192 replies to this topic

[Eurystheus]

I have to admit that I'm not really all that much into the gaming culture, so this controversy took me by surprise. The people who are upset say they were promised a Steam key for MW5 and feel betrayed. Whereas I believe I was promised MW5. Don't really care how I get it. Steam key, Epic key, skeleton key, they are all the same to me. I'll only feel betrayed if they push the dates for the closed beta and general availability.

[Ravenlord]

Nesutizale, on 28 August 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

Should Epic be successfull It will also create another marketplace that brings in some competition to Steam. Also their methode of getting there is...well it could be better.

I don't see how Epics advent brings anything good for me as a customer. Not only is their launcher worse than Steam in literally every possible way, they don't even try to provide me with any kind of advantage, instead they want me to install another useless launcher so they can leech my data and literally try to blackmail me into coming to their platform if I want to play certain games.
If they had taken all that money they spent on making games exclusive to instead give me a better price than Steam while still giving the devs a better cut, now THAT would be something I could get behind.
But trying to blackmail me into using them? No thanks, that store can die in a server room fire for all I care.
If it comes to competition you have to look no further than GOG. That is the kind of competition I can appreciate. They may not be cheaper in most cases, but at least they try to provide me with other advantages, especially with GOG Galaxy 2.0 coming up and all the features it will have.

Nesutizale, on 28 August 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

Also do you think that A and B are the only reasons for companies like:
2K, Gearbox, Ubisoft, Deepsilver, 4A Games, Sony, Bluebyte and other big companies?
A is definitly not a problem for them and B might be true for some but be fank here, those points are just aimed at PGI. You just want to argue against PGI but miss that you also throw all the other companies into the same bucket.

Oh, I most definitely think B is especially true for big companies aiming mostly at a more casual playerbase, and looking at mobile games, micro transactions, etc it unfortunately holds true to a certain extent. Only lately the resistance against lootboxes and all that bs has become bigger after they pushed the boundaries of what they can do for years.
On a sidenote, does Sony have Epic exclusive titles? I wasn't aware of that.

Edited by Ravenlord, 28 August 2019 - 12:24 PM.

[Eurystheus]

Ravenlord, on 28 August 2019 - 12:18 PM, said:

Not only is their launcher worse than Steam in literally every possible way,

Will you explain that please? Currently I don't have any Epic games. The games I do have that are launched by Steam are MWO and Call of Duty MW3. I have an icon for each of them on my desktop. I double click the icon and Steam launches the game. How does it work with Epic? Is it a more complicated process to launch a game?

[Ravenlord]

Eurystheus, on 28 August 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

Will you explain that please? Currently I don't have any Epic games. The games I do have that are launched by Steam are MWO and Call of Duty MW3. I have an icon for each of them on my desktop. I double click the icon and Steam launches the game. How does it work with Epic? Is it a more complicated process to launch a game?

I'm thinking more quality of life functions, usability, extra features (and for me personally, also design). If you only ever start your games from the desktop it doesn't really matter, I guess.

Edited by Ravenlord, 28 August 2019 - 12:44 PM.

[Tesunie]

Eurystheus, on 28 August 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

Will you explain that please? Currently I don't have any Epic games. The games I do have that are launched by Steam are MWO and Call of Duty MW3. I have an icon for each of them on my desktop. I double click the icon and Steam launches the game. How does it work with Epic? Is it a more complicated process to launch a game?

I find Epic to be a little slower than Steam, but beyond that it's just another launcher app to me. As far as game launching, you can also get the games on your desktop via a shortcut (I have that for Subnautica) and it will open the game like Steam. The issue most people have with Epic is that its another program they have to sign up with and go through.

I've also heard a lot of accusations (with no posted proof to back up said claims yet on these forums to my knowledge) about Epic "being a spy program for China". Otherwise, Epic appears to be no different than Steam from my experience in the general sense, as in the fact that I can buy games from it, launch games from it, etc. It's also similar to the Blizzard launcher for their games...

If, and I mean IF, it is true that Epic is harvesting data and selling/giving it away, that could be a problem. Then again, baseless accusations with no posted proof I find meaningless on the subject, and seems like a scare people are trying to use to frighten people out of Epic. Much like many of the "scare tactics" people posted in the Transverse forums back in the day, many of which where out right lies in relation to Transverse or not even relevant to it.

[Nesutizale]

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If they had taken down the website for MW5, it probably would have caused a mixed reaction

Missed to mention that I was only talking about the steam key on the FAQ page not the entire MW5 page and subpages. I wasn't exact there.

Eurystheus, on 28 August 2019 - 11:37 AM, said:

... skeleton key,

A skeleton key now that would be epic. Sorry bad pun

Quote

I don't see how Epics advent brings anything good for me as a customer. Not only is their launcher worse than Steam in literally every possible way, they don't even try to provide me with any kind of advantage, instead they want me to install another useless launcher so they can leech my data and literally try to blackmail me into coming to their platform if I want to play certain games.
If they had taken all that money they spent on making games exclusive to instead give me a better price than Steam while still giving the devs a better cut, now THAT would be something I could get behind.
But trying to blackmail me into using them? No thanks, that store can die in a server room fire for all I care.
If it comes to competition you have to look no further than GOG. That is the kind of competition I can appreciate. They may not be cheaper in most cases, but at least they try to provide me with other advantages, especially with GOG Galaxy 2.0 coming up and all the features it will have.

More markets mean more competition in the long run. I agree that the exclusive deals isn't what I would prefere but then its not forever. Its a year of exclusivity. Its not like some console games that never leave their platform or where you have to wait 10 years to finaly get a conversion. A year is most likely not long enough to play through all the games that I still have in my steam list.

Also its not blackmailing. Nobody is forced to buy on Epic. You want it early, you know what you have to do. Its not an uncommon practice. Movies do/did it all the time, just at the larger scale of releasing later for an entire country and don't come with "Localisation" that is done long before. Its a marketing strategie, nothing more.

Leeching of data, what do you think steam does with your buying behavior, what and when you look into the shop. How do you think their "recommendation" algorithem works? Blind luck, guessing? No they are using your data, behavior and analytics as anyone else today. Have you even taken a closer look in the steam shop? They have a new AI supported learning system that they ask you to test to better sell you stuff. Yah steam is the saint of the industry....sure.

GOG is not quite the competition in the AAA market for now. I have high hopes that with GOG Galaxy 2.0 there will be some more movement into that direction. I realy like their DRM free idea and support for a lot of older games. I am shifting more and more over to GOG, when the prize is right.

You see that is where a trio of sellers will be good for consumers. Steam, GOG and Epic as the ones that you can choose in between. Currently you just have steam for AAA and GOG for smaller stuff, also they are getting more and more AAA titles.

As for the service of Epic, yes that is laughable. Seriously they have to put in quite some work to convince me to use it in that regard.

Quote

Oh, I most definitely think B is especially true for big companies aiming mostly at a more casual playerbase, and looking at mobile games, micro transactions, etc it unfortunately holds true to a certain extent. Only lately the resistance against lootboxes and all that bs has become bigger after they pushed the boundaries of what they can do for years.
On a sidenote, does Sony have Epic exclusive titles? I wasn't aware of that.

Yes B is certainly a big problem in todays economy of maximising profit and casual players have become the biggest, easiest to milk costumer group they have. There are even programs that analyse you and make a profile when and where you spend your money and make special priced just for you. -> https://vimeo.com/154271693

When looking at MWO, how far have they realy tried to milk people? New mechpacks? You don't need them to play, they are a nice extra that is also very well priced when you look at comparsion to, lets say World of Warships. Warhorns and other cosmetics? Yah nice, dosn't make me a better pilot. Premium time? Hell they had so many events where you could get MC and Premium that you hardly needed to buy it....except you want all colors and stuff. But then that is on you. PGI seriously had the least milking and addiction induceing system of all of them.

Sure they needed to make money and that is why there was at least a bit of trying to get you to spend money but it was realy very gental sucking...mhh yah

As for the question of Sony...I just scrooled through the market to see who is on the Epic store and Sony is there.

[Nesutizale]

Eurystheus, on 28 August 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

Will you explain that please? Currently I don't have any Epic games. The games I do have that are launched by Steam are MWO and Call of Duty MW3. I have an icon for each of them on my desktop. I double click the icon and Steam launches the game. How does it work with Epic? Is it a more complicated process to launch a game?

Epics store is missing some comfort functions as far as I can tell like a wishlist. Your steam friends not beeing on Epic, what a wonder
Else its like every other launcher. Download, install, start via launcher or let there be a desktop icon to launch from.

One positive thing I noticed, I got "Mutant year zero" as a gift from Epic and when I make a shortcut manualy from the folder on my drive I don't even need to start Epic. It runs completly without it. Can't say if that is also working for other games, just have that one.
If that is working for all games, that is even better then steam, cause I don't have to start steam in the background.

[Eurystheus]

Tesunie, on 28 August 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

I've also heard a lot of accusations (with no posted proof to back up said claims yet on these forums to my knowledge) about Epic "being a spy program for China". Otherwise, Epic appears to be no different than Steam from my experience in the general sense, as in the fact that I can buy games from it, launch games from it, etc. It's also similar to the Blizzard launcher for their games...

The Chinese spyware rumor comes from the fact that Tencent, a Chinese company, is a minority owner in Epic. Tencent does own WeChat, which is used heavily by the Chinese, and no doubt they follow their governments dictates regarding privacy. But Tencent also invested in Discord, and you don't see people here jumping up and down saying "Don't use Discord, it's Chinese spyware!" So I believe, as you do, that the accusations of Chinese spyware are just a scare tactic used by people who for one reason or other don't like Epic.

[Nesutizale]

Well in the past you asked the NSA if they could send you a copy of your hard drive. Now you ask China for a backup whats the big deal

That was sarcasm.

Idealy no one would spy on you. As for data collection, the question is what data and what they do with it.
I think it is acceptable when a company collects data on what you buy to what price. It helps a company to decide where to put their money for development and make other decissions that are importend for the company to survive.

Collecting data like credit card informations is quite a hot topic. Personaly I think you should never give that information to any company and any companie that wouldn't let me select another methode of payment won't get my money.
Still if people send them these data, you have to make very certain that its as hard as possible to get hacked...what you basicly can't so...no info from me.
Same goes for adresses and similar stuff. While you can't get around it, for example when they need to send you a package they need to know where to but I think it would be good if this data gets deleted when the package arrives.

Selling data. That is a no go. Every company should work to get their data for themself. Build up the trust of the costumer to tell them what they want to know. I know that data is sold today in masses and its hard to get around it but in an ideal world...yah I think there should be a competition to get the consumers trust not just buying it from other company.

[Eurystheus]

Nesutizale, on 28 August 2019 - 02:01 PM, said:

Collecting data like credit card informations is quite a hot topic. Personaly I think you should never give that information to any company and any companie that wouldn't let me select another methode of payment won't get my money.

Google shopsafe. Shopsafe is offered by Bank of America. It lets you generate a temporary credit card number. You specify the lifetime of the number and the amount of money that can be charged to it. I believe the minimum lifetime of the number is two months. If you set it for two months, once that time is up the card number is expired. If you load it with just enough money to complete your purchase, and the company you bought from gets hacked, the credit card number is useless because there is no money left on it.

[Horseman]

Tesunie, on 28 August 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

The issue most people have with Epic is that its another program they have to sign up with and go through.

False, as I've already explained the beef is with Epic being a sub-standard platform and the whole hostage preorder scenario. Some people are too passive to react to this, others don't take kindly to what they see as lies and attempts at emotional blackmail.

https://mwomercs.com...89#entry6283289

Eurystheus, on 28 August 2019 - 12:37 PM, said:

Will you explain that please? Currently I don't have any Epic games. The games I do have that are launched by Steam are MWO and Call of Duty MW3. I have an icon for each of them on my desktop. I double click the icon and Steam launches the game. How does it work with Epic? Is it a more complicated process to launch a game?

The lacking features do not have anything specific to just launching the game, but can make a major difference in useability of the platform.

The missing features include user reviews, review filtering, integrated forums, integrated guide hosting, integrating modding platform (which for an average user means no mods), wishlist (which on Steam can be used to see which of your wishlisted items are on sale, and you get notifications when that happens) and (still) shopping cart.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__6284754

Tesunie, on 28 August 2019 - 10:16 AM, said:

I've as of yet to see any proof of the 'fact' that the contract was signed during the Community Preorder period.

Russ' own admission not enough, I guess?

[Blackbird S2]

I have preordered standart pack of MW5 in the beginning of the year, but i don't have EGS account, do i need to create new Epic Games account or they already did it? Or they just send me a key i need to enter before downloading? How can i get MW5 now?

[Horseman]

Blackbird S2, on 28 August 2019 - 11:47 PM, said:

I have preordered standart pack of MW5 in the beginning of the year, but i don't have EGS account, do i need to create new Epic Games account or they already did it? Or they just send me a key i need to enter before downloading? How can i get MW5 now?

You need to create an Epic Games Store account and install their client. Then you need to enter your key into that client.

If that isn't satisfactory, you can request a refund - the deadline for that is September 1st 00:00 UTC

Edited by Horseman, 29 August 2019 - 12:44 AM.

[Dar1ng One]

Woah, some pure spite here. Good clean up jobs droicht, certainly keeping you busy.

Look, people lie.

Some people are bad at it, some are very good at it, some people don't mean too, but circumstances change where they have to do what's best for business.

The last one is what happened I believe. Also, how angry do you have to be to make 60 plus alt steam accounts to review bomb MWO into a negative score. Childish, petulant behavior. Have a hard look at yourself. Disgusting.

I am pleased that Epic's Front end has no review facility. That first point of perception should not be tarnished by some 50 year old dudes anger issues.

I guess it's, "cool", at the moment to hate on Epic because of Steam.

[Horseman]

Dar1ng One, on 29 August 2019 - 01:02 AM, said:

Also, how angry do you have to be to make 60 plus alt steam accounts to review bomb MWO into a negative score. Childish, petulant behavior. Have a hard look at yourself. Disgusting.

Perhaps think for a moment before making generalized accusations?
First, you can see the negative reviews for yourself - https://steamcommuni...1_5_100010_&p=1 - and most of those appear to come from legitimate accounts with hundreds of products tied to them.
Second... personally speaking, I haven't created any throwaway accounts to review bomb a game, I don't intend to change that now and I find your baseless accusation insulting in the extreme. If you knew my Steam ID you'd see that I haven't left any review of MWO whatsoever.

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I am pleased that Epic's Front end has no review facility.

I am not. Taken with a grain of salt, the reviews can identify possible issues with the product before you buy it - or they can identify reasons why you might enjoy the product that were not apparent from the developer's presentation in the store. Plenty of games are misrepresented in the official materials, and the reviews are your first stop to finding out what the facts are before you make the purchase.

Quote

That first point of perception should not be tarnished by some 50 year old dudes anger issues.

Steam has in fact employed a system that automatically detects and flags such reviews, filtering them out of the default display and scoring.

Quote

I guess it's, "cool", at the moment to hate on Epic because of Steam.

No, it's always cool to hate on substandard service and attempts to manipulate customers..

Edited by Horseman, 29 August 2019 - 02:00 PM.

[Nesutizale]

Eurystheus, on 28 August 2019 - 03:25 PM, said:

Google shopsafe. Shopsafe is offered by Bank of America. It lets you generate a temporary credit card number. You specify the lifetime of the number and the amount of money that can be charged to it. I believe the minimum lifetime of the number is two months. If you set it for two months, once that time is up the card number is expired. If you load it with just enough money to complete your purchase, and the company you bought from gets hacked, the credit card number is useless because there is no money left on it.

Interesting. I don't have a credit card so I don't know about such things but good to know if I should ever need a number.


About Epics service. Well you can be devided on that point. I think it depends mostly on what you use. To me all I miss so far from Epic is a wishlist because I changed my buying habbits from "I buy everthing that has 75% discount to "I buy a new game when there is nothing else I can play" and a wishlist helps keeping track of stuff.

Modding support....well I used it one time in a decade? That dosn't mean that I don't mod my games but I usualy use other methodes then steam/launcher.

Reviews....I prefere people who are professional reviewers where I know they have a similar opinion to mine so I can be pretty sure that when they like it, I like it. I look at steam reviews very, very carefully if at all. Most of the stuff there is either ranting or fanboys. Not quite objective.

Friendslist...if I only had any
Well that is one point where there is clearly a problem. When you have friends on one system and the others on another then you run into problems.
On the other hand there is still Teamspeak or Discord so mostly it isn't a real problem.

[hazeman]

Man you guys are even lucky some dev (read PGI) are trying to bring in a battle tech SINGLE PLAYER franchise in this age where MOBA and online/DLC only content rule?

Do you guys even realize how niche a big stompy mehca SINGLE PLAYER game is?

I do believe that most battletech fans are now in their 30s-40s. how many big name SINGLE PLAYER mecha game have you seen in the past 15 years? For us to be having a MW5 in 2019/20 is something of a miracle methinks.

I think paying for 50Usd or 29Usd or whatever amount of preorder money is good value vs the time spent you are gonna get having fun PILOTING BIG STOMPY LASER SHOOTING MECHS.

I backed MWO way back in 2012 at 50Usd, and behold 8 years later im still having fun with pew pew-ing big mechs. 50Usd well spent i think.

Heck i even backed Battletech in kickstarter for 50Usd too, and when they released it for 40Usd on steam i sort of expected it. At least i know that money i spent helped the devs in realizing my need for some stompy mech action. Same case here.

[Venturestein]

Darthducker, on 25 August 2019 - 02:22 AM, said:

How about giving us that Steam version you promised us? No?

So disappointed. At least Metro Exodus honored pre-orders. despite the same scummy behaviour.

Why all this loyalty to steam. it is a **** platform that is only around because they have been the only gamein town for indie devs in front of more people for years. Devs moving away from STEAM is agood thing guys. Quit with all the salt and entitlement. Just like Netflix Steam is going the way of the dinosaur. Their disregard for Devs and the customer is coming backto bite them in the ***. I say good for PGI.

[Horseman]

Venturestein, on 29 August 2019 - 04:21 AM, said:

Devs moving away from STEAM is agood thing guys.

Devs first taking preorders for STEAM and then switching platforms is not a good thing.

[Max Immelmann]

any one believing this lie? how many time does some one have to lie to you until you finally say, "enough is enough."

EGS is in bed with chinese criminals. russ has decided that he would like a place in that bed. if you pay for this, you are SUPPORTING criminals!

not going to bother posting all the proof, as it has been done MANY TIMES in many different threads, here, on reddits, on other websites.

it may have looked good on paper, as a business decision, but as is par for russ, he failed to take into account the LOYAL base players.

i have already received my refund, and i will NEVER spend another penny on ANY THING russ bullucks is involved in.

as far as i am concerned, he too is a criminal. not only because he is bed with chinese criminals, but he has demonstrated that he too is a criminal by literally lying and trying to steal our money.

do NOT buy in to his lies and deceit.