51 replies to this topic

[RestosIII]

I haven't been around for a long time, but, I thought it would be worth it to leave my 2 cents since I've only really seen doom and gloom when looking around here. And I'll preface all of this with the fact that, to be honest... I was worried. Not trying to insult PGI here, I just know how important MW5's success is to the series.

But, so far, from everything I've seen and done in the beta, I truly think we have a good Mechwarrior title on our hands here. Best looking the series has ever been, it runs buttery smooth (for me, at least, and the sound design is easily the best work PGI has done. (AC/20-BF's and MPLas specifically just warm my heart.)

The AI isn't exactly playing 4D chess, but, it's good enough that my immersion isn't broken, the AI uses different weight classes properly, and I genuinely have difficulty unless I do the normal Mechwarrior ace min maxxing everyone eventually gets to. Even then, I'm occasionally ending missions as a toothpick.

As long as the game keeps this level of quality for the full release... I really will be happy with it. It's worthy of being in the series. And I really hope I can use it to get some new blood into the series.

Good job PGI, you've cracked my anti-hype wall and am excited over Mechwarrior again.

[Moochachoo]

I will certainly look forward to playing it next year.

[Appogee]

RestosIII, on 27 November 2019 - 12:35 AM, said:

I genuinely have difficulty unless I do the normal Mechwarrior ace min maxxing everyone eventually gets to. Even then, I'm occasionally ending missions as a toothpick.

Wut....?!

The AI is braindead. Even being constantly swarmed by a large number of witless helos, VTOLs and tanks - most of which you can take out in one shot - doesn't make the game at all difficult.

I'm not trying to naysay the whole game. There are aspects of the game that are good - the graphics, the destructible terrain, and the sized hardpoint system. It also feels a lot more like piloting a Big Stompy Robot than MWO has ever done, providing a better sense of mass, momentum and scale.

So overall, it's as if the traditional Mechwarrior series old were updated into the current millennium. But unless the campaign storyline is engrossing, and the enemy AI is significantly improved, that's all it will be.

Edited by Appogee, 27 November 2019 - 02:07 AM.

[Brizna]

I am very glad to hear this. I hope it is as good as you say and hopefully that means MWO averts its doomsday.

As for MW5 I will play it next year.

[Ilfi]

Appogee, on 27 November 2019 - 01:02 AM, said:

The AI is braindead. Even being constantly swarmed by a large number of witless helos, VTOLs and tanks - most of which you can take out in one shot - doesn't make the game at all difficult.

They really need to tune up the AI and make Extreme AI actually extreme if they want this game to have any amount of longevity. The idea that the community should be responsible for something as integral as enemy AI is inexcusable.

[N a p e s]

Ilfi, on 27 November 2019 - 06:08 AM, said:

They really need to tune up the AI and make Extreme AI actually extreme if they want this game to have any amount of longevity. The idea that the community should be responsible for something as integral as enemy AI is inexcusable.

Isn't that part of those "low hanging fruit" items that Russ had discussed leaving to the modders?

[Novakaine]

The AI in MW5 is just fine.
It's smarter than most pug matches of late.
I like it.

[RickySpanish]

Novakaine, on 27 November 2019 - 07:49 AM, said:

The AI in MW5 is just fine.
It's smarter than most pug matches of late.
I like it.

Yup I jumped into some games last night and the level of skill on display was just something else. I saw a (what I thought to be) guaranteed win after I smashed a gaping hole through the enemy line in my Gargles plus three kills on the way through turn in to a loss on Therma as our assaults fell into a ditch. I now run my Pakhet streak boat because all people do is hump cover without moving, or run in a straight line. There's nothing like a pop-tart streak boat to ruin everyone's hill humping day, and to meet an ill planned charge head on.

Edited by RickySpanish, 27 November 2019 - 08:00 AM.

[Vorpal Puppy]

The AI is very poor. If you build your mech properly, you can face tank your way through every mission in an assault. The burst AC2s are crazy good. The biggest challenge will be how light of a lance you can drop and still win.

[RestosIII]

Vorpal Puppy, on 27 November 2019 - 08:00 AM, said:

...If you build your mech properly, you can face tank your way through every mission in an assault.

...The biggest challenge will be how light of a lance you can drop and still win.

That's every SP Mechwarrior game.

[justcallme A S H]

Vorpal Puppy, on 27 November 2019 - 08:00 AM, said:

The AI is very poor. If you build your mech properly, you can face tank your way through every mission in an assault. The burst AC2s are crazy good. The biggest challenge will be how light of a lance you can drop and still win.

Well you can drop without any lancemates in a 'recommended' 400T mission - and still WIN with a single mech.

You could probably do it solo in a Heavy if you were really careful.

[Mystere]

N a p e s, on 27 November 2019 - 07:16 AM, said:

Isn't that part of those "low hanging fruit" items that Russ had discussed leaving to the modders?

Will the be an API for the AI?

Novakaine, on 27 November 2019 - 07:49 AM, said:

The AI in MW5 is just fine.
It's smarter than most pug matches of late.
I like it.

That's not saying much at all.

Edited by Mystere, 27 November 2019 - 03:34 PM.

[Novakaine]

Sadly - pugs.

[DaZur]

What I find humorous is if the AI was better half the folks would be complaining because the AI was wrecking them.

Like every AI code there is a algorithm that goes from potato to pain-god... The trick is to find that happy medium so it'll be believable but not unbelievable.

I have (even in my somewhat new PGI pessimism mood) little doubt this will be sussed out before final release.

[Ilfi]

N a p e s, on 27 November 2019 - 07:16 AM, said:

Isn't that part of those "low hanging fruit" items that Russ had discussed leaving to the modders?

I would like to know what fantasy world you live in where fundamental game design is low hanging fruit. It's not like you just pop in a new value and call it a day. Hell, modders will have an easier time adding in new maps, Mechs, weapons and balance passes than the AI.

Is it really so unreasonable to expect the hardest difficulty to be difficult?

[N a p e s]

Ilfi, on 27 November 2019 - 03:55 PM, said:

I would like to know what fantasy world you live in where fundamental game design is low hanging fruit. It's not like you just pop in a new value and call it a day. Hell, modders will have an easier time adding in new maps, Mechs, weapons and balance passes than the AI.

Is it really so unreasonable to expect the hardest difficulty to be difficult?

It was a sarcastic joke aimed at PGI's reliance on the modding community to fix their game.

I thought it was obvious enough given how big of a "low hanging fruit" this represents.

[Ilfi]

N a p e s, on 27 November 2019 - 04:08 PM, said:

It was a sarcastic joke aimed at PGI's reliance on the modding community to fix their game.

OK. But I'm a little upset that PGI is squatting on an IP they are clearly ill-equipped to deliver upon.

P.S., are you familiar with Poe's Law?

[kuma8877]

justcallme A S H, on 27 November 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

Well you can drop without any lancemates in a 'recommended' 400T mission - and still WIN with a single mech.

You could probably do it solo in a Heavy if you were really careful.

To be fair tho, it should be noted that these are "quick action" scenarios where it's possible to take whatever to the fight, with almost no restrictions. The tell and the real tension will be in the main campaign, where you don't have access to everything all the time, and you're building your company up. I think in that sense, it should be good if they can manage a fun range/rate for progression. At the very least, it seems a decent modern platform to build on thru mods. I can't wait to see what PGI has managed to do, and then where the community will take that baseline.

[Appogee]

DaZur, on 27 November 2019 - 03:50 PM, said:

What I find humorous is if the AI was better half the folks would be complaining because the AI was wrecking them.

Yeah, but not the half who are competent mechwarriors.

kuma8877, on 27 November 2019 - 06:20 PM, said:

To be fair tho, it should be noted that these are "quick action" scenarios where it's possible to take whatever to the fight, with almost no restrictions. The tell and the real tension will be in the main campaign, where you don't have access to everything all the time, and you're building your company up.

Fair point.

[justcallme A S H]

kuma8877, on 27 November 2019 - 06:20 PM, said:

To be fair tho, it should be noted that these are "quick action" scenarios where it's possible to take whatever to the fight, with almost no restrictions. The tell and the real tension will be in the main campaign, where you don't have access to everything all the time, and you're building your company up. I think in that sense, it should be good if they can manage a fun range/rate for progression. At the very least, it seems a decent modern platform to build on thru mods. I can't wait to see what PGI has managed to do, and then where the community will take that baseline.

30+ enemy mechs is 30+ enemy mechs...

ESP with a mech paperdoll that is largely fresh.