313 replies to this topic

[MisterSomaru]

Vxheous, on 28 December 2019 - 11:57 AM, said:

Who is running XL in a Cyclops....people run 2xUAC10 2xUAC5s in Cyclops, or 4xUAC5s. Alternatively, just bring Annihilators with 2xUAC10 2xUAC5 and smash the Blood Asp.

or dual hgauss, or quad lbx10.

[Prototelis]

Or fafnirs, or any other IS mech with buttloads of armor.

Run budget IV4 on Archers with MRMs.

What even is this thread lol?

Less lore, more war.

If hoders would run things other than NSR, PVE, or LRM they might learn the game. You do your players a serious disservice by teaching them this ****.

Edited by Prototelis, 28 December 2019 - 12:12 PM.

[SneekiBreeki]

MFW Hoders keep on being terrible as usual, crying "HURRHURR ClAnS oP pLz NeRf" while me and the other competent players in here just keep on smashing opponents in both Clan and IS mechs.


You guys might want to go play Mech5 if you can't handle actual opponents, Inb4: "Mw5 Ai Op, GaMe ToO hArD".

Edited by SneekiBreeki, 28 December 2019 - 01:52 PM.

[Prototelis]

SRSLY THO

You want to NSR into blood asps, grab a bunch of these things

https://mech.nav-alp...4e9ff704_ARC-2R

Ghost heat on dual MRM 40s is like 1 heat.

Open your doors before engagement, shoot, close doors, wait 2 seconds and repeat.

THIS THING HAS MORE ARMOR THAN A BLOOD ASP. And you get 20% damage reduction on ST with the doors closed.


You can even mix it up, do dual 30s and lasers. Add a RL20 for extra lols.

[sinba1ew]

Vxheous, on 28 December 2019 - 11:51 AM, said:

Again, IS can pretty much keep pace with clan for range. The only thing I find IS lacking is a strong med/heavy dakka mech that doesn't rely on RACs, but the 265ton decks allow for two Cyclops Sleipnir anyways, so it's not a big deal.

i do not agree with this....
Slepnir is unfortunately MC so even tho he has +/-ok mounts he is not gonna be in everyone's dropdeck
Also... how is IS supposed to keep up with clan in range?

Battlemaster gives 10% range quirk but Clans have quirks too for their lasers / energy so lets look at flat values first

Still IS gets ERL's with

• 9 damage
  
• 8.75heat
  
• 675/1350 range
  
• 5tons
  
• 2crit slots

While clan gets ERL's with

• 10.75 damage
  
• 11.8heat
  
• 740/1480 range
  
• 4tons
  
• 1crit slot

It does not seen like IS can compete in any way above 700 meters due to damage falloff
Also clan gets lighter and smaller weapons, and that means that You can stack more heat sinks, so weapons being hotter is not that strong argument here


Above a battlemaster with 6 ERL's was shown on a picture, lets compare than 6 Er larges of IS and Clan (i am aware you can shoot 2, not 3 or you wil get ghost heat, but bare with me)

IS gets ERL's with

• 54 damage
  
• 52.5heat
  
• 675/1350 range
  
• 30tons
  
• 12crit slots

While clan gets ERL's with

• 64.5 damage
  
• 70.8heat
  
• 740/1480 range
  
• 24tons
  
• 6crit slot

SOooo.... Thats when You snipe and messed up as clan and got third sed of ERL's instead of ER-PPC for example (and those deal 5 more damage than our doing same heat.... they really do break the form with higher heat in clan tho keep higher damage).


You are stil not in a bad spot
You get bonus 6 slots and tons, so 6 heat sinks / 3 doubles (cauuse IS double heat sinks are twice the size and same efficiency)
Moreover around 1000 m range You vastly outdamage IS
Above 1200 we only mark You doing about 1 damage per ERL... and above 1350 IS gets shot at for free....

Question is how much damage this suboptimal build could do at that range
Hmm---about 3~2 per ERL...so yes, it is not best... but You keep that advantage of damage that You start acumulating as soon as we are (no quirks counted) 1500m away, and through poke You get 12-18 damage per salvo in ranges avove our range

Than still keep advantage til we get to range of 675 when finally we get to use our lasers in full.... still we got damaged a lot on aproach and often it already is a 9v12 cause the more sturdy mechs we have the slower they are, so we can not counter this by armor or the speed cause we have to sacrifice one for the other.

ahhh last thing... clan stil gets to have backup weapons or heat efficiency cause double heat sinks and get to move faster THX to XD without risk of dying to shoulder kill.

Say what You want, but THIS is not "IS being able to keep up on long range"

Edited by sinba1ew, 28 December 2019 - 12:37 PM.

[Prototelis]

You want to lrm? Thats cool. You need narc.

Run two of these ******** per wave;

https://mech.nav-alp...f13049c5_COM-2D

Narc things, flame the **** out of the PPC or laser mechs in the back. Laugh when they overheat and die while getting lrmed to death.


The Battlemaster and ANH 1p both easily out trade the most common Clan trade mech; the HBR.

They basically get a free targeting computer on top of running a big *** targetting computer.

The ANH1p can alpha 5 er large. THERE IS NO CLAN MECH THAT ALPHAS 5 ER LARGE.

You guys don't lose because of tech base. You lose because your mechs are terrible and your strats are bad.

Edited by Prototelis, 28 December 2019 - 12:43 PM.

[sinba1ew]

Vxheous, on 28 December 2019 - 11:57 AM, said:

Who is running XL in a Cyclops....people run 2xUAC10 2xUAC5s in Cyclops, or 4xUAC5s. Alternatively, just bring Annihilators with 2xUAC10 2xUAC5 and smash the Blood Asp.

My point is exactly that noone does it cause IS would not have space for weapons while clan weapons being smaller still fitt
+ clan does not risk much with XL's

[Prototelis]

^ ST a BASP and laugh when it can't shoot anymore because it is Chris'd.

Same thing with an ER trade HBR.

Edited by Prototelis, 28 December 2019 - 12:44 PM.

[sinba1ew]

Prototelis, on 28 December 2019 - 12:11 PM, said:

Or fafnirs, or any other IS mech with buttloads of armor.

Run budget IV4 on Archers with MRMs.

What even is this thread lol?

Less lore, more war.

If hoders would run things other than NSR, PVE, or LRM they might learn the game. You do your players a serious disservice by teaching them this ****.

We use what is at moment called by leader, and strats from bots or LRM's are rarely seen... tho still would be hard to match clan range and that is what this topic is about - Clan wanting to change objectives in such way, that they can hang further back and abuse range difference.

[Prototelis]

Lawl, all I see hoders do are LRM and NSR.

Get better mechs, or get a better leader. Their calls are bad.

Everybody you've argued with in here plays both techbases.

I personally avoid playing with loyalist groups on either side, because in general loyalist units are ***.

Edited by Prototelis, 28 December 2019 - 12:51 PM.

[CIag]

As a evil and despicable pilot that played the GodAsp for the number one team in mwo in the finals, I approve of this thread. GG asp

Edited by CIag, 28 December 2019 - 12:57 PM.

[sinba1ew]

Prototelis, on 28 December 2019 - 12:32 PM, said:

SRSLY THO

You want to NSR into blood asps, grab a bunch of these things

https://mech.nav-alp...4e9ff704_ARC-2R

Ghost heat on dual MRM 40s is like 1 heat.

Open your doors before engagement, shoot, close doors, wait 2 seconds and repeat.

THIS THING HAS MORE ARMOR THAN A BLOOD ASP. And you get 20% damage reduction on ST with the doors closed.


You can even mix it up, do dual 30s and lasers. Add a RL20 for extra lols.

I'd lose a lot of armor on aproach...that is my point... they have ATM's and they do fairly similar job to MRM's... medium range missiles.... tho they have easier time with em ... I would lose a lot of HP before i would be in range so my damage resistance while helps a bit is not a solution.... also if he is shooty / laser Blod Asp i would probably lose 1 ST before in 600m from him

Thats why we opose clan wish to loosen objectives & chanhe matches to snipe fest

[MisterSomaru]

sinba1ew, on 28 December 2019 - 12:36 PM, said:

i do not agree with this....
Slepnir is unfortunately MC so even tho he has +/-ok mounts he is not gonna be in everyone's dropdeck
Also... how is IS supposed to keep up with clan in range?

Battlemaster gives 10% range quirk but Clans have quirks too for their lasers / energy so lets look at flat values first

Still IS gets ERL's with

• 9 damage
  
• 8.75heat
  
• 675/1350 range
  
• 5tons
  
• 2crit slots

While clan gets ERL's with

• 10.75 damage
  
• 11.8heat
  
• 740/1480 range
  
• 4tons
  
• 1crit slot

It does not seen like IS can compete in any way above 700 meters due to damage falloff


Also clan gets lighter and smaller weapons, and that means that You can stack more heat sinks, so weapons being hotter is not that strong argument here


Above a battlemaster with 6 ERL's was shown on a picture, lets compare than 6 Er larges of IS and Clan (i am aware you can shoot 2, not 3 or you wil get ghost heat, but bare with me)

IS gets ERL's with

• 54 damage
  
• 52.5heat
  
• 675/1350 range
  
• 30tons
  
• 12crit slots

While clan gets ERL's with

• 64.5 damage
  
• 70.8heat
  
• 740/1480 range
  
• 24tons
  
• 6crit slot

SOooo.... Thats when You snipe and messed up as clan and got third sed of ERL's instead of ER-PPC for example (and those deal 5 more damage than our doing same heat.... they really do break the form with higher heat in clan tho keep higher damage).




You are stil not in a bad spot
You get bonus 6 slots and tons, so 6 heat sinks / 3 doubles (cauuse IS double heat sinks are twice the size and same efficiency)
Moreover around 1000 m range You vastly outdamage IS
Above 1200 we only mark You doing about 1 damage per ERL... and above 1350 IS gets shot at for free....

Question is how much damage this suboptimal build could do at that range
Hmm---about 3~2 per ERL...so yes, it is not best... but You keep that advantage of damage that You start acumulating as soon as we are (no quirks counted) 1500m away, and through poke You get 12-18 damage per salvo in ranges avove our range

Than still keep advantage til we get to range of 675 when finally we get to use our lasers in full.... still we got damaged a lot on aproach and often it already is a 9v12 cause the more sturdy mechs we have the slower they are, so we can not counter this by armor or the speed cause we have to sacrifice one for the other.

ahhh last thing... clan stil gets to have backup weapons or heat efficiency cause double heat sinks and get to move faster THX to XD without risk of dying to shoulder kill.

Say what You want, but THIS is not "IS being able to keep up on long range"

hey idiot, you seem to also conveniently forget that Clan ERLL have a GH threshold of 2, as opposed to IS' 3, and generate much more heat. So. Clans have a longer stare time, and fewer clan mechs have the good mounts to abuse the ERLLs properly in the upper tonnage bracket. SO! a 5-6 ERLL Battlemaster 1G will hill peek like a champ, or 5 ERLL anni 1P (which can alpha the 5 erll twice without shutting down thanks to the massive number of heatsinks) will just laugh away and eat the damage while dishing it out, since it's also fitting a TC8 to get that proper damage. once again, you prove that you know nothing.

Edited by MrSomaru, 28 December 2019 - 12:55 PM.

[Prototelis]

sinba1ew, on 28 December 2019 - 12:53 PM, said:

I'd lose a lot of armor on aproach...that is my point...

Path better.

You oppose lengthening objectives because you refuse to learn how to play and you've trained your pilots to employ bad strategies.

[MisterSomaru]

I can also speak of the AWS-8Q with er ppcs, an optimal range of 1K, the ac2 erppc spam anni, the ac2 spam mauler, you know. all things you refuse to consider.

[sinba1ew]

we opose lenghtening objective cause all objectives would devolve into Deathmatch

Its ok to have a deathmatch mode... just why would You have a Domination match if You would have so big circle that it would never be a win reason.... i just say we do not want all game modes to be same... and increase of objective time & circle radious increase just devolve all of it to deathmatch

If that is what so many people want meaby someone should create another sugestion for separating deathmatch que from rest... all is said is that the game would get repetitive even more, and clan would play even less cause siting & sniping for half an hour is not too exciting, thus the players would start leaving the game and we would not have anyone to play against.

Claners want to win...as all people, but if You have choice of higher win chance with abuse of range difference or lower with actual fight while enemy could shoot back...allthough second is more fun and engaging & more rewarding...lots of guys will go for 30 minutes of boring snipes.

[Prototelis]

I don't mean to be a goku, I'm just saiyan.

ISMO employs non-stop NSR against clans and they're 110% better at doing it than hodor.

EVIL basically invented LRM meta in FP after the giga-buffs, and I've only seen them lose while lrming a handful of times.

Y'all go nonstop on both and get your heads caved in for it. Obviously the problem is you.

sinba1ew, on 28 December 2019 - 01:02 PM, said:

Claners want to win...

Can you please stop this?

No one left that plays FP seriously gives a flying **** about the lore or techbases. We all play both sides and switch to kick off matches.

EVERYONE YOU ARE ARGUING WITH PLAYS BOTH TECHBASES.

FFS, I HAVE MORE IS MECHS THAN CLAN MECHS

Edited by Prototelis, 28 December 2019 - 01:04 PM.

[MisterSomaru]

Prototelis, on 28 December 2019 - 01:02 PM, said:

I don't mean to be a goku, I'm just saiyan.

ISMO employs non-stop NSR against clans and they're 110% better at doing it than hodor.

EVIL basically invented LRM meta in FP after the giga-buffs, and I've only seen them lose while lrming a handful of times.

Y'all go nonstop on both and get your heads caved in for it. Obviously the problem is you.



Can you please stop this?

No one left that plays FP seriously gives a flying **** about the lore or techbases. We all play both sides and switch to kick off matches.

EVERYONE YOU ARE ARGUING WITH PLAYS BOTH TECHBASES.

FFS, I HAVE MORE IS MECHS THAN CLAN MECHS

Same. I have more IS mechs than clan. I can't play IS FP because you ******* keep clogging it up, so if I want to get a match, I need to go clan.

[sinba1ew]

MrSomaru, on 28 December 2019 - 11:51 AM, said:

On this, we can blame map design! However, those with brains can still overcome this. And proper builds! Winning through not being a coward is ez when you have 200 IQ!

Vxheous, on 28 December 2019 - 11:51 AM, said:

Again, IS can pretty much keep pace with clan for range. The only thing I find IS lacking is a strong med/heavy dakka mech that doesn't rely on RACs, but the 265ton decks allow for two Cyclops Sleipnir anyways, so it's not a big deal.

MrSomaru, on 28 December 2019 - 12:57 PM, said:

I can also speak of the AWS-8Q with er ppcs, an optimal range of 1K, the ac2 erppc spam anni, the ac2 spam mauler, you know. all things you refuse to consider.

Clan ER PPC is vastly superior doing damage of our Heavy PPC and having less heat gen,, higher range no minimum range and being 4 tons lighter and 1 less crit slot....

If You want to compare

IS ERPPC

• 10 damage
  
• 13.5 heat
  
• 7 tons
  
• 3 crit slots
  
• 810/1620 range
  
• 1900 speed (yes, i bring it up so noone says i forgot, but if you can not snipe with clan just start learning to leed, thats the same thing we have to do with much slower MRM's)

Clan ERPPC

• 10 damage pinpoint + 5 splash...................(5 more splash)
  
• 14.5 heat ....................................................(so 13.5 for 10 pinpoint + 1 for that 5 splash damage aparently)
  
• 6 tons...........................................................(1 less)
  
• 2 crit slots.....................................................(1 less)
  
• 810/1620 range ........(same)1500 speed................(still fast but slower.... learn to leed and You wil get superior damage cause You do 1.5 times the danage and still use less tons and marginally more heat)

My opinion - Ill gladly swap those 2 PPC if they want to

MrSomaru, on 28 December 2019 - 01:06 PM, said:

Same. I have more IS mechs than clan. I can't play IS FP because you ******* keep clogging it up, so if I want to get a match, I need to go clan.

how are we cloging it up?

You can not clog a match Que...You can only ...well que... so You do not get a match not because of us, but because there are barely any people playing clan...

And i do not wonder, it is boring to snipe most of the match and than MEABY.... meaby You wil get to at least get into piranha at end to get some action if You lost 3 mechs

[sinba1ew]

MrSomaru, on 28 December 2019 - 11:57 AM, said:

oh hey, pop a clan side torso and it's overheated, and will probably explode anyway from an override, or just shut down so you can tear it apart. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Have You ever used projectile weapon on clan?
It is not so hot that You would not be able to shoot...+ You wil not die from heat spike that easily unless You did terrible job menaging heat earlier and already have orange CT.

Also...it is still way better than dying to XL... i belive we can agree on that... losing shoulder reduces your capability but being dead downs them to 0.