172 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

its not bad when used as a tactic, however it is bad if it just happens naturally.

[Christophe Ivanov]

When you get toxic emotional replies instead of constructed and well meaning ones, it just shows how bad things are in this forum. YES NASCARing is BAD if it's won ton running just for the sake of it. It works only if it's done right for the whole team to use everyone against the enemy. In the last week, I have not seen one coordination done before dropping to this end.
Does not mean it's gonna fail, but in my experience, it does. But the several times it;s been coordinated, it's a joy to be part of even in assaults.
The trick is getting EVERYONE ON BOARD and doing it right. QP is not a ideal place for that. My advise is when it happens, just do your best and let it go.

[The6thMessenger]

Don't get me wrong, I detest Nascaring too, but if that's your attitude -- the high-and-mighty -- instead of just frustrated which would have been totally understandable, you're going to have a hard time, especially when you're ranting against actually better players.

Even competent players, though Nascar is such a poor way to play the game, they can, nonetheless swing the results within their favor. I wouldn't say that I'm the best, nor good, or even competent, but I'm not having that much problem with nascar -- unless I brought a Dire, and that's why I don't.

Have you tried the comms though? What about just Group-Queue, or even FP? Because apparently, it's 1v23 in SQ.

FLG 01, on 30 June 2019 - 07:16 AM, said:

How so?
https://mwomercs.com...Douglas+grizzly

Saying it bluntly, you lose more often than you win, you die more often than you kill, and you score less than the average player. I don't think you are ready for leadership yet.

Just stop blaming your team, and do not berate your teammates by calling them 'noobs' or 'sheep'.

https://leaderboard....Douglas+grizzly

Edited by The6thMessenger, 30 June 2019 - 07:49 PM.

[Novakaine]

Lemming infestation?

[FLG 01]

Christophe Ivanov, on 30 June 2019 - 07:47 PM, said:

When you get toxic emotional replies instead of constructed and well meaning ones, it just shows how bad things are in this forum.

'toxic' and 'emotional' are perfect terms to describe the OP and his vocuabulary, which included the words 'noob' and 'sheep' to describe fellow teammates.
The replies were remarkably sober considering the highly aggressive tone of the OP, which he continued, and the fact that he himself is far from a good player.

[Feral Clown]

Thanks for the laugh, I nearly choked when I read you describe yourself as competent. It's almost impressive how delusional you are.

[FRAGTAST1C]

I don't think we can dismiss this topic by pointing out the OP's stats. Most of what he's said is valid. NASCAR isn't a valid tactic 'cause people don't shoot at the enemies.

You can oscillate between the two flanks while constantly shooting at the enemies or push into one flank together and destroy them. But the problem is, most of the people simply take the widest route available and spend a lot of time "getting into position" without shooting. That's a problem. Rotation happens inevitably when you start chasing enemies but most of the people don't care to make that rotation smaller by taking the shortest route and worse, they give the high ground.

[Tarl Cabot]

Nascar is usually only an issue for ONE side of the equation. Spawn point issues would have the top spot taken by Caustic, followed at a distance by HPG. Mining would be on there but PGI switched Bravo and Charlie lance spawn spots.

It does make one wonder why PGI has not flipped the spawn location on Caustic. Right, they do not play their own game.

As for the OP, it is scary that with the visible status, he has played almost 12k games. Even though averaging 185, is said OP in Tier 2 or even Tier 1? That just goes to show how jacked up the PSR is, along with the MM using only weight/Tier to populate MM. And OP, I myself do not believe I should even be in Tier 1 but I have been since.. 2017 I think...

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 30 June 2019 - 10:15 PM.

[RickySpanish]

Christophe Ivanov, on 30 June 2019 - 07:47 PM, said:

When you get toxic emotional replies instead of constructed and well meaning ones, it just shows how bad things are in this forum. YES NASCARing is BAD if it's won ton running just for the sake of it. It works only if it's done right for the whole team to use everyone against the enemy. In the last week, I have not seen one coordination done before dropping to this end.
Does not mean it's gonna fail, but in my experience, it does. But the several times it;s been coordinated, it's a joy to be part of even in assaults.
The trick is getting EVERYONE ON BOARD and doing it right. QP is not a ideal place for that. My advise is when it happens, just do your best and let it go.

Nascar works fine. I do it. Hey look, my win rate is above 1... Must be doing something right, I just can't think of what it is. If I figure it out I'll let you and the OP know.

Edited by RickySpanish, 30 June 2019 - 11:08 PM.

[Prototelis]

It isn't nascar unless both teams are rotating.

[Christophe Ivanov]

Yes you're absolutely right and no question about that in regards to OP. But some replies have been well....just as bad and even worse. If folks would spend more time trying to do a more constructive dialogue, I bet these forums would be more worthwhile.

[Prototelis]

Obviously you've never encountered OP in the wild and been hackusated for no reason other than winning.

[Foxwalker]

FLG 01, on 30 June 2019 - 07:16 AM, said:

How so?
https://mwomercs.com...Douglas+grizzly

Saying it bluntly, you lose more often than you win, you die more often than you kill, and you score less than the average player. I don't think you are ready for leadership yet.

Just stop blaming your team, and do not berate your teammates by calling them 'noobs' or 'sheep'.

Sorry, I disagree with the OP, but this as well. Using the stats to say he has no right to say what he said is misleading. I like to win, but never cared about stats. I like trying out new mechs and new configurations, makes for pretty low stats, but I have fun.
The reality is that the stats don't mean that much individually, since Wins and losses and KDR are often the luck of the draw in QP. I have seen top players make a bad choice and get killed and seen less good players be the last man standing.


Herding cats is what happens most often in quick play. I for one don't get the complaining about Nascar. It is as valid a tactic as any. Often no tactic prevails, and it is just lucky placement that wins the day. Sometimes a few really exceptional players can pull out a win no matter what.

[Nightbird]

I like NASCARing, the worst pilots of the other team tend to be in the back so if you prune those off first, the good pilots are much easier to deal with.

[Danjo San]

funny how Nascar is always bad when you lose, but nobody talks about the times when Nascar actually won you matches.

"Stop Nascar, we are crushing the enemy!"

"Stop rotating, we are getting too much advantage!"

"Stop nascaring, the enemy assaults can't catch up to their team"

"Look there are two Assaults out of position, lets set up a firing line and see if they come to us!"

"We are moving too well as a group, Assaults stay back while we spread out more!"

[FLG 01]

Foxwalker, on 01 July 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

Using the stats to say he has no right to say what he said is misleading.

Good thing than that I never said anything to that point. I merely doubted the (rather pompous) claim to competence.

Of course he had got 'the right' to voice his opinion, just like I got the same right to call it nonsense.

Foxwalker, on 01 July 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

The reality is that the stats don't mean that much individually, since Wins and losses and KDR are often the luck of the draw in QP.

Good players usually have a positive influence on the match. That does not mean they would win everytime, just more often than a bad players.

Consistently winning more than losing is not the result of dumb luck, it is the result of consistently good playing. Conversely, if a bad player continues to make mistakes he puts his team in a very bad position as even small mistakes can easily have a snowball effect.
This difference will show up in the WLR.

[Kubernetes]

Foxwalker, on 01 July 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

The reality is that the stats don't mean that much individually, since Wins and losses and KDR are often the luck of the draw in QP. I have seen top players make a bad choice and get killed and seen less good players be the last man standing.

The stats from any particular match don't mean much, but a player's stats over hundreds or thousands of matches paint a pretty clear picture of that player's abilities. Do you think it's just coincidence or "luck of the draw" that the top of Jarl's is filled with players widely acknowledged to be among the best?



Regarding Nascar, I made my peace with it a long time ago.

It's going to happen no matter how much you cry about it. There's no trust or cohesion in a solo queue 12-man, so people are going to default to the simplest, most basic movement, one that requires no communication or top-down coordination. Right flank murderball? Humans have been doing that for 3000+ years. It's inevitable. I don't care if you think you're the MWO reincarnation of Rommel, nobody is going to listen to you, RandomUser12345. Your brilliant tactics don't matter because you'd be lucky to get maybe 1 in 10 games where teammates actually listen.

Maybe, just maybe, all you Brilliant MWO Tacticians should spend less time crying about Nascar and instead focus on how to make Nascar better and more efficient at winning in your hands. It already wins 50% of the time, which is a better win rate than that of most Brilliant MWO Tacticians. The mechanics of Nascar aren't that hard to understand, and once you get it you can focus on ways to make your team's Nascar better than the enemy's Nascar.

[Xiphias]

Foxwalker, on 01 July 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

I for one don't get the complaining about Nascar. It is as valid a tactic as any. Often no tactic prevails, and it is just lucky placement that wins the day. Sometimes a few really exceptional players can pull out a win no matter what.

There are valid complaints against Nascar, but the reality of the situation is that it's going to happen so it's best to be prepared for it. What I take issue with is the bogeyman that Nascar has become on the forums. People blaming their poor performance on their teams and on Nascar rather than honestly looking at their own gameplay.

You are just as likely to end up on a team with Nascar as against it. If you lose more than you win it isn't the fault of Nascar. It's easier on the ego though to blame Nascar/the team instead of admitting that you aren't a very good player. You will never get better if you always blame your team.(I mean this generally, not a you directly). If Nascar suddenly went away, these players would find some new strategy to blame their failures on (e.g. poptarting, OP weapons, etc.)

Quote

The reality is that the stats don't mean that much individually, since Wins and losses and KDR are often the luck of the draw in QP. I have seen top players make a bad choice and get killed and seen less good players be the last man standing.

This is how individual matches go, but not stats over a large sample set. The only consistent factor in your matches is you. Give enough matches (say 1000) good players will win more matches and bad players will lose more matches. You can't predict any single match, but you can predict overall trends. With a large number of matches stats are a pretty good indicator of how a player performs in the matches they are part of. They aren't perfect, but they are better than the biased personal evaluations of skill that people have.

[Foxwalker]

FLG 01, on 01 July 2019 - 11:15 AM, said:

Good thing than that I never said anything to that point. I merely doubted the (rather pompous) claim to competence.

Of course he had got 'the right' to voice his opinion, just like I got the same right to call it nonsense.



Good players usually have a positive influence on the match. That does not mean they would win everytime, just more often than a bad players.

Consistently winning more than losing is not the result of dumb luck, it is the result of consistently good playing. Conversely, if a bad player continues to make mistakes he puts his team in a very bad position as even small mistakes can easily have a snowball effect.
This difference will show up in the WLR.

You and Kubernetes (and Xiphias - well reasoned) have convinced me. I did not agree with the OP in the first place. His using his stats good or bad or how good he is one on one, would not sway me to his argument.

If you don't want the team to do x tactic, you are not going to get them to change by saying don't do x. You have to present an alternate better plan.

Edited by Foxwalker, 01 July 2019 - 12:44 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Sometimes you can rally anti nascar sometimes...