201 replies to this topic

[_Magno_]

I recently picked up a Cicada-3M.
G-ECM
2x ERLL
Increased engine

Max range, cooldown skills
Max sensors
Some mobility
Some armor buff

I take some time to move on the outside, spotting for our LRM buddies, communicate movements
Snipe legs, etc.

This works great on some maps, on the smaller maps its a bit of a challenge.

If I constantly fire and have above 90% hit rate, the average damage output is about 500

I've frequently been hearing on those games that go South, like on Mining Collective or Canyonlands Domination NASCAR, "You shouldn't be off on the sides, you should have been sharing armor with us!"

Lol. My buddy got told the same thing in his Shadowcat.

I tried explaining that isn't a good use of fast movers.

Confusing the enemy and getting them to turn their back's on the front line while having a fuller view of the field and providing scout information seems to be a better use of ......lpw armor, fast sniper mechs.

If I roll up in my Roughneck or Griffin brawlers, sure, I'll share armor all match.
If I roll up with my LRM 70 WHM-IIc assault, I will also share armor and get my own locks.

Even my Wolfhound I'll share armor.

Not gonna hang out front line or 2nd line with a Cicada, Shadowcat.

With a Piranah, I'll share armor by being right next to the enemies trying to run circles around them.

Again, why would you ever front line or 2nd line with a 127kph, low armor 2x ERLL mech?

[John Bronco]

Are you chronosw?

[Three Cats In A Trench Coat]

Why? Just why?

You shouldn't be running 2 ERLL mechs in the first case.
Like, honestly it's bad. Real bad.

If you want to snipe, take something serious like 4 ERLL or more
Still sniping is not the most effective strategy in QP, as you don't have teams staying at one location, so you won't get that many shots out

_Magno_, on 04 March 2020 - 11:11 AM, said:

If I constantly fire and have above 90% hit rate, the average damage output is about 500

What numbers are you really putting out though? Because I highly doubt you can put that 500 DMG out consistently as I don't see you getting lines all the time...

Edited by TheUltimateGhost, 04 March 2020 - 11:24 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

_Magno_, on 04 March 2020 - 11:11 AM, said:

Again, why would you ever front line or 2nd line with a 127kph, low armor 2x ERLL mech?

You wouldn't under normal circumstances but there are times when it's a better option. When it's hitting the endgame and you're still fresh, lead the push, draw fire and take the hit. Odds are your heavies and assaults are more shot up than you and if you're drawing enemy fire they can stay in the game longer and keep putting damage on the enemy. Sharing armour can turn the tide if it keeps other 'mechs alive.

Of course a good sniper will also know when to take a hit, if you can bait an LBX-20 boat into trading at 800m it keeps his attention off your team mates who are much closer.

[denAirwalkerrr]

Can I recommend build that actually kills stuff over tickling them?

[VonBruinwald]

denAirwalkerrr, on 04 March 2020 - 11:29 AM, said:

Can I recommend build that actually kills stuff over tickling them?

No.

[_Magno_]

TheUltimateGhost, on 04 March 2020 - 11:24 AM, said:

Why? Just why?

You shouldn't be running 2 ERLL mechs in the first case.
Like, honestly it's bad. Real bad.

If you want to snipe, take something serious like 4 ERLL or more
Still sniping is not the most effective strategy in QP, as you don't have teams staying at one location, so you won't get that many shots out

What can move 120+ with ECM and has 4 ERLL hard points and can manage the heat?

If I rolled out in an Annihilator, I'm not trying to snipe with it or move fast. I'm pushing the front line.

I think people are missing the point of the limits of a medium mech and not defaulting to the meta.

"Why are messing around in QP with a new mech? Just get a meta mech and NASCAR!"

Ok. Sure.

[John Bronco]

Well, the limits of a medium mech are much higher than what you are doing with it. Something like 2xLL 2xML would be far more useful for you and your team in qp.

[VonBruinwald]

BlaizerP, on 04 March 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

Well, the limits of a medium mech are much higher than what you are doing with it. Something like 2xLL 2xML would be far more useful for you and your team in qp.

You should try this:
CDA-3M

Get to the front, bubble and lams, then dakka dakka dakka!

[Brauer]

BlaizerP, on 04 March 2020 - 01:22 PM, said:

Well, the limits of a medium mech are much higher than what you are doing with it. Something like 2xLL 2xML would be far more useful for you and your team in qp.

Yep, on a cicada I'd think you'd get much more out of a combination of LL and ERML, even 1LL and 4ERML. You don't need erll range in QP.

[Xiphias]

_Magno_, on 04 March 2020 - 11:11 AM, said:

I've frequently been hearing on those games that go South, like on Mining Collective or Canyonlands Domination NASCAR, "You shouldn't be off on the sides, you should have been sharing armor with us!"

Lol. My buddy got told the same thing in his Shadowcat.

I tried explaining that isn't a good use of fast movers.

Confusing the enemy and getting them to turn their back's on the front line while having a fuller view of the field and providing scout information seems to be a better use of ......lpw armor, fast sniper mechs.
...

Again, why would you ever front line or 2nd line with a 127kph, low armor 2x ERLL mech?

_Magno_, on 04 March 2020 - 12:44 PM, said:

I think people are missing the point of the limits of a medium mech and not defaulting to the meta.

"Why are messing around in QP with a new mech? Just get a meta mech and NASCAR!"

Ok. Sure.

Flanking from the side and drawing attention isn't a bad thing in a fast light/medium mech, it's usually how you should be playing to get maximum effectiveness. The problem here lies in the build that you are using to accomplish this.

Simply put, the DPS of 2 ERLL is anemic and doesn't put out damage fast enough to meaningfully affect a match in most cases, particularly on smaller maps. Lots of QP matches end in 5 min or less and while you may end up putting up 500 damage over the course of a match (often being the last person alive), it's much more useful to front load that damage to kill enemy mechs quickly, thus reducing the enemy firepower and increasing your team's chances of winning a match.

At one point 2ERLL was a viable build, however power creep has since led to it being almost completely supplanted in effectiveness. It can't out trade heavier mechs, it can't do DPS as quickly as more heavily armed mechs, and it may be fast, but can't hold its own against lights. It feels good to run because you can be poking all match long and get decent final damage numbers, but your actual contribution to the match isn't going to be a lot, similar to using LRMs to get high damage numbers through spread damage.

I've run a lot of lights/mediums including plenty of Cicada builds and as a fast medium you want to be a skirmisher, not a sniper. A better build for the role you're trying to play is something like this: https://mwo.smurfy-n...a38d2a2188c31d9 (ignore the armor distribution).

Running 3xLL instead of 2xERLL gives you 50% more alpha and better burst DPS at the cost of a bit of speed and some range. While you have to get somewhat closer (which does come with some risks) you will be better at killing mechs and stripping components. Getting closer also has the benefit of drawing more attention/being more distracting which is a good thing as long as you are able to manage your range and play it well. The 2xLL+2x(ER)ML can fill a similar role, though you have to work a bit more to match up the ranges nicely.

Running 2xERLL on the Cicada is a waste of tonnage since the same build can be run on lighter mechs with similar effectiveness. Harassing from the side is only useful if it actually contributes to your team winning more than losing. You're better off bringing more firepower and getting closer to the action.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

"the other day I build a Cicada with 1 ErLL and a TC8 and .."

[Prototelis]

Armor sharing is a dumb word, and most people equate it to "eating **** for no reason"

So let's talk about health pooling instead.

There are two kinds of health pooling

Local Health pooling; group exposure with multiple teammates to present multiple targets.

Ranged or aggro health pooling; Exposing on a flank, or behind an enemy in order to draw their attention or abuse the unaware.


What you're looking for is the latter, and the BEST way to do that is to tie people up for seconds that bleed into minutes, removing them from the fight.

2ERLL isn't ****. If you want to be an ERLL light, do it in this https://mech.nav-alpha.com/#7afdeb44_WLF-1

But don't actually do it in QP. Instead choose a chariot like an Assassin, Vulcan, commando, or FLE. Annoy the **** out of like 3 people, then dip when they start to chase you while being aware that a streak ******* is probably going to begin charging towards your last known position.

[_Magno_]

VonBruinwald, on 04 March 2020 - 01:31 PM, said:

You should try this:
CDA-3M

Get to the front, bubble and lams, then dakka dakka dakka!

I'll just roll out with my Crab for that.


A Wolfhound isn't as fast as a Cicada and I can just roll out with my 5 or 6 MPL build with ECM.

The thread isn't about how effective the Cicada 3M with 2x ERLL is, I'm not arguing its a good mech for QP. Its not. I'm still playing with it to have fun and level it up for possible Faction Play.

The arguement is that, in a low armor, fast 2x ERLL Cicada,.... front lining up a ramp at Mininig Collective is a dumb idea.

[K O Z A K]

front lining with a 2 erll cicada is dumb (happy?), playing a 2 erll cicada in qp is dumb in general

[Prototelis]

_Magno_, on 04 March 2020 - 02:14 PM, said:

I'll just roll out with my Crab for that.

A waste of one of the best skirmishers in the game, and equally dumb as dropping a 2erll light in QP.

Quote

A Wolfhound isn't as fast as a Cicada and I can just roll out with my 5 or 6 MPL build with ECM.

The wolfhound I posted has greater sustained and burst DPS, a 10% range quirk (basically a free TC6), far greater survivability, better hitboxes, and is more than fast enough to play kiteyman long range from the side.

It's basically better than a 2erll cicada in every possible way.

Quote

The thread isn't about how effective the Cicada 3M with 2x ERLL is, I'm not arguing its a good mech for QP. Its not. I'm still playing with it to have fun and level it up for possible Faction Play.

This thread is 100% about how effective a 2erll cicada is.

Protip; It isn't effective at all.

Please don't run that in FP. It's a waste of tonnage.

Quote

The arguement is that, in a low armor, fast 2x ERLL Cicada,.... front lining up a ramp at Mininig Collective is a dumb idea.

The argument is the mech isn't effective, even if you plan on taking zimbabwe shots. If you want to shoot from zimbabwe in a small fast mech take the wolfhound or a panther and actually do it worth a ****.


This is also a case for why the term "armor sharing" is ******* stupid. You literally equate it to "eating **** for no reason"

Health pooling is where it's at.

Edited by Prototelis, 04 March 2020 - 02:32 PM.

[PurplePuke]

Try the Cicada 3M with dual Large Pulse Lasers. It's fun to flank with and you can focus your damage much better. Much lower range which usually doesn't matter in QP. But the damage output is good, and shot placement is key, of course.

I play it a lot. It's fun, though significantly slower than 2ERLL build.

[VonBruinwald]

_Magno_, on 04 March 2020 - 02:14 PM, said:

I'll just roll out with my Crab for that.

This, is how you Crab!

[Brauer]

VonBruinwald, on 04 March 2020 - 03:39 PM, said:

This, is how you Crab!

MPL crab disagrees.

[FRAGTAST1C]

You might want to consider 2 LL + 2 ERML instead of just 2 ERLL. If you're playing QP predominantly, the Large Lasers will be better than ERLL.

Given that the Cicada 3M has a nice reduction to UAC jam chance, you should try UAC5 or even a UAC10 with some MLs and ECM. Run slightly slower but still be able to flank and harass.