96 replies to this topic

[Horseman]

Asym, on 13 June 2019 - 06:54 PM, said:

No, never even implied that.

You did imply it, more than once.
Look, mate... first you claimed winning is toxic, now you're switching gears to player attitude? Make up your mind.
From my own experience, I haven't seen anywhere near what you're describing. Then again, have you considered that the issue might not be the attitude they bring in but rather the one you do and the reactions it causes?

Dimento Graven, on 14 June 2019 - 09:44 AM, said:

LOL, I love that pic, and I'm pretty damned sure it's from Empyrion - Galactic Survival (another game I love)...

Space Engineers, the paneling on the armor is pretty distinct.

[LTC Kilgore]

Nightbird, on 11 June 2019 - 11:27 AM, said:

A little too late in the game when the CEO of PGI already declared the game EOL (end of life)

Exactly. PGI isn't going to invest anything (resources or money) into MWO anymore. Just get use to all the problems that MWO has, because they're never getting fixed.

[Half Ear]

Corbon Zackery, on 14 June 2019 - 06:52 AM, said:

....

Even with the Russ news were still 4,000 a day strong.

The issue is after 7 years PGI can't just rely on MechWarrior online for revenue. So full team production is now on MechWarrior 5. A small team of 5 people are running MWO for the next 6 months they are focusing most of that time on community warfare patches.

Once MechWarrior 5 is released then PGI can look at options.

• Do we go back to MWO or do we do DCL Faction content for MechWarrior 5
  
• Do we shift now to Areotech.
  
• PGI wants to get into the MMO market MechWarrior RPG might be the way to do it.
  
• They also could do a partnership with Harebrained Schemes to use the Shadowrun turn based system to produce a single story MechWarrior RPG.

A lot of options they need MechWarrior 5 to be the golden nugget that they can build off of.

MW5 could help boost MWO.

MW5 will be a single player PVE...with an available a coop mode... but how many MWO players actually are/were part of a unit and had stable play times...? That calls for some social networking to make that happen. Someone can get their close friend/family involved, complete it than want to try for something more, more ... challenging...what is the next step in this universe??!!

MWO?!?!? They will be opened for a rude awakening. Current Tier/PSR/MM setup is simply there, it is not adequate enough and definitely not in a good position, as well as how Quick Play has a complete separation of grouped and solo players. Faction Play has them all involved but that is a different story.

Lets start with PSR/Tier/MM. Does it require a complete rewrite or serious tweak what is in place?

• Serious Tweaks
  
• Realignment by seeding players with by using last 6-12 month averages
  
• For seeding, a player would not be eligible to be moved to bottom tier nor top tier, a bell curve
  
• Keep 5 tiers or should it be expanded a little..
  
• PSR itself. If on a win if there is to be no lose/neg movement, raise the no change from 100 MS to 175-200 MS
  
• MM - use of Tier(s) + avg MS over last 250-500 games

Keep two Quickplay setup, one primarily solo and one primarily group

• Solo player drops in primarily solo queue while having ability to opt in to be included in Group queue (max 3 Solo per team). Opt in for group does not opt them out of solo
  
• Dual group only - Ability to opt in the primarily solo queue but cannot opt out of group queue. (players at mercy of MM selection)
  
  • Uses higher player's Tier/MS
    
  • Only one dual group/ team
    
  • Dual players locked out of other games when d/c-die early until the current match is over. Prevention of dual group not liking that they were selected for group queue instead of solo queue.
    
  • OR... triple dual player's penalties on d/c, even if they disband in an attempt to work around the penalties/delays.

Now take Faction Play in its current working form, it could be seen as being worked into the PVP version of MW5 storyboard. Since PGI was not and had not been able to bring to fruition its original design, the one that helped fund MWO at the beginning, they are approaching it from a different angle. The failure of the original concept is that 99% of it was delayed and/or was never actually coded. Nor where the Quickplay queues setup adequately enough to actually feed FP. A group-centric game which requires communication lacked an integrated VOIP until a few months after FP when live, several years after the base game went public.

Edited by Half Ear, 16 June 2019 - 08:13 AM.

[Strength Damage Cliff Racer]

The real problem here is that devs started to split things up when playerbase wasn't even all that big.
Yes, players wanted Faction play. Yes, players wanted Solaris. Ta-ta, not only you have split servers for EU/Murrica/Aussies, but you got 3 modes plus matchmaking on top, murdering wait times and forcing players to leave because they can do the laundry, cook for the whole week, poop and eat while waiting for it. Game is literally 50/50 on wait/action times.
Diversity is good, but it only works with big numbers.

[Spheroid]

Strength Damage Cliff Racer, on 16 June 2019 - 08:33 AM, said:

Yes, players wanted Solaris.

Who?

[Nightbird]

There were people that wants Solaris. What they didn't want where the skilled players that they'd have to face. *shru

Edited by Nightbird, 16 June 2019 - 09:25 AM.

[Half Ear]

Nightbird, on 16 June 2019 - 09:08 AM, said:

There were people that wants Solaris. What they didn't want where the skilled players that they'd have to face. *shru

And also where one of the options would have been a Free For All 4-6-12 Death Royale.

[Go-NoGo]

LTC Kilgore, on 16 June 2019 - 07:05 AM, said:

Exactly. PGI isn't going to invest anything (resources or money) into MWO anymore. Just get use to all the problems that MWO has, because they're never getting fixed.

Agreed --and sadly so. When PGI says it is only a matter of time, citing below-sustainable sales to monthly Mech Packs (the 'big' money-maker products) then essentially it is PGI pulling the plug, albeit with warning upfront & pulling the cord ever so slowly.

But make no mistake: PGI has stated that they're resource-poor, that their relied-upon income (in the form of new Mech Packs) will be now be on a much longer interval than the standard monthly releases, and express hope that the servers don't ever completely "go down," and any business that quits supplying the products that make the business its income... well, that's a slow business suicide.

I'm sad to hear these things from PGI in such a stark way. But the game is --and always was-- in flux. In flux with game-play balance, matchmaker, new/unwanted/undelivered play-modes that feel so utterly disconnected from each other as to give the feeling of being 2-3 separate games completely (and a couple of game-modes that were never truly sought by the player-base) and, last, the stillborn Faction Warfare.

I wanted a huge star-map, mercs and house units duking it out for dynamic control of planets for resources, perks, tech, and even with destroying/crippling those perks if your unit so chose, or if defeat and eviction was certain. I wanted that waaaay back when it was promised. I waited years for that promise to be kept.

I'm technically still waiting... except it is more of an occasional check-in to see new patch notes to decide if I reinstall. I uninstalled 6 months ago, finally, but I still very much dream it will come to pass...but with no budget for advertising, developing of their main cash-making products, or seemingly anything else, I understand the grim reality that it is effectively over.

And I am earnestly saddened.

[Dauntless Blint]

I think they should have made a PvE module so players that tend to get smashed due to Match Maker problems could still hang in longer in a hate to say it (safe space) Co-Op PvE campaign with procedurally generated maps.
One of a kind named weapons and build componants as the treasure.
All win together PvE holds a spot where possibly 50% of the player base is missing from the current numbers especially solo players.

Edited by Dauntless Blint, 16 June 2019 - 03:54 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Asym, on 14 June 2019 - 06:18 AM, said:

Jealous of what? It's a game ! And, a small niche game at that.... As I have said before, all we wanted were game that were challenging, fun and civil....... And yes, we played against all of the best players in this game and when our team saw specific players, we focused on them first ! They were that good !

What changed was a small group of players went too far with the concept of "winning and being GuD..." Those individual and a few organized teams went down the dark path and made the environment "just not fun anymore..." And, the game itself has an identity crisis at the same time that even further made the game "outright strange...."

The physical threats (and, they were reported), toxic language (again, reported to the game); and in game play massively digressing with nerf'd systems, drove us and a lot more out-of-this-game..... Gone, in less than a year. Less than a year.....after playing the same game for several....

So, you are free to call me whatever names you want, it's really OK....... But, wouldn't you really want the 80 or so players that were on the teams I participated with back in the game more??? We were not alone; and, it's 80 times x.....now, it's a shell waiting for another game change (MW5) and we aren't buying that game until the reviews come in.....

I wish you good luck and good hunting !

You aprinkle around words like "dark path" and "toxic" but refuse to say exactly what this toxicity is. Why would a winning team threaten you with physical violence? Why is pgi's terrible nerfing history now the fault of these "toxic" players?

You're grasping at straws. Players who win aren't the bogeyman for all your woes. You're obviously jealous because despite saying it's just a game, you're obviously upset that people are winning more than yourself.

Here's something i've noticed that also applies to real life like work - salt seldom comes from the people at the top. Salt always comes from the people who peaked on the bottom rungs.

[Horseman]

Nightbird, on 16 June 2019 - 09:08 AM, said:

There were people that wants Solaris. What they didn't want where the skilled players that they'd have to face. *shru

Amen. It's a real pity, though, because the mode is genuinely fun if you get into the mindset.

Edited by Horseman, 16 June 2019 - 10:21 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Horseman, on 16 June 2019 - 10:20 PM, said:

Amen. It's a real pity, though, because the mode is genuinely fun if you get into the mindset.

It waa only fun for a few games for me. After that, it kinda got repetitive.

I think pgi screwed the pooch on solaris because they didn't really understand their target audience. A bunch of forum mechdads wanted solaris as a solution to their woes in qp - getting left behind in fat assaults. They wanted their big stompy robot action and solaris could have been what they were looking for. Unfortunately, you don't get a team to carry you in solaris which means the mechdads started getting the very rude wake up call that they simply weren't as good as they insisted they were. A zero sum psr made it even more obvious.

So they left that mode in droves.

There's a few names on this thread itself that fall into the category of players i just described. Too bad name and shame is frowned upon.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

procedual Terrain brings more Problems as Fun without long Experience and has many problems today in the most Games and not the holy Solution and a lot more Problems for PVP (and by Mapbuilding-no streets ,no Rivers , no Placement of Bridges, Spawns in over/in/underTerrain or impassable Terrain, floating objects, Objetives under terrain)..AI can not create a Mona lisa

https://www.gamasutr...in_Overland.php
https://www.thumbsti...ral-generation/

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 17 June 2019 - 06:34 PM.

[Asym]

Horseman, on 16 June 2019 - 03:49 AM, said:

You did imply it, more than once.
Look, mate... first you claimed winning is toxic, now you're switching gears to player attitude? Make up your mind.
From my own experience, I haven't seen anywhere near what you're describing. Then again, have you considered that the issue might not be the attitude they bring in but rather the one you do and the reactions it causes?
Space Engineers, the paneling on the armor is pretty distinct.

Meritocracies create toxic behaviors in a lot of video games ! Not just here. Winning at all cost: is, a lot of "cost".... I don't "bring" anything into the game.... I play the game and very rarely even speak on coms.... I did that for a living in a previous life and I "just play......." And yes, as a fact, a great many of us talked about where we were as a team in 2017.... And, the conclusion was that "it was time to give the game up for Lent...." And, I volunteered to stay and, here I am..... The second team I was on was deeply committed to Faction Play...... The environment got so bad, every night having to report behaviors from obnoxious to threats.......and, we had a team meeting and decided, again for me, to discontinue play.......and, they did.

Horseman, that was 80 players........not just me.... Eighty +/- decided the environment was too much to take....it ceased to be any fun for us. Now, you may have had a great time and more power to you ! But, the reality is that the game, driven by massive changes and new incentives (e-Sports?) and quests for individual "greatness", imploded the player base.... Even in the comp que, where there were made up teams and I played, it was so toxic that total strangers rage quit...... It's not me....

Good luck and have fun..........maybe, one day, we'll cross paths in an event !

[Feral Clown]

Khobai, on 11 June 2019 - 10:59 AM, said:

it absolutely is a fact. countless new players have quit the game because of the toxic state of group queue. many people here have recounted stories about not being able to get friends to keep playing the game. that has been my experience as well.

does that mean all teams are toxic? no of course not. but there is enough toxicity among groups that the overall environment of group queue has become toxic.

its not friendly to new/casual players at all or conducive to retaining new/casual players with the ultimate goal of converting them to paid players. The current state of group queue is simply not helping the game.

to that end the only real fix is to implement a working matchmaker. and since that would create more buckets you also have to allow solo players in group queue to help mitigate the problem of having more buckets.

What toxic state would that be? Getting beat all of the time? You saying something is a fact or a few anecdotal stories on the brown sea doesn't make it fact. Especially when a good deal of those screaming toxic, are angry about losing repeatedly and doing nothing to change that.

[Phoenix 72]

Well, I thought about this topic for a while and I think you if you do want to save / grow this game, I think there should be a different approach than what most of the people here suggest. What most people in this discussion say is their own personal opinion on what is wrong with the game. And while I actually agree with most of them, we are not the target audience, because we are already playing / were playing for a very long time. If PGI wants to do something, they need to come from the direction, what does the customer want. That's not us. That's the 980K people that stopped playing. And the millions of people that never even tried MWO.

So I suggest for PGI to try and find out what the customer wants, since they obviously have no idea whatsoever.

They could send every single registered account an e-mail survey in the vein of "We miss you. What would make you come back?". And then actually work on whatever the majority of people proposed. I think that due to the fact so few people in PGI actually play their own game, they obviously lost touch with their player base. That should be the mistake to remedy. And then they can work on the features that their target audience wants, once they have information, facts and not random opinions. Even if that ends up driving us away.

[Yiryi-Sa]

Dimento Graven, on 11 June 2019 - 12:28 PM, said:

LOL, if those players have problems with the level of toxicity in this game. I'm pretty damn sure they shouldn't be allowed ANYWHERE on the internet, besides maybe various kids games like, hell I can't even remember the name it's so long, Wizards101, that's it, and there was no VOIP and the word filtering in text chat was EXTREMELY filtered.

On THAT game, MAYBE they'd avoid toxicity.

Frankly, since you can turn off VOIP and never turn on text chat, I find the "toxicity" excuse people use as just that, an excuse.

Just because toxicity is everywhere does not mean it should be accepted or normalized, and other's concerns to be minimized.