280 replies to this topic

[Gagis]

Its a game, and games need stats and matchmaking that can work on those stats. Its meaningful part of how games are.

Please don't insert "stats are meaningless" into every thread, especially one about matchmaking. No one wants a completely random matchmaker that does not take into account statistics of how players have performed in the past. Don't even try to pretend you would want that.

My pet rant about how an Elo system could have been easily fixed got buried under a pointless pissing contests. That makes me pissed.

[Feral Clown]

Foxwalker, on 15 August 2019 - 02:31 PM, said:

Looked at those stats of yours. 177 games? Base the stats on that small a sample can not be more meaningless. Not that you are doing badly. From what I see you seem to be a solid player. Congrats! But still. Just A GAME.

Yup just a game captain obvious.

I also have lots of accounts and have been around a long time.

My point is that we don't have a system that separates the bad players in the game from the good. So being stuck with someone who isn't even interested at playing at a 1 to 1 level is a drag to play with. Makes the game, which presumably is supposed to be fun for us all less fun.

[Foxwalker]

Gagis, on 15 August 2019 - 02:48 PM, said:

Its a game, and games need stats and matchmaking that can work on those stats. Its meaningful part of how games are.

Please don't insert "stats are meaningless" into every thread, especially one about matchmaking. No one wants a completely random matchmaker that does not take into account statistics of how players have performed in the past. Don't even try to pretend you would want that.

My pet rant about how an Elo system could have been easily fixed got buried under a pointless pissing contests. That makes me pissed.

I am sorry. You are right about that stuff. I am wrong. Stats can have meaning, I am just not sure if the ones we are seeing are that meaningful related to how well a person does in this game.

Look I know, being in T1 matches me up against a lot of players that make me feel like an ant fighting Godzilla. I think I am an OK player, but not a great one.

Feral Clown, on 15 August 2019 - 02:48 PM, said:

Yup just a game captain obvious.

I also have lots of accounts and have been around a long time.

My point is that we don't have a system that separates the bad players in the game from the good. So being stuck with someone who isn't even interested at playing at a 1 to 1 level is a drag to play with. Makes the game, which presumably is supposed to be fun for us all less fun.

Sorry about my rant. I know that a better matchmaker would be good. As I said I am an OK player often pitted against the really amazing players. Thanks,

[Kubernetes]

Foxwalker, on 15 August 2019 - 03:24 PM, said:

I am sorry. You are right about that stuff. I am wrong. Stats can have meaning, I am just not sure if the ones we are seeing are that meaningful related to how well a person does in this game.

You only believe that because your stats are unimpressive. Are we supposed to think it's a coincidence that all the known elite players have amazing stats? I know many who only play SQ and they're rocking ridiculous WLR, KDR, MS. That can't be chance. The difference between a 1.0 WLR player and a 3.0 WLR player is massive; nobody lucks into a 3.0 WLR unless they played an insignificant number of games.

Your other objection is that players can game stats with meta builds. Okay, I'll bite: What is a meta build? Define the meta for us. Which particular builds are these elite 1%ers all running? Seeing that you avoid such builds it should be no problem for you to tell us what these guys are running.

[Feral Clown]

Foxwalker, on 15 August 2019 - 03:24 PM, said:

I am sorry. You are right about that stuff. I am wrong. Stats can have meaning, I am just not sure if the ones we are seeing are that meaningful related to how well a person does in this game.

Look I know, being in T1 matches me up against a lot of players that make me feel like an ant fighting Godzilla. I think I am an OK player, but not a great one.



Sorry about my rant. I know that a better matchmaker would be good. As I said I am an OK player often pitted against the really amazing players. Thanks,

LOL but you aren't ok, you are far below average. It's not a big deal or anything after all it's just a game. Just highlights issues with current system.

[Alienized]

Kubernetes, on 15 August 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

You only believe that because your stats are unimpressive. Are we supposed to think it's a coincidence that all the known elite players have amazing stats? I know many who only play SQ and they're rocking ridiculous WLR, KDR, MS. That can't be chance. The difference between a 1.0 WLR player and a 3.0 WLR player is massive; nobody lucks into a 3.0 WLR unless they played an insignificant number of games.

Your other objection is that players can game stats with meta builds. Okay, I'll bite: What is a meta build? Define the meta for us. Which particular builds are these elite 1%ers all running? Seeing that you avoid such builds it should be no problem for you to tell us what these guys are running.

at the top 2% it doesnt have much to do with builds.
up until 98% it might have but meh.
im at 97% myself with a quite bad aim, could work on it but its a physical limitation i just have to deal with and slower reactions never playing meta but with alot of hard work how to do things different so i can be at least good enough most of the time.

im more fed up that even the top 1% players are only seen with cheese like VGL-3's. (well hello there 1eon)
that combination is barely beatable.

builds might have a difference if 2 players go 1vs1 against each other but in a 12vs12 battle? the top 2 % could and SHOULD drive more diverse stuff.

[Bowelhacker]

I'm a pretty shite player and I think you're all statswankers. How about that?

[Kubernetes]

Alienized, on 15 August 2019 - 03:55 PM, said:

at the top 2% it doesnt have much to do with builds.
up until 98% it might have but meh.

It makes a difference, but the general baseline is 'don't bring trash builds.'. There is a ton of variety these days in terms of viable weapons and styles. I've played this whole month with three mechs (Vulcan 5T, Rifleman 8D, Top Dog) and have used three weapons (MPL, ML, LB10x), not exactly OP cheesebuilds.

Quote

Im more fed up that even the top 1% players are only seen with cheese like VGL-3's. (well hello there 1eon)
that combination is barely beatable.

Yeah I'm pretty tired of Veagles everywhere too, but I'd give 1e0n a break--he really is a great pilot and can wreck face with any weapon. I think it's far more obnoxious when a top pilot drops in a MCII-B or DS--that's just silly easy mode.

[Foxwalker]

Wow. Even after I have apologized, and admitted I could be wrong, some of you people continue to attack me. I can't say, I am surprised. Some have complained about the general saltiness of the MWO players.

Honestly, never called you names or been rude and tried to be civil, while you continue. Kick a guy while he is offering, reconciliation... Just wow

[Feral Clown]

Foxwalker, on 15 August 2019 - 05:42 PM, said:

Wow. Even after I have apologized, and admitted I could be wrong, some of you people continue to attack me. I can't say, I am surprised. Some have complained about the general saltiness of the MWO players.

Honestly, never called you names or been rude and tried to be civil, while you continue. Kick a guy while he is offering, reconciliation... Just wow

I was polite but honest. Sorry you don't get that. Just a game though so on to the next match. Have a good evening.

[GuardDogg]

Gagis, on 15 August 2019 - 02:48 PM, said:

Its a game, and games need stats and matchmaking that can work on those stats. Its meaningful part of how games are.

Please don't insert "stats are meaningless" into every thread, especially one about matchmaking. No one wants a completely random matchmaker that does not take into account statistics of how players have performed in the past. Don't even try to pretend you would want that.

My pet rant about how an Elo system could have been easily fixed got buried under a pointless pissing contests. That makes me pissed.

"It's a game, and games need stats."

Not in MWO, if you noticed not only PGI helped chase away players (broken game), age, but stats did as well. If you haven't noticed. Stats, brings out a toxic environment. Attacking people in forums, just for saying anything. I dunno how anyone can say "It's a game" and "games need stats" in one sentence. It is like saying, "be calm, have fun, enjoy", and then "get good." at same time. MWO is not a first person shooter you can re spawn after you get killed.

[Feral Clown]

GuardDogg, on 15 August 2019 - 10:08 PM, said:

"It's a game, and games need stats."

Not in MWO, if you noticed not only PGI helped chase away players (broken game), age, but stats did as well. If you haven't noticed. Stats, brings out a toxic environment. Attacking people in forums, just for saying anything. I dunno how anyone can say "It's a game" and "games need stats" in one sentence. It is like saying, "be calm, have fun, enjoy", and then "get good." at same time. MWO is not a first person shooter you can re spawn after you get killed.

All games especially ones that are competitive need stats. Yes stats often show when someone has no idea what they are talking about, but they also should be used for people to track their own progress. People that say they don't care about stats are saying they don't care about trying to improve. If you play something like a game, as you go on it kinda makes sense to want to get better at it.

[Lethe Wyvern]

yoloQ was a honk world already year ago. Ur new here?

[GuardDogg]

Feral Clown, on 15 August 2019 - 10:12 PM, said:

All games especially ones that are competitive need stats. Yes stats often show when someone has no idea what they are talking about, but they also should be used for people to track their own progress. People that say they don't care about stats are saying they don't care about trying to improve. If you play something like a game, as you go on it kinda makes sense to want to get better at it.

I am sure many would want try to improve, even though say do not care about stats. People will come into the forums, about a problem, and right away, people will look at the stats, and then the trolling starts "You have no right to say anything, because you suck in MWO". Just have to look at the date they started playing, signed up, and take it from there. In MWO, the salt is very strong due to stats, not about helping a pilot, or an issue. Stats can bring an embarrassment for those who like to improve. See those stats? You think anyone who starts playing MWO now, is going to top those top pilots? Never. Why even try.

[color=#000000]Current active players: 34,906[/color]
[color=#000000]Current retired players: 237,430[/color]

What happened from 237,430 and that is not including those from Steam?

Edited by GuardDogg, 15 August 2019 - 10:55 PM.

[Feral Clown]

GuardDogg, on 15 August 2019 - 10:48 PM, said:

I am sure many would want try to improve, even though say do not care about stats. People will come into the forums, about a problem, and right away, people will look at the stats, and then the trolling starts "You have no right to say anything, because you suck in MWO". Just have to look at the date they started playing, signed up, and take it from there. In MWO, the salt is very strong due to stats, not about helping a pilot, or an issue. Stats can bring an embarrassment for those who like to improve. See those stats? You think anyone who starts playing MWO now, is going to top those top pilots? Never. Why even try.

[color=#000000]Current active players: 34,906[/color]
[color=#000000]Current retired players: 237,430[/color]

What happened from 237,430 and that is not including those from Steam?

MWO losing players after Russ's announcement and you somehow equate it to toxicity.

Players stats come up when people are talking out of their *** when they should be listening.

[GuardDogg]

Feral Clown, on 15 August 2019 - 11:16 PM, said:

MWO losing players after Russ's announcement and you somehow equate it to toxicity.

Players stats come up when people are talking out of their *** when they should be listening.

MWO was losing players way before the announcement, and more after. Many factors are taking a role for MWO. The age of MWO, other game interests, Broken game, personal issues (moving, kids, other job, financial strain, computer specs, etc), stats is a factor, toxic environment in forums (think kids can play this game in this environment? Nope), and of course Russ's announcement. Maybe one reason why PGI maybe to shut off the servers to MWO, due to its toxic environment. What happens if a pilot was really good in his stats, then a personal issue arrived, then a month (or what ever) later the stats crumble? Then makes a topic in forum. Right away, boom stats, then saying "you suck!", and then the pilot is not able to perform like he or she used to. Stats are for re spawn fps games, like cod, strategy games, world of tanks, world of warships or stuff like that. Not MWO.

Edited by GuardDogg, 15 August 2019 - 11:58 PM.

[Paul Meyers DEST]

1. I didnt want to blame anyone with posting these stats. I actually filterd the last 6 Seasons cause i gifted me a new Computer in december You can remove the filter if you want, the argument stays the same. I shouldnt be Tier 1 because i am not good enough. Or in other words i shouldnt be matched with replayboy for example.
2. For sure the stats are important and you can game them but there is not so much influence in total. For example justcallmeash is sometimes doing trash builds on his stream and performs better with an XL KingCrab 4ac2 2lrm15 than i would ever do. Because he is a good Pilot, even good or better pilots often do trash builds for fun and still will perform better than me. And thats shown in the stats.

So in conclusion the matchmaker is a Problem, it should be w/l based and nothing else, cause nothing displays more your teamplayskill than the w/l ratio.

[LordNothing]

well pgi botched the match maker by using irrelevant stats to gage skill and forcing everyone to progress even if they suck. then scoring puts players at cross purposes even within the same team.

early on i didnt care used my joystick and piloted bad builds and my stats show it. i wonder how may stat padders are on their second or third account.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 August 2019 - 05:24 AM.

[Helsbane]

If the tier system worked in any manner other than being an experience bar, I'd be mid to high end T3 at best, because that's what my actual performance says. Are there times when I get lucky and have a good game? Yes, but that doesn't mean I should advance to the top end of the scale by any means. But, all this talk of matchmakers and skill systems is all moot anyhow, because this game is already in hospice mode.

[Feral Clown]

GuardDogg, on 15 August 2019 - 11:30 PM, said:

MWO was losing players way before the announcement, and more after. Many factors are taking a role for MWO. The age of MWO, other game interests, Broken game, personal issues (moving, kids, other job, financial strain, computer specs, etc), stats is a factor, toxic environment in forums (think kids can play this game in this environment? Nope), and of course Russ's announcement. Maybe one reason why PGI maybe to shut off the servers to MWO, due to its toxic environment. What happens if a pilot was really good in his stats, then a personal issue arrived, then a month (or what ever) later the stats crumble? Then makes a topic in forum. Right away, boom stats, then saying "you suck!", and then the pilot is not able to perform like he or she used to. Stats are for re spawn fps games, like cod, strategy games, world of tanks, world of warships or stuff like that. Not MWO.

You're wrong.

MWO needs stats, it's part of the game.

You saying you have a problem with stats or that you find them toxic, doesn't mean everybody thinks that way. Bad month, day, amputation, whatever it is you think might be some sort of excuse is really irrelevant.

Stats crumble for many, many reasons and I have heard people with not so great stats that can still display knowledge of the game and come up with examples to back themselves up. Oh and I have tons of seasons with potato stats on my main but I still could see and agree with a great deal of what the comp players on the forums and when I played with them talked about. Funny enough when I finally actually listened to a couple seemingly minor things like adjusting my dpi to 800 from 1200 and got a proper mouse pad my playing and stats improved dramatically.

It's also not toxic to suggest to someone who is saying really dumb things or wanting to drop command and get everyone to do really dumb things and they have terrible stats to boot, that perhaps they could use some work or to listen more.