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Exploring Faction Play Suggestion: Planets, Jumpships And Dropships.


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#1 Sigmar Sich

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 02:04 PM

Why? Curiosity.
What do you guys think about this design? Would it interest units to play FP?
It is not a replacement for the current system, but an additional layer, strictly for units. Event scenarios will continue as they are, utilizing unowned planets.

Place: the same Inner Sphere map, with addition of Periphery systems.
The year is 3051 or 3052, somewhere between early Clan Invasion and the Battle of Tukayyid. To give Clans some foothold.

Factions: same old, plus ComStar as additional IS faction. (because ComStar have its fans too, and it will even out IS and Clan faction count: 7 vs 7)

_____
TL;DR
Units can claim a homeworld, and they can upgrade it with fortifications and other features.
Units can possess JumpShips, and through JumpShips they can travel to other planets to attack them.
Units can assign a DropShip squadron to a JumpShip or a planet, to provide benefits in combat.
Captured planets can be upgraded, though to a lesser extent than the homeworld.
Matches will be launched on Friday and Sunday or something (similar to Comp Q, for easier organization). Or someting else, help me here with ideas.
Match is played in the defender's timezone (? dunno). If multiple attacker units are present, they must fight each other for the right to attack the planet. (Same goes for a homeworld claim if there are multiple bidders).
For possession of planets units receive various rewards.

_____
Units.
Can be of two types - Loyalist unit or Mercenary unit. (differences later).
Unit consists of up to 100 players (this is the current limit, yes?). This number can be increased by buying JumpShips.
Recruitment fee remains, to deter unit hopping.

Loyalist units can bid for homeworld within the borders of their faction, and attack planets of any other faction, except Periphery systems.
Loyalist units have a status, according to their K/D ratio (or W/L if you like) - Militia, Regulars, Guards.
Loyalist units can issue a call for reinforcements to units of the same faction.
Loyalist units can create mercenary contracts.

Mercenary units can bid for a homeworld in the Periphery, attack any planet in the Periphery, and accept any mercenary contract outside the Periphery.
Mercenary units are accounted by MRBC (Mercenary Review and Bonding Commission), being assigned a rating from one to five stars, according to their general W/L ratio in FP.
Mercenary units can accept mercenary contracts (about this later).

Unit starts with a singular JumpShip orbiting their capital world (mercs can choose between Outreach, Galatea, Solaris 7, Arc-Royal, Northwind). Capital worlds cannot be attacked by any party.

JumpShips.
Invader class, the most common type. Can carry 3 dropships, exactly what we need. Used both by IS factions and Clans.
JumpShips can not be lost, sold or destroyed (except on unit disbanding). On creation unit have one JumpShip.
Unit can purchase additional JumpShips, the number is finite (3-4 total, i suppose). Each JumpShip provides additional 50 members to unit's limit.

JumpShips can perform a jump to a planet, within a limited distance. Let's say X number of systems on the shortest route. Then jump drive starts recharging for some time (day/s?).
Unit can decide to attack a planet their JumpShip is orbiting (unless planet is held by a loyalist unit of the same faction). Or to wait for another jump. Multiple attacks are possible, if unit have multiple jumpships in appropriate positions.

Loyalist units have no information about any JumpShips present in orbits outside of their faction territory, or the systems orbited by unit's JumpShips.
Mercenaries have no information about any JumpShips outside of planets owned by the unit, and outside of 1 jump radius from any JumpShip owned by the unit.

DropShips.
Good old Leopard, since it is the only flyable dropship model the game has.
3 dropships are a single entity, let's call it a squadron.
Any unit in any situation always have a use of the default unupgraded Leopard squadron.
DropShip squadron is a physicalized entity, and specific squadrons can be assigned to a specific JumpShip or a planet in unit's possession.

DS squadrons account their individual location, and cannot be swapped to another location, except between JumpShip and a planet it is orbiting, or between two of unit's JumpShips orbiting the same planet. Exception - default squadron that can be used anywhere, regardless of place or other equipped squadrons.

New DropShip squadrons can be bought :
Loyalists - on their own faction territory for a normal price, or at their faction capital world for a discount, or at unit's homeworld, if required structures were built.
Mercs - everywhere for a normal price, at merc hubs for a discount, or at their homeworld, if required structures were built.

Various squadrons differ from each other by their weapon loadouts they bring into the battle.
For example:
default Leopard (2 PPC, 3 LRM20, 7 med lasers, 5 large lasers)
and apocryphal variants:
Leopard LS (lostech) - upgraded with ER equipment and Artemis;
Leopard G (gunboat) - focuses on PPC and AC/5 weaponry
Leoprad M (missile) - focus on LRMs
Leopard P (proximity) - focus on medium lasers and SSRMs, etc.

There can be clan variant, called Broadsword. But it is seriously overpowered (2 cERLL, 2 cERPPC, 8 cMPL, 2 cSPL (!), cAMS, 5 cALRM20, 2 cSSRM6), and needs tuning down.
Details are not important right now, and can be fleshed out later.

Planets.
Every unit can claim a homeworld. Merc Units can do so only in the Periphery, Loyalist units can do so only outside the Periphery, and except planets already claimed by units of the same faction (maybe with exchanges).
Basically, at the start, there will be zero claimed planets. Units will guide their jump ships to their targets, and will attempt to claim a homeworld. If there's no competition, claim is successful. If the're multiple bidders, they are randomly pitted against each other in a classic championship system, resulting in a final battle between semi-finalists.

All planets are ranked in three tiers, from unit perspective. Tier 1 - homeworld, tier 2 - all planets within a radius of one jump, tier 3 - all planets in a circle between 1 and 2 jumps.
Planetary tier determines the maximum upgrade level of the planet.
Tiers are relative - tier 3 planet for a one unit can be tier 2 or even a homeworld for another unit.

Tiers also influence rewards that unit receives by possessing planets. Rewards include MC, and LP for loyalists.

Planetary upgrades consist from fortifications (turret types), and other structures of various purposes. For example a spaceport, allowing use of non-default DropShip squadron. Or various factories, providing DropShip discounts, etc.

Turrets can be of different tiers (light, medium, heavy) and various loadouts.
For example default Light Laser Turret (2 ML), or Heavy Shredder Turret (4 SSRM6 + 2 Flamers), or Medium Lance Turret (2 AC/2), etc.
Chosen turrets will be present on the battlefield.

When losing a planet, all its structures are reset to a default.

Matchmaking.
There are two types of games - battle for a planet, or competition for a right to attack a planet, if there are multiple attackers for the same planet.

Battle for a planet is a single game on a random Siege map.

Competitions can be a single game (if only two competitors) or a championship ladder (if multiple competitors). Game mode - Conquest (or whatever) on a random QP map.
After Competition is complete, battle for a planet begins. Unless there were too many competitors, then defense battle is pushed into the next phase.

To qualify for a battle, unit must provide a group of 8-12 players. Failure to provide at least 8 players will result in auto defeat with severe penalties (counting as double or triple defeat, or whatever, thwarting unit's rating).

How to make it work for different time zones, can be fleshed out later, with your help guys.

Call for reinforcements.
Loyalist units can issue call for reinforcements, instead of fighting the battle themselves. Caller can set a filter for a unit rank - Militia+, Regulars+, Guards only. For example Militia units can't answer Regulars+ or Guards only calls. There can be additional filters, banning specific units from answering the call (to minimize repeated griefing).

Calls can be answered by any qualifying unit with owned possessions (planets or jumpships) within 1 jump radius from the target. The first party to accept the call gets the task.
Calls can be issued both for attack and defense. On victory, trophies go to the party that issued the call (if call for defense was successfull, owner keeps his stuff, if call for attack was successful, caller gets a planet).

There can be a C-bill reward attached, but it kinda defeats the spirit of faction cooperation.

Mercenary Contracts
Can be issued by any non-mercenary unit, to hire mercs instead of fighting themselves. Filters can be set to require a unit of certain MRBC rating or higher, and filters to ban specific units.
Contracts can be taken by any mercenary unit with a possession (planet or JumpShip) within 1 (or maybe 2) jump radius from the target.

Who takes contract first - gets the job.
This does not prevent different parties issuing contracts to attack the same target. So if mercs accept to attack, they may have to fight a competition with other mercs on a similar contract, or a loyalist unit that drops personally.

A C-bill reward must be attached to the contract, with minimum and maximum limits, dependent on rank filters.

On victory, trophies go to the party that created the contract.

A loyalist unit can make only one action at a time for the target - fight personally, call allies, or create a contract.
Merc units can only accept contracts, or fight free-for-all in the Periphery.
____________
So what do you think? I know it is rough, but this is only a sketch to discuss.

Edited by Sigmar Sich, 01 September 2019 - 02:05 PM.


#2 Rexxxxxxxxx

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 05:54 PM

They tried to do something like this in the begining, and all it did was increase queue times dramatically.
If PGI can't make minor updates to Faction without breaking it, what makes you think they can do what your asking for?

You should learn to code and build a game like this yourself and see if it works.

#3 Mean Machine Angel x

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 10:12 PM

This game died ages ago,we are just a bunch of necrophiliacs playing with its corpse.

#4 Feral Clown

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 11:50 PM

People have been asking for this sort of thing to give the mode some depth the actual maps can't provide, but PGI never touched any of it.

#5 Sigmar Sich

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 05:34 AM

View PostRexxxxxxxxx, on 01 September 2019 - 05:54 PM, said:

They tried to do something like this in the begining, and all it did was increase queue times dramatically.
If PGI can't make minor updates to Faction without breaking it, what makes you think they can do what your asking for?

You should learn to code and build a game like this yourself and see if it works.

Not really, originally they had a lot of "buckets", splitting general queue many times. Yes, waiting times were huge, but some people would say it was the best time for CW.
But suggestion would result in scheduled games between unit teams. No teams - no games scheduled, mode regulates itself. Similar to Comp Q, no buckets.
And no, i don't think PGI can do any of this. Was just drooling over a broken dream, before probably uninstalling for good.

Btw, i have a decade as a game dev, but still am a crappy coder Posted Image Coding was not my specialty.

View PostMean Machine Angel x, on 01 September 2019 - 10:12 PM, said:

This game died ages ago,we are just a bunch of necrophiliacs playing with its corpse.

Pretty much, yes.
I thought i was done with it, but was foolish enough to believe into that "year of Faction Play", and reinstall.

View PostFeral Clown, on 01 September 2019 - 11:50 PM, said:

People have been asking for this sort of thing to give the mode some depth the actual maps can't provide, but PGI never touched any of it.

Yeah, i know. Posted Image
I was curious to explore the form, which original promises of CW could materialize into. A lot needs to be fleshed out, but it seems it was pretty doable, even by PGI standards at the time. Not now, of course..
Just screaming into the void for a last time...

#6 justcallme A S H

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 07:56 PM

TBH no point asking/discussing something that will never happen/come to fruition.

That's just looking at it from a logical standpoint.

#7 Feral Clown

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 10:17 PM

View PostSigmar Sich, on 02 September 2019 - 05:34 AM, said:

Yeah, i know. Posted Image
I was curious to explore the form, which original promises of CW could materialize into. A lot needs to be fleshed out, but it seems it was pretty doable, even by PGI standards at the time. Not now, of course..
Just screaming into the void for a last time...


I hate that Ash is right, but he is.

Really though it would have been awesome for us CW diehards if they only allowed for siege maps and quick play maps in CW format with drop decks be done in private lobbies. I can imagine what NBT guys or dudes like yourself could have done with this in running a league.

#8 Appogee

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 11:39 PM

PGI have given up on MWO in general, and Faction Play in particular.

Their commitment that this would be "The Year of Faction Play" has been proven to be a balloon conjured by a desperate clown who, finding himself spotlighted on the stage at MechCon, had no plan, and nothing to say.

It's a shame. All we can do now is vote with our wallets, remember that PGI has been baiting us with illusions for years, and spend as much on their products as their word has proven to be worth.

Edited by Appogee, 03 September 2019 - 12:39 AM.


#9 Sigmar Sich

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 01:39 AM

You're right, guys.
Thanks for comments.

#10 LordNothing

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 02:40 AM

View PostAppogee, on 02 September 2019 - 11:39 PM, said:

PGI have given up on MWO in general, and Faction Play in particular.

Their commitment that this would be "The Year of Faction Play" has been proven to be a balloon conjured by a desperate clown who, finding himself spotlighted on the stage at MechCon, had no plan, and nothing to say.

It's a shame. All we can do now is vote with our wallets, remember that PGI has been baiting us with illusions for years, and spend as much on their products as their word has proven to be worth.


this is why we should have quads. with the clowns who run pgi, circus mechs are a good fit. of course a mech pack wont fix this.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 September 2019 - 02:46 AM.


#11 50 50

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Posted 03 September 2019 - 07:21 PM

View PostSigmar Sich, on 02 September 2019 - 05:34 AM, said:

Yeah, i know. Posted Image
I was curious to explore the form, which original promises of CW could materialize into. A lot needs to be fleshed out, but it seems it was pretty doable, even by PGI standards at the time. Not now, of course..
Just screaming into the void for a last time...


I will go along with the 'it's interesting to discuss possible ways it could have been done' aspect of this.

Personally I think one of the big problems is the actual map.
With 300 or whatever planets in there and the borders preventing conflict between the factions we started with something that could not be maintained.
The additional overhead for trying to do things like add bases and extra defenses to specific planets increases that 'data storage' aspect and while it would provide a nice detailed view of the entire galaxy it's not practical for a PvP system.

I would have thought that it would have been better to reduce the galaxy to perhaps 4 'solar systems' per faction to reduce that data and then build depth into each of those 'solar systems' both in terms of how we go about attacking and defending them and also any 'lore fluff' players would like.
Admittedly, I would have thought that some of that extra data like owning a dropship or having a base would be stored under the player or unit profile and not the map itself.

If there are no borders preventing conflict then you could just have a system where players form a group and queue up in a single queue to fight anyone else. This would have allowed inter-faction conflict on a scale that has not been possible in any of the iterations of community warfare/faction play. If anything, we might want to look at combining some factions so that the individual 'solar systems' can have more meaning and impact.

Jump distances between planets also suggests some form of travel time or having to wait. In a PvP environment where we want to be having battles constantly 24/7 we can't really use time as part of a logistics system. The problem is that you might set out towards a planet because that is where the fighting is, but if you don't get there 'in time' that battlefront could have shifted. This would have been particularly bad with the very short 8 hour attack phases. you can't have players not able to use mechs or prevented from fighting in a conflict because they can't travel there 'in time'.
'Time' would need to be converted to some other measurement.

If logistics is primarily about time and cost to get mechs to a battle, then time needs to be part of the cost.
I had thought this possible by giving players a number of 'Logistic Points' at the start of an attack phase and then spending those 'Logistic Points' to assign a drop deck to a planet using some sort of formula based on the drop deck tonnage.
What you then end up with is using bases, jumpships and drop ships as a way to modify that cost and limits which can be stored on the player and unit profile.
It might have been like buying a 'module' for the unit or the drop deck and it would also have allowed for the introduction of faction based as well as 'solar system' based modifiers.
For example: Davion has a really good logistics system so players loyal to that faction get bonus 'Logistic Points'. If your faction controlled certain 'solar systems' you might have a different base number of 'Logistic Points' at the start of an attack phase.

That sort of thing.

Anyhoo.... made a video of this sort of thing at one point.

#12 Sigmar Sich

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 05:20 AM

View Post50 50, on 03 September 2019 - 07:21 PM, said:

I will go along with the 'it's interesting to discuss possible ways it could have been done' aspect of this.

Thanks for commenting.

Not sure what do you mean about borders preventing conflicts.
In my suggestion a unit can take its jumpships anywhere, and attack a planet to make it its home. The only real border would be between IS and Periphery - but this is to prevent merc units messing with lore, yet still be able to claim planets. They still will be messing with Periphery lore, because it has established states, but it is less weird than having custom factions claiming chunks of the Inner Sphere.

Sure, if Marik or Liao units want to fight Clans, they would have to make a few empty jumps, but such is the Inner Sphere, they are not the frontline of Invasion. They can still attack their neighbours, if they are so impatient, or if they want IS vs IS fight.

And about travel times - no, no travel times. JumpShips travel instantaneously (lore). There is some time involved to spool the drive, but then travel is instant - ship just appears at the destination. Then it have to recharge for a significant time, but you are already at your destination.
Flying towards a target will involve some time spent on a conventional flight with the DropShip, but it can be ignored, to not overcomplicate things.

Suggested system is turn based, with two phases - 1) making JumpShip moves and choosing your action (attack, do nothing, call reinforcements, create a contract); and 2) scheduled matches to resolve current conflicts. Then repeat.
So there will be no information lag - you will always know whom you going to attack. The only unknown is who else coming for the same target. But this is usually resolved through offline diplomacy.

The more i think of it, the more it reminds me how it was done in World of Tanks. And it worked well. Better than ours, anyway.

Edited by Sigmar Sich, 04 September 2019 - 05:22 AM.


#13 50 50

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 08:42 PM

View PostSigmar Sich, on 04 September 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

Thanks for commenting.
Not sure what do you mean about borders preventing conflicts.

In my suggestion a unit can take its jumpships anywhere, and attack a planet to make it its home. The only real border would be between IS and Periphery - but this is to prevent merc units messing with lore, yet still be able to claim planets. They still will be messing with Periphery lore, because it has established states, but it is less weird than having custom factions claiming chunks of the Inner Sphere.

Sure, if Marik or Liao units want to fight Clans, they would have to make a few empty jumps, but such is the Inner Sphere, they are not the frontline of Invasion. They can still attack their neighbours, if they are so impatient, or if they want IS vs IS fight.


On the map as it was, we could have the situation of having a bunch of Marik players online but unable to get a game as the only other players online were clan.

So while you are alleviating that situation somewhat by allowing multiple jumps, having a jump feature to move resources (mechs and players) around the map suggests that there has to be a limit to how many jumps can be made to create some level of strategy which is where you have made the point about limited jump distance and a recharge duration that could take days. (I am assuming you mean real time)

If there are unlimited jumps it defeats the purpose of having the feature. You would need to introduce some other trade off for being able to do so such as whether you could take more mechs, or have the drop ship squadron support at all.

There was also the bit about being able to assist or reinforce if within a certain distance.

So while you mentioned about jumping past borders there is still the element of distance and time to get to a location which creates an obstacle for players to get into a battle. To compare to the original Community Warfare setup, there was no travelling or time involved but it was limited by distance so if one faction was not adjacent to another there was no hope of a fight between those two factions.
If the game is only PvP where the players are the only inhabitants of the entire galaxy, when the game is about fighting in mechs it needs to ensure those players can battle it out.


View PostSigmar Sich, on 04 September 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

And about travel times - no, no travel times. JumpShips travel instantaneously (lore). There is some time involved to spool the drive, but then travel is instant - ship just appears at the destination. Then it have to recharge for a significant time, but you are already at your destination.

Flying towards a target will involve some time spent on a conventional flight with the DropShip, but it can be ignored, to not overcomplicate things.

Suggested system is turn based, with two phases - 1) making JumpShip moves and choosing your action (attack, do nothing, call reinforcements, create a contract); and 2) scheduled matches to resolve current conflicts. Then repeat.

So there will be no information lag - you will always know whom you going to attack. The only unknown is who else coming for the same target. But this is usually resolved through offline diplomacy.

The more i think of it, the more it reminds me how it was done in World of Tanks. And it worked well. Better than ours, anyway.


Breaking the process up into the two stages of the strategy/movement stage and then the combat stage is an interesting approach. Would that suggest that it needs a duration to allow players to plan their strategy so while that is going on there is no combat? I would think that might need to last for several days to allow players around the world to post their moves.
At the end of that, particularly if dealing with a unit with a large number of players, there is potentially situations where you have all those players 'doing nothing' either due to the action taken or because during the first stage the unit is not within range of anything that will allow battle to occur or even have enough players to qualify for the battle as suggested.
There would be situations where two units have moved within range to fight each other but thanks to timezones they are not online at the same time to actually have that fight.

#14 LordNothing

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 04:54 PM

i think id actually use the idea i had for mwo2.

units could take planets and hold a base but they amount of stuff they can take with them to other locations in the inner sphere would decrease with distance. units would be nearly invincible on their own planet (like taking it out should be 10 times harder than winning a siege attack with the original long tom implementation going off), but projecting an attack say to a neighboring faction would come with restrictions. if you are liao and doing a deep raid into clan space you are talking a lot of resources and a very small tonnage allotment.

while a unit's homeworld must be in their own faction's space, units could capture outposts anywhere within the inner sphere but they must defend them, either directly or with hired garrison forces. this would be a good way to better incorporate pugs into the mode. holding a garrison would give you a home field advantage against superior units, 400 ton deck limits and field repair facilities, defensive structures (like the turrets from mw4), against a unit who only have the assets they brought with them in their drop ships.

outposts for units also provide staging areas to extend their deployment range. so if you are liao and want to attack clan space, you might need to capture an outpost in frr, kurita or steiner space. this would allow you to bring more tonnage to bear against the clans than attacking directly.

mercs units can be issued missions by loyalist units, like defending their space or eliminating hostile outposts. capturing outposts for future deployments, even supporting major offensives. they may use their contracted unit's facilities and dropships and get paid from partly from the faction and partly by the unit that hires them.

so yea create a place for everyone. allow asymmetrical battles so even the worst pugs/units stand a chance. logistics become relevant. you have big map strategies and the like. but this will never happen in mwo.

#15 50 50

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 11:11 PM

It's that level of detail and strategic planning that I think many were interested in seeing when the initial concept talked about having bases and drop ships owned by players and units and so on.

The whole approach with the drop decks and the battles and the combat all works pretty well but it does feel like we've only dipped a toe into the water in terms of possibilities.

The question is basically: How do you turn MWO into an MMO with player driven events and assets (bases etc) that provide some sort of modifier or benefit?

Let's just straight up say that it's not possible under the current system.... well.... not without massive significant change.... so let's just say no.
It's not even possible using MW5 and it is because of distances and travel times dictated by the map.

It will work as a single player game because those distances and the time to travel can be accelerated but that travel is still depicted as taking days or weeks. It's not the jump between stars, though having to jump multiple times to get to a location and wait for the recharge of the jumpship is an issue, but the travel time it takes back and forth from the jumpship to the planets kills it for a player vs player/MMO style of game.

All MMOs have some form of fast travel to get from their home to a location so while a player could take the slow way to a location and it might take hours or days in realtime, there is always some option to get there in seconds to get into the action quickly.
Currently in MWO we do not use distances at all. We don't even acknowledge that there is any travel.
If we did, we would only need to represent it cinematically either using the jumpships to get to the designated star system and then warp the dropships to the planet, or jump straight to the planet and just use the dropships to... um ... drop.

That depth and additional strategy would still be missing though and for MWO, particularly in it's current state, we would need to be a little more abstract in how to represent what is essentially a logistics feature.
This is where I believe values such as the minimum and maximum tonnage on the drop decks are not being utlizied enough, or even allocating drop decks to particular planets so if you have a fight there, you use that drop deck.
Bases and that sort of thing could be something that then adds supply chain modifiers or benefits that once again could have an impact on the drop decks.
Just something that adds a little bit of a strategic element at the map and faction level.

#16 LordNothing

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 08:49 PM

View Post50 50, on 10 September 2019 - 11:11 PM, said:

It's that level of detail and strategic planning that I think many were interested in seeing when the initial concept talked about having bases and drop ships owned by players and units and so on.

The whole approach with the drop decks and the battles and the combat all works pretty well but it does feel like we've only dipped a toe into the water in terms of possibilities.

The question is basically: How do you turn MWO into an MMO with player driven events and assets (bases etc) that provide some sort of modifier or benefit?

Let's just straight up say that it's not possible under the current system.... well.... not without massive significant change.... so let's just say no.
It's not even possible using MW5 and it is because of distances and travel times dictated by the map.

It will work as a single player game because those distances and the time to travel can be accelerated but that travel is still depicted as taking days or weeks. It's not the jump between stars, though having to jump multiple times to get to a location and wait for the recharge of the jumpship is an issue, but the travel time it takes back and forth from the jumpship to the planets kills it for a player vs player/MMO style of game.

All MMOs have some form of fast travel to get from their home to a location so while a player could take the slow way to a location and it might take hours or days in realtime, there is always some option to get there in seconds to get into the action quickly.
Currently in MWO we do not use distances at all. We don't even acknowledge that there is any travel.
If we did, we would only need to represent it cinematically either using the jumpships to get to the designated star system and then warp the dropships to the planet, or jump straight to the planet and just use the dropships to... um ... drop.

That depth and additional strategy would still be missing though and for MWO, particularly in it's current state, we would need to be a little more abstract in how to represent what is essentially a logistics feature.
This is where I believe values such as the minimum and maximum tonnage on the drop decks are not being utlizied enough, or even allocating drop decks to particular planets so if you have a fight there, you use that drop deck.
Bases and that sort of thing could be something that then adds supply chain modifiers or benefits that once again could have an impact on the drop decks.
Just something that adds a little bit of a strategic element at the map and faction level.


there is no way mwo will ever be an mmo. they thought they could stick a layer of ui on top of an arena shooter and make an mmo out of it but that doesnt work. they simply never took the concept beyond the minimally viable.

#17 Sjorpha

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Posted 12 September 2019 - 02:19 AM

It's so sad that this kind of thread no longer has any hope of making a difference, but I like the ideas.

I made my attempt to impact FW development back in phase 2: https://mwomercs.com...ame-suggestion/

My approach was mostly about the implementation of a simple strategic layer and win conditions for wars, it led to a very nice discussion thread imo. This was back when you still fought for each faction separately and could choose where to attack and defend.

#18 50 50

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 02:23 AM

View PostLordNothing, on 11 September 2019 - 08:49 PM, said:


there is no way mwo will ever be an mmo. they thought they could stick a layer of ui on top of an arena shooter and make an mmo out of it but that doesnt work. they simply never took the concept beyond the minimally viable.


No. It won't. But it is those ideas of having a persistent yet evolving universe where we can do things like have a base, have a drop ship, participate in various battles, move about the universe, be part of the rise and fall of factions and so on .... all the sort of ideas we have collectively discussed over the years that are essentially MMO concepts.

Because of the structure of the game being based on what quick play is, the changes where the depth was needed had to be 'outside' of the matches but sadly didn't get much further than the UI.
Having more unit management features.
Putting more into the contract system.
Building more into the factions.
Adding some new features that built more immersion and depth that worked before and after the actual combats.

View PostSjorpha, on 12 September 2019 - 02:19 AM, said:

It's so sad that this kind of thread no longer has any hope of making a difference, but I like the ideas.

I made my attempt to impact FW development back in phase 2: https://mwomercs.com...ame-suggestion/

My approach was mostly about the implementation of a simple strategic layer and win conditions for wars, it led to a very nice discussion thread imo. This was back when you still fought for each faction separately and could choose where to attack and defend.


I agree and we keep doing so because we can see the potential and imagine a grander scheme of things.

Sadly I think when we were all asking for changes what happened is we gradually had various options removed instead of trying to integrate them within what was initially created.
Look at the existing event system and imagine what that might have been like had these mini story arcs occurred on various planets around the universe. If you happened to be in the area you would hear about it and had the option to take part if you wanted to.
The outcome of the event then doing something on the map.

When we were having trouble trying to get matches because there were not enough players on either side to start, the scope of what we could do was reduced in an attempt to try and focus the population. The whole 'bucket' reduction scheme.

Personally I think we should have gone the other direction.
Had the system been changed to allow smaller matches and looked at different scales of conflict, we could have had little border skirmishes and raids all over the universe that could have scaled up to full blown invasions had more players joined in.
Had the system allowed players to start their own game without an opponent and do something like raid a facility, attack an installation and so on, we could have created our own little stories around the place that opponents could have then responded to (like a call to arms).

I've tried a few times to get the thought process running along these lines, see here if you're curious.

#19 LordNothing

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 07:36 AM

quick play is actually the thing that ruined the game. it should have been obsoleted a long time ago. but people wanted their easy mode when they found fp unpalatable for casual play. there was no way in hell the plan for fp would have worked without 100% of the population. pgi needed to find a way to integrate pugs and casuals into fp so they could put their alpha mode to rest. but that didn't happen, players settled into their own isolated camps until you couldn't take away one or the other or merge them without killing the game. of course doing nothing really worked wonders, at killing the game.

Edited by LordNothing, 13 September 2019 - 07:41 AM.


#20 Davegt27

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Posted 13 September 2019 - 10:15 AM

wow tough crowd





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