79 replies to this topic

[Akira Shindeiru]

The developers don't want to save the game. I am honestly quite scared for MW5, but we will see.
I enjoyed the game way more in closed beta than at any point beyond that.
Afterwards it was just a total mess of lies, cash grabs and disappointments.

[MrMadguy]

Getting rid of crap like one, that has just happened with me - 5 losses in 5 matches in a row. And pure wins aren't needed too, as carrying is evil. Personal performance should be at proper level too. Devs are just stupid. They launch event to bring players back to this game. I've returned. And what waits for me here? Losses, losses, losses? To be just a food for Tier 1 guys? Go to hell, PGI.

Edited by MrMadguy, 28 June 2019 - 09:57 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

MrMadguy, on 28 June 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

Getting rid of crap like one, that has just happened with me - 5 losses in 5 matches in a row. And pure wins aren't needed too, as carrying is evil. Personal performance should be at proper level too. Devs are just stupid. They launch event to bring players back to this game. I've returned. And what waits for me here? Losses, losses, losses? To be just a food for Tier 1 guys? Go to hell, PGI.

I agree. Since PSR/tracking went live a player who has an avg 195 MS but have moved into Tier 2 or Tier 1. Likely a little higher MS avg if calculated from the last 500 games. Then dropping with and against players with 300+ avg MS would make for an unpleasant experience if it was just 50% of the time. And this is why the MM needs to use more than simply Tier level/wtg class, it should also utilize at least an average MS over the last 500 games And Tier level usage should not get the seeded player's current Tier level but also within one level before opening up.

Exceptions. A seeded Tier 5 would only have Tier 5-4 players in it. Once a player has left Tier 5 said player can not regress back into Tier 5.

If the above was done then PGI should also attempt to reseed players along the bell curve while modifying the PSR threshold levels for up/down movement with a more difficult thresholds. If PGI thought that would make some players unhappy.. ie I just reached T1 but gets dropped back into T2 or T3, then just modify the stats MM uses while upping the PSR thresholds.

[thievingmagpi]

lights and mediums doing under 100 damage, 2 minute penalty

heavies and assaults doing under 200 damage, 2 minute penalty

the next penalty is 5 mins, and so forth.

[lovely-alfajores-0acb13]

thievingmagpi, on 28 June 2019 - 06:30 PM, said:

lights and mediums doing under 100 damage, 2 minute penalty

heavies and assaults doing under 200 damage, 2 minute penalty

the next penalty is 5 mins, and so forth.

You realize how many Mechdads would be practically “banned” for failing to reach those numbers over and over again?


I like this idea. MAKE IT HAPPEN PGI!

[MrMadguy]

Tarl Cabot, on 28 June 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

I agree. Since PSR/tracking went live a player who has an avg 195 MS but have moved into Tier 2 or Tier 1. Likely a little higher MS avg if calculated from the last 500 games. Then dropping with and against players with 300+ avg MS would make for an unpleasant experience if it was just 50% of the time. And this is why the MM needs to use more than simply Tier level/wtg class, it should also utilize at least an average MS over the last 500 games And Tier level usage should not get the seeded player's current Tier level but also within one level before opening up.

Exceptions. A seeded Tier 5 would only have Tier 5-4 players in it. Once a player has left Tier 5 said player can not regress back into Tier 5.

If the above was done then PGI should also attempt to reseed players along the bell curve while modifying the PSR threshold levels for up/down movement with a more difficult thresholds. If PGI thought that would make some players unhappy.. ie I just reached T1 but gets dropped back into T2 or T3, then just modify the stats MM uses while upping the PSR thresholds.

Loot bag event usually implies large amount of players, coming back to game to do it. It increases population and overall quality of matches. But how can I return to game to do this event, if at EU prime time, i.e. evening, quality of matches are so low, that I couldn't win even one match of 5-7 in a row. Yeah, I played 7 matches and stopped playing then. Because you know what? When people vote for River City, when Mining is available, you already know two things: 1) Half of players are completed noobs 2) This half is always in your team. And yeah, result was obvious. It was 0:8, when I died and quit this match. And you know, I've bought Blood Asp on last sale. It's on a par with Dire Wolf or even better due to high hardpoints and ECM. Yeah, in some matches I could deal 400-500 dmg, despite of losing. But around 50% matches were just complete stomps, when I barely managed to fit into required 80MS, i.e. dealt around 100-120 dmg. This is just terrible matchmaking.

Edited by MrMadguy, 28 June 2019 - 07:35 PM.

[MrMadguy]

Thanks PGI for so great game.

[Tarl Cabot]

MrMadguy, on 29 June 2019 - 02:36 AM, said:

Thanks PGI for so great game.

Sorry to say but should reconsider not utilizing your current assault line up.. 1-15 Assaults vs 9-7 in heavies with a higher avg MS. Current PSR/MM setup is only part of the equation, a player also needs to acknowledge and change a part of the equation when it is not working.

[MrMadguy]

Tarl Cabot, on 29 June 2019 - 02:48 AM, said:

Sorry to say but should reconsider not utilizing your current assault line up.. 1-15 Assaults vs 9-7 in heavies with a higher avg MS. Current PSR/MM setup is only part of the equation, a player also needs to acknowledge and change a part of the equation when it is not working.

Yeah, this is second major reason, why this game dies. Because I've bought new 'Mech and WANT TO PLAY IT. But some crappy balance issues say me, that lighter 'Mechs are OP in this game, so I'd better play some no-brain Piranha or something. Why would I spend real money on buying new 'Mechs, if I would be unable to play them, so they would just collect dust in their mechbays?

[Tarl Cabot]

If an assault is being taken out by lights, is that assault by themselves, trying to sniper/lrm, out of position due to being AFK at the start of the drop, being the slowest mech, lack of communication/direction and rest of the team has nascar away from said assault at start of game, sucky spawn location due to charlie lance spawn locations on a few maps for one team which exasperates all of the above, among other things?

There are many things that the player has no control over, while the other items are under a players control, if said player(s) utilizes them. Dropping in my T-2 alt account, effective communicating enhances everything, especially when the other side has scattered all over the place. Watched 2 lights w/fast med take out 3 assault mechs who were by themselves. In the wild it is the stragglers or separated individuals that die first.

If an assault player is not able to keep up with the team or encourage most of the team to keep pace with them while heading for a specific navpoint, then at that moment where does the fault really lie? The player and his/her teammates. There is no game MM that can fix that issue for a drop. The only other option left would be having players create and team up before each drop.....Then the douchebag in the Direwolf who will not follow directions, etc (too many choice words to use) is then kicked after the drop has ended /put on a do not use list.. How about that? Many players though want to put in the minimum amount of work and do not give a rat's *** about anyone else.

What to do? MW5 will be PVE...with co-op, which means players will actually have to communicate to get hooked up...but then all the drops will be PVE, not against an actual human, whether it is someone like themselves, an elite or greenhorn...

/shrugs breakfast time!!!!!!!!

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 29 June 2019 - 02:10 PM.

[GuardDogg]

Anjian, on 28 June 2019 - 05:51 AM, said:

You think people who play these games are children?

Better angle of cheat on the enemy? The red guys also have the same angle on you, so there is no difference there.

I find that many of those who play these war games are as hard core and as knowledgeable on their subjects, and they include people who are often ex-military. Maybe you should go tell them they're children face to face.

Do you want to know how a tank or a ship will be in first person view?

If I ever see a game like this (external/Childrens view). I would definitely wouldn't install, play on my computer. People demand realism. And many adults do not want to play in the same sandbox with children. Ever hear MWO pilots on headphones/chat? You do not hear a child under 20 years old. Many demand realism, but when it comes to gameplay, it is not realism. Like Battefield games from EA. Ever seen those helis pointing straight down, rotating getting massive kills? Yeah, that is their realism to the players who like fast paced fps. And running to one side of map to other in 5 minutes? Real life you can not do that. Why Operation flash point was awesome in the first game, until until, Bohemia Interactive Studio/Codemasters split up. They brought realism, although their was a long way to go. They are still working on realism. Not running around like chicken heads cut off, bunny hopping, getting kills like crazy. Graphics is their, but the game play. OMG, try to keep up. MWO has headed that way as well. "Run to center, push, theta only, fight first cap later, and I have seen that bunny hopper, but it fails, and now it is the Nascar problem, along with domination gametype". 3rd person is a cheat to see around corners, above hills. I seen that 3rd person camera behind a hill and other. Ever watch DCS world? Their is never 3rd person air to air combat. All simulation, cockpit view with lots going on. Realism at best. Hope for a Battletech simulation that can pull this off like DCS and walk around mech bays. Do not think will happen in my time. Do not think any will pull that off.

Operation Flashpoint, if only Mechwarrior can make something like this with infantry and tactical is made up, used.

Edited by GuardDogg, 29 June 2019 - 01:39 PM.

[Asylum Choir]

Kotzi, on 18 June 2019 - 01:44 AM, said:

An enjoyable game. I guess buying stuff is not really a substitute for content, real content. Well people will buy stuff if they enjoy themselves but roughly 6 years of same ol same broke my spirit.

MWO has roughly the same content as Wot.

WOT advertises a lot.
WOt has a playerbase that does teamwork and social play.

[Asylum Choir]

MrMadguy, on 28 June 2019 - 07:34 PM, said:

Loot bag event usually implies large amount of players, coming back to game to do it. It increases population and overall quality of matches. But how can I return to game to do this event, if at EU prime time, i.e. evening, quality of matches are so low, that I couldn't win even one match of 5-7 in a row. Yeah, I played 7 matches and stopped playing then. Because you know what? When people vote for River City, when Mining is available, you already know two things: 1) Half of players are completed noobs 2) This half is always in your team. And yeah, result was obvious. It was 0:8, when I died and quit this match. And you know, I've bought Blood Asp on last sale. It's on a par with Dire Wolf or even better due to high hardpoints and ECM. Yeah, in some matches I could deal 400-500 dmg, despite of losing. But around 50% matches were just complete stomps, when I barely managed to fit into required 80MS, i.e. dealt around 100-120 dmg. This is just terrible matchmaking.

Funny you complain about losing mostly, yet tonight I've won every game bar 2. Maybe it isn't purely the mm?

[Koniving]

A rampant map initiative, pumping out maps like MWO once pumped out maps. I'm quite certain you'll see purchases escalate.

Though there's the fear the game may shut its ongoing doors after 2020.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

A different developer...

I play MWO because it is Battletech, but have stopped spending ANY money on PGI. Unless there is a drastic and rigorous movement on PGI's part on development (highly doubtful) I doubt I will spend any money on this game during the rest of its lifecycle.

Edited by Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-, 29 June 2019 - 06:01 PM.

[General Solo]

Bro its an old game and after 50K games it has to arise like the phoenix to get much of my attention
so maybe
Let it go , Let it all go

MWO had a good run and continues on
Untill it doesnt, its gonna end some time, just not tommorrow.

Who knows if MW5 is a success Russ might buy a bigger boat or possibly invest in MWO2.0
Guess we ll see.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 30 June 2019 - 06:06 AM.

[Anjian]

GuardDogg, on 29 June 2019 - 01:13 PM, said:

If I ever see a game like this (external/Childrens view). I would definitely wouldn't install, play on my computer. People demand realism. And many adults do not want to play in the same sandbox with children. Ever hear MWO pilots on headphones/chat? You do not hear a child under 20 years old. Many demand realism, but when it comes to gameplay, it is not realism. Like Battefield games from EA. Ever seen those helis pointing straight down, rotating getting massive kills? Yeah, that is their realism to the players who like fast paced fps. And running to one side of map to other in 5 minutes? Real life you can not do that. Why Operation flash point was awesome in the first game, until until, Bohemia Interactive Studio/Codemasters split up. They brought realism, although their was a long way to go. They are still working on realism. Not running around like chicken heads cut off, bunny hopping, getting kills like crazy. Graphics is their, but the game play. OMG, try to keep up. MWO has headed that way as well. "Run to center, push, theta only, fight first cap later, and I have seen that bunny hopper, but it fails, and now it is the Nascar problem, along with domination gametype". 3rd person is a cheat to see around corners, above hills. I seen that 3rd person camera behind a hill and other. Ever watch DCS world? Their is never 3rd person air to air combat. All simulation, cockpit view with lots going on. Realism at best. Hope for a Battletech simulation that can pull this off like DCS and walk around mech bays. Do not think will happen in my time. Do not think any will pull that off.

Operation Flashpoint, if only Mechwarrior can make something like this with infantry and tactical is made up, used.

You seem to have no idea that the commentator in the World of Warships video happens to be ex-Royal Navy

Ever seen a game called Cold Waters?



The guy commentating on this video is Ex-US Navy, and yes, a submariner. This is a sub sim. Is that in third person?

Battletech does not matter if its third person or first person view. Because it is a freaking fantasy. No freaking real mech should have a glass cockpit where its easy to pull a headshot and kill a pilot. The big difference between DCS and MWO is that DCS is modeled on reality, and MWO is modeled on fantasy. Real simulator players would never look at MWO because its not based on real things in the first place and MWO does not attract that crowd.

For a game to be successful in the first place, it needs to know its real audience. And bingo, players of science fiction games --- which MWO falls into --- are heavily used to games with third person FOVs with a highly strategic atmosphere.

Go watch all the PC Battletech games. Its all in third person.

Third person gives an element of strategic and tactical play that first person does not generate. That's why all strategy games are in third person.

Players looking for realism will never look at a robot or mech game. But players of fantasy and science fiction will, and these players are used to 3rd person FOV and playing more strategically.

Comparing MWO to DCS is absolutely ridiculous because cockpit instrumentation in DCS happens to provide vital information for piloting and the behavior of instrumental data is meant to mimic real cockpits. Is that a real cockpit in your mech, or just decoration with plenty of phony switches and dials?

Edited by Anjian, 30 June 2019 - 06:33 AM.

[Anjian]

Quote

Ever hear MWO pilots on headphones/chat? You do not hear a child under 20 years old.

I have heard kids yes. The behavior of many pilots in the field, also don't seem like adults, or at least being adult in their heads.

This guy commentating this game with a third person FOV is Ex-Royal Navy.



And the guy behind this video is Ex-USN.




Do people want MWO to be realistic? No. There is completely nothing realistic about a mech anyway and most players seeking realism would avoid MWO with a ten foot pole. MWO is simply not a game for players seeking realism, right from the get go there are a lot of things in MWO or Mechwarrior that don't make sense.

Edited by Anjian, 30 June 2019 - 06:46 AM.

[Asym]

Anjian, on 30 June 2019 - 06:46 AM, said:

I have heard kids yes. The behavior of many pilots in the field, also don't seem like adults, or at least being adult in their heads.

This guy commentating this game with a third person FOV is Ex-Royal Navy.



And the guy behind this video is Ex-USN.




Do people want MWO to be realistic? No. There is completely nothing realistic about a mech anyway and most players seeking realism would avoid MWO with a ten foot pole. MWO is simply not a game for players seeking realism, right from the get go there are a lot of things in MWO or Mechwarrior that don't make sense.

I'm ex Army and spent a lot of time in and with advanced SIMs...... I've written about that several times before and you can look those threads up if you like....

And, "realistic" has a value in games as it relates to demographics and the IP's lineage....... BT, the MW increments and MWO all share "expectations" and concepts of quality behaviors....

WoWs is a game I am playing this morning and their host is in the process of converting their entire franchise into a portable, e-Commerce and young adult FPS Arcade FFA game. It is fracturing the game's culture ! WHY??? Because video gaming is a 100 billion dollar a year business. It's why the EU and US Governments are getting involved with regulating their sales behaviors !!! They want a cut of the action..........

What you said is mostly true ! People want what the lineage of the IP culture has established.... They want what they know from the past...... They want those good and sometimes wonky times back....... The Soliloquy in Fields of Dreams by James Earl Jones says it best: "OH Ray, they will come....." IF, you stay true to what that culture "believes...."

[Asym]

Anjian, on 28 June 2019 - 06:00 AM, said:

Mechwarrior and Battletech is not a strongly identifiable IP in this day and age, unfortunately, not in the age. But we have seen many game rise and succeed from virtually zero IP identity... like Fortnite and PUBG. So IP recognition far from guarantees a game's success. Probably the most recognizable game IP is Pokemon and it has its share of forgotten and failed games.

What makes games successful and what makes them fail --- that's a study in progress. For example, despite the rising surge of Fortnite in 2018, it seems to be heading down in 2019. Apex Legends had a quick jump in early 2019, but a month later, players are leaving.

WoW is a game that is up and down, up and down, but its a survivor. Overwatch lost much of its glitter from the battle royale games, and the EA creep into Blizzard. Unfortunately for WoW and OW, Blizzard has seen better days.

We are students that study the history of gaming, but unfortunately, the writing of this history is far from finished to determine the Golden Formula of Game Success and Keeping it Successful.

Let's see, I worked at a University that teaches video game creation...... Ah, we have been using dozens of forums and professionally written articles for years to outline the "processes that drive innovation and customer satisfaction.." in this market. Looked at the military SIMs and where they are going...... Some of us were at the start of the gaming and SIM revolution and participated in the creation of these systems......Oh yes, we have those merit badges and some have the patents (my father is one of them......so, I've been at this for a long time.)

Look at HBS's and other's articles that focus on LoL...... Some really smart business concepts there.

But, the harsh reality is that "intuitive" gaming is the future. Self learning and AI driven, individually actuated game play is where the future is..... Some of the demo's I've commented on in other threads you should read because those games, are the future........

To quote a movie: "Oh Ray, they will come......"