305 replies to this topic

[FRAGTAST1C]

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 07:52 PM, said:

So aside from the difference of tonnage and slot allotment, why would that be any different to say reducing the target-lock angle from 25-degrees to 0.01 degrees?

Speaking from the perspective of all lock-on missiles and not just the Streaks (I know this topic is for streaks but humour me), making the Tag do the work will actually require proper aim and tracing the target as opposed to fire-and-forget.

Now, Streaks a good counter to the Light mechs. The lock-on system makes it that way. If you make it so that the Tag is required, then the guy using Streaks don't need to lock-on. They can fire whenever they want but they need to guide the missiles to the target manually using the Tag. The Tag provides a counter to the ECM, right? Now, you can use a guided missile system that is as good as your aim for the entirety of the travel time. In the end, the Light mech specialists can still zig-zag and dodge missiles instead of being tailed by auto-lock weapon while there is a good challenge and maybe better outcome if the Streak pilot can guide the missiles with the Tag into one component.

Speaking about LRMs now, the LRM boats will need a Tag and they can dumb fire like ATMs. But they are now in control of the flight path. They can sit back and lob missiles indirectly and blindly or get direct LOS and manually guide their missiles towards their intended target. Or they can spam an area, similar to an artillery strike and hit a cluster of enemies doing tiny bits of damage.

[The6thMessenger]

FRAGTAST1C, on 11 July 2019 - 08:02 PM, said:

Speaking from the perspective of all lock-on missiles and not just the Streaks (I know this topic is for streaks but humour me), making the Tag do the work will actually require proper aim and tracing the target as opposed to fire-and-forget.

So would a lock-cone that is infinitesimally small. It's like what's the difference between an LB10X that all pellets land on the exact place versus a single-slug AC10 -- i guess the tonnage difference and critting, but guess what that just invalidated AC10.

And if the weapon requires proper aim, and leading, why wouldn't I just take a better direct-fire weapon and just pepper them without all the convolution of having to put a god damn TAG and get a lock? Do i even get a lock?

FRAGTAST1C, on 11 July 2019 - 08:02 PM, said:

Now, Streaks a good counter to the Light mechs. The lock-on system makes it that way. If you make it so that the Tag is required, then the guy using Streaks don't need to lock-on. They can fire whenever they want but they need to guide the missiles to the target manually using the Tag.

So why can't I just shoot the lights with lasers and be done with it? At that level of constant tracking required, we might as well use bonafide direct-fire weapons, because it defeats the purpose of a homing weapon. It's supposed to be easy mode, but it's neither easy, nor still effective.

[Novakaine]

Ah Protoie this is really consuming you.

[FRAGTAST1C]

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 08:08 PM, said:

So would a lock-cone that is infinitesimally small. It's like what's the difference between an LB10X that all pellets land on the exact place versus a single-slug AC10 -- i guess the tonnage difference and critting, but guess what that just invalidated AC10.

And if the weapon requires proper aim, and leading, why wouldn't I just take a better direct-fire weapon and just pepper them without all the convolution of having to put a god damn TAG and get a lock? Do i even get a lock?

So why can't I just shoot the lights with lasers and be done with it? At that level of constant tracking required, we might as well use bonafide direct-fire weapons, because it defeats the purpose of a homing weapon. It's supposed to be easy mode, but it's neither easy, nor still effective.

Ah, the point is to be to able to control the flight path of the missiles using the Tag. Streaks require a lock and then the flight path is automated. The change to that requiring a Tag for guiding it means that you can fire preemptively while being able to control their flight path. It isn't invalidating the SRMs 'cause they are still effective in doing what they do i.e., used in bombing runs and in brawling 'cause the higher projectile speed is suited for it and in such situations, you need to twist away from the targets after firing anyway to reduce face time. Streaks require more finesse since you can manually control their flight path albeit you can't make them fly like the RPG in Half Life 2.

This system, if carried over to LRMs will mean that LRM'ers will have full control over the missile's path and no longer need to blame the terrain or the weapon system itself not being able to differentiate between Direct and Indirect locks effectively.

[The6thMessenger]

FRAGTAST1C, on 11 July 2019 - 08:32 PM, said:

Ah, the point is to be to able to control the flight path of the missiles using the Tag. Streaks require a lock and then the flight path is automated. The change to that requiring a Tag for guiding it means that you can fire preemptively while being able to control their flight path. It isn't invalidating the SRMs 'cause they are still effective in doing what they do i.e., used in bombing runs and in brawling 'cause the higher projectile speed is suited for it and in such situations, you need to twist away from the targets after firing anyway to reduce face time. Streaks require more finesse since you can manually control their flight path albeit you can't make them fly like the RPG in Half Life 2.

This system, if carried over to LRMs will mean that LRM'ers will have full control over the missile's path and no longer need to blame the terrain or the weapon system itself not being able to differentiate between Direct and Indirect locks effectively.

Again, why won't we just use bonafide direct-fire weapons such as lasers to deal damage with that level of tracking? Don't get me wrong, it would be swell if TAG could do that, but if missiles could ONLY do that, it defeats the point of them being homing, you just got a more convoluted system to what is basically lasers but is just less effective because you don't deal damage immediately or could be focused at a single point.

People want to make Homing weapons require more aim, but honestly that just defeats the purpose of being a homing weapon -- it's pointless.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 July 2019 - 08:46 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 08:38 PM, said:

Again, why won't we just use bonafide direct-fire weapons such as lasers to deal damage with that level of tracking? Don't get me wrong, it would be swell if TAG could do that, but if missiles could ONLY do that, it defeats the point of them being homing, you just got a more convoluted system to what is basically lasers but is just less effective because you don't deal damage immediately or could be focused at a single point.

'Cause Lasers have burn time. With a Tag, you just point at the enemy mech (doesn't matter where) and the missiles explode upon contact. If they hit the same component, then they do full damage to that component immediately whereas with Lasers, you'll need to trace the component perfectly. The really good players will distinguish themselves by being able to target components with Tag + Streaks and it offers another weapon system instead of just lasers. Those that stand by lasers now have another weapon system to play with.

[The6thMessenger]

FRAGTAST1C, on 11 July 2019 - 08:49 PM, said:

'Cause Lasers have burn time.

And what? Streaks don't have travel time?

Likewise if the target hid behind cover before missile volley impact, does that mean you dealt a portion of your damage like the laser did?

Likewise is it not vulnerable against AMS?

FRAGTAST1C, on 11 July 2019 - 08:49 PM, said:

The really good players will distinguish themselves by being able to target components with Tag + Streaks and it offers another weapon system instead of just lasers. Those that stand by lasers now have another weapon system to play with.

And there it is. It's all about distinguishing good players from bad players.

Don't get me wrong, you do you. But don't you could already do that by NOT relying on streaks and auto-aim?

Honestly though, if any progress is to be made in properly fixing homing weapons, we should really fix our attitude about it first.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 July 2019 - 09:03 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 09:01 PM, said:

And what? Streaks don't have travel time?

Likewise if the target hid behind cover before missile volley impact, does that mean you dealt a portion of your damage like the laser did?

Likewise is it not vulnerable against AMS?

Yes, to 3. No to the second. Well, the second depends on how many missiles actually hit the target, doesn't it?

Regarding 1, with Tag guided Streaks, you only need to aim at the full mech and not at any one component. To add to that, if you get the missile spread quirks and nodes enough to be able to concentrate the missiles into a component, then you need to aim at the desired component for a only small portion of that flight time unlike Lasers where you need the burn time to be pointed at one component.

Edited by FRAGTAST1C, 11 July 2019 - 09:15 PM.

[Feral Clown]

I prefer the making them harder to use approach.

I use streaks a lot in CW and it is the only lock on weapon (done with VGL 3 after leveling it made me feel gross) that I will occasionally run in quick play.

Currently the lock on mechanic, even after the radius change is easy. Too easy. Holding the lock should be on par with holding a burn on a moving mech with med pulses, which is not hard. Once you obtain a lock, you really have to be bad to lose it, or your opponent good/lucky enough to get around cover to break los.

What I am trying to say is that I would like it changed so that a light didn't need cover but could shake off a lock by zigging and zagging skillfully enough that tracking them is tougher. Such as a light could do against pulse lasers or dodging an srm volley.

[The6thMessenger]

FRAGTAST1C, on 11 July 2019 - 09:06 PM, said:

Yes, to 3. No to the second. Well, the second depends on how many missiles actually hit the target, doesn't it?

Unless you're stream-firing, then you either hit or you don't. This isn't exactly similar to Lasers but you don't exactly suffer all of the hooplas in between.

So no, you just got a worse pseudo-lasers in terms of use.

FRAGTAST1C, on 11 July 2019 - 09:06 PM, said:

Regarding 1, with Tag guided Streaks, you only need to aim at the full mech and not at any one component

I got that, and you have to understand that it makes it even worse. Even LRMs and ATMs require constant targetting, and now you gotta do it with streaks, when they weren't even good at it that they have to overwhelm the target with a good amount of missiles to be even effective.

FRAGTAST1C, on 11 July 2019 - 09:06 PM, said:

To add to that, if you get the missile spread quirks and nodes enough to be able to concentrate the missiles into a component, then you need to aim at the desired component for a only small portion of that flight time unlike Lasers where you need the burn time to be pointed at one component.

So you gotta aim the Lasers so you could focus a component, I don't see anything bad about that. Small portion of flight-time? Are you sure? Because the Medium-Pulse Lasers of Clan at 330m range has 0.9s duration, and with the CSSRM only at 260m/s, which means at the same duration as the CMPL, you could only be as effective at 234m.

"Small portion of flight-time."

Feral Clown, on 11 July 2019 - 10:06 PM, said:

I prefer the making them harder to use approach.

I use streaks a lot in CW and it is the only lock on weapon (done with VGL 3 after leveling it made me feel gross) that I will occasionally run in quick play.

Currently the lock on mechanic, even after the radius change is easy. Too easy. Holding the lock should be on par with holding a burn on a moving mech with med pulses, which is not hard. Once you obtain a lock, you really have to be bad to lose it, or your opponent good/lucky enough to get around cover to break los.

What I am trying to say is that I would like it changed so that a light didn't need cover but could shake off a lock by zigging and zagging skillfully enough that tracking them is tougher. Such as a light could do against pulse lasers or dodging an srm volley.

And how harder would it be if you would need about 3s of lock-time to lock all three ATM12s before you could launch a homing target? Simmilarly how harder would it be if you need 6s of lock-time to launch all 6 SSRMs to deliver a poor light to kingdom-come?

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 July 2019 - 10:15 PM.

[Feral Clown]

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 10:14 PM, said:

And how harder would it be if you would need about 3s of lock-time to lock all three ATM12s before you could launch a homing target? Simmilarly how harder would it be if you need 6s of lock-time to launch all 6 SSRMs to deliver a poor light to kingdom-come?

6 seconds of lock on time to launch all of your streak? That seems like an awfully long time and can't imagine anyone would use them at all which would effectively nuke the weapon from the game. It also wouldn't raise the skill ceiling for them, it would just make them useless.

Like I said, make them need the player to track on the same level it does with lasers. Your idea is simply too convoluted and for the life of me I can't see anywhere in any way that it would be an improvement or positive change to the weapon.

[Kotzi]

You guys do realize that there are Skillnodes to instantly debuff the locks when out of sight, even if its just a branch of a tree blocking the LOS? And when you are able to dodge AC/Laser whatever you can dodge streaks too, difficulty depending on the environment of course but that applies to any weapon.

If you run towards an enemy as a light without any cover thinking he is an easy target because all Mechwarriors play with steering wheel, your loss. Especially if he should be having some streaks for just that moment, that rarely happens thus almost wasting weaponslots with weapons that could be more effective im most other cases.

There is absolutely no need to do anything in this regard why waste energy on this?

[thievingmagpi]

skill tree? what's that

[The6thMessenger]

Feral Clown, on 11 July 2019 - 10:34 PM, said:

6 seconds of lock on time to launch all of your streak? That seems like an awfully long time and can't imagine anyone would use them at all which would effectively nuke the weapon from the game. It also wouldn't raise the skill ceiling for them, it would just make them useless.

More Missiles = Longer Lock Time

This means if you want to reduce lock-time, reduce the amount of your tubes. Try firing only 3x SSRMs at a time for the same lock-duration it has now.

You have more leeway for slower and larger targets, but this should work wonders in nerfing SSRMs for lights especially versus the Streak-boats.

Feral Clown, on 11 July 2019 - 10:34 PM, said:

Like I said, make them need the player to track on the same level it does with lasers. Your idea is simply too convoluted and for the life of me I can't see anywhere in any way that it would be an improvement or positive change to the weapon.

That's because you're trying to judge the homing weapons like bonafide direct-fire weapons, so of course it's going to work, and you can't reasonably expect it to work. You want homing weapons, use them as homing weapons, you want what is basically lasers then use basically lasers, and stop turning homing weapons into lasers.

It'll be an improvement, because you now have the option of being more reactive due to faster individual locking of missiles which if you chain-fire you could quickly trade with enemies; on the other end you could shoot all of your alpha without ghost-heat allowing you to comfortably deal with AMS if you happen to have the opportunity; and finally it allows balancing for both the heavier and lighter classes because you can't just get out the same amount of missiles versus lights because you can't lock a lot of them versus the heavier and larger ones.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 11 July 2019 - 11:26 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 06:22 PM, said:

Which is affected by multiple hard-counters already. You need about 2s of target tracking ...

Woah woah woah ... Don't mean to be rude, but if you need 2s to target a non-ECM light with steaks then I see where the problem is ...

[Feral Clown]

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 11:13 PM, said:

More Missiles = Longer Lock Time

This means if you want to reduce lock-time, reduce the amount of your tubes. Try firing only 3x SSRMs at a time for the same lock-duration it has now.

You have more leeway for slower and larger targets, but this should work wonders in nerfing SSRMs for lights especially versus the Streak-boats.



That's because you're trying to judge the homing weapons like bonafide direct-fire weapons, so of course it's going to work, and you can't reasonably expect it to work. You want homing weapons, use them as homing weapons, you want what is basically lasers then use basically lasers, and stop turning homing weapons into lasers.

It'll be an improvement, because you now have the option of being more reactive due to faster individual locking of missiles which if you chain-fire you could quickly trade with enemies; on the other end you could shoot all of your alpha without ghost-heat allowing you to comfortably deal with AMS if you happen to have the opportunity; and finally it allows balancing for both the heavier and lighter classes because you can't just get out the same amount of missiles versus lights because you can't lock a lot of them versus the heavier and larger ones.

Not trying to judge them, I am directly saying that it should absolutely require the same amount of skill as using med pulse or something of the like...which is already a low bar.

It also would not be an improvement because chain firing is not good. That is not a reasonable trade off when alpha, twist, alpha is the name of the game. Forcing or promoting chainfiring promotes poor play. Also currently ghost heat does it's job allowing players to alpha once or twice then you will be heat capped and forced to fire separate groups. 6 seconds and the multi weapons cycling through lock phase, I am telling you is just too much of a mess, and I am seeing no one on this post who thinks that'd be a good idea.

It is also seemingly based around streaks being OP or something, which they are not. They are too easy to use, which is true of all lock on weapons currently, but they are not ruling the game or high up on the metaboards. Especially since there are a lot of lights with ECM. I can't recall the last time I died to streaks in my Grinner, but it has been a while. I don't really get too concerned by streaks unless I happen to be the last guy alive and I play lights and fast mediums most often.

[FRAGTAST1C]

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 09:01 PM, said:

And there it is. It's all about distinguishing good players from bad players.

Don't get me wrong, you do you. But don't you could already do that by NOT relying on streaks and auto-aim?

Honestly though, if any progress is to be made in properly fixing homing weapons, we should really fix our attitude about it first.

You're misunderstanding me here. Even lasers distinguish between the good and bad players. How? The good players will focus the entire burn duration onto a single component almost every time and don't splash it over the entire enemy mech.

The point of Streaks is to trace the enemy mech, not the component. Those that can target a component with Streaks, do better than those don't. That's all. There's no attitude problem here.

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 10:14 PM, said:

Unless you're stream-firing, then you either hit or you don't. This isn't exactly similar to Lasers but you don't exactly suffer all of the hooplas in between.

So no, you just got a worse pseudo-lasers in terms of use.

Actually, some missiles in a cluster do miss the target. I've observed closely when I was using my Revenant with LRM 60 when I first started playing MWO and that's when I learnt that I need to move and get direct visuals on my enemy so that I can see whether or not part of my missiles aren't missing. A similar thing was happening when I was using the Ares back then. All of the missiles in two SRM6+A wouldn't hit the target if I didn't aim right.

Similarly with Streaks, they have a clustering or a grouping. If a portion of the group hits an obstacle like an elevated terrain, then that damage is lost from the whole.

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 09:01 PM, said:

I got that, and you have to understand that it makes it even worse. Even LRMs and ATMs require constant targetting, and now you gotta do it with streaks, when they weren't even good at it that they have to overwhelm the target with a good amount of missiles to be even effective.

So you gotta aim the Lasers so you could focus a component, I don't see anything bad about that. Small portion of flight-time? Are you sure? Because the Medium-Pulse Lasers of Clan at 330m range has 0.9s duration, and with the CSSRM only at 260m/s, which means at the same duration as the CMPL, you could only be as effective at 234m.

"Small portion of flight-time."

Yes, LRMs and ATMs require constant targeting but they can be dumb-fired. Streaks can't. With the Tag guidance, you don't need locks to fire it. You fire preemptively and then guide it if you want. That's the versatility that I'm suggesting.

MPLs have 0.9s of duration but they do 6.5 damage, which can be splashed. Also, they need to be aimed all the time during that duration, even IF it's a small duration.

Streaks with Tag guidance doesn't need that. You don't need perfect aim right from the start. You fire, guide the missile toward the enemy and as long as you're able to do this for even a small portion of that 0.9s of flight time, you hit and do damage. It works similarly to the current system except that you have control over the missile's flight path and you can fire without locks.

Note that I'm only taking 0.9s of flight time to be equal to the MPLs burn duration. I haven't calculated the flight time.

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 09:01 PM, said:

And how harder would it be if you would need about 3s of lock-time to lock all three ATM12s before you could launch a homing target? Simmilarly how harder would it be if you need 6s of lock-time to launch all 6 SSRMs to deliver a poor light to kingdom-come?

I honestly don't know about that but what I'm proposing is to remove the lock-on system and just rely on using the Tag to guide the missiles. You can fire whenever you want and guide them to the target. Heck, LRMers now can actually manually arc their missiles up over the teammates or down into the enemies from high ground. It's just that the missiles won't or shouldn't be as manoeuvrable as the RPG from HL2.

[The6thMessenger]

FRAGTAST1C, on 12 July 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

You're misunderstanding me here. Even lasers distinguish between the good and bad players. How? The good players will focus the entire burn duration onto a single component almost every time and don't splash it over the entire enemy mech.

The point of Streaks is to trace the enemy mech, not the component. Those that can target a component with Streaks, do better than those don't. That's all. There's no attitude problem here.

And again, that's just an even worse form of lasers. At least LRMs could go over obstacles, ATMs deal a fuckton damage, the SSRMs, well, the fire-and-forget that makes them relevant is now gone. The point of the comparison with lasers is the stare-time, and you will be forced to do so when you have to retain locks, and now hilariously with tag.

Here's a thought, maybe the problem itself is the need to distinguish from good players to bad players?

FRAGTAST1C, on 12 July 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

Actually, some missiles in a cluster do miss the target. I've observed closely when I was using my Revenant with LRM 60 when I first started playing MWO and that's when I learnt that I need to move and get direct visuals on my enemy so that I can see whether or not part of my missiles aren't missing. A similar thing was happening when I was using the Ares back then. All of the missiles in two SRM6+A wouldn't hit the target if I didn't aim right.

Similarly with Streaks, they have a clustering or a grouping. If a portion of the group hits an obstacle like an elevated terrain, then that damage is lost from the whole.

And again, it's just another worse lasers. You could highlight all the difference you like, but if you're staring towards the target with barely any gimmick like IDF or fuckton damage, it's basically just another laser. And what you have is a worse one at that.

FRAGTAST1C, on 12 July 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

Yes, LRMs and ATMs require constant targeting but they can be dumb-fired. Streaks can't. With the Tag guidance, you don't need locks to fire it. You fire preemptively and then guide it if you want. That's the versatility that I'm suggesting.

FRAGTAST1C, on 12 July 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

Streaks with Tag guidance doesn't need that. You don't need perfect aim right from the start. You fire, guide the missile toward the enemy and as long as you're able to do this for even a small portion of that 0.9s of flight time, you hit and do damage. It works similarly to the current system except that you have control over the missile's flight path and you can fire without locks.

Note that I'm only taking 0.9s of flight time to be equal to the MPLs burn duration. I haven't calculated the flight time.

I see, so that's what you want to do. Instead of making the entire missile system function like HL2 Rocket Launcher, you just do it with Streaks.

To be fair, the preemptive fire and then guide is really slipped my mind. But honestly, i could still see a terrible problem here -- that the SSRMs are Short Ranged still. 360m to 270m, really? You know HL2 Rocket launcher has vast open spaces to steer the rocket with immense targets like the Gunship and Strider, the SSRMs would explode within 1.38s to 0.96s and you have to hit small targets. Halve the velocity to double the duration, even double the health, you still have a reasonably long stare-time for a short duration.

Suppose that you could preemptively shoot, that's still an awfully small window of time to steer the missile volley towards your target.

I assure you, if it was LRMs or ATMs, i would honestly be on-board with those being guided versus homed. But not Streaks, it's too short and you are literally better off with pulse-lasers for the frantic action.

FRAGTAST1C, on 12 July 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

MPLs have 0.9s of duration but they do 6.5 damage, which can be splashed. Also, they need to be aimed all the time during that duration, even IF it's a small duration.

Guess what else is splashed, Streaks. Likewise what else you could fire en-masse, and guess what weapon hits immediately -- that's right, lazors. Which means you could leg someone quickly with a couple shots, no-if-ands-or-butts so long as you land -- and you will land because it's hit-scan.

FRAGTAST1C, on 12 July 2019 - 12:24 AM, said:

I honestly don't know about that but what I'm proposing is to remove the lock-on system and just rely on using the Tag to guide the missiles. You can fire whenever you want and guide them to the target. Heck, LRMers now can actually manually arc their missiles up over the teammates or down into the enemies from high ground. It's just that the missiles won't or shouldn't be as manoeuvrable as the RPG from HL2.

And I'm telling you that's a bad idea. Not only that it's harder to do so with streaks, the LRMs and ATMs are actually doing well. If it were just a feature of TAG, I'd support it, not as a complete rework of the locking system.

The point of homing weapons is ease of use, that's why they are homing. This need to make them much like aimed weapons is just self-defeating, you might as well just leave them alone.

PhoenixFire55, on 12 July 2019 - 12:06 AM, said:

Woah woah woah ... Don't mean to be rude, but if you need 2s to target a non-ECM light with steaks then I see where the problem is ...

I said "about", and honestly you want to make this personal? Leave.

Feral Clown, on 12 July 2019 - 12:22 AM, said:

Not trying to judge them, I am directly saying that it should absolutely require the same amount of skill as using med pulse or something of the like...which is already a low bar.

And why should it require the same amount of skills? The point of having different mechanic is to have different applications, which inevitably have different skills. The point of automation is forgoing a portion of the effort for something else that opens up to different uses because of strengths. And the effort could be alloted elsewhere, like having a second man in the Machine-Gun crew so the machine-gunner could focus shooting while another focus on reloading.

You might as well ban cars and bikes, because it will out-do sprint runners.

Feral Clown, on 12 July 2019 - 12:22 AM, said:

It also would not be an improvement because chain firing is not good. That is not a reasonable trade off when alpha, twist, alpha is the name of the game.

Why not? That is exactly the point, you could only either chainfire or low-level alpha the low-exposure lights, which adequately nerfs the SSRMs without them losing their niche. Due to being hinged on exposure level to damage, this also provides a bit of linear progression of effectiveness.

Likewise if you chain-fire, you do not have to suffer the hoopla of long lock-time which allows you to be better reactive. It's all about the options and how you want to play it.

Feral Clown, on 12 July 2019 - 12:22 AM, said:

Forcing or promoting chainfiring promotes poor play.

And you're just going to say that without justification? Tell you what, maybe it is, why the **** would it adhere to the meta? Kind of the point of having different mechanics is you play it differently. Maybe stop boating so much missiles that you have to chain-fire.

Feral Clown, on 12 July 2019 - 12:22 AM, said:

Also currently ghost heat does it's job allowing players to alpha once or twice then you will be heat capped and forced to fire separate groups. 6 seconds and the multi weapons cycling through lock phase, I am telling you is just too much of a mess, and I am seeing no one on this post who thinks that'd be a good idea.

Heat-capping is one thing, but you are still nuking the lights with an immense volley of SSRMs -- or other mechs with ATMs, and that was the point. Likewise this is just a concept, the 6s thing isn't necessarily set in stone -- it could be at 4s. Likewise you could partition your volleys, we're already doing that anyways.

Feral Clown, on 12 July 2019 - 12:22 AM, said:

It is also seemingly based around streaks being OP or something, which they are not. They are too easy to use, which is true of all lock on weapons currently, but they are not ruling the game or high up on the metaboards.

Never said that they are, I just said it would be a compromise, an avenue for balance, because there are certain overperforming people who aren't fine with a supposedly cheap weapon against lights. It's ironic really, they tell other people to git-gud, but when streaks are doing their job against lights, it's OP.

Feral Clown, on 12 July 2019 - 12:22 AM, said:

Especially since there are a lot of lights with ECM. I can't recall the last time I died to streaks in my Grinner, but it has been a while. I don't really get too concerned by streaks unless I happen to be the last guy alive and I play lights and fast mediums most often.

Good, then tell them that.

This idea is just an olive branch to them.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 12 July 2019 - 01:16 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

The6thMessenger, on 12 July 2019 - 12:49 AM, said:

I said "about", and honestly you want to make this personal? Leave.

Chill dude. Its nothing personal. You base your arguments on an entirely wrong statement about 2s lock on time for Streaks on a non-ECM light. I'm just pointing it out to put things in perspective, coz if thats how long you think it takes now, I'm just wondering how long you estimate it'll take under your proposal of increased lock-on time for stacked streak launchers ... 10s? 20s?

[dario03]

The6thMessenger, on 11 July 2019 - 07:52 PM, said:

So how do you balance against a classes of mech that hinge their effectiveness on someone else's failure of having adequate aiming skills?

By making the aiming skill matter???
If a player can't hit the light well with their heavy mech then they will lose. Just like how if the player spreads damage all over the place they will lose to a player who is also in a heavy mech but aiming better.
Why should the game have a weapon counter the lower performing less used class for players lacking aim, if lacking aim also makes them lose to all classes?
Can I get a weapon that automatically headshots assault mechs?