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Ppc Clan Vs Is


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#21 Khobai

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 12:28 PM

I do think that the ISERPPC is superior to the CERPPC.

however CDHS are superior to ISDHS. If clans had to use ISDHS instead of CDHS it would be immediately apparent that the CERPPC is inferior to the ISERPPC.


ISERPPC = prolific number of IS PPC quirks and way stronger quirks than clans get, less heat for same PPFLD, way better velocity, better rate of fire, considerably better crit health. IS also has better weapon synergies because it has PPFLD autocannons like the AC5 that it can combine with ISERPPCs.

CERPPC = very few CERPPC quirks and weaker quirks, more heat for same PPFLD, splash damage is overrated because half the time it disappears and much of the time it doesnt even make a difference anyway, CERPPC also has way worse velocity and actually ends up weighing more and taking up more crit slots than the ISERPPC if you have to add a targeting computer to give it the same velocity as the ISERPPC. Weapon synergy is also virtually non-existent since clans can no longer combine their only other PPFLD with their PPCs.


Literally the only thing that makes CERPPCs tenable compared to ISERPPCs is the unbalanced state of CDHS compared to ISDHS. The weapon crutches on having access to way better heatsinks but without that would unable to stand on its own two legs. PGI really needs to balance CDHS much better and then they need to rebalance all the weapons accordingly.

Edited by Khobai, 26 August 2019 - 12:50 PM.


#22 Alienized

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 01:26 PM

judging a weapon system by the quirks it sometimes has doesnt make sense when comparing.

#23 Feral Clown

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 03:11 PM

View PostKhobai, on 26 August 2019 - 12:28 PM, said:

I do think that the ISERPPC is superior to the CERPPC.

however CDHS are superior to ISDHS. If clans had to use ISDHS instead of CDHS it would be immediately apparent that the CERPPC is inferior to the ISERPPC.


ISERPPC = prolific number of IS PPC quirks and way stronger quirks than clans get, less heat for same PPFLD, way better velocity, better rate of fire, considerably better crit health. IS also has better weapon synergies because it has PPFLD autocannons like the AC5 that it can combine with ISERPPCs.

CERPPC = very few CERPPC quirks and weaker quirks, more heat for same PPFLD, splash damage is overrated because half the time it disappears and much of the time it doesnt even make a difference anyway, CERPPC also has way worse velocity and actually ends up weighing more and taking up more crit slots than the ISERPPC if you have to add a targeting computer to give it the same velocity as the ISERPPC. Weapon synergy is also virtually non-existent since clans can no longer combine their only other PPFLD with their PPCs.


Literally the only thing that makes CERPPCs tenable compared to ISERPPCs is the unbalanced state of CDHS compared to ISDHS. The weapon crutches on having access to way better heatsinks but without that would unable to stand on its own two legs. PGI really needs to balance CDHS much better and then they need to rebalance all the weapons accordingly.


Clearly an evaluation from someone who doesn't play or know the game very well.

#24 Khobai

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 03:54 PM

View PostFeral Clown, on 26 August 2019 - 03:11 PM, said:


Clearly an evaluation from someone who doesn't play or know the game very well.


Prove me wrong then. I presented all the reasons why I think the ISERPPC is better than the CERPPC.

Most of the reasons I gave are actually indisputable. Like the ISERPPC having more quirks and better quirks, better heat efficiency for the damage that matters, better velocity, better crit health, better weapon synergy because IS has other PPFLD weapons besides gauss, etc. Those are indisputable facts.

In fact, there is only ONE disputable point in my entire argument and that is the valuation of splash damage. I dont think splash damage on the CERPPC is all that great because: 1) its inconsistent and half the time you dont even get the full splash damage amount, 2) splash damage is rarely lethal and infrequently kills mechs directly. Splash damage in my opinion is completely overrated.

As far as im concerned theres only three reasons why the CERPPC performs better than the ISERPPC. And none of them have anything to do with the CERPPC itself. The first is because CDHS are WAY better: 2 critslots vs 3 critslots makes a huge difference in how many DHS a mech can fit. The second is because CFF/CES are also WAY better which allows clans to mount even more CDHS. The third is because CXL is WAY better which again allows clans to mount more DHS inside their higher rated engines. When a clan mech can have 25%-30% more DHS than an IS mech of course its energy weapons are going to perform noticeably better. If you took those extra DHS away from clans the CERPPC would be at best equal if not worse than the ISERPPC.

But again you have failed to provide any tangible counter argument whatsoever.

Prove to me why splash damage is better than I think it is. Prove to me why CDHS arnt the real reason why CERPPC are better than ISERPPC.

Then we can have a real discussion. Instead of you making insubstantial childish remarks.

Edited by Khobai, 26 August 2019 - 04:33 PM.


#25 Feral Clown

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 04:00 PM

View PostKhobai, on 26 August 2019 - 03:54 PM, said:


Prove me wrong then.

I presented all the reasons why I think the ISERPPC is better than the CERPPC.

You have failed to provide any tangible counter argument whatsoever.


No one needs a tangible counter argument against dinosaur man.

IS erppc's are garbage, no splash and not enough of a heat redux to make a tangible difference.

#26 Y E O N N E

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 04:41 PM

View PostGilgamecc, on 26 August 2019 - 09:04 AM, said:




The trick is to not get fancy and just use a brace of standard small lasers for your point defense array. HPPC are great on specialized platforms.


https://pbs.twimg.co...=jpg&name=large


I know how to build a a 'Mech with PPCs that is passable, that's not my point. My point is that, if you could run JUST the HPPC without fear of being underrun and place all of that tonnage spent on point defense weapons instead on DHS or a better engine, you would finally have a specialist 'Mech worth considering instead of an also-ran to laser vomit.

#27 Gilgamecc

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 05:31 PM

it's three tons for six smalls, which is a close-in AC20 of laser damage for little heat.

And you need the arm lasers to put the PPC in the right mountsPosted Image

#28 Y E O N N E

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 05:36 PM

View PostGilgamecc, on 26 August 2019 - 05:31 PM, said:

it's three tons for six smalls, which is a close-in AC20 of laser damage for little heat.

And you need the arm lasers to put the PPC in the right mountsPosted Image


You'll get better mileage on that 'Mech running two standard PPCs and six Medium Lasers.

There is no advantage to putting the PPCs at that height, either, since your cockpit is lower. The center mounts are fine.

At any rate, if the RFL-8D could actually run just the two HPPCs and nothing but a whole bunch of DHS and some JJs, it would be the better HPPC 'Mech. But it can't, because it would be fish food under 90 meters for any competent Light pilot.

#29 justcallme A S H

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 06:22 PM

View PostKhobai, on 26 August 2019 - 03:54 PM, said:

I presented all the reasons


Yeah like...

View PostKhobai, on 26 August 2019 - 12:28 PM, said:

CERPPC = half the time it disappears and much of the time it doesnt even make a difference anyway


"disappears", really? That's part of the basis for a point, something you've literally made up.

That's actually a theme you roll with. You make things up pretty much, all the time - Example 1 / Example 2 / Example 3 / Example 4


The whole "prove me wrong"? You are wrong. There is no need to prove you are wrong, although here we go once again (Example 5 incoming). Your ENTIRE argument is based on this statement:

"If clans had to use ISDHS instead of CDHS it would be immediately apparent that the CERPPC is inferior to the ISERPPC."

A statement that literally does not exist and furthermore will never happen.

Therefore. You = Wrong.

cERPPC don't use IS DHS because they are different techs and different weapons. That is the ENTIRE point of MWO and thus balance/variation of weapon systems et al.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 26 August 2019 - 06:25 PM.


#30 Khobai

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 08:19 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 26 August 2019 - 06:22 PM, said:


"disappears", really? That's part of the basis for a point, something you've literally made up.


I didnt make it up at all.

When a CERPPC hits half of a mechs locations, specifically the arms/legs (and also the head) it only does 10 damage to the arm/leg and 2.5 splash damage to the corresponding side torso. The other 2.5 splash damage effectively disappears. So yes splash damage is inconsistent in that regard. CERPPCs do not always do 10+5 damage.

Please learn how CERPPC splash damage works before you talk. Or just dont talk at all. Thats fine too.

I AM RIGHT. YOU ARE WRONG.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 26 August 2019 - 06:22 PM, said:

Your ENTIRE argument is based on this statement:

"If clans had to use ISDHS instead of CDHS it would be immediately apparent that the CERPPC is inferior to the ISERPPC."


So you're agreeing with me?

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 26 August 2019 - 06:22 PM, said:

cERPPC don't use IS DHS because they are different techs and different weapons. That is the ENTIRE point of MWO and thus balance/variation of weapon systems et al.


Paraphrasing what I said and repeating it back to me doesnt make me wrong and make you right. It only validates the things Ive already said.

You are literally agreeing with me that CDHS are better than ISDHS and CERPPCs are only better because CDHS are better. Which is the entire point I already made: That the only reason the CERPPC is tenable is because of CDHS being so much better than ISDHS. Without CDHS the CERPPC would not be nearly as good compared to the ISERPPC, and quite possibly even worse.

Also the fact that clans get way better DHS, way better ES/FF, and way better XL engines remains one of the biggest imbalances in the game to this day. Its the main reason IS vs Clan has never been sufficiently balanced. That is not asymmetrical balance its just imbalance.

This is like arguing with a child.

Edited by Khobai, 26 August 2019 - 08:59 PM.


#31 justcallme A S H

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 08:28 PM

Me, learn how in game mechanics work? Lol...

I'm not the one making up a totally impossible scenario and then using that as the basis of a "prove me wrong". To engage in a "prove me wrong" means you'd actually have some standpoint. You don't. You can't ever have a standpoint in a made-up scenario that have exactly 0 chance of ever occurring.

And then you claim half the time it disappears. You cannot prove that 50% claim whatsoever so it's just another one to put down in your made up book of "facts".


#32 Khobai

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 08:51 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 26 August 2019 - 08:28 PM, said:

And then you claim half the time it disappears. You cannot prove that 50% claim whatsoever so it's just another one to put down in your made up book of "facts".


Again please learn how CERPPC splash damage works before you talk.
Your ignorance on this subject matter is clearly apparent.

#33 FupDup

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 08:52 PM

This thread is going places.

Posted Image

#34 Feral Clown

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 09:08 PM

View PostKhobai, on 26 August 2019 - 08:51 PM, said:


Again please learn how CERPPC splash damage works before you talk.
Your ignorance on this subject matter is clearly apparent.


LOL.

Yes if you hit an arm you lose 2.5. Not really an issue for my buddy Ash though as he doesn't miss half the time as you clearly do.

So for people that can aim (ie not you) that extra five damage piles up.

Also your point is pointless. Clan heatsinks are what they are and that goes for IS as well. That's not going to change, so all things taken into account, how the game is right now and not what you 'think' it should be, IS ERPPC's are garbo.

So as usual you are wrong, as you are repeatedly and continually for years upon years now.

Take care dinoboy.

#35 justcallme A S H

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 09:22 PM

View PostKhobai, on 26 August 2019 - 08:51 PM, said:


Again please learn how CERPPC splash damage works before you talk.
Your ignorance on this subject matter is clearly apparent.


I am well aware how it works and I don't miss. So there is no losing damage "50%" of the time as you claimed. A claim that you cannot prove or substantiate with any evidence.

As we are now onto deflection post #2 (because the truth/fact police are here) - can we get back to addressing the actual issue here?

The issue being: Your entire argument is founded upon a situation that will never materialise in this game.

You're once again intentionally trying to justify a false claim now you've been caught up by more educated players. Players that actually play the game mind you. It's funny that any time you try and talk numbers or facts you're either flat out wrong nor make up some scenario that just doesn't exist to justify yourself.

It's like arguing with a flat earther. Doesn't matter what evidence you have, to them, the earth is still flat.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 26 August 2019 - 09:30 PM.


#36 Khobai

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 09:43 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 26 August 2019 - 09:22 PM, said:

I am well aware how it works and I don't miss.


1) I find it exceedingly hard to believe that younever hit arms and legs. if the game is really that easy for you maybe you need to find a bigger challenge?

2) not everybody is you. some people do hit arms and legs. your inability to see things from other peoples perspectives is one of your biggest problems.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 26 August 2019 - 09:22 PM, said:

I am well aware how it works and I don't miss. So there is no losing damage "50%" of the time as you claimed. A claim that you cannot prove or substantiate with any evidence.


I dont need to "prove" it because its a well documented property of splash damage.

When you hit half the locations on a mech, specifically arms and legs (and heads), half the splash damage disappears. You only do 2.5 splash damage instead of the 5 splash damage you do if you hit a torso section.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 26 August 2019 - 09:22 PM, said:

It's like arguing with a flat earther. Doesn't matter what evidence you have, to them, the earth is still flat.


But in this case the earth is flat because im right. Half your splash damage does disappear when you hit half the locations on a mech (specifically arms and legs). You only get full splash damage if you hit a torso section.

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 26 August 2019 - 09:22 PM, said:

The issue being: Your entire argument is founded upon a situation that will never materialise in this game.


Correct. Because this game will never be balanced.

The purpose of my argument was to espouse upon the fact that CDHS are NOT balanced (CES/CFF and CXL are also not balanced). And that as a result, weapon balance in this game is precarious at best. Because if CDHS are significantly better than ISDHS it means clan weapons need to be worse than IS weapons in order to be balanced, which is usually not the case, hence why the game isnt balanced.

Edited by Khobai, 26 August 2019 - 10:02 PM.


#37 justcallme A S H

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 11:18 PM

View PostKhobai, on 26 August 2019 - 09:43 PM, said:

I dont need to "prove" it because its a well documented property of splash damage.


You said - HALF. That is 50%.

So you absolutely do need to prove that 50% of shots from players do not get splash applied to the shot.

You made the claim and just like every other time you've done it, you cannot substantiate it.

Many people are eagerly awaiting the proof to your claim. I suspect like all the other times, we will be forever left waiting.

View PostKhobai, on 26 August 2019 - 09:43 PM, said:

The purpose of my argument was to espouse upon the fact that CDHS are NOT balanced (CES/CFF and CXL are also not balanced). And that as a result, weapon balance in this game is precarious at best. Because if CDHS are significantly better than ISDHS it means clan weapons need to be worse than IS weapons in order to be balanced, which is usually not the case, hence why the game isnt balanced.


There is no purpose to your argument because it is based upon an eventuality that won't occur.

It would be like me saying that IS UAC10s with cDHS and cXL would be great. I mean - they would be. The reality? That is never going to happen as it would be unbalanced.

The weapon balance right now is back to where it was circa 2016 just before the KDK3 came out. It's not perfect but it's not abysmal like it was from KDK3 '16 until start of 2019. I don't expect you to know this because you don't play the game.

Truly I don't even know why you're even trying to suggest you understand balance.

You don't even know how ERLs work or that Linebackers are 65T. Better yet you can't even get your mind around the fact that players can pull a WLR of 3.0 in SoloQ... And this is just the tip of the iceberg for just how amazingly wrong you are constantly and continue to spread misinformation on the forums on a regular basis.

#38 Eon Graywolf

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Posted 28 August 2019 - 07:20 AM

View PostBombast, on 25 August 2019 - 12:35 PM, said:


Maybe your pilot skill has nothing to do with winning matches.

Only what you do in a match (quickplay) matters towards pilot skill only in 1vs1 would winning a match matter but it should not.
I have done very badly in quickplay yet team won so my pilot skill increased and have gotten 2 solo kills and 2 assists yet my pilot kill went down or remained the same.....sad as it pushes winning at all costs ( I hope you know what i mean about that)
suddenly we see ac 2 firing faster then uac 2s & not overheating or jamming faster and other things like shooting an enemy mech and no damage like their damage bubble is gone from head, right torso, right arm or alpha striking a light mech in the ct rear and only stripping out its armor and not touching internal structure. we could say this is due to poor ping but other times this does not happen instead you do the damage yet still have the same ping rate. So you can say piloting skill is all about winning yet its what you do in the match...nothing more or less.

#39 Eon Graywolf

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Posted 28 August 2019 - 07:34 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 25 August 2019 - 09:42 PM, said:

See's some wild statement about weapon balance.

Checks Jarls list


Yep... Expert in our midst.




Pilot skill has everything to do with winning a match.

It's a joke if you think it doesn't.


In 1 vs 1 but not in quickplay, your just one person not all 12 on either side....what you do in the match matters not its outcome.

#40 Eon Graywolf

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Posted 28 August 2019 - 07:40 AM

View PostAidan Crenshaw, on 26 August 2019 - 06:33 AM, said:

classic troll bait. OP drops nonsensical sentence, and is never to be seen again.

LOL





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