305 replies to this topic

[Vincent DIFrancesco]

Prototelis, on 10 July 2019 - 08:50 PM, said:

Try getting your own locks.

...I'm pretty sure streak pilots are getting their own locks.

[John McClintock]

Why does op have a hard on to nerf streakz? Is it not bad enough that they spread damage? Half the posters think streaks are unussable already. Move and counter move. I was even accused of losing the match for my team for using an assassin with 4x ssrm2s and a couple mpl... Even though i got the highest dmg on my team and second place overall... So which is it? They are useless or so OP they need nerfed? Mad cause people pad their dmg output? Please... Leave them alone. Are you going to tell use where on the painted miniature the streak boat touched you? EVERYWHERE!!!!!! LOL

They fill a nich and serve a role

Don't like your light getting streaked? Use ecm, or hang with someone who does. Or pay attention to your opponent's loadout. I got lrmed to death in a most heinous way twice yesterday. I'm not crying to get lrms nerfed.

#nerfallthethings

#stoplikingwhatidontlike

[R Valentine]

No, streaks don't need to be nerfed. They're niche weapons as they should be. Sorry your light got destroyed, but there are other niche weapons that affect other mech classes differently too.

[John McClintock]

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 03:28 AM, said:

Streaks being most effective versus lights? Kinda the point of the weapon isn't it? It's really about the concept. It could be done with different damage values, maybe even shorter cooldown.

It's not as forced to chain-fire to assault, versus lights. Part of the Lock-Duration nerf is expecting that the mobility and the ability to juke is a massive factor in trying to limit the effectiveness of the Streaks, it's just not the same with assaults. You're looking to fight lights versus 130 to 150 KPH, whereas assaults would probably be at 48 to 65 kph at their slower configuration.

If you're versus an assault at 48 to 65 KPH, it doesn't matter if you could fire quickly with streaks or not, direct-fire would still be a lot better.



Honestly, a breath of fresh air. I had a debacle with a certain overperforming swordfish who aren't too keen with streaks as light-hunting tool, or the role itself as a whole.

Remember when LRMs only had one arc? And it was ****, and shat upon? I just want to do the same thing with SSRMs. But it seems people are fine with complacency.

If people don't want this, it's fine, enjoy the cheap anti-light weapon.



That's kind of expected considering that Lights are inherently fragile in the first place. Given with lasers and other PPFLD, it's just a question of skill. Either would nuke the light given with a good volley. Now this outrage is really just the one-uppery, the need for distinction.



January 22 2019 Patch did weighted homing already, and if anything, the IS SRMs have 2.15 damage/missile, the IS SRM is at 2.00, and the clan is just at 2 at both.



Well, to be fair, I always thought that SSRMs should have been firing in stream.

You can already prevent locks by juking. You know how hard it is to get locks on a fast mover? Short of tag it's VERY hard to get a lock on a fast mover. Lights just got buffed to make target locks harder. A little too much IMHO

[The6thMessenger]

John McClintock, on 11 July 2019 - 01:33 PM, said:

Why does op have a hard on to nerf streakz? Is it not bad enough that they spread damage? Half the posters think streaks are unussable already. Move and counter move. I was even accused of losing the match for my team for using an assassin with 4x ssrm2s and a couple mpl... Even though i got the highest dmg on my team and second place overall... So which is it? They are useless or so OP they need nerfed? Mad cause people pad their dmg output? Please... Leave them alone. Are you going to tell use where on the painted miniature the streak boat touched you? EVERYWHERE!!!!!! LOL

They fill a nich and serve a role

Don't like your light getting streaked? Use ecm, or hang with someone who does. Or pay attention to your opponent's loadout. I got lrmed to death in a most heinous way twice yesterday. I'm not crying to get lrms nerfed.

#nerfallthethings
#stoplikingwhatidontlike

John McClintock, on 11 July 2019 - 02:28 PM, said:

You can already prevent locks by juking. You know how hard it is to get locks on a fast mover? Short of tag it's VERY hard to get a lock on a fast mover. Lights just got buffed to make target locks harder. A little too much IMHO

I don't think you really understand my position. I respect homing weapons, I would like SSRMs to retain the niche, and the LRMs to be respected. I have fervently defended their use against those that are a bit elitist, and while I do accept the merit of their points, there are just also something wrong with their approach. I suggested this rework, in the interest of compromising with those who loathe the SSRMs niche, that is it.

This is just nothing more than a concept, if there were different values there's possibly a retained place in the power-curve depending on said values. It just effectively prevents instant launching of missiles, but we could further buff it with perhaps higher damage, higher velocity, lower cooldown, if it proves to be underperforming.

If anything, it makes Locking waaaaay easier, it has larger lock-cone that is increased by using TCs; relatively fire-and-forget because you only need retained allied target-lock to keep the volley homing; and the stacking lock-time would only mean that you could launch individual weapons faster when chain-fired -- if an LRM40 requires 2s of lock-time, the LRM30 would need only 1.5s, the LRM20 only needs 1s, the LRM15 needs 0.75, LRM10 needs 0.5s, and LRM5s need 0.25s -- imagine that. With that scheme, AMS will also be effective against chain-firing, so mass-firing LRMs would also have a place.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 July 2019 - 03:56 PM.

[Dee Eight]

The6thMessenger, on 10 July 2019 - 05:22 PM, said:

It's not about being fine, it's about being an avenue to improve, and use to limit the usability of streaks versus lights without removing it's niche in light-hunting.

Continue to mess with things related to missiles and the player population will continue to drop.

[Dee Eight]

Vincent DIFrancesco, on 11 July 2019 - 07:34 AM, said:

...I'm pretty sure streak pilots are getting their own locks.

Exactly... they don't work at all without locks... and that requires line of light, or carrying our own UAVs. We can't just hide 900 meters from the fight using other people's locks to fire indirectly like the OP prefers to do...

[The6thMessenger]

Dee Eight, on 11 July 2019 - 05:07 PM, said:

Exactly... they don't work at all without locks... and that requires line of light, or carrying our own UAVs. We can't just hide 900 meters from the fight using other people's locks to fire indirectly like the OP prefers to do...

So now i'm accused of being a background lurmer.

[Prototelis]

The issue with streaks isn't that you can one hit gack a light; the issue is you don't have to aim to do it.

Edited by Prototelis, 11 July 2019 - 05:34 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Prototelis, on 11 July 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

The issue with streaks isn't that you can one hit gack a light; the issue is you don't have to aim to do it.

I see. Nevermind the olive-branch.

Look guys, you people hate homing weapons, you want validation to your aiming skills, that's fine, you do you.

[Prototelis]

The problem is; auto aim SRMs invalidate almost an entire class that relies on speed and maneuverability.

Edited by Prototelis, 11 July 2019 - 06:07 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Prototelis, on 11 July 2019 - 05:53 PM, said:

The problem is; auto aim SRMs invalidate almost an entire class relies on speed and maneuverability.

And so does aim, isn't that the bigger threats are the AC20s, HGRs, and the SPLs that could nuke the lights with one well-placed shot? If you could theoretically nail the lights with both weapons anyways (which them overperformers could do), the only real difference there is skill.

Like I said, you do you.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 July 2019 - 06:04 PM.

[Prototelis]

There are several things I can do to throw off actual aim by leveraging speed and maneuverability; auto aim is almost always a hit with barely any effort from the user.

[The6thMessenger]

Prototelis, on 11 July 2019 - 06:07 PM, said:

There are several things I can do to throw off actual aim by leveraging speed and maneuverability; auto aim is almost always a hit with barely any effort from the user.

Which is affected by multiple hard-counters already. You need about 2s of target tracking; worsened by ECM; shut-down by AMS batteries; you can't lock on a stealth-armored target; hell it limits your DPS by a several margin, and pretty much all of the Auto-Aim is spread damage. You can't just treat homing similarly as the aimed ones, you don't have to put it on high regard either.

And there it is, "auto aim is almost always a hit with barely any effort from the user". Like I said you do you, hate it if you want and you seem that you do.

It could have been the lower end of DPS but provides a floor by being the most reliable weapon system to land but not the one with the DPS that allows it to easily carry. But no, leave it to PGI to **** things up. Although it seems like what would really satisfy you is the removal of the "auto-aim", to that end I just can't help you.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 July 2019 - 06:26 PM.

[thievingmagpi]

itt: "streaks take skill"

[Navid A1]

Here are some of the red flags that makes OP's idea a bad one:

1- immensely convoluted locking mechanic

2- more screen clutter

3- further complicating gameplay

4- taking away essential gameplay mechanics as balancing tools instead of stats.

[Prototelis]

You can totally lock stealth armor lights with tag.

Stealth lights are some of the worst in the game IMO. Limited firepower, poor dissipation while in stealth, doesn't prevent mkI eyeball from seeing you.

Thanks for giving me my opinion again tho.

I would have preferred streaks worked like MW4; slow tracking and a wide turn radius toward where the reticle is pointed.

LRMs and ATMs aren't much of a threat to lights TBH. I think they're mostly fine mechanically. ATMs need to get their damage nuked. Would have prefered that they left auto aim missile health where it was and only buffed actual aim missile health.

[dario03]

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 03:28 AM, said:

That's kind of expected considering that Lights are inherently fragile in the first place. Given with lasers and other PPFLD, it's just a question of skill. Either would nuke the light given with a good volley. Now this outrage is really just the one-uppery, the need for distinction.

Yeah...Lights are already countered by other weapons... So again, why do we need a nearly auto-aim anti-light weapon? Lights are the lowest performing least used class. Why not rebalance streaks to be equal against the classes. Or if you want a niche then make them great vs big mechs and bad vs smaller ones.

Edited by dario03, 11 July 2019 - 07:21 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

They should just make Streaks require a Tag and change the behaviour such that they move and turn (albeing in a wide angle) where you point the Tag at. No need for Lock-on and Fire-and-Forget. Just make the Tag itself act like a guidance system and remove the Lock-on once and for all.

Maybe do that for all Lock-on missile systems.

Give Light Tags to all factions and the effective range at 500m and regular Tag at 800m. Those that want to LRM will now need to arc and manually guide the missiles to the targets over the obstacles instead of locking onto a red box and shooting at the terrain.

[The6thMessenger]

dario03, on 11 July 2019 - 07:21 PM, said:

Yeah...Lights are already countered by other weapons... So again, why do we need a nearly auto-aim anti-light weapon? Lights are the lowest performing least used class. Why not rebalance streaks to be equal against the classes. Or if you want a niche then make them great vs big mechs and bad vs smaller ones.

So how do you balance against a classes of mech that hinge their effectiveness on someone else's failure of having adequate aiming skills?

The point of the convolution is to precisely increase the time it takes to require a lock, because the lighter you get the smaller the window time is and the less effective the homing weapons system becomes, which satisfies the balancing between classes.

Having to stare at a dire-wolf for 6s to get a lock is not the same as having to stare at a locust for the same duration to get a lock.

The slower and larger target would be easier to track and lace with more missiles, versus a smaller one which you are likely to lock only less and get out less missiles as a result. So you see, the Lights in a way could still leverage their elusivity despite the auto-aim system.

The Locust at 148 KPH with 170-Engine, versus a Dire-Wolf at 54 KPH. So at a 200-meter run, that is 3.7s of window-time for the Dire-Wolf, locust is at 1.35. With my suggestion at 1 sec / 6 SSRMs, and disregarding travel-time while assuming instant hit, the Dire-Wolf would have to eat up 22.2 SSRMs and receive 44.4 damage in the process, the locust would only get 8.1 SSRMs and 16.2 damage in the process.

Look at that, there's less damage that correlates with exposure. Would you rather have a uniform 18 SRM on both mechs irrespective of class?

Navid A1, on 11 July 2019 - 06:42 PM, said:

Here are some of the red flags that makes OP's idea a bad one:

1- immensely convoluted locking mechanic
2- more screen clutter
3- further complicating gameplay
4- taking away essential gameplay mechanics as balancing tools instead of stats.

tl;dr you just don't want it. Ok.

Here's my 2-cents though, LRMs took reworking before it was fine. We could tweak the hell out of it's stats, but in the end only the dual-arc fixed it.

Same case here. Like I said, how do you balance against a class that relies completely on the failure of another? You can only go so far with stat changes, and it could just tweak the balance into unfun results like Clans being sluggish as hell. They already resorted to it by reducing lock-cone from 45 to 25, what's next reduce it to 1 degree?

FRAGTAST1C, on 11 July 2019 - 07:48 PM, said:

They should just make Streaks require a Tag and change the behaviour such that they move and turn (albeing in a wide angle) where you point the Tag at. No need for Lock-on and Fire-and-Forget. Just make the Tag itself act like a guidance system and remove the Lock-on once and for all.

Maybe do that for all Lock-on missile systems.

Give Light Tags to all factions and the effective range at 500m and regular Tag at 800m. Those that want to LRM will now need to arc and manually guide the missiles to the targets over the obstacles instead of locking onto a red box and shooting at the terrain.

So aside from the difference of tonnage and slot allotment, why would that be any different to say reducing the target-lock angle from 25-degrees to 0.01 degrees?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 July 2019 - 08:30 PM.