98 replies to this topic

[JediPanther]

Not much of a live fire when the target is a stationary non-combatant with no eleven other live targets to worry about. Proto looks like he misses battle chess as much as he mentions 3d chess.



3D chess indeed right there. Or just use a real set.

[Prototelis]

Nononono. You see in another thread OP presented a ghost heat amount of regular SRMs and Streaks and called it 3d chess. And I think that is hilarious.

[Ruccus]

I'm a bit puzzled by what this is attempting to conclude. For me, against a light mech it's rare that when I fire my SRMs the reticule will be on the light mech so there won't be any convergence.

Against a light mech I'll try to wait and time it so that I hit it when it's running towards or away from me but if that's not possible I'll try to fire a 'cloud' of missiles at a point where I think the light mech will run into the cloud when it connects. In a mech like my Dervish DV-8D the four torso hardpoints and its relatively small size means the clump of missiles will be a box of missiles that should do significant damage if I'm accurate. In a wide mech like my Champion Invictus the cloud of missiles will be a rectangle, short in height but wide, so I won't do as much damage but I only have to be accurate in terms of height - the width of the rectangular cloud of missiles means I'm likely to do less damage than my DV-8D on an accurate shot but more damage on a poor shot. Also I find at aiming on the ground just past where you think the light mech will run works pretty well - you'll get partial convergence (the missiles are converging at a spot near the light mech's distance) and you'll usually hit legs.

While there are weapons that are better or worse against light mechs, in my mind fire control is the most important part of taking out a light mech. save your shots for when whatever weapon you're using is most likely to do damage and capitalize when that time comes. Wait until the light mech is running towards or away from you with FLPPD weapons, sweep the legs with efficient laser weapons (keep one eye on the heat), and if you have the heat and ammo to use them fire your spread weapons for the light mech to run into. Firing away in a panic just gives the light mech a few seconds to run around without fear of getting shot by you.

[Kubernetes]

John McClintock, on 11 July 2019 - 06:01 PM, said:

What is your hit ratio with SRM6?

If it is less than 50% (IS) Streaks are winning VS commando.

Are you hitting 100% at 269m? How about 100m? Maybe? Probably not. I can easily believe a top player could hit 50% at 100 m. On a fast mover. Maybe.

Even at 50%, streaks are still winning by a large margin.

As long as you can get a target lock, that is.

What is a Commando doing to me at that range? Nothing. The Trollmando pretty much demands that it run into point blank range and chew up your legs or your back. I've killed plenty of Commandos, Locusts, Fleas, and Piranhas with SRMs. Okay, congrats, your streaks are superior at killing 25 ton mechs at 260m. So what? Why would you take a massive, slow assault mech and create a loadout that's only effective against a quarter of the mechs on the field? My srm Assassin can kill anything from 20 to 100 tons.

[FupDup]

Kubernetes, on 11 July 2019 - 07:43 PM, said:

So what? Why would you take a massive, slow assault mech and create a loadout that's only effective against a quarter of the mechs on the field?

Because aiming is too hard.

[John McClintock]

It's pretty obvious, (at maximum engagement range) Streaks hold a major advantage, can be fired continuously vs waiting for a perfect shot (as long as you hold a lock) and disarm fast lights better than SRMs, You've have to have god level targeting to have anything close to 50% hits at max range, against a fast moving light. In fact, I'd wager most top players would struggle to get as many as 20% on target at max range vs fast lights.

I did the test on a static target, providing SRMs with as best a chance as possible to hit. Streaks don't care if the target is moving or not, as long as you hold a lock. As you saw, the streaks still reliably removed the arms of that commando, which they would do whether it was dodging or not.

See we also gave SRMs a major advantage of their own (ie static target).

The advantage of SRMs over Streaks will increase as range decreases, and as the target increases in mass.

Streaks become more usefull as the target increases in agility and decreases in mass.

For light hunting, you can see that your practical engagement range for Streaks is 0-270, where as for SRMS your practical engagement range is far, far less, if you expect to hit a reasonable amount of the time. Meaning you aren't getting a kill in ~13 salvos with SRMS (as my test against a static target showed), it will be more like 30 or 40 or more, if you are at max range. With Streaks you'll get that kill reliably in ~18 salvos whether you are at 270 or zero.

Meaning, at max engagement range Streaks are far more effective against lights, than SRMs.

I think that's pretty clear from the data.

The only question is how close do YOU have to be before SRM's hold an advantage against fast Lights.

My bet is, pretty darn close, but I posted my hit% stats, I figure if anybody that has anything significantly better they can post them, otherwise y'all are just blowing smoke.

I just called you're bluff.

[John McClintock]

Kubernetes, on 11 July 2019 - 07:43 PM, said:

What is a Commando doing to me at that range? Nothing. The Trollmando pretty much demands that it run into point blank range and chew up your legs or your back. I've killed plenty of Commandos, Locusts, Fleas, and Piranhas with SRMs. Okay, congrats, your streaks are superior at killing 25 ton mechs at 260m. So what? Why would you take a massive, slow assault mech and create a loadout that's only effective against a quarter of the mechs on the field? My srm Assassin can kill anything from 20 to 100 tons.

How long does it take for that commando or flea to close to lethal range? Is he going to even try if you Streak him a few times?

The cyclops was just an example. I haven't actually ran with either of those builds. A test bed, if you will.

I didn't know what the results would be before I started the test.

I was surprised by some of the results both negative and positive for both SRM and Streak.

It also shows both weapon systems have utility, in their own way.

[Bowelhacker]

Yeah, streaks are awesome as long as you can lock the target.

[Prototelis]

3d chess

[Kubernetes]

John McClintock, on 11 July 2019 - 08:33 PM, said:

How long does it take for that commando or flea to close to lethal range? Is he going to even try if you Streak him a few times?

If I'm carrying SRMs I want him to close to lethal range, because nine times out of ten I'm way more lethal and tankier. You're deadlier against light mechs from 250-300m, but weaker against everything else you might face. Why is that a good tradeoff? Clans can pull off some nice streakboats because their launchers are 2/3 the weight, but on the IS side I can't think of a single reason to run streaks.

[Feral Clown]

Kubernetes, on 11 July 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

If I'm carrying SRMs I want him to close to lethal range, because nine times out of ten I'm way more lethal and tankier. You're deadlier against light mechs from 250-300m, but weaker against everything else you might face. Why is that a good tradeoff? Clans can pull off some nice streakboats because their launchers are 2/3 the weight, but on the IS side I can't think of a single reason to run streaks.

Laziness. I run streakwhacker in CW because even though I could run and hunt last wave Piranha's down, it is quicker and more efficient to wipe them out in a salvo and a half. Surprising too the dps of IS streak 4's when carrying six of them isn't half bad either, and you can help out against larger mechs if needed.

[Prototelis]

CW wave 4 is a target rich environment for streaks and the bushie is stout enough that even the lights that get close can't do a significant amount of damage without getting gacked.

[Kubernetes]

Feral Clown, on 11 July 2019 - 09:51 PM, said:

Laziness. I run streakwhacker in CW because even though I could run and hunt last wave Piranha's down, it is quicker and more efficient to wipe them out in a salvo and a half. Surprising too the dps of IS streak 4's when carrying six of them isn't half bad either, and you can help out against larger mechs if needed.

That makes total sense. I'm talking about SQ, where you're extremely lucky to get 4 lights in a match. 4th Wave in CW is streak heaven if you've got the tonnage left over.

[Ruccus]

Kubernetes, on 11 July 2019 - 10:20 PM, said:

That makes total sense. I'm talking about SQ, where you're extremely lucky to get 4 lights in a match. 4th Wave in CW is streak heaven if you've got the tonnage left over.

I think in solo queue it's not about the quantity of lights but the inevitable Assault teammate or two who insists on trying to kill the one or two lights harassing him instead of getting to the front and aiming at the big enemies to do actual damage to the enemy. If you have a streakboat that can quickly put down one or two lights before your assault teammate has wasted too much time and ammunition spinning around in circles firing in desperation you'll be in a much better situation.

Too many times I've seen the enemy assaults forming a firing line while my assault teammates are playing around in the backfield with a light or two. Killing or scaring off the lights as quickly as possible can get your assaults back doing what they're supposed to be doing so you're not down by a couple mechs before they get to the front line.

[Chortles]

Streak Cyclops is probably the least dangerous build against lights. I would call out your loadout and location to my team and then proceed to avoid you the entire match. Radar Deprivation and poking from obstacles also make it impossible for streaks to lock on. With regular SRMs, you at least a chance to deal damage to a light if they poke wrong. The only time streaks can really kill a light mech is through ambush and you aren't going to ambush anyone with a Cyclops.

[Verilligo]

I don't think I entirely understand. Why are we comparing SSRM6 vs non-Artemis SRM6? For what reason would anyone be running regular SRM6s on IS? The only case I can immediately think of would be a Bushwacker, but that's a somewhat niche build. The damage on those targets is such that an ASRM6 might very well have killed by 10 volleys or possibly even sooner.

[LT. HARDCASE]

Speaking of percentages, light pilots who know how to serpentine and prove themselves an inconsistent lead for direct fire targeting are a small subset of those you encounter in Solo Queue. The rest are chum.

[John McClintock]

LT. HARDCASE, on 12 July 2019 - 01:00 PM, said:

Speaking of percentages, light pilots who know how to serpentine and prove themselves an inconsistent lead for direct fire targeting are a small subset of those you encounter in Solo Queue. The rest are chum.

Well, I certainly pilot a light like a cargo ship on the Atlantic Ocean in WW2. Straight lines are for suckas.

To be clear, the cyclops builds I posted were just test beds for the experiment, could have done the same test with a light and a single launcher, it would just take longer.

The experiment was to TEST the utility of streaks vs SRMs on a light, only one light was tested (Commando). And yes, I chose to not use Artemis.

Nobody going to post their hit%?

We have a lot of SRM proponents here, saying they are awesome at getting hits using dumbfires, you going to back that up with real stats?

I did note my own hit % was not significantly better using streaks, but my total SRM fired is relatively low. And I tend to not fire SRMs unless I feel confident of getting a hit (ie mostly at close range) Where as with streaks I'm free to fire at will out to 270m.

As to clan tech, that's a whole different animal. Slow reload time is a DPS killer, and unless you boat them you aren't going to get good kills with clan streaks alone. Even the vaunted Shadowcat has poor DPS when used as a streak boat (vs Clan SRMs)

[Kubernetes]

Dude, you've been playing this game since February. Some of us have been at this for 6+ years. Why are you trying to lecture us about weapons? You are worse than an average replacement level player and you're calling people out about stats? C'mon.

[John McClintock]

So you checked and your aim isn't much better than mine, huh? Y'all ain't working very hard to refute my premis.