purple 3 or 4 blacks. Ect.
I own camo on a few mechs, not single shots, full camo.
It was the NSR pack that broke me, I couldn't enjoy them and would have refunded them if I wasn't also supporting the game, but since the NSR came out so awful I haven't bought a pack since.I have 136 mechs, Almost 2/3 of them are cBill purchases and not real money purchases.

Where did my $500+ go? Look at all the founders tags on this forum. Look at all the tags in general, most people have spent money on this game on this forum. The people posting here often are passionate and support the game even with all its flaws.


The CEO just came and took a huge dump on all of us.

Edited by Xetelian, 01 June 2019 - 08:56 PM.


#13 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:43 PM

View PostCuddlyZebesian, on 01 June 2019 - 07:29 PM, said:

Ironically talking down to me like I never seen this sort of thing happen in any f2p game shows insecurities and ignorance.

Next thing you'll wanna mention my tier :^)


I don't see why I should apologize for your lack of understanding and trolling. If you didn't do it in the first place, we might have had a decent and constructive conversation. Instead, there you went and now are playing the victim card. Now you mentioning that I have insecurities and what-not shows, with a shadow of a doubt, that you've been found wanting in the grey matter department. And no, Tier system in MWO is a joke. Everyone knows that. Why bother using that as a measure of someone's skill or understanding? The fact that you mentioned Tier as some sort of a measure CLEARLY shows and proves what I've been saying about you.

#14 FupDup

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:46 PM

Definitely agree on the ability to pick-and-choose how many variants we want. If Pea Gee Eye is super worried about people only buying 1 or 2 variants then they should for one thing do a better job at making all variants usable, then also make it so people get discounts for buying in bulk and extra goodies like premium time, GXP, whatever for buying all the variants.

And frankly even if people did only buy 1 or 2 variants that would probably result in more money than they're currently getting, since Russ claimed that most mech packs haven't been financially successful anyways. Right now the mech pack model is all or nothing, and it would seem a lot of the player base chose to buy nothing.

#15 Xetelian

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:55 PM

View PostFupDup, on 01 June 2019 - 07:46 PM, said:

Definitely agree on the ability to pick-and-choose how many variants we want. If Pea Gee Eye is super worried about people only buying 1 or 2 variants then they should for one thing do a better job at making all variants usable, then also make it so people get discounts for buying in bulk and extra goodies like premium time, GXP, whatever for buying all the variants.

And frankly even if people did only buy 1 or 2 variants that would probably result in more money than they're currently getting, since Russ claimed that most mech packs haven't been financially successful anyways. Right now the mech pack model is all or nothing, and it would seem a lot of the player base chose to buy nothing.



I stopped buying packs with the Nightstar. I didn't know it had goddamn hand actuators...I thought I was going to get an IS equivlant to the Deathstrike and I was super excited.

Then it came out and I was like "WTF? why are the points low, high, mid, on the ST lasers? and what? I can't fit 2 lasers and a guass in the arm? ARRRRGH"

I would have refunded but I'm an idiot and leveled them up anyway.

I would have bought the PIR pack because I knew it would be awesome but I didn't want to give any more money because I felt so burned.


PGI sells people bad mechs without good enough quirks or enough hard point inflation and wonders why people don't want to buy.

#16 RickySpanish

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 07:55 PM

View PostCuddlyZebesian, on 01 June 2019 - 06:38 PM, said:

Geez you guys really got dat head up your butts in the forums huh?


Yes they're so far up there it's a wonder they can't smell what they're shoveling. The entitlement on these forums is god damned insane, these guys actually think their opinions and bad gameplay mechanic ideas are worth something, yet not only do they not pick up UE and try for themselves, they continue to drop cash on this game anyway. The Sub-Reddit is even worse, if you can actually believe that.

#17 Xetelian

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 08:04 PM

View PostRickySpanish, on 01 June 2019 - 07:55 PM, said:

Yes they're so far up there it's a wonder they can't smell what they're shoveling. The entitlement on these forums is god damned insane, these guys actually think their opinions and bad gameplay mechanic ideas are worth something, yet not only do they not pick up UE and try for themselves, they continue to drop cash on this game anyway. The Sub-Reddit is even worse, if you can actually believe that.



Could you elaborate? We're trying to have a discussion here. Simply saying that we have our collective heads up our collective butts isn't much of a conversation starter or on topic.


You're a veteran founder, we helped fund this game, together we made it happen.


Now the CEO is coming out and saying that MWO is dead and his crew is working on MW5.

All I did was list the years and years of horrible decisions.


Why are we still buying mechs in packs of 3 if they aren't selling and we don't need 3 of them to level up?

Who is at fault for that? Russ? Because it wasn't me that said "Please kind sir, sell me 3 mechs at a time, I like having variants I'll never use cluttering up my mech selection."

#18 WarHippy

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 08:53 PM

View PostXetelian, on 01 June 2019 - 08:04 PM, said:



Could you elaborate? We're trying to have a discussion here. Simply saying that we have our collective heads up our collective butts isn't much of a conversation starter or on topic.


You're a veteran founder, we helped fund this game, together we made it happen.


Now the CEO is coming out and saying that MWO is dead and his crew is working on MW5.

All I did was list the years and years of horrible decisions.


Why are we still buying mechs in packs of 3 if they aren't selling and we don't need 3 of them to level up?

Who is at fault for that? Russ? Because it wasn't me that said "Please kind sir, sell me 3 mechs at a time, I like having variants I'll never use cluttering up my mech selection."

To be fair you are both not wrong. Its true PGI has made a lot of mistakes, but it also true that you seem to have your head shoved rather firmly up your rear end. If this is truly the end so be it. We had seven years of giant stompy robots, and while it would have been nice for things to have lasted longer and been done better what we got wasn't exactly all bad either. It is what it is.

#19 RickySpanish

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 08:58 PM

He was being honest, that's a rarity in this industry. Mech packs probably aren't selling because of the lower population. The cost of making mech packs probably isn't a great deal more expensive with one vs three variants. MW5 was always the end goal of PGI, if you look at their early concept video they were always aiming for a single player campaign.

When I dropped cash on this game as a founder, I was funding the idea that Battletech might live on, not necessarily that MWO would continue forever. I always wanted to see a single player Mechwarrior again, and the fact that PGI are actually making it moddable speaks volumes, that as well is rather rare among games these days.

As for people's conduct here ok fair enough, you have been perfectly polite. However I think by and large there has been some rather personal hostility directed at the developers which is out of order. On OutrageHPG for example people repeatedly mention Russ's personal life, and let's not forget the "omg Russ shoved a child" debacle.

A few years ago I watched the studio a friend of mine had founded that I worked at finally close its doors. He and I built the prototype that eventually got us funded, and he managed to keep things running for a decade. In that time we managed to produce some very neat games, including one in particular for children who were ill. Sadly, two of our big clients went **** up more or less at the same time, and after that we struggled for a while. I remember some rather odious comments from people not only on the dev team, but also from other businesses criticizing the way the studio had been run. However they themselves had never lifted a finger to attempt to pursue their goals, they were just happy to **** on someone elses misery. So, I do rather understand how regretful it would be for PGI to suffer the loss of this game, and that being forthrite with the so called fans of MWO probably took bigger balls than most of them will ever see.

Edited by RickySpanish, 01 June 2019 - 09:10 PM.


#20 Thiccacuga

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 09:21 PM

Thank god SOMEONE was able to bluntly put out what is really going on instead of trolling about "le srs discuss" to shut down opinions.





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