200 replies to this topic

[ENOVA]

HEY! Like the 8vs8! Come to thought that it would be better to allow groups of 2, 4 and 8 ONLY to form and participate. If people would know they must form in 2,4,or 8 that would reduce wait time

[Horseman]

Would be problematic for groups of 3 and 5 tho

[BALIander]

thanks for working on MWO - it is beeing apprechiated.

Now my 5*cent to the dollar:
We want to play with our friends.

Casual with friends is and ever was GROUP Play.
( all truely competetive playstyles can keep using private, COMP and faction )

We are less people than we used to be - so group and solo must feed the same servers.

For balance allow lance drops only (yes 4 only for dropping together) to fill the servers. Fill up incomplete Lances with solos.
Mix Lances for balancing. Just make sure - in Group queue - we can see the "rip-line" to separate the lances.

Done: -balance -use playerbase -randomnes for exitement , playing with friends

Edited by BALIander, 20 April 2020 - 01:50 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

BALIander, on 20 April 2020 - 01:47 PM, said:

thanks for working on MWO - it is beeing apprechiated.
We are less people than we used to be - so group and solo must feed the same servers.

Forgotten the days when GroupQ and Solo WERE merged and it was nothing but excruciating pain?

Let's no go back to that, ever.

[Carl Avery]

I remember those days; it certainly was miserable being a PUG versus a pre-made group.

[Krombopulos K Michael]

Eloquent, and well said. If you don't understand what he is talking about please take this opportunity to reread, and ask questions. This is fantastic

D U N E, on 20 April 2020 - 03:29 AM, said:

I want to agree with some other players, really nice to see 8V8 que, just please for the love of this games lifespan never combine GQ with the Solos unless it's an opt-in ability. I am part of the player base that would inadvertently cause the death of both of these ques if the majority of pugs aren't given the ability to leave the higher skill concentrations.

Quick play is infuriating for me when my pugs run away and do some of their own crap - but like literal pugs, they don't know what's going on and to be fair, I think they enjoy it. Sprinkle in 1-2 good players per match-up and that means they have a chance to mess around against another 10. It's infuriating as hell for me, but that is the state of that que. Some people rally them up to form basic tactics, but that que is dumb fun. If you aren't trying to win, you can mess around and do silly stuff.

Group que is going to turn into the higher skill que, there is an issue with insufficient ques with the 12 man structure. Personally I like the system the max group size of 8 players, but if the system implemented group splitting - such as a popup comes up after you have waited a minute in a 8 man - It offers to split your group into a 4v4 so you can still get a matchup and your time isn't wasted. Though make it the group has to be an even number, and that you need at least 6 mechs.
People in the LFG que should be able to class as opt-ins to fill out group que matches if there is one group for either side.

The main issue was waiting for 10 minutes and getting nothing, what could truly help is a system that enables 6-8 players the ability to get drops even if they are the only ones playing at the time. By removing the uncertainty of getting a drop and not making people resort to lobbies, you'd have a larger player base to fill out the ques and make the game more lively. No one likes wasting their time in futility.

Like so far 8v8 is a great system and I truly cannot be happier to see this from a game I had presumed was made fully stagnant. A few more pokes in the right direction like this one could make the live again. - Just, if you think about complete group/solo merge, just remember it only requires 4 players to kill 1 que - let the spuds have their mindless fun, as much as I complain about them, they are part of the reason I can have fun every 3 games.

[BALIander]

justcallme A S H, on 20 April 2020 - 02:55 PM, said:

Forgotten the days when GroupQ and Solo WERE merged and it was nothing but excruciating pain?

Let's no go back to that, ever.

Carl Avery, on 20 April 2020 - 03:54 PM, said:

I remember those days; it certainly was miserable being a PUG versus a pre-made group.

Ash, nothing is ever forgotten - but this is new times.
Think about it - cut the dominance of large drops by forcing lances - while cutting the stupid of random drops by - as well - forcing lances as drop size.

Edited by BALIander, 21 April 2020 - 01:33 PM.

[CrustyMech]

At least getting stomped by a 8 man army group takes less time...

I'll stick to solo, thanks.

[Sniper09121986]

Horseman, on 20 April 2020 - 01:33 PM, said:

Would be problematic for groups of 3 and 5 tho

Not nearly as bad as groups of 7 have it

D U N E, on 20 April 2020 - 03:29 AM, said:

Group que is going to turn into the higher skill que, there is an issue with insufficient ques with the 12 man structure. Personally I like the system the max group size of 8 players, but if the system implemented group splitting - such as a popup comes up after you have waited a minute in a 8 man - It offers to split your group into a 4v4 so you can still get a matchup and your time isn't wasted. Though make it the group has to be an even number, and that you need at least 6 mechs.
People in the LFG que should be able to class as opt-ins to fill out group que matches if there is one group for either side.

I say make an LFG function work in background and pop-up an FP-style alert if there is a vacant spot in group queue, so that the user can do something other than sitting and staring at the static screen, maybe even play other matches.

[Horseman]

justcallme A S H, on 20 April 2020 - 02:55 PM, said:

Forgotten the days when GroupQ and Solo WERE merged and it was nothing but excruciating pain?

Let's no go back to that, ever.

Or if we do go back to that, let's do it with a ****ing plan instead or just mixing groups with T1 randos who weren't able to carry their own weight in solo QP already.
Unfortunately for PGI, that means either fixing the **** PSR system or divorcing it from matchmaking.

[D U N E]

BALIander, on 20 April 2020 - 01:47 PM, said:

Now my 5*cent to the dollar:
We want to play with our friends.

Casual with friends is and ever was GROUP Play.
( all truely competetive playstyles can keep using private, COMP and faction )

Comp play and private lobbies does not bring us any C-Bills, many 'newer' players like myself are constantly trying to make money - and while in solo I don't really think and do the good o'l rotato potato like everyone else. Once group que comes back I am gonna be dropping groups of course, and I will need to go back to being actively competitive for "Muh yarls".

People seem to underestimate that not only do the highly competitive players play the game - if they can play it with their friends who seem to also be competitive as well.

Many like A S H here aren't trying to stop it because they are going to be at the wrong end of the stick. They are saying it cause they are going to be the ones holding the stick and seal clubbing, and are trying to give hyper casual pugs a chance. Best case, MM can at least see the two highest rated teams should not be on the same side and the pugs are caught up between two really good teams. Worst case, that doesn't happen and one team is fighting the other for damage.

I have personally dropped with some really good teams, **** in the 8v8 I got to drop with Lurm god and Krasnopesky. I just want to say in none of those matches was I trying to win, I was just trying to get my damage before everyone was dead on the opposing team. I'd really stop underestimating how good some comp players are, someone like me ***** up a lot, so I don't matter that much - but saying that the top tier players do play, and many enjoy playing it a lot. In the current state you are really gonna start remembering their names, and seeing what happens when they play against people worst than them.

Edited by D U N E, 22 April 2020 - 07:41 PM.

[Be my Guest]

was there ever even a time 12 vs 12 with solo and group together? Or was that in the time of 8 vs 8 only?


To attract new players the game definitely needs the possibility that people can drop easily together with 1 or 2 friends. This feature is missing for years .


In regards to merging group queue into solo queue in the end it all comes down to how this is implemented. A intelligent match maker would be able to handle most of the issues.


Probably groups of more then two should only be matched with Tier 2 or 1. Or at least such parameters should be part of a new MM right from the start, so that changes to the MM could be made very fast in case things are not working out as intended.
If you keep groups really restricted it would be nearlly the same as allowing solo players opting for group queue. And tier 2 or 1 players simple should not have the chance to opt against it.

Edited by Be my Guest, 23 April 2020 - 11:51 AM.

[Paul Meyers DEST]

All my goodness.

[General Solo]

Be my Guest, on 23 April 2020 - 11:49 AM, said:

A intelligent match maker would be able to handle most of the issues.

There's the problem right there.
Its why we are here.
We got no intelligent match maker and one doesn't look like appearing any time soon.

[DAEDALOS513]

OZHomerOZ, on 24 April 2020 - 09:35 AM, said:

There's the problem right there.
Its why we are here.
We got no intelligent match maker and one doesn't look like appearing any time soon.

How on earth is the matchmaker going to work when there isn't a sufficient player base? Back in MWO's prime, matchmaker had a bigger pool to work with and did a decent job.. now matchmaker scrounges to find enough players to drop a single faction match..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 24 April 2020 - 09:54 AM.

[Gagis]

Matchmaker needs just 24 players to work.

But it also needs to know something about those players. What we have now only knows everyone is Tier 1 and thus equal.

[Anomalocaris]

DAEDALOS513, on 24 April 2020 - 09:54 AM, said:

How on earth is the matchmaker going to work when there isn't a sufficient player base? Back in MWO's prime, matchmaker had a bigger pool to work with and did a decent job.. now matchmaker scrounges to find enough players to drop a single faction match..

As some wag said, you only need 24 players to create a balanced match. But you also need to accurately rate/rank those players to create that balance. The tier system does not do so. It never did, but a couple years ago not as many people had floated to Tier 1 by virtue of matches played, so it wasn't quite as bad.

Start ranking on average match score, w/l, whatever combo and you'll get much better matches, even if only 24 players are in the queue.

[n00biwan]

Like, let rando solos into gq?

Why not? The separated fp unit/solo q thing only let solos join the group bucket if they made a 1 man unit, which many solos did to be able to access the better play without actually having to join a regular unit. Was a good thing.

Reminds me, aren't we overdue a tukayidd event?

[DAEDALOS513]

You only need 24 players to make matchmaker work? What? Are you talking about just throwing random players together or pitting together players of the same skill?.. because if you want the latter to work, you need much more than 24 players.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 24 April 2020 - 11:50 AM.

[Anomalocaris]

DAEDALOS513, on 24 April 2020 - 11:50 AM, said:

You only need 24 players to make matchmaker work? What? Are you talking about just throwing random players together or pitting together players of the same skill?.. because if you want the latter to work, you need much more than 24 players.

It's quite simple. You make sure that each team has as equal a level of _overall_ skill as possible. For example, let's say that you and I are in the matchmaking pool of 24 players and we happen to be the top ranked guys by average match score. The MM would look at that and place us on opposite teams. It would then look at the next 2 highest match score players and put them on opposite teams and so on. It doesn't matter if the bottom 2 players in the group of 24 are 150 MS score players. They'd be split as well. There is also the requirement to balance mech classes and tonnage, so you have to switch some guys around, but you end up with a pretty good balance of skill.

Balanced matches don't mean that only people like you and I end up in a match. It just means that the skill distribution is as equal as possible on each team. Yes, there will be low skill players on both sides, but that's the price of low population. But at least both sides get equal amounts. And if the top tier players neutralize each other, it can be the play of those low skill pilots that swing the outcome of the battle.

As the matchmaker works right now, you and I and another top 3% player could all end up on one side of the match in meta assaults while the other side gets 3 250 MS players in LRM Stalkers. And that's perfectly fine according the parameters the matchmaker uses.