73 replies to this topic

[Wil McCullough]

Prototelis, on 25 June 2019 - 01:49 PM, said:

I have a small laser to make pesky lights back up!

Ironically, this also has the same effect on the typical pub assault pilot. Lel.

[The6thMessenger]

Lykaon, on 26 June 2019 - 05:45 AM, said:

"here's the thing" I know how LRMs work and I know how poke and fade combatabts "hold locks" I just think many players who become offended by a request to "hold locks" jump to the worse possible interpretation of the request instead of seeing it as a simple notification that there may be additional supporting fire if you remember to hold a lock when you can.

Instead players jump off the rails and assume the LRM user is demanding you poke your face out in the open and stare down the enemy team so they can maybe fire two volleys off before you're smoked.

And as you said... "Sure, if someone said "hold locks pls", it could be just people reminding to lock, but chances are, with what we've seen, it's an incompetent background lurmer wanting to sit on their *** all day and lurm from the safety of their graves."

You also come to those conclusions.

You think me having those conclusions just agrees with you, but really it does not. It's just confirmation bias, that you're ignoring what I am actually saying.

Why people assume the worst? Because IDK, experience? Throw an apple -- sure you don't know that the laws of physics might change, but if time and time again it falls down, so why would you blame people if they disbelieve that it might float up instead?

Again, sure, chances are, you are just reminding them to use their locks, but then with just a lot of times that it's just lazy background lurmers that wanting to be parasites and thereby have bad experiences with the, and thus the negative reaction, why would we assume otherwise?

Lykaon, on 26 June 2019 - 05:45 AM, said:

And why would we instead follow the LRM player's idea of team work? Well let's break this down into bite sized portions for everyone.

Unless you are playing in a 12 player group you can not choose what your team has assigned to it.

LRMs have an additional capability of using friendly locks to utilize indirect fire. This is a capability of the weapon system and as such indirect fire enhances the versitility of that weapon.

Since you can not always control if LRMs end up on your team what is more benificial...

A: refusing to assist (when able) to utilize the full utility of a team mate's weapons. ie. not pressing R

B: being aware that there are LRMs on your team and actively looking for a way to leverage them to your team's advantage. ie. cooperating with the LRM team mate.

Since there isn't a choice as to what equipment your team has available and you now have some LRMs should you maybe think about how to use that asset instead of browbeating and preaching and in general wasting time and blocking up the comm channel with a disertation on "why asking please hold locks" is tantamount to saying go kill yourselves for my amusement.

Lol, just lol.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I have something against locking, but I ain't doing it for the parasite so that he could just lurm from behind. IIRC IMHO, PGI's only good fix this year is the Dual-Arc LRMs, where the locking mechanics have made it so that it's really hard to IDF at a range.

The problem of your approach is to make LRMs truly effective for IDF, we should have brought NARCs and TAGs, but since again you can't just choose what your team brings, that just means an exclusively IDF Lurmer is nothing but a burden. LRMs IDF without the use of spotting tools is ultimately too hard to maintain for effective results, so if that parasite wants IDF, then he better get closer so much so that locking and landing aren't too long for the lock-provider, or bring his own NARC.

You say that you have the asset anyways, so you should use it to their advantage since you got it, but the problem is that WE CAN'T USE IT EFFECTIVELY, we aren't spotters, we aren't geared to let that parasitic lurm-boat to just lurm from a distance all match long. Sure, not everyone locks, but you know why? because sometimes we can't lock, and other times we don't need lock, we could shoot at them and fade back to our cover.

The way I see it, no matter we choose between A or B, that "Hold locks" guy is most likely too incompetent that our chances of winning are low regardless, so why would I pick option B? At least I'm going to have fun with Option A.

That being said, you give us an A and B option, but you forgot the C: Hows about just play the LRM with LOS? You know, the right way; likewise option D, don't bring LRMs if you can't use it properly.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 27 June 2019 - 12:55 AM.

[Kroete]

The6thMessenger, on 27 June 2019 - 12:35 AM, said:

The way I see it, no matter we choose between A or B, that "Hold locks" guy is most likely too incompetent that our chances of winning are low regardless, so why would I pick option B? At least I'm going to have fun with Option A.

Never asked for locks, but often asked for lrms if i used my narc-raven.

But i know the difference, some times ago, after the lrm ammo buff, i ask some wellknowen lrm-user why he has nearly double the ammo then my svn but lesser stats. His idf approch worked good with his dedicated narcer in groupplay, but not so much in pub play it seems ...

After all the patches i can say,
the new double arc is not that bad, but i liked the skill aproch with bending more and it gave more options,
the new arc is not that bad, but the artmis locktime buff was much more worth for direct lrms.
The artemis nerf forced me to not beeing the first on a ridge or in a push anymore, i get now two alphas instead of one in return until my missiles hit, staying in the second row now is much better. Thats bad for the team because we have now 550 less armor in the first row in a push or on a ridge.

And about hold locks:
You should allways use r, but if you see who many t1 dont do that, you know that the tiers mean nothing.
Most of my df mechs have tc and or bap/cap and at least some sensorpoints, because i want to know if i can kill or cripple a enemy mech with one alpha.
If some idf user puts some missiles on my target its even better, spares ammo, heat and armor for me and if he only hits dirt its also ok, it still distracts my enemy by bettys bitching.
But i will (nearly) never sacrifice my mech for some locks, even with my spotters and narcers, uavs for are build for that.

Edited by Kroete, 27 June 2019 - 03:00 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Kroete, on 27 June 2019 - 02:42 AM, said:

Never asked for locks, but often asked for lrms if i used my narc-raven.

But i know the difference, some times ago, after the lrm ammo buff, i ask some wellknowen lrm-user why he has nearly double the ammo then my svn but lesser stats. His idf approch worked good with his dedicated narcer in groupplay, but not so much in pub play it seems ...

Exactly. That's the point of having a spotter, a dedicated narcer, that is where IDF shines. You (rhetorical you) don't just ask people to spot for you, chances are they aren't equipped, and would be better off doing their own thing than holding your hands.

Kroete, on 27 June 2019 - 02:42 AM, said:

After all the patches i can say,
the new double arc is not that bad, but i liked the skill aproch with bending more and it gave more options,
the new arc is not that bad, but the artmis locktime buff was much more worth for direct lrms.
The artemis nerf forced me to not beeing the first on a ridge or in a push anymore, i get now two alphas instead of one in return until my missiles hit, staying in the second row now is much better. Thats bad for the team because we have now 550 less armor in the first row in a push or on a ridge.

The Artemis Nerf was waaay before the Dual-Arc rework, but you know what, I agree, I only took the Artemis with LRMs for the Lock-Speed.


But now, for my intentions, the Lock-Speed has been aggregated to the LOS lock-speed bonus regardless of whether i have Artemis or not. Sure, maybe for you, this removed you from the front line, but for me I'm even more aggressive because of it.

Kroete, on 27 June 2019 - 02:42 AM, said:

You should allways use r, but if you see who many t1 dont do that, you know that the tiers mean nothing.
Most of my df mechs have tc and or bap/cap and at least some sensorpoints, because i want to know if i can kill or cripple a enemy mech with one alpha.

If that's the case, why would anyone saying "Hold Locks" to them would make them suddenly use R?

Kroete, on 27 June 2019 - 02:42 AM, said:

But i will (nearly) never sacrifice my mech for some locks, even with my spotters and narcers, uavs for are build for that.

Exactly, that's why it's unreasonable to just ask "hold locks" to random strangers, because they aren't necessarily built for spotting.

[Mok______]

Lykaon, on 26 June 2019 - 05:28 AM, said:

Yet somehow the very same players who complain about these LRM behaviors take no issue with "sniper" mechs doing pretty much the exact same thing.

I recently played in a match where the last mech we took out from the enemy team was a stealth Fafnir with quad light gauss.

I saw this mech early on I called out it's position and most if not all of my team were aware of where it was. The Fafnir was killed last because unlike the other assault mechs on the front it wasn't as dangerous or even invoked the perception of being more dangerous.

No doubt the pilot's choice to park way in the back and "snipe" directly contributed to the concentration of fire upon his team mates that were present in the main fight. He didn't share armor or present or project a presence on the battlefield to discourage the enemy from executing a bold attack. All that Fafnir was was a sidenote to watch Delta 3 for the stealth Fafnir and pick it off last.

Essentially they were exactally like an assault LRM boat that sits in the back and lobs indirect fire all match except it lacked the versetility of having indirect fire capabilities. One could argue that the Fafnir should have instead been an LRM boat and it would have contributed more.

But LRM boats are filthy rotten lock beggers but snipers are A-OK!

Well, the topic is about LRM users asking for locks. You want to start a thread about Assault Snipers, I will be happy to go express my concerns about them as well.

But they are not the same. They have to actually aim at their target. They have to actually expose themselves, albeit at a distance.

The further they are away and the faster their target and the cover between the sniper and the target greatly changes a sniper's chance of hitting. It requires some degree of skill to lead faster targets, or spot parts sticking out of cover. As oppose to sitting behind a mountain and using minimum motor skills to keep the circle somewhat in the square.

There is also the fact that if I see a sniper, I have an equal chance to firing back at him.

A LRM boat is just the origin of a long stream of missiles on the other side of the map launching high into the air and then coming almost straight down on the player. And on some maps, over any possible cover that has been working great against the sniper.

Also, snipers never request other players to do their targeting for them.

But, I do not understand why LRM Boats even need to ask to begin with. Every time I start shooting an enemy, it automatically locks on them within a few shots anyway.

The most fun matches I have played have been when there is an absence of LRMs ( and snipers ).

Edited by Mok______, 27 June 2019 - 07:40 AM.

[Kroete]

Mok______, on 27 June 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

As oppose to sitting behind a mountain and using minimum motor skills to keep the circle somewhat in the square.
....
A LRM boat is just the origin of a long stream of missiles on the other side of the map launching high into the air and then coming almost straight down on the player.

How do you know?

Mok______, on 26 June 2019 - 01:18 AM, said:

For the first part of this, I do not play with handicap type weapons.

About that circle and square thingy,
the changes were a nerf to low range lock-missiles (like the arc- and artemis nerf) but changed nothing on long range. (The new double arc made direct missiles a little better again, but with the ammo buff you can still do indirect mass spamming. And nothing changed on that, just spare enough ammo till the brawling starts.)
Dont blame the players, i dont like these changes and would have like it if they just increased the spread a lot and counter it with higher spreadboni on tag, artemis and narc. But this was to simple for pgi ...

About missiles comming allmost straight down, this was some years ago a point,
it was called lrmageddon, maybe you have heard the term and some storys about it?

At this time you could make your missiles go straight down
or with some skill let them do 180degree turns and hit enemys in the back,
there was no cover, no ecm, no radarderp and no hiding from them,
not this sissy **** you whine about.

Edited by Kroete, 27 June 2019 - 08:16 AM.

[Nightbird]

Mok______, on 27 June 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

But, I do not understand why LRM Boats even need to ask to begin with. Every time I start shooting an enemy, it automatically locks on them within a few shots anyway.

Add this to user.cfg file, disable auto-targeting, say no to LRMs

gp_mech_disable_autotarget = 1 -- 1) do not auto target mech under crosshair

[Mok______]

How do I know?

Because I can see it happening ingame. If, by chance, I end up dead I can spectate a LRM boat and watch just how easy it is.

As for LRM'geddon. Yeah, I remember it. It was about 3 or 4 years ago. And LRMers were against any changes back then.

But that has nothing to do with the fact that LRM Boats still hide in the back and still only need to barely keep the circle in the square. If that is the sissy **** you are referring too.

[Novakaine]

[Prototelis]

1. Coop got his own locks
2. Those were clearly SRMs anyways

[Kroete]

Mok______, on 27 June 2019 - 08:40 AM, said:

How do I know?

Because I can see it happening ingame. If, by chance, I end up dead I can spectate a LRM boat and watch just how easy it is.

Killing 4 mechs with 4 shots from dual heavy gauss looks also easy.
The last time i only played lrms was in 9.18, if its that easy you can for sure do the same stats then me in the next month by only using lrm assaults? Should be no problem for you?
It was before the patches, but now you have the dual arc and it should be even easier.

Mok______, on 27 June 2019 - 08:40 AM, said:

As for LRM'geddon. Yeah, I remember it. It was about 3 or 4 years ago. And LRMers were against any changes back then.

Again you should not talk for other players. I played a few matches and then played other games until the hotfix. Unbalanced games are no fun for me.
But your claim that lrm users where against the changes is bullsh.., everyone took lrms at that time because they were totaly overpowered and you where killed by them, doesnt matter if you take lrms or not. Why should lrmusers dont want a change if everyone took lrms and everyone where evenly killed by them and everyone was a lrmuser at that time? Is there an orange clown behind your right shoulder?

Mok______, on 27 June 2019 - 08:40 AM, said:

But that has nothing to do with the fact that LRM Boats still hide in the back and still only need to barely keep the circle in the square. If that is the sissy **** you are referring too.

Show us your next month lrm assault only stats then.

Edited by Kroete, 27 June 2019 - 04:46 PM.

[Mok______]

Two things.

1. All you have to do is go back and read the threads. I am not speaking for other people I am reporting what was said in the forum.

2. Why would I want to bother building a LRM boat? I hate LRMs. I wish they would remove them from the game. Are you seriously expecting me to build a LRM boat and play with it for an entire month just to show you, some nobody in the forums, some stats? All I have to do is just spectate LRM boats during game play to see exactly what LRM boat pilots are doing.

Now, I can tell you are the kind to want to have the last word. Probably some childish comment about clowns or whining or sissies. So, have at it. I will be ignoring you from now on.

[General Solo]

Seriously I miss the Lerm threads
Was running out of stuff to read
Forums are slow.....except Faction play section, but whoes got time for dat

[General Solo]

Nightbird, on 27 June 2019 - 08:10 AM, said:

Add this to user.cfg file, disable auto-targeting, say no to LRMs

gp_mech_disable_autotarget = 1 -- 1) do not auto target mech under crosshair

Are you saying this is more about people not pressing the R key to target enemies than lermies perhaps