140 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Kol Koontz, on 12 September 2019 - 09:31 PM, said:

I find it more amusing that you actually put stock into what PGI claims.

The working as intended that Paul proclaimed in a podcast with Phil a couple of years back sounded way more like PGI's usual cop out and programming hard that we've heard for many years now.

If that is what my claim is solely based on, then you would be right. However, it is also based on empirical observation (e.g. demonstrated upward bias of the system) and the wailing on the forums (a sentiment analysis might be a revealing activity -- any takers? ).

It's definitely better than merely basing it on "PGI lies" or, worse, "PGI always lies".

PhoenixFire55, on 13 September 2019 - 12:23 AM, said:

Minimally Viable Product^TM.

And that's how the PSR system should be viewed. It's not really a (failed) "skill" based matchmaker. And other than the name -- and in spite of what people desire or think it was meant to be -- it's not pretending to be one. It is one of those very rare moments when it is most probably exactly what PGI claims it to be.

That's the problem when people go down the "PGI always lies" slope. But, hey, if people want to go down that route, that's on them.

Edited by Mystere, 13 September 2019 - 02:50 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Mystere, on 13 September 2019 - 02:31 AM, said:

And that's how the PSR system should be viewed. It's not really a (failed) "skill" based matchmaker. And other than the name -- and in spite of what people desire or think it was meant to be -- it's not pretending to be one. It is one of those very rare moments when it is most probably exactly what PGI claims it to be.

That's the problem when people go down the "PGI always lies" slope. But, hey, if people want to go down that route, that's on them.

Dude, just stop your BS. PSR means Player Skill Rating, period. A skill rating that has nothing to do with skill, while it for all intents and purposes does pretend to be a skill rating, and advertised by PGI as a skill rating that is Working as Intended^TM.

PGI doesn't always lie, because I'm pretty sure that if you dig real hard you can find some truth in what they say. However PSR is a clear example of yet another outright and utter lie. And no, its not just broken, it is designed to be broken, simple coz it serves a completely different purpose.

[Mystere]

PhoenixFire55, on 13 September 2019 - 03:25 AM, said:

it serves a completely different purpose.

And that purpose looks exactly what they said it was.

Edited by Mystere, 13 September 2019 - 04:08 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Mystere, on 13 September 2019 - 04:07 AM, said:

And that purpose looks exactly what they said it was.

Whatever they've said to cover their a**es half a year past PSR release after tiers became an apparent trainwreck is quite frankly irrelevant. What matters is what they've said when they were selling it to us.

[Nesutizale]

I don't think that the PSR system was a lie, more a show of incompatance or lack of talent to implement it right.
IIRC the basic idea of the PSR wasn't that bad, what became of it...well we have seen that. Still that isn't lying. Its not beeing able to do what you planed to do.

[PhoenixFire55]

Nesutizale, on 13 September 2019 - 07:43 AM, said:

I don't think that the PSR system was a lie, more a show of incompatance or lack of talent to implement it right.
IIRC the basic idea of the PSR wasn't that bad, what became of it...well we have seen that. Still that isn't lying. Its not beeing able to do what you planed to do.

Never stops to amaze you how after 7 years of non-stop lies there are still PGI apologists saying things like that.
Yeah ... sure ... they lacked talent to change five XML values in order to make PSR symmetrical.
That given people told them that this clusterf*ck will happen even before PSR was implemented.
Just LOL.

[Prototelis]

PSR is one of the laziest matchmaking implementations I've ever seen.

Its a complete insult to the work put it on some of the other core features of the game.

[Nesutizale]

PhoenixFire55, on 13 September 2019 - 09:47 AM, said:

Never stops to amaze you how after 7 years of non-stop lies there are still PGI apologists saying things like that.
Yeah ... sure ... they lacked talent to change five XML values in order to make PSR symmetrical.
That given people told them that this clusterf*ck will happen even before PSR was implemented.
Just LOL.

Its amazing how people who hate the game and company are still around after seven years. Got nothing better to do or is it for your blood pressure?

[PhoenixFire55]

Nesutizale, on 13 September 2019 - 12:47 PM, said:

Its amazing how people who hate the game and company are still around after seven years. Got nothing better to do or is it for your blood pressure?

Translates as: I've got nothing intelligent to say so I'll just make a random personal attack.
I'd suggest you worry about your own blood pressure mr. triggered.

[Mystere]

PhoenixFire55, on 13 September 2019 - 04:34 AM, said:

Whatever they've said to cover their a**es half a year past PSR release after tiers became an apparent trainwreck is quite frankly irrelevant. What matters is what they've said when they were selling it to us.

Directly from the horse's mouth:

Quote

Tiers are NOT a RANK.

Quote

If we were to turn off new player registration/sign-up and just let the current player base play on forever, eventually everyone will bubble up to Tier 2 or Tier 1.

Some figured this out days after release. Others figured it out after around a month, while others a few months after. There are those, on the other hand, who have not even figured it out in spite of all the "PSR is just an experience bar!" wailing on the forums. Well, it's either that or they are in denial.

What else is there to say?

PhoenixFire55, on 13 September 2019 - 02:00 PM, said:

Translates as: I've got nothing intelligent to say so I'll just make a random personal attack.
I'd suggest you worry about your own blood pressure mr. triggered.

How ironic for someone who first called others PGI apologists. <shrugs>

Edited by Mystere, 13 September 2019 - 05:26 PM.

[Lightfoot]

@Antares102

You should take down the doctored graph and put up the real one in your first post. There are 17000-18000 players currently.

Of course Piranha could show MWO some love. More maps, good ones only though like River City or Tourmaline, etc. Must look realistic or keep working on it till it does as this has a big impact on the player experience.

I play a number of games, but MWO is the only game I play where the PvP is balanced and makes sense and mostly there aren't 10,000 swear words in the chat. Good old MechWarrior.

[Mystere]

Sigmar Sich, on 01 September 2019 - 03:12 PM, said:

I don't know what i'm waiting for here. A few more empty patches? A sudden delivery of "the Year of Faction Play"? Oh, dammit.

No. You're here waiting for that big fiery moment when everything finally goes down in flames.

[LordNothing]

Nesutizale, on 13 September 2019 - 07:43 AM, said:

I don't think that the PSR system was a lie, more a show of incompatance or lack of talent to implement it right.
IIRC the basic idea of the PSR wasn't that bad, what became of it...well we have seen that. Still that isn't lying. Its not beeing able to do what you planed to do.

i think of it more as a half truth. pgi has simply made the decision that experience > ability. it serves no other purpose than to be a noob shield. new players coming in will be immediately shielded by the system up till the point where they start playing at an average level, then they will be in t1 hell in 3 weeks. it serves no purpose what so ever for long term denizens of the player base (unless they are so bad that a positive bias still cant elevate them). and much less considering that the valves are almost certainly all the way open at this point on account of the diminishing player pool. they might occasionally be closed at peak hours during an event. but most of the time its an idle system.

honestly it should be called per (though pxr sounds better) since skill and experience are two completely different things. hince the half truth is a matter of having x and calling it y.

[Asym]

LordNothing, on 15 September 2019 - 06:56 AM, said:

i think of it more as a half truth. pgi has simply made the decision that experience > ability. it serves no other purpose than to be a noob shield. new players coming in will be immediately shielded by the system up till the point where they start playing at an average level, then they will be in t1 hell in 3 weeks. it serves no purpose what so ever for long term denizens of the player base (unless they are so bad that a positive bias still cant elevate them). and much less considering that the valves are almost certainly all the way open at this point on account of the diminishing player pool. they might occasionally be closed at peak hours during an event. but most of the time its an idle system.

honestly it should be called per (though pxr sounds better) since skill and experience are two completely different things. hince the half truth is a matter of having x and calling it y.

Actually, I consider myself one of that group..... I've been at 2 for well over a year and can't see ever getting to wanting to get to 1....!!! I'd prefer to be at 4 or 5....

And that, what is underlined is the crux of the issue. Well said.

[LordNothing]

Lightfoot, on 14 September 2019 - 07:50 PM, said:

@Antares102

You should take down the doctored graph and put up the real one in your first post. There are 17000-18000 players currently.

Of course Piranha could show MWO some love. More maps, good ones only though like River City or Tourmaline, etc. Must look realistic or keep working on it till it does as this has a big impact on the player experience.

I play a number of games, but MWO is the only game I play where the PvP is balanced and makes sense and mostly there aren't 10,000 swear words in the chat. Good old MechWarrior.

one of the core problems with mwo and its use of the f2p model is that pgi was never able to provide enough content to keep the game interesting. they clearly have some efficiency problems. the quarter-million-per-map price tag you used to see floating around are somewhat absurd. how does it cost that much to make a map and why couldn't they find ways to cut the costs? the amount of time invested into newtech was absurd, its not the weapons but they had to do model retrofits everywhere to support the visual aesthetic. its pretty much a work harder not smarter scenario. they needed to role content off an assembly line, but its like they hand crafted everything. they also lost their lead programmer way to early in the game's life cycle. they could have really used a programmer to develop a better external weapon model system or procedural terrain generation (non-real-time). their biggest failing might be their inability to market and fund new content. there should have been supporter packs for everything from map dev, newtech, modes, fp, etc. premium equipment, more consumable types, buffing potato tier mechs until they are viable, and thus sellable. f2p model really thrives on that stuff.

[Asym]

LordNothing, on 15 September 2019 - 07:32 AM, said:

one of the core problems with mwo and its use of the f2p model is that pgi was never able to provide enough content to keep the game interesting. they clearly have some efficiency problems. the quarter-million-per-map price tag you used to see floating around are somewhat absurd. how does it cost that much to make a map and why couldn't they find ways to cut the costs? the amount of time invested into newtech was absurd, its not the weapons but they had to do model retrofits everywhere to support the visual aesthetic. its pretty much a work harder not smarter scenario. they needed to role content off an assembly line, but its like they hand crafted everything. they also lost their lead programmer way to early in the game's life cycle. they could have really used a programmer to develop a better external weapon model system or procedural terrain generation (non-real-time). their biggest failing might be their inability to market and fund new content. there should have been supporter packs for everything from map dev, newtech, modes, fp, etc. premium equipment, more consumable types, buffing potato tier mechs until they are viable, and thus sellable. f2p model really thrives on that stuff.

Alas, this game existed in a Blue Ocean and still managed to screw it up....

What you said is spot on. Innovation isn't even in PGI's vocabulary; let alone, getting out-of-the-box and involving the customers to help fund changes the customer's desperately wanted.

I have never seen a corporation with such a valuable IP and value proposition, have so very little strategic vision: never and that is over 45 years of working in advanced process and systems, high reliability corporations..... Never....

Again, well said. The absolute irony of where we are is; all they had to do is ASK..........and then, DO....

Edited by Asym, 15 September 2019 - 11:43 AM.

[Anjian]

Lightfoot, on 14 September 2019 - 07:50 PM, said:

@Antares102

You should take down the doctored graph and put up the real one in your first post. There are 17000-18000 players currently.

Of course Piranha could show MWO some love. More maps, good ones only though like River City or Tourmaline, etc. Must look realistic or keep working on it till it does as this has a big impact on the player experience.

I play a number of games, but MWO is the only game I play where the PvP is balanced and makes sense and mostly there aren't 10,000 swear words in the chat. Good old MechWarrior.

17,000 is nothing in today's economics. Less than 200,000 can be considered a failed game.

[Vellron2005]

If you ask me, the biggest mistake PGI has done with MWO was in it's base design.

Instead of a Solaris-like PVP arena where the game consists of players shooting eachother on an arena-like map, the game was supposed to be story and event driven.

This game's main mode is Quick Play. It should have been Faction play, or original Community Warfare. Quick play should have been "Arcade mode", and FP should have been "Campaign mode".

All other problems in this game stem from the lack of substance beyond "pew pew, I shoot you"

[Kroete]

Vellron2005, on 16 September 2019 - 12:29 AM, said:

If you ask me, the biggest mistake PGI has done with MWO was in it's base design.

You mean the shifts in the design. after they droped the pillars,
MWO was made for units and solos playing cw,
shifted for solos in qp,
shifted for groups playing gp,
shifted for solos in qp,
shifted for groups in cw,
shifted for solos in cw,
shifted to solos in qp,
shifted for groups in cw.
shifted for esports solaris,
back to qp,
back to cw,
back to qp,
...
And in the end nothing was made good,
we have a lot of bandaids and halfbaked modes,
where only the simplest mode is still aviable.

PGI has no plan what they want and droped the pillars that made their base design, the only plan they keeped was selling robots. But selling robots is not enough, players need playgrounds for their toys, they need maps and gamemodes, but they got only toys and promisses.
They left the island ....

But visiting the island can still be relaxing, if i am in the mood and stoned enough for it but too stoned for other multiplayer games.

Edited by Kroete, 16 September 2019 - 01:08 AM.

[Joshua McEvedy]

Vellron2005, on 16 September 2019 - 12:29 AM, said:

This game's main mode is Quick Play. It should have been Faction play, or original Community Warfare. Quick play should have been "Arcade mode", and FP should have been "Campaign mode".

Well.... that was PGI's original plan, right? Quickplay was supposed to only be a placeholder because of continuing delays in development of Community Warfare, and in 2013, the then hundreds of thousands of MWO players were already growing restless. To quiet the waters, PGI even dropped the Clan Wave 1 packages before Community Warfare went live in December 2014. But then "Redditgate" and the "Transverse" debacle happened, which were the company's first publicly exposed lies, and then after a great six-month Community Warfare Phase 1 and 2 jumpoff, Russ and Paul sent it off the rails with Phase 3, followed thereafter by incessant balancing nerfs, the great "de-quirkening," engine de-coupling, skill tree replacement, the Solaris dud, last years' stalling of mech pack sales and new content development, Paul's "too tired, nothing new" speech at MechCon, and finally Russ' "maintenance mode" podcast of May 29th.

So here we are at the End of Days.