1380 replies to this topic

[Sigmar Sich]

Tiantara, on 29 July 2019 - 08:24 AM, said:

It's really easy say "meh" and go away. But really strange to hear it from those who for decades love battletech and MechWarrior. Really? Love game with nearly no alternatives just when changes come say "no" and go away? Do you really love MW as mach as you say?

You know the saying "Fool me once - shame on you, fool me twice - shame on me" ?
And we were fooled more than once.

And now this, straight premeditated unambiguous deceit, not about gameplay features, but involving our blood-and-sweat earned money. Can you really blame people for having enough of this piss?

I know it is hard to let go. I can't do it myself.
But don't fall for the Stockholm syndrome.

Quote

I really believe that with MW5 we soon get new MWO on same engine and get everything what we dream about like:

I wish it was true, man, but you're fooling yourself.
I was in trapped in a same place, before this Epic fail.

[Wolk89]

Joshua McEvedy, on 29 July 2019 - 02:18 AM, said:

Yeah, I play Living Legends, and it's a great alternative, completely run and updated by volunteers. The game is necessarily a bit rougher around the edges than MWO and has some bugs, and is a completely different play experience, but it in many ways feels more realistic. Each match lasts an hour, and everybody starts with either battle armor or light mechs, and during the course of the match, you upgrade based on the C-Bills you earn during combat. It also has tanks, vehicles, and aerospace fighters you can drive or pilot. However, all the mechs (a pretty good selection of post-3058 Clan and IS) and their variants are stock and there is no way to customize or individualize outside of some set "paint" camo patterns. Still, it has a lot of potential despite being older than MWO itself. It's what MWO could have been in terms of combat.

Here's some background on Living Legends (Fast Forward to the 15:12 mark for MWLL story and how PGI buried that rival game):



Gameplay with Tex of the Black Pants Legion:



How to Guides:





How to get better mechs during matches:



Map Key:

MW:O would have been much better if the developers of MW.LL had united with each other.
MW:LL has a much better gameplay as MW:O ever had. But MW:O have the better Look.

Unfortunately, both games are doomed to death

Edited by Wolk89, 29 July 2019 - 09:42 AM.

[Alilua]

Still no responses from my emails to support about a refund. How long do we wait till we contact our cc companies/banks?

[Svarti713]

Yeah it’s misleading and frustrating that I and countless others paid $120 or other amounts for the promise of a Steam key game but the switch to Epic is unfortunate. Hell I like having all my games on Steam, but even steam has **** in the walls. Every time I forget to manually start my Skyrim and click on the icon steam automatically updates my Skyrim and I have to fix 20 hours of modding for my heavily modded Skyrim and it pisses me off. What I’m saying is Steam isn’t perfect and is just as flawed as Epic. I could give a rats *** what form MW5 releases on as long as it’s a good game, a finished game, one not loaded with micro transactions like EA filth.

For this reason and for my love of the game I’m keeping my Preorder and I look forward to the release, even if it’s released on Epic. And the devs at Piranha have my love and care for their endless hours developing Mechwarriors games that I love to play with my family and friends.

Did anyone think that hey, if we have tons of fortnite youths playing the Epic Games Launcher how much of a good thing if MW5: Mercs shows up on their home launcher how many new young and old players it will bring to the franchise? How many more people will follow the life of Mech Porn? Or how much more money PGI will make and be able to further update MW5: Mercs with DLC possibly containing a Clan Invasion? Since they can afford the development to further the game?

You sad, sad toxic tards are halting development on future content for the game with you asking of refunds. No doubt all the devs are under pressure with the breaking of news and changes that are out of most of their hands. Hell what if the switch to Epic was inevitable, you all would be unhappy still and cause a shitshow for no reason. I still stand strong, in keeping my Preorder and I’ll happily wait till December to play if it means a better polished game BECAUSE I CARE and LOVE Mechwarrior.

[Sigmar Sich]

****, where did it all go.... Drank away with poor decisions, left for dead by lack of care. Curse you, PGI!





Everyone does mistakes, smart people learn from it, but PGI seems decided no mistakes can be made when you do nothing...

Yes, time to go...

[Alienized]

Tiantara, on 29 July 2019 - 08:54 AM, said:

snip

i, personally, never had any faith MW5 would be any good because of the fact that its PGI doing it.
All the lies over the years, all the stupid things they done to the community itself.
EGS tops that out and the way it all got handled.
dont get fooled by your love for MW, we all love it thats why we are here but you shouldnt close your eyes for all the BS thats happening.
the gaming community in general never cared much about what the publishers did and look where it lead to.
this has to stop from the gaming community and put a stop to what started years ago selling only unfinished games.

i grew up a time where every half finished game got RIPPED for what it was. now it gets hyped and finished (well, maybe... star citizen anyone?) later.
and you know, the good games that came out in the 90's are still awesome except for the graphics. everything else is pretty much above everything these days.

why?

THEY HAD TO DELIVER OR DIE AS COMPANY!
in this world now you all believe the hype so much that you cant get back to a real, basic thinking and wonder that you get scammed so drastically.

[Atlai]

Krucilatoz, on 29 July 2019 - 06:21 AM, said:

Really??

I paid the pre-order using Visa debit-card, why i need to open paypal account then...

He was responding specifically to someone who used a safepay card, not about the refund process in general. It should just go back to your card, I don't see why they would go out of their way to make you use paypal, that would be more work than anything.

source/ I used to work at a customer service place that handled stuff like this, if you wanted a return and your purchase was through a debit/credit card, we just sent it back there. Pre-paid cards and safecards work a little differently if I am remembering correctly.

Grayson Sortek, on 29 July 2019 - 06:50 AM, said:

I know people who are on active duty. They reside in other countries, yet have American bank accounts. PayPal doesn't let you open an account when your home address isn't in the same country as your bank (from what they've explained to me). This means that if PGI is only willing to refund via PayPal, then they have a lawsuit coming down the line. Not only would it be a lawsuit, but they would be screwing over active duty personnel... That's not the type of PR any company wants, let alone this one.

I just quoted you so that you would see this too, since I think that the information regarding refunds and paypal got misconstrued along the way somehow.

Edited by Mason West, 29 July 2019 - 10:13 AM.

[Belogor]

Wishmast3r, on 28 July 2019 - 11:54 PM, said:

If you want to play a realistic first person shooter with mechs from the Battletech universe, there is no alternative to MWO.
If you just want to sit in a giant robot and shoot stuff, there are plenty of games out there.

MW:LL, tried it a few weeks ago ... and no thanks.

BTW it´s 1am now at PGI headquarters. Just a few more hours till some poor people from support have to go through thousands of refund emails. May the coffee be with you.

For example Vox Machinae

[Grayson Sortek]

Tiantara, on 29 July 2019 - 08:54 AM, said:

Or in conclusion we not only lost MW5 as ripped from community project with possibly more casual game-play, but also have risks don't get MWO on same engine and possible get closing MWo as not profitable. Is this really what everyone true fans of MW want?
Looks like "We so hate decision which can boost company who make our loved game, that ready to lost game forever and sit without MW games for next 20 years" Really?

Mate, you can't let them hold the MW franchise hostage like this. You can't turn a blind eye and let them bend you over a barrel just because you're afraid there won't be another MW game. Please don't attack others who don't want to put up with this anymore as "not being true MW fans"; we are very much fans of the BT/MW franchise, which is why we are tired of this crap. I don't even want to think about how much money I've given to PGI and their crappy business tactics over the years just because I want to see a MW game, all of the lies and absolute garbage that we've put up with just to have a MW game again.

There is a resurgence right now of MW and BT, and you better believe that there are others interested in creating a true MW experience without all of the baggage and dead bodies that PGI brings to the table. Maybe it's time to move on? Maybe it's time to let someone else roll with the IP for a bit and see what they can do.

[Tiantara]

Alienized, on 29 July 2019 - 10:00 AM, said:

i, personally, never had any faith MW5 would be any good because of the fact that its PGI doing it.
All the lies over the years, all the stupid things they done to the community itself.
EGS tops that out and the way it all got handled.
dont get fooled by your love for MW, we all love it thats why we are here but you shouldnt close your eyes for all the BS thats happening.
the gaming community in general never cared much about what the publishers did and look where it lead to.
this has to stop from the gaming community and put a stop to what started years ago selling only unfinished games.

i grew up a time where every half finished game got RIPPED for what it was. now it gets hyped and finished (well, maybe... star citizen anyone?) later.
and you know, the good games that came out in the 90's are still awesome except for the graphics. everything else is pretty much above everything these days.

why?

THEY HAD TO DELIVER OR DIE AS COMPANY!
in this world now you all believe the hype so much that you cant get back to a real, basic thinking and wonder that you get scammed so drastically.

- You are right and wrong in same time. I have believes in MW5 because I know potential of engine. No matter who doing game, it already have some structure bonus because of it. Next - PGI. In compare with all other - they did MWO. And when all other mech-like games already shut-down servers, MWO still alive. Even in years of really unpopular decision and really ruining gameplay implementation - PGI still make changes. I can say more - MWO not only game where you can play as Mechwarrior, but also game where you can play based on skill rather than on pay-to-win as many games do. And to provide that balance, company need really tight frames and every buck. And no wonder, when facing necessity make game good, they forced to way where need less money payed. Don't forget - UE4 in MW5 far from stock complement and all that costs some money too (PGI can't have same freedom as any other studios which have own gameengine! And in same time they need to save pay and free proportions for all payers who play for free).

I not only love MW, but also don't see any adequate alternative. In same time I remember many games which ends bad. Good games, but closed. And I don't want same here really. So, on some thing I can close my eyes. On some - not. But still I rather understand motive of PGI decision. Sometimes you can't do what you wish, but do what you can. Game Industry right now have less stability and choosing less popular but money saving decision - not a worst move.

That unstable bring us that pre-order mechanics, where developers count money as a buffer for project if something go wrong. And gamers who pay it, should understand risks, not only dreaming about collectors parts and early access. You not a buyers, you are investors. And as in real world investment - you can loose. So - check your risk and pay or not. That why calculation community mood, sums of pre-orders - PGI theoretically make decision to save money and not publish in steam. Partially - because of engine choose too. Or maybe mainly because of it. In case of own - we'll see much different picture.

I also greatly remember times when all games was published and finished. But also I remember games which sold on cd and never get fixes and updates. You have what you buy. But I never compare old games with less advanced code and GFX, with modern games which need much larger groups of developers and much advanced technology based on different drivers and hardware.
Those old games was great by mechanic, all other draw our imagination. Less games but higher quality. But mainly they was singleplayer. And developing was a bit easier than now. Cost less in many ways. From bill for energy till price of computer rent. Those times end with whole economic changes. And now we can support games we like, buy it without physical copy (which make price low), play online with many player (not 64 per server with dial-up lags) and many more.

So, die as company now - equal end of franchise for many years. Or forever. So - better choose not popular decision and stay alive, try hard and do better in future.

Belogor, on 29 July 2019 - 10:13 AM, said:

For example Vox Machinae

- Not a great alternative. By many points. Really. If say more specific - it's like playing in PTS of MWo in day of event,

[Grayson Sortek]

Tiantara, on 29 July 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

So, die as company now - equal end of franchise for many years. Or forever. So - better choose not popular decision and stay alive, try hard and do better in future.

Zathras, is that you?

[Arkansas6A]

This. This is what Epic does to games. This is what Epic does to communities. All in the name of exclusive "deals".

This. This is why I want nothing to do with them. EGS is a toxic poison to all it touches. Not PGI. Not Russ. I understand a lot of the criticism Russ and PGI get, some warranted, sometimes not. But to me, they are not the enemy. No. They were the ones, after all, producing the product we wanted. They made a horrible, irreversible decision. They felt they made the best choice possible for their business, and their decision has left us completely dumbfounded and sorely disappointed. Saruman happened because Sauron existed.

Epic is what poisoned us. EGS is what turned MW5 into a toxic cesspit. PGI has commited the lie of omission, but it was Epic that was ever honest in its disgusting hostage taking behavior. A behavior that threatens the nature of the games industry as a whole.

Epic is the real enemy.

[Sigmar Sich]

Grayson Sortek, on 29 July 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

Zathras, is that you?

[Culnan]

Tiantara, on 29 July 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

So, die as company now - equal end of franchise for many years. Or forever. So - better choose not popular decision and stay alive, try hard and do better in future.

Why would they try hard and do better though? If they can phone in substandard product and still sell it because fans are more concerned with getting something with 'MechWarrior' in the title than getting something good with 'MechWarrior' in the title, then that's what they'll do. If we're unwilling to accept that PGI can serve up a ****, that makes it far less likely that we'll ever get the truly great game we want (either by PGI doing better, or another studio taking up the license and doing better with it).

We as fans need to be more critical of products we're fans of, not give them a pass just because they're a part of our favourite franchises.

[Tiantara]

Grayson Sortek, on 29 July 2019 - 10:32 AM, said:

Mate, you can't let them hold the MW franchise hostage like this. You can't turn a blind eye and let them bend you over a barrel just because you're afraid there won't be another MW game. Please don't attack others who don't want to put up with this anymore as "not being true MW fans"; we are very much fans of the BT/MW franchise, which is why we are tired of this crap. I don't even want to think about how much money I've given to PGI and their crappy business tactics over the years just because I want to see a MW game, all of the lies and absolute garbage that we've put up with just to have a MW game again.

There is a resurgence right now of MW and BT, and you better believe that there are others interested in creating a true MW experience without all of the baggage and dead bodies that PGI brings to the table. Maybe it's time to move on? Maybe it's time to let someone else roll with the IP for a bit and see what they can do.

- Maybe. But in same time I don't see any who can make something as close as possible. And I don't say about exact mech, just something similar by drive, action, strategy, visual and so on. And in same time I can remember at least 3 games which shut-down. And 2 which not even finish developing step and die through financial lack. yeap, we got better version of MC, that great and Im lucky owner of copy. Game still have some problems and try overheat PC, but better than nothing.
But right now we have discuss not even about MW5 - but about decision (possibly financial forced) to choose EGS just because that costs less for PGI and all that saved % can be putted in developing game further.
Let's be honest... MW divided on some pieces. One - hardcore, who prefer go back to tabletop and was unhappy from the start of MWO (but still play). Second - (possibly like me) who love game with mech battle, sometimes slow and with sessions, just to fill time between work and same time feel MW3 work behind display. Third - casual players who love pew-pew, make own builds buy some stickers, gring c-bill and have fun from battles with friends or solo. First and last can go freely. Back to table or to other pew-pew games. In the middle games like me - who really love that genre of game in that implementation. And putting aside all "no-good" - we still have a game to play and possibility to group-up for events. And we really belive to MW5 can be future for MWO. Some of us pay price which can throw away anyway. No less no more. If all goes good - nice! If all go down - sad, but we do what we can to support people who make game. Not one person (to be correct - not specific person) but whole group of developers who take hard decision every day.

And yes... before move on, I want see any alternative. And I don't believe in thesis - "Ruin all old and only than build everything new". Experience say me - that don't work nowadays. Too often great on first glance projects turns out empty shell.

Grayson Sortek, on 29 July 2019 - 10:57 AM, said:

Zathras, is that you?

- Em.. who? Ah...

Edited by Tiantara, 29 July 2019 - 11:13 AM.

[Tiantara]

Culnan, on 29 July 2019 - 11:07 AM, said:

Why would they try hard and do better though? If they can phone in substandard product and still sell it because fans are more concerned with getting something with 'MechWarrior' in the title than getting something good with 'MechWarrior' in the title, then that's what they'll do. If we're unwilling to accept that PGI can serve up a ****, that makes it far less likely that we'll ever get the truly great game we want (either by PGI doing better, or another studio taking up the license and doing better with it).

We as fans need to be more critical of products we're fans of, not give them a pass just because they're a part of our favourite franchises.

- There need to be specific. All comments above not about the game which quality as finished product still unknown. It's about changes in providing pre-orders version, which was forced by financial obstacles and can greatly help company to put more buck in developing that by choosing old patch to move. As fans we can provide critics to product. And we did when some changes in MWO was unbearable. Right now we kick game which not come to live... emm what? How we help game become better by saying something "Steam or better no one get game at all". Really...
I prefer game based on MechWarrior with acceptable quality than having no game at all. Because in second variant - we have nothing to discuss and improve by commenting.
So yes... we, as fans, must be critical to product, but not to decision which was made to take financial burden from company shoulders. I think it's a really big difference here. Let them make and publish game, and than say "meh" or "wow".

[Alienized]

Tiantara, on 29 July 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

snip

going back to MW4 really isnt bad. or mech commander 2. propably still better than MW5 will ever be.
thats how much i trust PGI by now.

[Grayson Sortek]

Tiantara, on 29 July 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:

- There need to be specific. All comments above not about the game which quality as finished product still unknown. It's about changes in providing pre-orders version, which was forced by financial obstacles and can greatly help company to put more buck in developing that by choosing old patch to move. As fans we can provide critics to product. And we did when some changes in MWO was unbearable. Right now we kick game which not come to live... emm what? How we help game become better by saying something "Steam or better no one get game at all". Really...
I prefer game based on MechWarrior with acceptable quality than having no game at all. Because in second variant - we have nothing to discuss and improve by commenting.
So yes... we, as fans, must be critical to product, but not to decision which was made to take financial burden from company shoulders. I think it's a really big difference here. Let them make and publish game, and than say "meh" or "wow".

I tell you what. I can't wait to review it!

...On Steam, GoG, or any other platform that isn't EGS, because I don't want to support those corporate decisions. Even then I'm not going to pay full price for a game that is over a year old at that point and give them another launch sale. The only way companies pay attention is when you vote with your wallet, which is exactly what a lot of us are doing.

You know as well as I do that there are a lot of features and functionality that they are relying on Epic to develop right? Example: Epic might not have the same community/friends interactions ANY other launcher has (Ubi, GoG, Steam, etc.) and thus we might have to connect (as Russ suggested) the old school way with direct IP! Oh except that Russ said that they weren't looking at adding that component into the game for you to access... you would have to modify the files yourself; brilliant.

Russ also said that you can download it from EGS, then uninstall EGS and launch MW5 right from the .exe! Except that with Subnautica they removed the ability to do that because it's a damn DRM platform. So... That was a lie as well. It looks like the game is going to be horribly mutilated and chopped down for the sake of launching on EGS.

So yea, even without going into the myriad of issues that the EGS has, and only focusing on MW5, it looks like we are pretty boned. Why would I, or any of the rest of us who have been playing BT and MW games since the late 80s/early 90s stick with this? Why would we when we can explore alternatives?

I for one will be making first impression videos of Vox Machinae and MechWarrior Living Legends and drawing direct comparisons to my experiences in MWO. As for MW5; like I said, I can't wait to review it when it comes out on other platforms. If it doesn't make it that far, then I'll be happy to review whatever is produced by the next holder of the IP.

[Tiantara]

Alienized, on 29 July 2019 - 11:30 AM, said:

going back to MW4 really isnt bad. or mech commander 2. propably still better than MW5 will ever be.
thats how much i trust PGI by now.

- You can always go back to MW4, since it really cheap and sold with some fixes. But go back to MC or MC2 is a bit harder if you have not old PC... Sad, but even latest version available in store - works really bad. And that sad.
And... no... I think MW5 will be good. Not perfect (no one game perfect in first 3-4 month), but good. As any based on UE4 games I ever see (or have possibility to work with).
So, seems I save some trust in PGI developer group.

[Ruediger Steiner]

Why? Why the hell would they try harder, if you accept every ******** they do?

Quote

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.