113 replies to this topic

[Tamerlin]

All beta owners check your spam email folders. Yesterday PGI sent an email with beta details, and everyone I know had the email stored in their spam folders.

[Nesutizale]

I received it normaly.
I wonder if we can post the content, except links here in the forums cause....is there anything worth hiding?

[Rinkata Prime]

Hm... I just realized.
- Random generated maps.
- Weapon variants * Weapon tiers
- Loot drop Salvage
- Conflicts with penalties/bonuses
- Coop

Mechdiablo? Mechwarframe? Mechdestiny? Mechborderlands?

Edited by Rinkata Prime, 22 November 2019 - 10:20 AM.

[Nesutizale]

Except for generated maps and coop...this is all pretty much an old concept dating back to the first Merc game around 1996?
I think there was even an older game where you played mercs but I only started with MW2.

[Quantonianism]

This is literally my first post b/c I don't ever post to anything, but this mistake just pushed that button for me.
Please check your images before you post them! I mean, I know you're probably all busy with the release, but still... this is a very easy thing to notice! Walkthough? It is the last word in the image, but that is the last thing I read so it is the freshest in my mind.

Can someone tell me how to post an image here as well? Thanks

Edited by Quantonianism, 22 November 2019 - 11:23 AM.

[Tamerlin]

Quantonianism, on 22 November 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:

Can someone tell me how to post an image here as well? Thanks

You need to upload the image somewhere else (like Imgur) and use the "Image" button to link to the image.

... and I didn't even notice the misspelling till you called it out. Whoops.

Edited by Tamerlin, 22 November 2019 - 01:53 PM.

[Koniving]

Tamerlin, on 21 November 2019 - 11:31 PM, said:

My analysis of the video.

Was watching it. To the question about the pulse-wave, there's a screenshot in which a PPC impact appears to generate a pulse wave.


For comparison, 2013 MWO's PPC impact effect.

[Tamerlin]

Ty, Koniving. But the building wasn't hit by PPCs. The Atlas's ERLL started low, so maybe they hit generators.

[Koniving]

Tamerlin, on 22 November 2019 - 01:58 PM, said:

Ty, Koniving. But the building wasn't hit by PPCs. The Atlas's ERLL started low, so maybe they hit generators.

Given the AI issues in War Stories, it isn't a far fetch to wonder if the building was hit by "friendly fire," though.
That's my thinking.

They had issues where the mechs and tanks would destroy their own bases by stomping through them, helicopters crashing into buildings to evade your missiles, shooting through their structures. They "mostly fixed it" but left a chance they'll do it anyway because they liked it.

So paraphrased, if there's a structure between the AI and you, they left a small chance they'll choose to blast/ram their way through to get to you.

Electrical-related shock waves of structures is also a possibility.



I watched the actual video, you're right he hit it. From the pause view of your own video though t was hard to tell if other elements might've been there, and with shockwave and the effect I was like "didn't I just see a PPC do that yesterday?"

Edited by Koniving, 22 November 2019 - 02:16 PM.

[Tamerlin]

I finished a deep dive of the MW5 MechLab as shown in the recent Walk Through video

Edited by Tamerlin, 22 November 2019 - 11:24 PM.

[Nesutizale]

Nice finding on the details in the mechlab. Didn't notice them so far. Lets hope its just missing or placeholder textfiles that are still in the game and will be changed in the next weeks.

The building rules seams to have been simplyfied so people don't have to worry about slots. Just drop things in.
Also I like the restriction too but I would like that for MWO too. To many to similar builds in MWO.

What makes me worry is the XL part. Not knowing if you blow up because surpise you have an XL engine isn't funny.
My guess would be that they have taken that rule out to streamline the gameplay for non BT fans? Most people don't understand the "why" behind it and even now I bet you can find people here that asked if IS XL should be handled the same as Clan would vote for "Yes".

[Koniving]

I see my research into IS engines and their notable effects in lore (such as energy efficiency which could be channeled into higher alpha/combined fire potential before affecting speed, energy output [there's a trend that Gauss+PPC builds in Battletech canon all use the same brand name engine despite another brand name engine being more common for those sizes)... is all wasted.

Since beyond engine repair/replacement with compatible brands/sizes and utilizing their effects to help make the mechs unique, I didn't have major plans in that regard I'm not about to jerry-rig that into the game. I'll just settle without.

Slots seem to be rigged at sizes, with weapons like Gauss Rifle and AC/20 as "Large" or "Extra large". It isn't far from what I was going to put in anyway. Though I had planned on more sizes.

Either way, another plan I had in regards to size for my mod, such as some brands being 'larger' or 'smaller' than normal will still work. (These weren't intended in terms of slot difference, but when a smaller weapon is placed into a larger slot, the weapon would be more protected. If an oversized weapon is placed into a slot that isn't big enough, the number of slots that didn't fit inside the sized area dedicated to it would consume 'free' slots, and for every free slot, the weapon would be considered partially exposed. This would have been true for anything placed in a free slot, with the intention to have say heatsinks or ammo mounted in a free slot to be strapped to the exterior of the mech to show how jerry-rigged it is... combined with an expanded sub-hitbox system this would allow for targeting and cherry-picking off the external equipment. Such was the plan. Will have to see how much of that needs to change depending on the limitations presented, and what could be done to expand them with the help of a programmer.)

[Koniving]

A bit of a detailed review on a few things, including the starmap.

[Ryoken]

Like the Video very much. Love the correct burst fire implementation of the autocannon 20! Also I really look forward to roam the Inner Sphere Planets for Contracts and Salvage to form my own Merc Unit, hopefully with some pals for even more fun in Coop.

And no more frankenbuilds like Warhammers without their iconic PPC arms but AC20s magically crammed into machine gun slots in clownish paint jobs and ridiculous warhorns. I think this will be a lot more immersive and feel more like Battletech and Mechwarrior.

Thanx PGI!

Edited by Ryoken, 24 November 2019 - 05:47 AM.

[Koniving]

From 24 November 2019 - 05:45 AM:

Like the Video very much. Love the correct burst fire implementation of the autocannon 20! Also I really look forward to roam the Inner Sphere Planets for Contracts and Salvage to form my own Merc Unit, hopefully with some pals for even more fun in Coop.

And no more frankenbuilds like Warhammers without their iconic PPC arms but AC20s magically crammed into machine gun slots in clownish paint jobs and ridiculous warhorns. I think this will be a lot more immersive and feel more like Battletech and Mechwarrior.

Thanx PGI!

Just be aware there's single shot, burst, and automatic ACs (in MW5).

The burst fire AC/20 pumps out 42 damage per volley.
It's the "RNG Ranger" (made up name)
(With double armor that makes it an actual AC/20... But considering the other weapons it's probably insanely overpowered.)
___________________________

Of interesting note, I noticed each weapon, despite the default names being Level 5 burst fire autocannon... actually do have manufacturer names (even if they're clearly not lore accurate to the effects).
So they did slap in "manufacturer names."

The AC/10 is the Defiance Mech Killer Type T.
Single shot, does 12 damage.
(That's a Mech Heavy Rifle's 6 damage when you consider double armor.)

To be fair, the Defiance MK Type T is one of the few exceptions to the AC/10 in 80mm to 120mm norm (it's 150mm, which when going by the Crusher AC/20, makes it a 5 shot per rating weapon in BT, as the Crusher SuperHeavy Autocannon is a 150mm AC/20 that specifically fires a 10 shot burst per trigger salvo / trigger-pull, and 120mm AC/5s pump 3 shells at a "painstakingly slow" rate of "3-4 shells per second", though with a 3 shell magazine basically it'd deplete the magazine [called a cassette] in at the fastest 0.75 seconds.)

AC/5 burst fire, 6 damage per volley??, "Zeusbolt"
Seems pretty bad, but it's a "tier 1."
(Zeusbolt is actually an AC/2 brand name, so being considered a weak AC/5 kinda makes sense? Meh... It's low tier and supposed to be weak, but.. Sigh. Good news is I won't have to add in lines to get in the brand names).

But following that up, they have brand names as manufacturer names.
Defiance is the manufacturer, Mech Killer Type T is the brand/specific name.
Like Whirlwind/5 is just the brand/weapon name, but the manufacturer is General Motors.
Crusher Super Heavy Cannon is the name of the weapon produced by Quikscell Company. It's noteworthy that for the MW5 timeline, the weapon is literally the only true quality product they have, though half the time it still isn't fully assembled when you buy it new and often lacks the instruction manual.
Zeusbolt is manufactured by the Canopus Industries Alpha.

I'm not gonna go beyond that between the primary manufacturer and licensed manufacturer (which sometimes makes tweaks to models).

The Large Lasers are ChrisComp43 (large) and Sunbeam (ER Large) respectively. The ER Large appears to do more damage (9.2) while the other does less.
(That barely makes them medium lasers considering the double armor.)

(Okay done tacking stuff in. Sorry for all the edits.)
(Had to tack in one more...)

Edited by Koniving, 24 November 2019 - 01:10 PM.

[Tamerlin]

I know it's a lore manufacturer. But I promise you that "Kali Yama Deathbloom" will be the name of my next fantasy MMO character.

[Koniving]

Stock LRM for an Orion-K. Minus the Artemis.

[Nesutizale]

How much time did you put into collecting all the names and sort them all out?
I mean its impressive but will it make a differance to the average player? What surely will make a differance is if you make a mod that changes, for example, all ACs to the lore way of fire. Could be that some then would suddenly be burst instead of single shot but I doubt a lot of people will notice any name changes.

That dosn't mean you should throw away all the work you have done by no means. Feel free to mod the game so all the names are right. Just wanted to point out that you might have put in a bit to much effort at this point?
Don't know...just my feeling that a lot of people wont appriciated it as much as it should be.

[Koniving]

Nesutizale, on 24 November 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

How much time did you put into collecting all the names and sort them all out?
I mean its impressive but will it make a differance to the average player? What surely will make a differance is if you make a mod that changes, for example, all ACs to the lore way of fire. Could be that some then would suddenly be burst instead of single shot but I doubt a lot of people will notice any name changes.

That dosn't mean you should throw away all the work you have done by no means. Feel free to mod the game so all the names are right. Just wanted to point out that you might have put in a bit to much effort at this point?
Don't know...just my feeling that a lot of people wont appriciated it as much as it should be.

A fair bit. But it wasn't about the lore of the names so much of the company and the weapon.
Anyone can make them giant machine guns and be done.

But a battletech simulator to be as close as possible would need more.
For example, some acs fire flak rounds and nothing else.
Some fire heap (high explosive armor piercing), some fire depleted uranium slugs.
Some are gravity fed (think about that for a minute when you are on a moon).
Some are magnetically fed. Some have reinforced barrels, some have barrels that melt.
Some canonically shoot faster, some have rotating barrels in an armored shell.

The reason the manufacturers are important is they tend to have traits.
Imperator and mydron have something that makes them stand apart despite on the surface being completely interchangeable:. Imperator believes in bigger bullets as evidenced by the higher than normal caliber assault rifle they marketed as a close range SMG.

(Edit: Now that I'm not just taking a break at work I can bring in links/pics. Anyway seriously, they marketed THIS as an SMG despite that it clearly is not. It's even got an underslung grenade launcher but this is an "SMG"....)
https://www.sarna.ne..._Submachine_Gun
Sure, it gives it superior range and firepower, but it's an assault rifle marketed as an SMG.
Meanwhile, Mydron is more grounded in reality and practicality. Their autocannons are much more reasonable, use a more common caliber, and are usually full automatics as opposed to Imperator Automatic Weaponry's ACs which are more often than not burst-fire-oriented.

So right there, despite the two basically being interchangeable on the surface level with both marketing almost exclusively ballistic weapons, both having "quality" and "reliability" to their names, there's a huge difference hiding just under the surface that changes the difference between them from that of an M16 versus an M4 to the difference of an M4 (Mydron) versus a G3 (Imperator).

Going into lasers:
Diverse optics tend to be less affected by weather (especially high particle conditions), intek is more energy efficient and their large laser while requiring more shots to get the same damage has an effective range that rivals er large lasers. (By an obvious factor Er Large lasers are still superior by requiring significantly fewer shots). (Fun fact: Diverse Optics in real life was founded in 1987, the same year it appeared in Battletech.)
Bulldog brand is a pretty low-average large laser with nothing special going for it beyond it's shifting colors due to the lasing medium it uses. (This laser can appear as white, as well as any of seven other colors just like the real life lasing medium; however contrary to the lore on the Bulldog tank where it was the most efficient choice that Bulldog could find.... in real life it is a terribly energy-inefficient method that's known to produce a great deal of resistance heat, as such it makes for a great lower-end cheap large laser.)
Another brand (starts with a K but it illudes me at the moment am on break with my phone) (Edit: Krieger. The brand name is Krieger) with a real life counterpart (called Krieger Barrels founded 1994, many real life counterparts exist actually) is known for its long be high quality barrels, and as such in every appearance their lasers even the small lasers have a protruding barrel, with medium laser barrels 3/4ths as long as a 6 foot man. Every appearance in BT art has it for that brand.

As an example, the Puma's 2 protruding barrels are medium lasers in the primary variant.
(Of course, to be fair there are only three things using Krieger Medium Lasers.)

Cyclops eye is a PPC Laser. Think about that for a second. It is a PPC..laser..hybrid just hiding among large lasers. This is default to the earliest Wolfhounds, as well as on two different vehicles. This large laser has recoil and a physical punch worth about half of its damage and is only 50% as affected by environmental conditions that would weaken other lasers. The downside is this weapon has minimal to no effect beyond its stated range unlike most lasers.

Magna is a brand noteworthy for having a wider than normal beam (normal beams having 6-8cm of diameter in a circular shape and Martell having a 12cm horizontally-wide elipse-shape beam), with a bit of extra umph to ensure that damage potential is not lost. This is handy when dealing with numerous smaller targets in a formation or with things that are harder to hit. And against larger things, this means you could potentially get superior damage if you can focus the beam sufficiently. (One of the few things detailing this trend that doesn't require me getting out the PDFs and taking screenshots.)

A specific brand of PPC actually fires a solid projectile upon which all MW PPCs from MW2 onward are based, releasing a ball of blue fire. All others fire what appears to be (but is not) lightning.
Gauss rifles are not created equal.
Many missile launcher brands tend to have interesting quirks. For example, many are fire and forget.

MWO's hold target until hitting it is actually lore accurate, for Artemis only...and that is the reason Guardian ECM affects Artemis missiles but not streaks or regular missiles. Where other missiles are self-contained (Semi-Guided LRMs [Not yet in-universe for Mw5] and Homing LRMs/SRMs [available as soon as NARCs are] notwithstanding), Artemis LRMs and SRMs are guided by the launcher using a lasing target finder on both the target and to locate its own missiles. Using this information it remote-controls the missiles automatically in order to guide them to their target. ECM interferes with the lasing target finders and communication between the launcher and its missiles which is why they are affected. (ECM can literally be anywhere within 180 meters of either the launcher, the target, or the missiles, and they would be disrupted. Once disrupted, Artemis LRMs/SRMs become standard missiles with their normal guidance package.

And then there's Listen-Kill LRMs...

People will notice these things primarily because there will be a great variety in the resulting weapons. After all, imagine what you could do in mwo, if your ac/20 could be used as a howitzer to fire over obstacles? There are two AC/20s that canonically can do this, one is mounted on a truck chassis specifically stated to be designed as Field Artillery and its limited range is the range needed to directly hit someone in one body section (hitbox) when considering it does a 10 shot burst on trigger pull intended to scatter the shells over a wide area at longer ranges. The other, I kid you not, is a charge-up weapon (to fill the liquid propellant in order to get more range).
What if there were over 80 weapons in just the basic initial mwo roll out of ac 2-20, small to large laser (not even counting the we Large) and srms/lrms without artemis, each reasonably unique in some way? (Edit, 109 not including pulse lasers, Artemis variants, or things I plan on adding like Mech Mortars, Arrow IV, etc. And that's exclusively IS weaponry.)

That's why the info and research are important. If PGI would open a few source books as opposed to just look something up on sarna.net, MWO would've been much better. Imagine what Solaris VII could've been, if PGI had modes like King of the Hill, or if you take a look at Steiner Coliseum's lore then you'd know just how bad PGI screwed up what would have been an incredibly awesome level that would initially look like empty sand with lots of spectators until **** gets real as the environment dynamically changes around you with destructible walls and platforms raising and lowering.
Instead, we got a 3 minute wait followed by a 45 second thrill that doesn't even give spectators long enough to log into before someone's dead.

Edited by Koniving, 25 November 2019 - 11:42 AM.

[Koniving]

It is true that there will be those that won't appreciate it. I know that simulators aren't for everyone. But that's the beauty of a mod. It isn't forced on everyone. It just makes changes or corrections to things. Like realistically ugly people in Skyrim, or that unique sword made thousands of years ago that looks like every other sword and does literally the same thing but weaker.

Besides, the mod is being made for me. I'm just gonna release it after I'm reasonably happy with it for those that wanted as true an experience as possible without having to have the money to develop one from the ground up myself.

Edited by Koniving, 24 November 2019 - 03:37 PM.