59 replies to this topic

[RickySpanish]

Shadowhawk is the better 'Mech for QP, it has jets and can peak nicely. XL is a problem but everyone who knows what they are doing will just leg a Bushwacker instead of contending with its torso hitboxes. As for Grimmechs, they also list (or at one point listed) the Gauss/XL Warhammer as a high tier QP 'Mech. So, yeah. Not always on the mark.

[Verilligo]

RickySpanish, on 28 August 2019 - 07:51 AM, said:

Shadowhawk is the better 'Mech for QP, it has jets and can peak nicely. XL is a problem but everyone who knows what they are doing will just leg a Bushwacker instead of contending with its torso hitboxes. As for Grimmechs, they also list (or at one point listed) the Gauss/XL Warhammer as a high tier QP 'Mech. So, yeah. Not always on the mark.

The Gauss/XL Warhammer is a high tier QP mech. Just because you can't use it doesn't mean it isn't incredibly effective. And I say that as someone that can't use it. Similarly, the Bushwacker is excellent at peeking and rolls damage better than the SHawk. That's not to say the SHawk isn't effective, just that it's the inferior choice for THAT particular setup. And even if it's the inferior choice, one might be more practiced with the SHawk, meaning you might return better results purely because of more familiarity. You have to play the two mechs differently, after all.

[Kubernetes]

To my thinking, the Bushie is objectively better than the Shadowhawk, but it's not so much better that its superiority outweighs other considerations like personal preference. A mech may be better objectively, but pilots care about subjectivity too (because I'm the one who has to pilot my mechs, not some hypothetical average pilot).

[Feral Clown]

lobsterhierarchy, on 28 August 2019 - 07:47 AM, said:

Feral - while I can respect your jarls list score (though it looks like an alt you play with, and capitalized on the atm eagle spam at the time based on your weight class breakdown), does 1v1’ing actually accomplish anything? Solaris 1v1 builds =/= FP or QP mechs.

I’ll come to bat for the shadowhawk with the high tight mounts for hill humping, but I know people do naturally better in the bushie.

LOL WUT?

https://imgur.com/a/lhpcJEv

I am using a Veagle 1 with triple ERPPC's. On this account I don't have a VGL 3, and on the quick play account that I do, I played 54 games to level it, do an event where ATM 12's were required, and then I stopped playing it because I find it to be absolute cancer.

[Feral Clown]

Kubernetes, on 28 August 2019 - 11:03 AM, said:

To my thinking, the Bushie is objectively better than the Shadowhawk, but it's not so much better that its superiority outweighs other considerations like personal preference. A mech may be better objectively, but pilots care about subjectivity too (because I'm the one who has to pilot my mechs, not some hypothetical average pilot).

I can respect your preference and appreciate you could probably make a lot of things work that I couldn't.

However you are even saying it's objectively better, and hypothetically what would you recommend a tater or new player go with? Betting it's the Bushie. That said, JJ's are something not too many people have brought up which is a huge plus on mechs in my opinion.

[Feral Clown]

RickySpanish, on 28 August 2019 - 07:51 AM, said:

Shadowhawk is the better 'Mech for QP, it has jets and can peak nicely. XL is a problem but everyone who knows what they are doing will just leg a Bushwacker instead of contending with its torso hitboxes. As for Grimmechs, they also list (or at one point listed) the Gauss/XL Warhammer as a high tier QP 'Mech. So, yeah. Not always on the mark.

That is because a lfe Whammy is inferior. You might prefer it over the proper build, but it doesn't make it better. Of coarse there are always changes and preferences that experienced and knowledgeable players will tweak with mechs on Grimmechs but its point is to showcase common builds run by the better players in the game.

[Kubernetes]

The noob should take the Bushie because its advantages are passive, whereas the Shadowhawk requires work to make it shine. The Bushie has better geometry and defensive quirks, but the Shadowhawk can position way better and it can soak damage by feathering JJs when getting hit.

The JJs really do it for me because they open up a whole different world of gameplay. A map like Canyon is totally different for JJ mechs vs groundbounders. Defensively, I'll take JJs over structure quirks because as far as I'm concerned, mobility is also survivability.

(One of my favorite rides as of late is the RFL 8D - - a Rifleman poptarting AC10s is fun af)

Feral Clown, on 28 August 2019 - 01:49 PM, said:

That is because a lfe Whammy is inferior.

Why is that? (I've never run an LFE version of that build)

Edited by Kubernetes, 28 August 2019 - 01:56 PM.

[Feral Clown]

Kubernetes, on 28 August 2019 - 01:54 PM, said:

The noob should take the Bushie because its advantages are passive, whereas the Shadowhawk requires work to make it shine. The Bushie has better geometry and defensive quirks, but the Shadowhawk can position way better and it can soak damage by feathering JJs when getting hit.

The JJs really do it for me because they open up a whole different world of gameplay. A map like Canyon is totally different for JJ mechs vs groundbounders. Defensively, I'll take JJs over structure quirks because as far as I'm concerned, mobility is also survivability.

(One of my favorite rides as of late is the RFL 8D - - a Rifleman poptarting AC10s is fun af)




Why is that? (I've never run an LFE version of that build)

Too much sacrifices. Either speed or ammo.

*skipped the other stuff cause I agree. jj's on mechs are huge for me or if I can't have them I want speed (Flea can masc it's way up on canyon where others need jj's). King Hark philosophy of mechs as well.

Edited by Feral Clown, 28 August 2019 - 02:05 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Feral Clown, on 27 August 2019 - 06:51 PM, said:

Absolutely nothing wrong with it's convergence and not low enough to be a hindrance.

Yes there is.

Feral Clown, on 27 August 2019 - 06:51 PM, said:

It is not even a question the X1 is the best period.

No, it still is a question.

Feral Clown, on 27 August 2019 - 06:51 PM, said:

It's even listed on Grimmechs while Shadow Hawk does not.

So the experts have spoken and you are wrong.

LOL ... Experts on Grimmechs.

Both ShadowHawk and Bushwacker are strong builds but both have their pros and cons.

FupDup, on 27 August 2019 - 06:48 PM, said:

However, the Shaq Hawk can take an XL engine with lower risk than the Bushwanker (Bush can't ever XL basically) to free up some more pod space.

Statements like this simply makes me wonder what are you people doing with your Bushes that they "can't ever XL" ...

[PhoenixFire55]

Feral Clown, on 27 August 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

However it has the less favourable structure quirks and a square easy to pick off profile. Bushie gets armor quirks on top of a slender profile that is built for racs (ie you don't torso twist in it).

You are entirely missing a point OP makes. The actual area of your mech you have to expose in order to fire all your weapons is much less with the ShadowHawk.

Feral Clown, on 27 August 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

Champion is not a medium and it is ridiculously stupid looking.

But then again, if "stupid looking" is an actual valid argument in your opinion then its probably pointless to explain anything here ...

Feral Clown, on 27 August 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

No the experts are over at Grimmechs.

I'm sorry to disappoint, but they aren't.

Feral Clown, on 27 August 2019 - 06:55 PM, said:

You can argue all you like but quirks and better profile make you wrong. It isn't even a debate, you simply have to accept you are wrong.

Shouting that someone is wrong many times and very loud doesn't make your own weaksauce arguments any better.

Feral Clown, on 27 August 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

You play at potato level so I take anything you say with a metric **** ton of salt.

You play at potato level compared to me. So? How's that mountain of salt treating ya?

[PhoenixFire55]

ShiverMeRivets, on 28 August 2019 - 02:28 AM, said:

RACs are good weapons if you want to inflate your damage/kill numbers. Because why just kill them when you can strip every bit of armor they have before actually destroying something?

The fact that you can't aim doesn't necesserily mean that others can't too. It spreads about as much as other non-pinpoint weapons such as lasers and clan ACs or other low cooldown pinpoint weapons such as AC 2s and 5s. Because that spread depends (if you can aim) on the ability of your target to spread the damage more than on you.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 29 August 2019 - 04:04 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Sjorpha, on 28 August 2019 - 05:39 AM, said:

In a duel you can easily force a full exposure face-off and the Bushie will just steamroll the shawq.

That is generally true. However I'd still like to see exactly how "easy" it will be if two duel on Polar/Alpine rather than the tiny Solaris maps.

[PhoenixFire55]

Verilligo, on 28 August 2019 - 10:39 AM, said:

The Gauss/XL Warhammer is a high tier QP mech.

Gauss/XL Warhammer is trash. And that coming from someone who has six different XL Warhammers and can use them very well.

[Verilligo]

PhoenixFire55, on 29 August 2019 - 04:11 AM, said:

Gauss/XL Warhammer is trash. And that coming from someone who has six different XL Warhammers and can use them very well.

Well then you can go debate that with Bows3r. I can very much see the merit in the Gauss/XL Whammy, and I'm sure a talented player can twist and poke until they're stripped of armor everywhere. But I'm not about to say that it's a build I can personally pull off. 2 GR/4 ERML on an LFE 270/280 with 4.5/5 tons of ammo is much more my thing as a mere mortal.

[Nameless King]

The Shadow Hawk 2H has been my main mech in QP with Rac 2's for as long as Racs have been in the game never had a problem. I hate the bushwacker, it does not go well with my playstyle it is just not mobile enough.

[Feral Clown]

PhoenixFire55, on 29 August 2019 - 03:57 AM, said:

You are entirely missing a point OP makes. The actual area of your mech you have to expose in order to fire all your weapons is much less with the ShadowHawk.


But then again, if "stupid looking" is an actual valid argument in your opinion then its probably pointless to explain anything here ...


I'm sorry to disappoint, but they aren't.


Shouting that someone is wrong many times and very loud doesn't make your own weaksauce arguments any better.


You play at potato level compared to me. So? How's that mountain of salt treating ya?

Champion is not a medium I just threw in the stupid looking part.

And if you think you can do better than Denn, Tarragato, Navid, Bowser, Kras, Lizzee, Jay Z...by all means dude head on over to the discord and make your arguments.

[Feral Clown]

PhoenixFire55, on 29 August 2019 - 03:57 AM, said:

You play at potato level compared to me. So? How's that mountain of salt treating ya?

I don't think you are that far off saying that because I understand the gap between someone like me getting into 97th/98th percentile with PGI's broken match score system and 99 percenters.

I compare your kdr especially to my own (on a bunch of accounts even), and absolutely think I am a potato in comparison.

So, I'll use the salt on my chips since I am not ashamed that I am not as good, nor deluded into thinking I am, or am upset by your success.

Honesty to me is valuable no matter the verbiage used.

[SpessMarine]

Did y'all have the Bushie vs Shad RAC fight yet? Make sure someone records it!

[PhoenixFire55]

SpessMarine, on 29 August 2019 - 08:16 PM, said:

Did y'all have the Bushie vs Shad RAC fight yet? Make sure someone records it!

The thing is its not hard at all to do a fight between them. Its just that it proves nothing. For starters pilots are different and thus you will only prove that pilot 1 in mech A is better than pilot 2 in mech B on a select particular map. As mentioned above its more or less obvious that on a small map where you can simply facehug your opponent Bushwacker will win. However should the situation change to a big open hill-humping map or a map that gives a huge advantage to mechs with JJs the outcome might be very different.

Another example if you like ... We all know that MKII-B is one of the strongest mechs in QP and widely considered "meta". However it also doesn't dominate its Solaris division ... like there aren't even any MKII's actually been played there. Why? ... Simple. Its a different scenario at which it just isn't anywhere near as good as some other mechs.

[Feral Clown]

PhoenixFire55, on 29 August 2019 - 04:11 AM, said:

Gauss/XL Warhammer is trash. And that coming from someone who has six different XL Warhammers and can use them very well.

Whoa I missed that one.

I have six XL gauss hammers alone.

The LFE Gauss Whammy is trash. Too slow and not enough ammo especially for someone like me who built them around CW (84 rounds). LFE on the 6D though is bae.

Have done 1700 in quick play in them and 2200 in CW. It's a staple, go to, mech I love. Since I have played this game way more than most really should, I also have an insane amout of time in them.

Edited by Feral Clown, 30 August 2019 - 02:27 AM.