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Mechwarrior 5 Release Date & Epic Games Store Exclusivity


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#1121 Prototelis

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 04:49 PM

View PostTarl Cabot, on 01 August 2019 - 01:56 PM, said:

only utilizes PART of the engine crit lore,


I think what you meant here was "only approximates one of the dumbest ways arbitrary board game mechanics inform lore and how that is applied to an action game, and does so in a bad way"

Engine crits in tabletop are meant to inhibit dissipation; something that already happened on ST loss.

The board game rules might be there own kind of dumb; but getting Chris'd (ST heat spike) is one of the most unfun aspects of the game.

RNG is so really unrewarding in action games; we need less of it.

#1122 Sigmar Sich

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 05:11 PM

Was refreshing my memory on some old stuff, stumbled upon quite a fitting piece Posted Image
Posted Image

#1123 Akillius

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 07:03 PM

View PostRed Potato Standing By, on 01 August 2019 - 06:55 AM, said:

If they have done something against the law why doesn’t someone report it? I mean it is in plain sight what they have done and if internet lawyers and detectives can see it, it should be an open and shut case. I suspect they haven’t done anything wrong and were smart enough to make sure everything is legit( I suspect they had not internet lawyers reviewing everything)


Your not familiar with lawsuits?
Your choices under Canadian law are interesting and most will likely go no where fast.

For example:
Provable damages are under $1000.00 CDN so you go to Small Claims Court.
You (Claimant) pay cash to file your claim against PGI with the courts and to have the courts serve notice to PGI (defendant).
The day finally arrives when you get to stand in court before a judge who looks at how much you paid...
Then hears from PGI's lawyer that a refund for the same amount was offered...
Judge finds for the defendant, orders you to pay all their legal fees, and admonishes you for for wasting the courts time.
If you lucky the judge will just yell at you and dismiss the case and unlikely but its faintly possible the judge will explain to you that next time you might be found for vexatious litigation.

Filing any type of Criminal provision will pretty much occur that same way as above.
- You must prove any damages (how much money your out of pocket).
- PGI counters with full refund was offered and would leave all bonus items in MWO intact on your account.
- Judge dismisses case, or finds you guilty of wasting the courts time, or finds for the defendant and orders you to pay all their legal fees.

Filing any type of Civil provision is very different.
- You don't need to prove any damages
- You are out of pocket for all your court filling fees and legal fees
- You must be prepared to have this work its way through the courts, all the way up to the Supreme Court of Canada
It will take years, usually costs millions of dollars and risk a dismissal for taking too long to resolve after a decade or two.
- However...... IF a judge finds the defendant guilty then you will get absolutely nothing in return.


Actually, in return you get to be hated, mocked, and insulted like harmony gold by the majority of true BT enthusiasts.

#1124 Jackal Noble

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 07:14 PM

Uninstalled MWO a second time in the last two weeks after the news. First time, because after being a member of this community for so long, you tend to see PGI's actions before they materialize. Still salty. Not about the Epic Store sell out, but how it was handled. Absolutely shoddy, piss poor and is still being handled in a piss poor fashion as far as I'm concerned.

Say you are a company, such as PGI, and you have been just pandering your product in such a way because it's the only thing you know and it allows you to stay functioning (albeit barely, in large part to bad decision making and lack of actual transparency with your customer base) and along comes Epic with the Golden Egg of exclusivity. Yay what a lucky day!! You can finally grow up out of your amateur roots and sprout some serious quality games that will make your company a force to be reckoned with in the industry. Or can you? Maybe all that money is going to amount to jack squat if you don't look yourself in the mirror and review the very customer practices that landed you where you have been for the last 7 years.

Edited by Jackal Noble, 01 August 2019 - 07:16 PM.


#1125 Leif Heggland

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 07:55 PM

Bad move PGI. I haven't pre-ordered a game in 10 years but I made an exception for this one. Should have known that I'd get burned. If you announce key portability or a direct download option when your stupid contract is over I might not request a refund. I was really looking forward to playing this this fall. Since I will not touch the Epic game store ever I guess I am waiting until next year.

I think you shot yourselves in the foot here, 90% of poor sales isn't an improvement over 70% of good sales. You should have stuck with a multi-platform launch.

#1126 ingramli

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 09:07 PM

View PostRuccus, on 01 August 2019 - 08:21 AM, said:

The preorder bonuses were actually pretty exceptional for MW5. That being said, I'm still waiting for clarification of whether those who bought the preorder will be given a Steam key after the Epic Game Store exclusivity has expired.

I figure there will be three outcomes:

1. The Community Preorders will get an Epic Game Store key for the December 2019 release and that's it.
2. The Community Preorders will get an Epic Game Store key for the December 2019 release. If you do not use your Epic Game Store key you can request a Steam key or GOG key in December 2020 to fulfill the preorder.
3. The Community Preorders will get an Epic Game Store key for the December 2019 release and they'll also get a Steam and/or GOG key for the December 2020 release of the game after the Epic Game Store exclusive has expired.

If by the middle of August the first option is made clear or options two or three have not been made clear I'll be asking for a refund. If they announce option two I'll keep my preorder and wait for December 2020. If they announce option three I'll keep my preorder and might create an Epic Game Store account to download the game.

Russ has made it clear, "NO"(1)

#1127 Ruediger Steiner

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 11:43 PM

View PostTiantara, on 01 August 2019 - 12:59 PM, said:

- If you hate game so much - hate.

So you can´t recognize obvious sarcasm? Posted Image
I love the game, i hate the developer.

View PostTiantara, on 01 August 2019 - 12:59 PM, said:

There many gamers who still love that game and want it become better, not mentioned high possibility to move MWO to MW5 engine in future with all good what UE4 brings to games.

And again, you are delusional. Posted Image

View PostTiantara, on 01 August 2019 - 12:59 PM, said:

I wish my game never get such players like you when it finished.

Ditto!
You remind me of a player from yesterday, stating that it would be best on HPG to fight in the basement ... Players who know **** about the game, gameplay or teamplay, who think they are highly skilled and know everything. I hate those kind of players. Of course we lost 3-12 and he left the game with 200 damage in an assault.
You know nothing about PGI or Russ, all you want to do is play a game after work and relax. Fine. But stop attacking players who know PGI, who want to change the game for the better and know more about the game then you will ever know.
Believing that some day, with a "high possibility", MWO will be moved to MW5 shows how less you know about the game, PGI and Russ.
If MW5 will succeed they will turn MW5 into MWO 2. Starting all over again, selling mech pack after mech pack.
MWO, all your mechs and everything in it, will be shut down.

#1128 Koniving

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Posted 01 August 2019 - 11:51 PM

View PostCmdrA, on 30 July 2019 - 07:56 AM, said:

"Most likely" is not a 100% guarantee


PGI chooses now to learn the lesson of not making promises.
Community Warfare by 2012...
Steam Release in September.

I agree its worrisome, but honestly if it said they will come out for Steam/GoG... would you believe them at this point?

#1129 Ruccus

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:07 AM

View Postingramli, on 01 August 2019 - 09:07 PM, said:


Russ has made it clear, "NO"(1)


He made it clear that we would not get a Steam key for December 2019. During the most recent AMA when asked about a Steam key for December 2020 after the Epic Game Store exclusive has expired he said it wasn't something he'd even thought about.

Edited by Ruccus, 02 August 2019 - 12:08 AM.


#1130 ingramli

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:37 AM

View PostRuccus, on 02 August 2019 - 12:07 AM, said:

He made it clear that we would not get a Steam key for December 2019. During the most recent AMA when asked about a Steam key for December 2020 after the Epic Game Store exclusive has expired he said it wasn't something he'd even thought about.

Ok so it is up to "the absolute discretion of his majesty" then, GL.

#1131 Nicholas Hyde

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 12:41 AM

It is possible that they haven't laid out plans yet for the time past the exclusivity period. They'd be dumb to promise (again) on sth that is not yet decided or at least very, very likely.

#1132 Horseman

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 01:40 AM

View PostSigmar Sich, on 01 August 2019 - 05:11 PM, said:

Was refreshing my memory on some old stuff, stumbled upon quite a fitting piece Posted Image
Posted Image

That implies more competence than has been on display here. The correct alignment would be Stupid Evil - almost the same as Neutral Evil, except entirely focused on short term gain and prone to harming their own long term prospects

#1133 Laser Vomit Active And Firing

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:05 AM

epic store exclusive just another game I'm dumping glad i didn't pre-order

#1134 Horseman

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:08 AM

View PostRuccus, on 02 August 2019 - 12:07 AM, said:

He made it clear that we would not get a Steam key for December 2019. During the most recent AMA when asked about a Steam key for December 2020 after the Epic Game Store exclusive has expired he said it wasn't something he'd even thought about.
Keep pressuring him and support. If there's no demand there will be no serious consideration.

#1135 anfadern

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 02:21 AM

Just wanted to express how I feel about the situation.

I am one of tose old farts that have been around for a long, long time. I played the original games and was an early backer of MWO. As soon as MW5 was announced I signed up for the game thinking that it will become a natural step in the evolution of the game.

Now I have requested a refund. I doubt that there will be a MW5
I will order the game if it is relesased at some Point in the future.
Until that point the money stays in my pocket.

#1136 Mykor

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 03:30 AM

View PostSigmar Sich, on 01 August 2019 - 05:11 PM, said:

Was refreshing my memory on some old stuff, stumbled upon quite a fitting piece Posted Image
Posted Image

View PostHorseman, on 02 August 2019 - 01:40 AM, said:


That implies more competence than has been on display here. The correct alignment would be Stupid Evil - almost the same as Neutral Evil, except entirely focused on short term gain and prone to harming their own long term prospects


I was dying laughing when I saw these post but yet so true. Points to you both.

#1137 Tiantara

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 07:03 AM

View PostWishmast3r, on 01 August 2019 - 11:43 PM, said:

So you can´t recognize obvious sarcasm? Posted Image
I love the game, i hate the developer.


- One connected to other. Without developers - we have no game at all. Without everything they do - we have no game again. Yeap, they can make mistakes or do something opposite of everyone wanted. But not only because of their free will. I wonder how any players think that they know everything about making games. Like it something every-time fun, forgetting about many obstacles - like financial problem, game engine restriction, short time and many others thing. In your post it's looks like - "If you can't do awesome - don't do anything, shut-down and go away, we'll wait another 10-20-30years". Right?

View PostWishmast3r, on 01 August 2019 - 11:43 PM, said:

Ditto!
You remind me of a player from yesterday, stating that it would be best on HPG to fight in the basement ... Players who know **** about the game, gameplay or teamplay, who think they are highly skilled and know everything. I hate those kind of players. Of course we lost 3-12 and he left the game with 200 damage in an assault.
You know nothing about PGI or Russ, all you want to do is play a game after work and relax. Fine. But stop attacking players who know PGI, who want to change the game for the better and know more about the game then you will ever know.
Believing that some day, with a "high possibility", MWO will be moved to MW5 shows how less you know about the game, PGI and Russ.
If MW5 will succeed they will turn MW5 into MWO 2. Starting all over again, selling mech pack after mech pack.
MWO, all your mechs and everything in it, will be shut down.


- In same time you remind me players who play many games, make some reviews, and think that they can make own game easily, why not, it not so hard to do. Some of those who prefer grind loot on event, but not go to test servers when it needed. Why bother, right? Many changes which PGI made was based on empty statistic of empty Test Servers!

So yes... depending on game mode - HPG basement defend more than good plan if mech with high alpha or high overall damage go down and some light and medium mech force enemy to jump on lover level right under fire. Most time - backside turned to weapon. But nooo... "game knowing players" starting rotation in nascar, without need. Leaving behind slow mech with high damage without cover and loosing with 0-12. Oh yes, because they think they skilled and can play without some heavy and assault mech, trying use their armor as shield for own 13-20-26 damage weapons. Yeaaah nice trade!

Maybe I don't know about PGI and Russ (because I don't work in PGI or with Russ), but I pretty well know about game developing and pipelines in game production. And I can see where developers must do better things, and where they must but can't do because of many restrictions which gamers can't see. Developer can have great idea of improving game mechanic, but engine restriction, heavy coding or lacks of specialists in that sphere - forbode implement it in game.

Also I pretty well known about weak points of current engine of MWO (not stating fact that engine old and clumsy), as well as power of UE4. Not Russ, not PGI (artist, programmers and modelers of which do everything they can), but knowledge of game engine drive me to have believe in MWO on UE4 engine in future, after MW5.
Yes, mech pack - it's a content which must be in game. Yes - skills and some other progress may lost (but not already purchased mechs). But in same time developers got engine with more proper support, better technology, more optimized use of PC hardware and in same time slightly better netcode. And with all that - chance to implement in game everything what community wait for without many of current restrictions.
And if \ when that not happens - you have all right to say that PGI screw up and you was right.

#1138 Ruediger Steiner

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 07:57 AM

View PostTiantara, on 02 August 2019 - 07:03 AM, said:

Yeap, they can make mistakes or do something opposite of everyone wanted. But not only because of their free will. I wonder how any players think that they know everything about making games. Like it something every-time fun, forgetting about many obstacles - like financial problem, game engine restriction, short time and many others thing. In your post it's looks like - "If you can't do awesome - don't do anything, shut-down and go away, we'll wait another 10-20-30years". Right?

You just don´t get it. Let´s for example take the last patch and the FP disaster.
Was it a financial problem? No.
Had it anything to do with game engine restrictions? No.
Short time? No.
Did they screw FP cause of their arrogance, thinking they know better what the players want in FP? Yes.
You see, when i blame PGI for mistakes, i don´t blame them for problems over which they have no influence. It´s the problems they cause for the players that are easily avoidable, if you use your brain for more than 5 seconds or if you play your own game for more than 5 minutes a year. They implement things that took weeks or months of development, where a normal player like me, who played this game for 3 years almost every day, would immediately say no, that´s a bad idea. Don´t even bother to think about implementing this in the game.
We are all human beings, everybody makes mistakes and nobody is perfect. But PGI isn´t learning from their mistakes. They are doing the same mistakes over and over and over. Why? Arrogance. That is the only possible answer for doing so many avoidable mistakes in the last years.
And on top of that, after all those avoidable mistakes, Russ is lying in our faces. There is a point where i have to say i´m not supporting PGI anymore. And that point has been reached. If you can ignore all that arrogance and lies, just because you want a new Mechwarrior, fine. But stop telling me and others here we are the bad guys for telling the truths, just because you live in constant fear of losing MW5.

Edited by Wishmast3r, 02 August 2019 - 07:59 AM.


#1139 Tiantara

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 09:11 AM

View PostWishmast3r, on 02 August 2019 - 07:57 AM, said:

You just don´t get it. Let´s for example take the last patch and the FP disaster.
Was it a financial problem? No.
Had it anything to do with game engine restrictions? No.
Short time? No.
Did they screw FP cause of their arrogance, thinking they know better what the players want in FP? Yes.
You see, when i blame PGI for mistakes, i don´t blame them for problems over which they have no influence. It´s the problems they cause for the players that are easily avoidable, if you use your brain for more than 5 seconds or if you play your own game for more than 5 minutes a year. They implement things that took weeks or months of development, where a normal player like me, who played this game for 3 years almost every day, would immediately say no, that´s a bad idea. Don´t even bother to think about implementing this in the game.
We are all human beings, everybody makes mistakes and nobody is perfect. But PGI isn´t learning from their mistakes. They are doing the same mistakes over and over and over. Why? Arrogance. That is the only possible answer for doing so many avoidable mistakes in the last years.
And on top of that, after all those avoidable mistakes, Russ is lying in our faces. There is a point where i have to say i´m not supporting PGI anymore. And that point has been reached. If you can ignore all that arrogance and lies, just because you want a new Mechwarrior, fine. But stop telling me and others here we are the bad guys for telling the truths, just because you live in constant fear of losing MW5.


- Well, last FP patch was intended to change position Clan vs Inner Sphere only. That nice. Also provide faster change between sides of conflict for mo dynamic and provide less bottleneck where you can't play in FP because opposing side have no players at all. I play FP really often and clearly remember inability to find match because both sides whines. I'm merc in FP conflict. I not support players who stick with one side and play it till the end. But in same time I understand them and see many variation to change that.
1. - More FP maps in rotation, less quick-play modes at all. I know why PGI put them, because less players who play tactically stay in game. So - new players better play in mode like quick-play and we have what we have.
2. - With adding storyline like conflict we get possibility to play whatever it is. Better change sides, make more ajustments between phases so prevent things like - no enemy to fight with with autowin ends after waiting for 15 min. At least we have countdown and numbers of opponents.

So, yes, they think what they know better. But in same time - how many players was on test servers when that decision come out? Every time I came to test - I see noone from those who later critique decision of PGI. As well as community hawe less players who prefer long play on long maps for FP and much more players who like quick-game-like maps but in FP mode. And I can tell you why - because FP always was unfriendly to new players as community. One mistake and green pilot was doomed to hear really unpleasant things, but not advice or supports.
Come-on, even now most of "true players" prefer use use armor of other mech as bite, but not use firepower of that mech for advantage. Team give enemy mech with 80 damage power just to scratch their shoulders but cannot support mech which can greatly damage enemy with 2-3 direct shots and take most of armor and some weapon and HS as well. Sometime need to change strategy and really play as team. Changes can be good or not, but play depend on players in first place. If everything you want - damage, score, and own glory, gameplay become blank even if everything was good. Just look on other competitive games and changes there.

So I see that changes was not perfect. And also I see why they made. Also, sometime need to check what commutity say 2-3 moth before and you see, that something changes when developing was in the way. Sometimes only goal was change bottleneck thing in a first place. Than - others thing less vital. But players prefer not to test it and say what need to do, but what don't need. To be more specific... if I say you don't do one thing, you have plenty thing to do and pretty sure they also go bad. But if I say specific and correct what and why you need do something - you do it, because of no other options. Agree? Same here.
Players say what they don't want to see in game. But less specific what they want see. And only little amount of players can clearly bring visions to dev-community. Sorry, but that true. Aspecially if some players by that want take advantage over others. So, Developers need to balance between many points. Make as some of players want. Check result of research from statistics based on test on PTS. Compare all that with own possibility to do that by changing parts of Game Engine, and in same time put something what less time and resource consuming in final. It's really hard.

I don't call anyone bad or good. I have position as player and as part of game developing community as well, so that give me ability to see problems from both sides, as gamer who love games and as dev who see all underwater cliffs of game making process and why something can't be done as mentioned. And yes, sometimes really hard to say "sorry we can't do that and we must do it much different" when you care for project and think that in last time you do like everyone wishes.
But so again... we have something already working and have possibilities that become better. That much better than game which looks good on presentation and never published at all. After all PGI do great work to make game which still alive. Admire it.

#1140 Venturestein

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 09:24 AM

View PostGrimm Shado, on 25 July 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

*flame retardant suit*
I won't be cancelling my preorder.
When I preordered I decided I was OK with throwing $50 away on the chance to play a new MW single player game.
In general I can't stand PVP multiplayer but sometimes enjoy MWO. As a casual gamer I personally enjoy what PGI produced in MWO.
I wasn't pre-ordering because it was on Steam, but because I wanted a new MW game.
I understand others hate Epic and will cancel on principal. I think everyone should follow their conscience.
I think going back on promises to customers is generally very bad. PGI softened up their refund policy for this decision, which reduces but doesn't cancel the bad of changing the deal. Steam vs Epic is not important enough to me to want to cancel my pre-order, that's how I feel personally.
*/flame retardant suit*

HERE HERE SIR OR MADAM AS THE CASE MAY BE!!!! Gamers have become so petty and ridiculous over the smallest thing. Each Dev will do this eventually. The internet that existed when STEAM first came out doesnt exist any more. The new age will mean the DEVS wont need the exposure steam provides and therefore each AAA will all be coming out with their own launchers. Just like Netflix Steam is going to see their monopoly slow get chipped away. AND THANK GOD FOR IT!!!!





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