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Remove Dom And Assault, And Put Conquest Back In


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#41 BlaizerP

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:20 AM

View Postsinba1ew, on 28 December 2019 - 11:00 AM, said:


Edit:
PS. Blod Asp has really fast twist.... start torso twisting and it wil feel like twice the armor You use without twist.


BAS torso twist is actually 40% slower than Cyclops, not that it matters anyway since you can shoot the side torsos from any angle due to the gun mounts. Though I'm not surprised to learn you are unaware of this.

Edited by BlaizerP, 28 December 2019 - 11:21 AM.


#42 NeirSolon

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:24 AM

Adapting to the new meta by gen rushing a forum post instead

#43 sinba1ew

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:27 AM

View PostHueyTheGreat, on 28 December 2019 - 11:08 AM, said:


All IS will leave? Haha. Not GNX though as we are mainly an Inner Sphere Loyalist, we get rolled by the comp guys and that is fine, we learn from it and adapt. As we want this dying game to survive a little more.

Bloop Asps? do you have any idea of how thin of a paper that mech is? try bringing pin point vomit/dakka mechs and you will see a BIG Difference.


Try bringing pinpoint daka or the lasers to go toe to toe vs clan

It is not possible and here is why:
-Clan gets double heat sinks that are 66.(6)% size
-Clan Blod Asp (And 90toners in general) can bring 120pinpoint at 90 ton and move 64KPh while stil being able to not die to 1 shoulder
-Their UAC20 is 8slots/12 tons VERSUS IS 10 slots/15 tons .... over 2 of em its a difference of 10 tons and 4 critical slots..... it allows Blod asp to pack already as much firepower as 100toner on IS side... but lets count rest of weapons - 110 firepower with 3 H-meds ...up to 150 from second tap of UAC's...so all and all more firepower and pinpoint... while he has less armor, he can also punch much harder thus making his efficiency higher
-IS bringing same weapon types has to sacrifice more tons and is slower
-IS trying to engage in laser vomit or dakka wil lose most of times cause Claners can bring so much more firepower for same tonage and XL without risk of dying to 1 ST - Thus they get to be fast and shooty.
-IS has severe range disadvantage
-IS to do 30 pinpoint has to get 3 large lasers, while clans can just bring 2 heavy lasers so both tonage and critical slots are advantage on clan side...this is not even new thing ((https://mwomercs.com...y-large-lasers/))

#44 Krasnopesky

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:34 AM

View PostIsaiah Kell, on 28 December 2019 - 10:01 AM, said:

completely disagree with everything the top 1% want here. You want to take what little the inner sphere has left going for it. Why don't we look at how broken op the blood asp is instead? or how IS simply cannot snipe clans?

What percentage of WC mechs are clan mechs? Game is already tipped in the favor of clans to the point of falling over.


In the final 3 rounds of the 2019 Championship that EmP, JGx & EON played in there were 78 Clan 'Mechs used and 114 Inner Sphere 'Mechs. So the percentage of Clan 'Mechs in the very top level of the game was 40.625%.

In Alpine Peaks, which is basically a completely sniping map, the ratio was only slightly different: 43.75% of 'Mechs used were clan.

I don't have the statistics on hand for the top 18 playoff rounds, but I doubt there would be a huge difference there either.

#45 Inosuke Hashibara

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:38 AM

View PostVxheous, on 28 December 2019 - 11:30 AM, said:

901m range on super high mounts on Battlemaster 1G, tell me again how you can't trade vs clan with IS?


You can make that 914m range at max if you go TC 8 and full range nodes. XL engine though but with 6 ERLL..

#46 MisterSomaru

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:38 AM

View PostBlaizerP, on 28 December 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:


BAS torso twist is actually 40% slower than Cyclops, not that it matters anyway since you can shoot the side torsos from any angle due to the gun mounts. Though I'm not surprised to learn you are unaware of this.


they don't know this, because A) they either don't shoot the mech, or B ) Go legs only.

Edited by MrSomaru, 28 December 2019 - 11:39 AM.


#47 Vxheous

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:40 AM

View PostSimpleUkyo, on 28 December 2019 - 11:38 AM, said:


You can make that 914m range at max if you go TC 8 and full range nodes. XL engine though but with 6 ERLL..


The extra 13m range not worth it imo, when compared to standard engine, and not getting immediately dying with XL, or chris'ed with LFE when losing that side torso:
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#48 MisterSomaru

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:41 AM

Btw, HHoD. when there are so many players on IS side, the ones that just want to play and shoot and fight are going to switch to clan to get matches. When certain people are ADAMANT they stay one side only and then complain about the other side being OP, don't follow competitive to see where the strongest mechs are, or how to use them, they should have no voice on what is strong, what is right to do, and have no concept of how a PvP shooter works, regardless of the IP. So please, stop.

#49 Vxheous

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:42 AM

View PostKrasnopesky, on 28 December 2019 - 11:34 AM, said:

In the final 3 rounds of the 2019 Championship that EmP, JGx & EON played in there were 78 Clan 'Mechs used and 114 Inner Sphere 'Mechs. So the percentage of Clan 'Mechs in the very top level of the game was 40.625%.

In Alpine Peaks, which is basically a completely sniping map, the ratio was only slightly different: 43.75% of 'Mechs used were clan.

I don't have the statistics on hand for the top 18 playoff rounds, but I doubt there would be a huge difference there either.


Damn HHoD, seems like IS mechs more meta than Clan, maybe Clan mechs need a buff

#50 sinba1ew

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:48 AM

I thought... meaby just nerf range of clan and Claners wil more often use shorter range weapons that are by definition more brawly... thus if you use UAC20 You wil not die alone with Your team 800m behind You sniping with ER-Larges
Claners would have a reason to come and brawl and they have both tonage and crit slots to wreck a lot of our mechs.... just in group.

Cause currently Claners just hang back cause if anyone brings brawl he is ostracized by the team for being suboptimal... If you do not snipe or LRM as clan You aparently pilot piranha.
>>>Cause there is no incentive to move forward maatches get repetitive... it feels like tower defence and there is less and less claners to play agains.

I am against geting fun out of the game, but the most optimal way to play clan now, is one of least fun ones - sit back and press lmb.... If clan was more angaging to play meaby more people would play it.

Hell, i used to pilot few clan mechs and i really got away from lurming & ATM'ing that way, cause it was too much.
Sure i was wining more with LRM 80 spam, but that was not fun for me, and even less for enemies 1000meters away who were geting salvo after salvo...

Lets alow pilots to have fun instead of forcing 1 or 2 "correct" playstyles (snipe & high alpha pinpoint) on everyone
This game is so customizable because we have different game modes where different mechs shine

If we go for kills every match and not have to worry about objective only kill effective decks wil win
And due to maps snipy mechs wil have advantage most of the time...
And due to the tonage clan would have advantage above IS




As example ill bring cap spider thing
There is mech that has quirks for cap - if You leave Your cap alone and have no fast movers that mech can cap fast.

Problem is that this is pretty much only thing this mech specializes... so if You were to change game modes that mech would need either a massive buff to compensate for it (similarily to most cap quirked mechs) or would need to be changed somehow so it would not become a meme.

Similarily the IS has some armor quirks that are effectively "+X time surviving and shooting back"
Problem is the Clan has that quirk " less tonage and +3X damage when You are VEEEEEERRRY far away but 1.3X heat so you can not shoot constantly"


..............Problem apears because people get annoyed at Clans for this quirk due to clans either siting back and wining cause they have range while IS does not ... or being overrun cause IS got lucky and Claners were not able to shoot em cause a massive mountain stood between them and IS mechs while they were closing distance.... This binary playstyle is verry unfun and since its optimal to be sniper its what usually You notice on clan side.... thus pilots stop playing clan so often.... it is just repetitive, boring and unfun.

#51 Zenitsu Agatsuma

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:48 AM

View Postsinba1ew, on 28 December 2019 - 11:27 AM, said:

Try bringing pinpoint daka or the lasers to go toe to toe vs clan It is not possible and here is why: -Clan gets double heat sinks that are 66.(6)% size -Clan Blod Asp (And 90toners in general) can bring 120pinpoint at 90 ton and move 64KPh while stil being able to not die to 1 shoulder -Their UAC20 is 8slots/12 tons VERSUS IS 10 slots/15 tons .... over 2 of em its a difference of 10 tons and 4 critical slots..... it allows Blod asp to pack already as much firepower as 100toner on IS side... but lets count rest of weapons - 110 firepower with 3 H-meds ...up to 150 from second tap of UAC's...so all and all more firepower and pinpoint... while he has less armor, he can also punch much harder thus making his efficiency higher -IS bringing same weapon types has to sacrifice more tons and is slower -IS trying to engage in laser vomit or dakka wil lose most of times cause Claners can bring so much more firepower for same tonage and XL without risk of dying to 1 ST - Thus they get to be fast and shooty. -IS has severe range disadvantage -IS to do 30 pinpoint has to get 3 large lasers, while clans can just bring 2 heavy lasers so both tonage and critical slots are advantage on clan side...this is not even new thing ((https://mwomercs.com...y-large-lasers/))


We can do all the math we want by calculating dps and all of that stuff. But its a different story on the field. Did you ever wonder why clan mechs does not have quirks? lesser tonnage? yea they do have that ridiculous range and firepower. Innersphere mechs compensate with tons of quirks and additional dropdeck tonnage.

So i dont see why you see clan mechs as OP.

oh btw, it is possible with innersphere erppc's to have 1012 optimal range (IS mechs with 10 percent range boosts) ever thought of that? it outranges most clan mechs. (except clan light boated AC2's)

But still IS ERLL's are more preferable in ranged fights.

#52 MisterSomaru

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:51 AM

View Postsinba1ew, on 28 December 2019 - 11:48 AM, said:

I thought... meaby just nerf range of clan and Claners wil more often use shorter range weapons that are by definition more brawly... thus if you use UAC20 You wil not die alone with Your team 800m behind You sniping with ER-Larges
Claners would have a reason to come and brawl and they have both tonage and crit slots to wreck a lot of our mechs.... just in group.

Cause currently Claners just hang back cause if anyone brings brawl he is ostracized by the team for being suboptimal... If you do not snipe or LRM as clan You aparently pilot piranha.
>>>Cause there is no incentive to move forward maatches get repetitive... it feels like tower defence and there is less and less claners to play agains.

I am against geting fun out of the game, but the most optimal way to play clan now, is one of least fun ones - sit back and press lmb.... If clan was more angaging to play meaby more people would play it.

Hell, i used to pilot few clan mechs and i really got away from lurming & ATM'ing that way, cause it was too much.
Sure i was wining more with LRM 80 spam, but that was not fun for me, and even less for enemies 1000meters away who were geting salvo after salvo...

Lets alow pilots to have fun instead of forcing 1 or 2 "correct" playstyles (snipe & high alpha pinpoint) on everyone
This game is so customizable because we have different game modes where different mechs shine

If we go for kills every match and not have to worry about objective only kill effective decks wil win
And due to maps snipy mechs wil have advantage most of the time...
And due to the tonage clan would have advantage above IS




As example ill bring cap spider thing
There is mech that has quirks for cap - if You leave Your cap alone and have no fast movers that mech can cap fast.

Problem is that this is pretty much only thing this mech specializes... so if You were to change game modes that mech would need either a massive buff to compensate for it (similarily to most cap quirked mechs) or would need to be changed somehow so it would not become a meme.

Similarily the IS has some armor quirks that are effectively "+X time surviving and shooting back"
Problem is the Clan has that quirk " less tonage and +3X damage when You are VEEEEEERRRY far away but 1.3X heat so you can not shoot constantly"

..............Problem apears because people get annoyed at Clans for this quirk due to clans either siting back and wining cause they have range while IS does not ... or being overrun cause IS got lucky and Claners were not able to shoot em cause a massive mountain stood between them and IS mechs while they were closing distance.... This binary playstyle is verry unfun and since its optimal to be sniper its what usually You notice on clan side.... thus pilots stop playing clan so often.... it is just repetitive, boring and unfun.

On this, we can blame map design! However, those with brains can still overcome this. And proper builds! Winning through not being a coward is ez when you have 200 IQ!

#53 Vxheous

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:51 AM

View Postsinba1ew, on 28 December 2019 - 11:48 AM, said:

I thought... meaby just nerf range of clan and Claners wil more often use shorter range weapons that are by definition more brawly... thus if you use UAC20 You wil not die alone with Your team 800m behind You sniping with ER-Larges
Claners would have a reason to come and brawl and they have both tonage and crit slots to wreck a lot of our mechs.... just in group.

Cause currently Claners just hang back cause if anyone brings brawl he is ostracized by the team for being suboptimal... If you do not snipe or LRM as clan You aparently pilot piranha.
>>>Cause there is no incentive to move forward maatches get repetitive... it feels like tower defence and there is less and less claners to play agains.

I am against geting fun out of the game, but the most optimal way to play clan now, is one of least fun ones - sit back and press lmb.... If clan was more angaging to play meaby more people would play it.

Hell, i used to pilot few clan mechs and i really got away from lurming & ATM'ing that way, cause it was too much.
Sure i was wining more with LRM 80 spam, but that was not fun for me, and even less for enemies 1000meters away who were geting salvo after salvo...

Lets alow pilots to have fun instead of forcing 1 or 2 "correct" playstyles (snipe & high alpha pinpoint) on everyone
This game is so customizable because we have different game modes where different mechs shine

If we go for kills every match and not have to worry about objective only kill effective decks wil win
And due to maps snipy mechs wil have advantage most of the time...
And due to the tonage clan would have advantage above IS




As example ill bring cap spider thing
There is mech that has quirks for cap - if You leave Your cap alone and have no fast movers that mech can cap fast.

Problem is that this is pretty much only thing this mech specializes... so if You were to change game modes that mech would need either a massive buff to compensate for it (similarily to most cap quirked mechs) or would need to be changed somehow so it would not become a meme.

Similarily the IS has some armor quirks that are effectively "+X time surviving and shooting back"
Problem is the Clan has that quirk " less tonage and +3X damage when You are VEEEEEERRRY far away but 1.3X heat so you can not shoot constantly"

..............Problem apears because people get annoyed at Clans for this quirk due to clans either siting back and wining cause they have range while IS does not ... or being overrun cause IS got lucky and Claners were not able to shoot em cause a massive mountain stood between them and IS mechs while they were closing distance.... This binary playstyle is verry unfun and since its optimal to be sniper its what usually You notice on clan side.... thus pilots stop playing clan so often.... it is just repetitive, boring and unfun.


Again, IS can pretty much keep pace with clan for range. The only thing I find IS lacking is a strong med/heavy dakka mech that doesn't rely on RACs, but the 265ton decks allow for two Cyclops Sleipnir anyways, so it's not a big deal.

#54 MisterSomaru

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:53 AM

View PostVxheous, on 28 December 2019 - 11:51 AM, said:

Again, IS can pretty much keep pace with clan for range. The only thing I find IS lacking is a strong med/heavy dakka mech that doesn't rely on RACs, but the 265ton decks allow for two Cyclops Sleipnir anyways, so it's not a big deal.

5 ac2 jagers work well enough in faction, even with the flimsy arms

#55 Vxheous

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:55 AM

View PostMrSomaru, on 28 December 2019 - 11:53 AM, said:

5 ac2 jagers work well enough in faction, even with the flimsy arms


Way too flimsy, I have two of them and don't touch them anymore

#56 sinba1ew

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:55 AM

View PostBlaizerP, on 28 December 2019 - 11:20 AM, said:


BAS torso twist is actually 40% slower than Cyclops, not that it matters anyway since you can shoot the side torsos from any angle due to the gun mounts. Though I'm not surprised to learn you are unaware of this.


I am aware You can shoot both side torsos, but 2 sidetorsos have still more HP than 1 CT
And You still get to walk with 1 ST exploded due to Clan XL

Cyclops is turning faster - Yes... Still You can see his side torso on his bumpy chest and XL in him gets him killed - so You can run XL and get away with it (Engine influences mech move speed)... also as i mentioned in post eariler - You can go up to 150 pinpoint in Blod ASP and move above 60 KPH... i do not recall any similar feat in cyclops...

#57 MisterSomaru

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:56 AM

View PostVxheous, on 28 December 2019 - 11:55 AM, said:

Way too flimsy, I have two of them and don't touch them anymore

Yondu usually farms 4-5k with his jagers in faction, so it's not much of an issue. I usually don't lose my arms much either. usually ST.

#58 Trashtier

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:56 AM

Man I was gonna add content but Vex and kras are killing it right now so I’ll just say this:
HHOD- the reason you prefer PVE based strategy over pvp is because you run extremely sub optimal builds given to you but two quick play “stars”. You will continue to lose every match against any real opponents in the mechlab until you run more appropriate builds for the maps your dropping on.
-Ragnar out

#59 MisterSomaru

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:57 AM

View Postsinba1ew, on 28 December 2019 - 11:55 AM, said:

I am aware You can shoot both side torsos, but 2 sidetorsos have still more HP than 1 CT
And You still get to walk with 1 ST exploded due to Clan XL

Cyclops is turning faster - Yes... Still You can see his side torso on his bumpy chest and XL in him gets him killed - so You can run XL and get away with it (Engine influences mech move speed)... also as i mentioned in post eariler - You can go up to 150 pinpoint in Blod ASP and move above 60 KPH... i do not recall any similar feat in cyclops...

oh hey, pop a clan side torso and it's overheated, and will probably explode anyway from an override, or just shut down so you can tear it apart. DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

#60 Vxheous

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Posted 28 December 2019 - 11:57 AM

View Postsinba1ew, on 28 December 2019 - 11:55 AM, said:

I am aware You can shoot both side torsos, but 2 sidetorsos have still more HP than 1 CT
And You still get to walk with 1 ST exploded due to Clan XL

Cyclops is turning faster - Yes... Still You can see his side torso on his bumpy chest and XL in him gets him killed - so You can run XL and get away with it (Engine influences mech move speed)... also as i mentioned in post eariler - You can go up to 150 pinpoint in Blod ASP and move above 60 KPH... i do not recall any similar feat in cyclops...


Who is running XL in a Cyclops....people run 2xUAC10 2xUAC5s in Cyclops, or 4xUAC5s. Alternatively, just bring Annihilators with 2xUAC10 2xUAC5 and smash the Blood Asp.



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