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Piranha Games Refuses To Give Me A Refund.


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#121 Guy Humual

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 10:08 AM

View PostUnleashed3k, on 20 December 2019 - 09:18 AM, said:


"Epic butthurt much"

So we all can see now, that you are just a little crying baby.

Good job showing the world how damn narrow minded you are. Posted Image

I bet you got Origin, Uplay and other stuff as well and I bet you don't even know that Epic is a company from murrica Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Well played, no(w) stop crying Posted Image

Huh? Why would I care where Epic is from? I don't want to use them. What part of that doesn't compute with you?

#122 Guy Humual

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 10:42 AM

View Postoverheal, on 20 December 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

Oh Guy Guy Guy...

You pre-ordered a product, that was packaged with additional pre-order bonus content, which you consumed. You activated the pre-order bonuses,
The distribution of the game wasn't altered when I redeemed the preorder bonuses. They were still saying it would be released on steam and I was fine with that. If the game had been a stand alone, something I could have downloaded directly from PGI there wouldn't have been a problem. They changed the game after I collected the bonuses and as I can't see into the future that shouldn't count against me.

View Postoverheal, on 20 December 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

Whether you took the time or not to skill up your pre-order Mechs is irrelevant: you consumed them. And the MC and any other perks being incentive at the time
It is irrelevant, but not in the way you're suggesting. I don't care about the bonuses, they could remove them for all I care. They could delete my MWO account for all I care. They're making me use Epic Games, I don't want to use Epic Games, I just want my money back.

View Postoverheal, on 20 December 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

Your car analogy is bunk. When you buy a product and it comes with a promotional offer of value (e.g. a $50 Gift Card at Best Buy), if you go and seek a refund the cost of the Gift Card will be deducted from your refund. Anywhere you go like Gamestop, etc. that sells you licensed software with Redeemable Codes will let you know that purchase is *not* refundable, once the product is opened and/or the codes are viewed and/or redeemed.
So there's two things there, one is the promotional material, which as I've repeatedly pointed out was claimed before the changes were made to the product I purchased, those items have next to no value. They are digital assets, they cost almost nothing to produce and cannot be resold. I didn't buy them they were given as bonuses because I bought the game. The second point you're conflating is the actual product itself, it hasn't been opened. I didn't join the open beta testing and I didn't activate my key. That product is unopened. In the car analogy I haven't picked it up off the lot yet.

View Postoverheal, on 20 December 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

PGI gave users a grace window where they could seek a full refund and keep the redeemed content. That is beyond what any consumer rules require them to do. Now, you could perhaps go talk to PGI and offer to have the content removed from your account,or to pay the cash equivalent value of the redeemed content (which is tbf, on par or exceeds the cost of your pre-order) but MWO isn't set up to yank content from player accounts, surely.
Which, as I've pointed out, I wasn't informed about. I missed the one email that would have informed me. It just never got delivered to me. Someone earlier in the thread pointed out that Yahoo sometimes deletes emails, which to be fair isn't PGI's fault, but they should have sent multiple emails on the subject rather than just one. As to if PGI could delete content from my MWO is irreverent, as I've said they could delete the entire account and my 131 mechs for all I care at this point. They are literally of no value to me, I can't sell them for real money, I can't trade them, they exist solely on PGI's servers. If I'd gotten a physical object, a cash card as you've said, that's an actual bonus of worth. I didn't thought. There is no actual value to the items I got from PGI save for the value PGI puts on them. If I'd bought a tire from Canadian tire and I wanted a refund if they refused I'd still own a tire that I could resell. I bought the game, the game was offered from a distributor from the one I was expecting to use, I should be able to get a refund.

View Postoverheal, on 20 December 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

It's a bit like me griping that I played MWO Beta for a little bit and then didn't play it for a few years so it's PGI's fault that I didn't get any bonuses or in-game titles etc associated with supporting the Beta.
I'm not sure what your point is? That again is completely digital rewards, it costs them virtually nothing to grant it, nothing to revoke it. It's not something you paid money for. But supposing you'd preordered MW5, tried the beta and found the game didn't work. It just constantly crashed, it glitched out, because the window for refunds ended weeks before the launch of the beta you wouldn't be able to get your money back.

View Postoverheal, on 20 December 2019 - 09:45 AM, said:

If you really haven't redeemed your Game, then you could re-sell or re-gift your link/code for redeeming it. If you have gone on to install the game and enjoy it some - well, that's the end of the chapter, isn't it.
except that re-selling it would likely be against terms of service and anyone I sold it to might have their game revoked by PGI. I'm not going to play it at this point. It's going to remain a digital key for all eternity and should it ever come to steam I won't be buying it, even if it goes on sale for a dollar. I'm pretty sure PGI has gotten money from me since I preordered the game, I think I probably played MWO till March, and I was always picking up mechs and MC, but as they're not going to refund my MW5 they've lost me as a customer and a fan.

#123 Unleashed3k

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 10:45 AM

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 20 December 2019 - 05:25 PM.
unconstructive, replies removed


#124 martian

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 10:57 AM

View PostGuy Humual, on 20 December 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:

Which, as I've pointed out, I wasn't informed about.


Have you asked for refund the legal way, as I advised here?
https://mwomercs.com...25#entry6310025

#125 Guy Humual

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 11:20 AM

View Postmartian, on 20 December 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:


This is what you should do if you are from Canada:

1) Go to this page:
https://www.consumer...nline-purchase/
Consumer Protection - British Columbia, Canada

2) Click on the "I tried to cancel but didn't get my refund" line

3) Read the instructions

4) Download and print the PDF

5) Send the form as advised. Use registered mail.

6) Wait for the reply.


This is what you should do if you are from the U.S.A.:

1) Go to this page:
https://www.econsume...en/Details#crnt
(it is a sub-page of the Federal Trade Commission here https://www.ftc.gov/...r-complaint-ftc

2) File the complaint step-by-step.



I can not tell you if you will succeed or not. Probably not, since the change of the distributor is not a change of the product (MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries game) itself.

But in my opinion this is going to be much more useful than posting walls of text on internet forum.

I really appreciate you looking this up Martin, especially for anyone else in the same boat as I am, and although I already went through this process with the Consume Protection branch from my Provence before posting here, knowing that someone in the MWO community is willing to help is a very encouraging thing. The key issue is that although the Internet Sales Contract Regulations, made under the Consumer Protection Act state that an
online consumer must be provided with the following before a purchase is completed:
3 (d) a fair and accurate description of the goods or services being sold to the consumer, including any
relevant technical or system specifications;
(j) the date when the goods are to be delivered or the services are to begin;
(k) the supplier’s delivery arrangements, including the identity of the shipper, the mode of
transportation and the place of delivery;
(l) the supplier’s cancellation, return, exchange and refund policies, if any; and
(m) any other restrictions, limitations or conditions of purchase that may apply.
If the above conditions are not met, the Regulations permit a consumer to request that their credit card issuer
reverse the charges.

And while PGI didn't meet this criteria, the act doesn't apply to “goods and services that are immediately downloaded or
accessed using the internet.” In such instances the Consumer Protection Act alone is the guiding legislation, and
the Act does not regulate cancellation, refund or return policies for retail purchases.

Basically the law hasn't caught up with the technology.

I could try a chargeback and see what the credit card thinks, I could contact my lawyer if I was really petty, but with the later cost of getting my $70 would likely cost more than the $70. So I came here, as the MW5 site doesn't have a forums, and shared my complaints with the community.

Edited by Guy Humual, 20 December 2019 - 11:40 AM.


#126 martian

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 11:29 AM

View PostGuy Humual, on 20 December 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:

...
I could try a chargeback and see what the credit card thinks, I could contact my lawyer if I was really petty, but with the later cost of getting my $70 would likely cost more than I would get back. So I came here, as the MW5 site doesn't have a forums, and shared my complaints with the community.

You are right with the lawyer, but going through the credit card company or through your bank should be free of charge, no? You fill the complaint and the company/bank will either accept or refuse that complaint.

#127 Guy Humual

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 01:29 PM

View Postmartian, on 20 December 2019 - 11:29 AM, said:

You are right with the lawyer, but going through the credit card company or through your bank should be free of charge, no? You fill the complaint and the company/bank will either accept or refuse that complaint.

I'll give Piranha one last chance then I'll see what my bank says on Monday.

#128 Dee Eight

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 02:11 PM

View PostGuy Humual, on 20 December 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:

It is irrelevant, but not in the way you're suggesting. I don't care about the bonuses, they could remove them for all I care. They could delete my MWO account for all I care. They're making me use Epic Games, I don't want to use Epic Games, I just want my money back.


You need epic games to DOWNLOAD and install the game. You don't need it to play the game at all. Delete epic off your system after you install MW5 and all the other downloadable content and it will run fine. Of course you will be cutting yourself off from any future patches & hot fixes but that's on you.



Quote

They are digital assets, they cost almost nothing to produce and cannot be resold. I didn't buy them they were given as bonuses because I bought the game.


Clearly you are someone without a clue as to how much time and money is involved in paying digital artists and programmers to make unique versions of those mechs to have offered them as bonus content.

#129 ingramli

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 05:41 PM

View PostGuy Humual, on 20 December 2019 - 01:29 PM, said:

I'll give Piranha one last chance then I'll see what my bank says on Monday.


I hate to say that, but most people in this sub-forum are those who made a pre-order, and chose to stick with the pre-order even the platform changed to Epic Games, which we call fanboy (aka PGI loyalist), and you can see they are trying hard to defend PGI's arrangement for the limited refund windows.

Sadly, your voice is unlikely to go to the general public of gamer by posting here, I believe posting your experience in PGI's twitter and general forums (such as reddit) will see more people reading.

Edited by ingramli, 20 December 2019 - 06:18 PM.


#130 Guy Humual

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 06:59 PM

View Postingramli, on 20 December 2019 - 05:41 PM, said:

I hate to say that, but most people in this sub-forum are those who made a pre-order, and chose to stick with the pre-order even the platform changed to Epic Games, which we call fanboy (aka PGI loyalist), and you can see they are trying hard to defend PGI's arrangement for the limited refund windows.

Sadly, your voice is unlikely to go to the general public of gamer by posting here, I believe posting your experience in PGI's twitter and general forums (such as reddit) which see more people reading.

Well if people are fine with the switch to Epic Games I got no problem with that. Heck Epic Games might be the best gaming store on the web for all I know. I don't like their business practices, I don't trust them with my information, and I don't want to even download their software on my computer. I don't want them out of business, I just don't want to do business with them myself. Also, worth pointing out, I don't hate companies that decide to do business with them, I won't be buying their products from Epic Games obviously, but when their games come to a platform I like I won't hold any Epic Games exclusives against them.

All I can do is explain my problem and why I feel wronged by not getting a refund. I'm not asking for people to by sympathetic or for everyone to agree with me. For the most part I think people have been respectful and I appreciate that even if you don't agree with me.

#131 Guy Humual

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 07:20 PM

View PostDee Eight, on 20 December 2019 - 02:11 PM, said:

Clearly you are someone without a clue as to how much time and money is involved in paying digital artists and programmers to make unique versions of those mechs to have offered them as bonus content.

yeah, they probably cost upwards of the cost of the 1 to 3 hours of work to digitally repaint an already existing asset, but that's not what I was talking about, I was saying that the value of the items is non existent outside of the game, which is kind of the problem with digital assets. I don't own any of the Mechs I've paid money for, they belong to PGI, and when MWO shuts down I lose every dollar I ever spent on the game as those items don't actually exist outside of the game. A game company can say those items are worth whatever they want, but their value doesn't exist outside of what they can get for them. In this case those items were given away for free.

#132 Dee Eight

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Posted 20 December 2019 - 11:18 PM

View PostGuy Humual, on 20 December 2019 - 06:59 PM, said:

Well if people are fine with the switch to Epic Games I got no problem with that. Heck Epic Games might be the best gaming store on the web for all I know. I don't like their business practices, I don't trust them with my information, and I don't want to even download their software on my computer.


They don't do anything worse as far as business practices and information than Steam does. In fact because their rates are better for developers, especially ones who use the UNREAL gaming engine, they are even better for developers than Steam.

#133 Guy Humual

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 08:23 AM

View PostDee Eight, on 20 December 2019 - 11:18 PM, said:


They don't do anything worse as far as business practices and information than Steam does. In fact because their rates are better for developers, especially ones who use the UNREAL gaming engine, they are even better for developers than Steam.

Which is fine if you're a developer. It's why I don't fault developers for taking them up on their offers. I however am not a developer, I'm a customer, and exclusives limit my choices. The main reason I like Steam over other sellers like GoG (which I also like) is that they're more than a store, I got all my friends on steam, I can easily join their games, and steam workshops makes modding my games easy. Maybe someday Epic will have the same functionality but back when I first heard about them they didn't even have a shopping cart option so you had to buy every single game separately. If you like Epic that's fine, I don't, and I don't want to use them.

#134 overheal

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 01:07 PM

View PostGuy Humual, on 21 December 2019 - 08:23 AM, said:

Which is fine if you're a developer. It's why I don't fault developers for taking them up on their offers. I however am not a developer, I'm a customer, and exclusives limit my choices. The main reason I like Steam over other sellers like GoG (which I also like) is that they're more than a store, I got all my friends on steam, I can easily join their games, and steam workshops makes modding my games easy. Maybe someday Epic will have the same functionality but back when I first heard about them they didn't even have a shopping cart option so you had to buy every single game separately. If you like Epic that's fine, I don't, and I don't want to use them.


And when steam launched it had none of that: it was a glorified DRM platform for Half Life 2 and other Source Engine titles.

So pretend it’s 2006 again, and instead of Steam, it’s Epic. In 10 years people will be boycotting some other new platform because they’re so ingrained with Epic.

It was the same thing with Origin just a few years back. The community outrage is gone.

#135 Nesutizale

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 01:55 PM

I am much more interested in the future of such platforms like statia or shadowplay and other streaming services.

While the thought of not haveing to buy a PC anymore is intriguing I see a lot more problems then gains with this.
I have been allredy forced to use services where I could previously by my software and be done with it and that allready caused some problems while even more open as you can download it and then cut the connection and work offline whereever needed but streaming...not so much and that can be a real problem.
Sure if in some wonderouse way highspeed connections pop up like mushrooms that is solved but till then....mh no thanks.

Also I wonder how "ownership" is then handled. Do I realy only rent stuff, do I have a bit of ownership or is it still I own what I paid for?
Currently I see it more as a streaming service like netflix, you pay a monthly fee for beeing able to watch what you like / is offered.

Well these questions will be answered and I guess that the next generation will look at you funny if you tell them you owned a computer and they will wonder what that was for when they are used to haveing a screen only.

PS: Wonder how modding will do in that kind of envoirment. Will it die and with it the greate creative ways people had?

Edited by Nesutizale, 21 December 2019 - 01:57 PM.


#136 Guy Humual

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 09:18 PM

View Postoverheal, on 21 December 2019 - 01:07 PM, said:

And when steam launched it had none of that: it was a glorified DRM platform for Half Life 2 and other Source Engine titles.

So pretend it’s 2006 again, and instead of Steam, it’s Epic. In 10 years people will be boycotting some other new platform because they’re so ingrained with Epic.

It was the same thing with Origin just a few years back. The community outrage is gone.

My problem with Epic is their business practices not their functionality, GoG is a very basic seller but I use them quite often, they let me put the games I've bought from them onto steam, and so I get the best of both worlds. If epic had a platform with the same bells and whistles that steam had I still wouldn't shop at a site that limits customer choice. The fact that they are a far worse store just makes that choice easier to make.

#137 Guy Humual

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Posted 21 December 2019 - 09:32 PM

View PostNesutizale, on 21 December 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

I am much more interested in the future of such platforms like statia or shadowplay and other streaming services.

While the thought of not haveing to buy a PC anymore is intriguing I see a lot more problems then gains with this.
I have been allredy forced to use services where I could previously by my software and be done with it and that allready caused some problems while even more open as you can download it and then cut the connection and work offline whereever needed but streaming...not so much and that can be a real problem.
Sure if in some wonderouse way highspeed connections pop up like mushrooms that is solved but till then....mh no thanks.

Also I wonder how "ownership" is then handled. Do I realy only rent stuff, do I have a bit of ownership or is it still I own what I paid for?
Currently I see it more as a streaming service like netflix, you pay a monthly fee for beeing able to watch what you like / is offered.

Well these questions will be answered and I guess that the next generation will look at you funny if you tell them you owned a computer and they will wonder what that was for when they are used to haveing a screen only.

PS: Wonder how modding will do in that kind of envoirment. Will it die and with it the greate creative ways people had?

Like I was saying earlier the law really hasn't caught up with the new digital age. You really have to be wary of anything that's online only as the company running those games could flip a switch at any time and everything you've ever bought or accomplished in that game is gone forever and what's worse, because it's their IP, they often don't even allow people to make clone servers of their abandoned games for the fans and community.

As always a streaming service would likely depend on internet providers and I'm going to guess that for the foreseeable future that's going to be the real sticking point. The technology exists to stream video games but internet service providers want to cap bandwidth and data, and rural areas might never get hooked up to the high speed internet needed to use these services. I'm sure it'll be a thing, especially in the major cities, but I don't think it's gonna be something everyone in North America is going to be able to access anytime soon.





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