192 replies to this topic

[Nesutizale]

If you fear chinese companies so much you better crawl under a rock because Tencent also owns sizable chunks of other game companies including Ubisoft, Activision-Blizzard, Riot Games and Paradox for example and services like Discord.
They are also in the Music industrie and Movies and...basicly everything.

Also most likely your hardware you use was made in china or by companies owned by chinese. Most of the components in your handheld are made by chinese companies...hell even your car has most likely some chinese componets in them.

Today nearly everything we have is in some way connected to china because worldwide companies moved to china for productions because cheap slave...mean labor is what they wanted and now china has the knowhow and money to beat most of the western companies because they gave it to them. There was so little in espionage necessary. Companies only saw the big $$ signs and didn't read that china dosn't has copy protection laws towards outsiders so western companies presented china all they have on a silver tablet because of money.

[Tesunie]

Horseman, on 28 August 2019 - 10:41 PM, said:

False, as I've already explained the beef is with Epic being a sub-standard platform and the whole hostage preorder scenario. Some people are too passive to react to this, others don't take kindly to what they see as lies and attempts at emotional blackmail.

I've used Epic a little and I've not experienced much in the way of problems. I tend not to use Wishlists all that often, so I didn't notice it was missing (yet) from Epic. I do know the mod community doesn't have any extensions on Epic, which is sad, but Epic is apparently "adding that in soon".

As for being a hostage in the preorder, PGI I feel has been more than generous with their refunds of the preorders for people who do not like the move to Epic or not wish to use Epic. Sure, it sucks to not get to play a game you might have been excited about till at least a year after it's official release... but PGI is basically giving stuff away to anyone who did get the refund.

I also don't consider something a "lie" unless it was an intentional false statement. Getting something wrong or changing your mind doesn't make what was previously stated a lie.
"I have a Geo Metro." "Actually it's a Chevy Metro. Oops."
"I'm going to repaint my house blue." "Well, there was a sale on barn red paint, so I changed my mind."
Neither of those original statements would be "lies". I believe that is more or less what happened here.

Horseman, on 28 August 2019 - 10:41 PM, said:

Russ' own admission not enough, I guess?

As I said in the post, I've as of yet seen anyone post anything here about it, just "baseless claims" as far as I can tell. When asked for links, I've gotten nothing in return so far. Be it when the negotiations where happening, the "spying and selling of data" that Epic is "guilty" of, etc. This stuff isn't just "common knowledge" and a little proof goes a long way.

The dates may have been said on Twister/Redit/etc by Russ, but I don't have accounts there and don't follow those. So, I think it would be nice if someone posted links when making such accusations of "they lied to us". I also, even if it was being signed towards the tail end of the Community Preorder period, believe that PGI still wasn't "lying" per say, as with a preorder things are subject to change. Then we have the refund option... Could they have been faster/more efficient about telling preorder holders about this change? Yeah, I'll give people on that. But was PGI intentionally being misleading? I don't exactly believe they where. They probably did believe they where going to be releasing it on Steam when the Preorder originally was advertised and set up. Epic just offered a better deal at a later time.

I do ask, if you have a link to your information, can you share? No one else has yet...

[Eurystheus]

Horseman, on 28 August 2019 - 10:41 PM, said:

The lacking features do not have anything specific to just launching the game, but can make a major difference in useability of the platform.

The missing features include user reviews, review filtering, integrated forums, integrated guide hosting, integrating modding platform (which for an average user means no mods), wishlist (which on Steam can be used to see which of your wishlisted items are on sale, and you get notifications when that happens) and (still) shopping cart.

If it wasn't for this controversy, I never would have known those features exist. The only thing I ever use it for is launching games. A teenager walked me through installing MW5. I don't exactly remember, but I suppose we may have done that from Steam. Otherwise it looks like it is loaded with great features that I will never use. So the move to Epic doesn't affect me.

[Eurystheus]

Who sets the game price? The developer (PGI) or the distributor (Steam or Epic)?

[Nesutizale]

All of them and the market.

[Horseman]

Tesunie, on 29 August 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

The dates may have been said on Twister/Redit/etc by Russ, but I don't have accounts there and don't follow those. So, I think it would be nice if someone posted links when making such accusations of "they lied to us". I also, even if it was being signed towards the tail end of the Community Preorder period, believe that PGI still wasn't "lying" per say, as with a preorder things are subject to change. Then we have the refund option... Could they have been faster/more efficient about telling preorder holders about this change? Yeah, I'll give people on that. But was PGI intentionally being misleading? I don't exactly believe they where. They probably did believe they where going to be releasing it on Steam when the Preorder originally was advertised and set up. Epic just offered a better deal at a later time.

I do ask, if you have a link to your information, can you share? No one else has yet...

You can find the relevant fragment of the AMA in this video, at 4:15 :


And likewise Russ himself regarding the FAQ changes https://twitter.com/...180563895615488

nuttyrat said:

Hey @russ_bullock. A lot of folks are concerned about changes to the MW5 FAQ, specifically removing mentions of the Exclusive Beta and being released on Steam. Can you provide some insight into what is going on? #MW5Mercs #mechwarrior #Preorder

Russ Bullock said:

Didn’t they just take down the FAQ along with the preorder page

Russ Bullock said:

It’s just the FAQ for the new updated MW5 site we’re going to launch soon — makes no sense to have community preorder bits on it. Didn’t necessarily want to let on about the site update yet but since people be all worried

Russ Bullock said:

Well now you can let them know it’s just the site update incoming - no need to have preorder bits in the FAQ

"Just the site update", right?

Edited by Horseman, 31 August 2019 - 11:15 AM.

[Tesunie]

Horseman, on 31 August 2019 - 11:13 AM, said:

You can find the relevant fragment of the AMA in this video, at 4:15 :


And likewise Russ himself regarding the FAQ changes https://twitter.com/...180563895615488


"Just the site update", right?

Thank you for the links. Only person so far to provide any.

Looking at the twitter dates and discussion, it would appear to me that they may have been in the discussion stage with Epic, but probably didn't have anything "solid" I think at that time. (It is a possibility of course.)

Now looking at the AMA, they probably should have announced it sooner than they did, as they apparently did have it confirmed and settled "during the last days of the Community Preorder". I will mention, last days of that preorder meant it was too late to update that. Though, I do think they should have probably mentioned the Epic deal as soon as the preorder was done so people could decide then what to do.

Q: When did the Community Preorder end? That AMA was set for July 26th on Youtube. I don't think I have enough of the timeline of events to really see the whole picture...


PGI has these forums... I don't see why they go to other sites to make announcements and such... Makes it very hard to follow what's going on and when it's happening...

Right now I have:
- Epic Deal possibly confirmed around here, a few days before the preorder ended.
- Community Preorder ended. Date?
- Twitter responses July 16th.
- Epic exclusive release announced July 25th.
- Full refunds of preorder announced July 25th as well. Have until Sept 1st to decide. Refund was full, and you retained all MW:O bonus content for "free".
- AMA posted Youtube video on July 26th. (Probably broadcasted sooner. What # AMA was it?)
- Announcement on Epic Preorder August 19th.

So far, if the preorder ended on the 16th and the Epic deal was finalized on, say, the 12th, and the "refund" official announcement being on the 25th... That really isn't that large of a gap. I wont disagree that it should have been a faster announcement with Epic's exclusivity, but that still isn't "unreasonable" in my opinion. Especially when considering the rather generous refund they provided for anyone who desired it.

For the record, I'm not saying people don't have a right to be angry, but I've been seeing a lot of stuff just flying around these forums, most are unsupported, such as Epic being a Spyware program for China, if this is supported than evidence should be able to be linked when asked.

PS: Sorry for the delayed response. Busy last few days... Thanks for the links as well. Helps me understand the timeline so far.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Community pre-order expired 30.April, if I'm not mistaken.

[Tesunie]

Aidan Crenshaw, on 04 September 2019 - 12:13 PM, said:

Community pre-order expired 30.April, if I'm not mistaken.

Then that changes the timeline a little:
- Epic Deal possibly confirmed around April 26th, a few days before the preorder ended.
- Community Preorder ended on April 30th.
- Twitter responses July 16th.
- Epic exclusive release announced July 25th.
- Full refunds of preorder announced July 25th as well. Have until Sept 1st to decide. Refund was full, and you retained all MW:O bonus content for "free".
- AMA posted Youtube video on July 26th. (Probably broadcasted sooner. What # AMA was it?)
- Announcement on Epic Preorder August 19th


Being a business, and considering red tape and all... I don't think their announcement was "unreasonably" long in coming. About a month after the deal was "officially" signed. Could it have been shorter? Absolutely. Ideally, we'd have been getting the exclusivity announcement around April 26th. However, I do think it was wise to let that preorder end first, so as not to have conflicting messages of people purchasing and then asking for refunds. I might also mention, it might have taken a while to decide what to do about the refund, and how much would be refunded and what they would be removing from the preorders.

As I mentioned before, I don't think it is fair to call PGI "liars" because of this. Maybe "slower to deliver news", and the "promise" of a Steam key may have been preemptively made. Most preorders typically are "terms are subject to change", such as how and when it is intended to be released. I also wont fault people for being upset with this change from supposed Steam release keys to Epic exclusive. However, those that are upset, there was a rather generous refund option they could take. People had just over a month to decide and submit a request for the refund, which was only a month after the preorder had ended.

If PGI got as much money as has been rumored, I'd also like to mention that PGI did the wiser choice as a business. Businesses are typically out to make money. A business that doesn't make money to at least break even doesn't stay in business. We may not like it, but that's what most likely happened.

Edited by Tesunie, 04 September 2019 - 12:27 PM.

[GaelicWolf]

Epic ABANDONS Store Plans...

Time stamp 0:00 through 3:30



Things that make you say hmmmmmm.

[Y E O N N E]

[Dar1ng One]

The new list view on epic gives a nice overview.

I'm sure that date is just a placeholder....(I hope)



mmmmmmmmmmmmm yes

Date-cellent!