297 replies to this topic

[Larsh]

Anomalocaris, on 24 April 2020 - 11:38 PM, said:

You think that there are more people who feel like you and Larsh dropping solo queue right now. Maybe you're right. But I think that there are a lot of people that drop solo because that's what fits their play style, time availability, etc. And say what you will, but people tend to have more fun when they're winning, or at least having close matches. And the fact that solo queue is chugging along while group queue is dead should at least make you consider I might be right. And if I am, mixing groups into solo will make them miserable (or, at least, more miserable .

You bring up a really good point here. There is a wide player base when it comes to MWO, and I can respect that. But, I stated earlier today is the fact that not many people come here to the forums to check up on these updates. Some of it comes from the idea that the forums are a salt mine, and they avoid it.

The other side is that Russ and Paul didn't really have a good way to announce these new changes. I only found out via Reddit, and even then, not everyone checks that area.

Instead, what should have been done in the first place, is that a banner announcement should have been created on the MWO log in page, or announcement screen. Place a call to action to let everyone know that this could be a thing that is happening.

Then with the possible influx of suggestions and ideas, do not create a forum post to discuss the topic. Leave it to a poll on one page.

[LTC Kilgore]

So what I am seeing here is that PGI has managed to drive off enough players with their poor decision making, head scratching balance decisions, and lack of skill to fix problems that have existed for years, and now their "solution" is to combine queues

[IanDresarie]

I don't know people, my group and I went into some 8v8 group drops yesterday and a a fricking blast while losing every single game except 1. We set ourselves the goals to: Have fun and kill 2 people. We never expected to win and obviously didn't as we were 8 random, semi coordinated people of very different skill level going up against the usual tryhard groups. We achieved the second goal in most game, but we had fun in every single one.
What I'm saying is: Playing with friends >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> winning. I'll take nonstop losses as long as I get to play with my friends.

[cougurt]

i think a better solution for people wanting to play with friends might be to just implement sync dropping as an official feature. this way you would at least be guaranteed to end up in the same match together, and it would prevent strong players from reliably teaming up and murdering the queue.

[Isaiah Kell]

I would like to be able to drop with my 8yo son. He is currently T5, and well, I'm T1.

I was hoping the group queue would allow us this, but alas, when he and I dropped in a 2man group, it would not launch on NA servers. We tried again by including Euro servers, but again, 5min+ wait time.

Edited by Isaiah Kell, 25 April 2020 - 09:45 AM.

[Brauer]

Isaiah Kell, on 25 April 2020 - 09:42 AM, said:

I would like to be able to drop with my 8yo son. He is currently T5, and well, I'm T1.

I was hoping the group queue would allow us this, but alas, when he and I dropped in a 2man group, it would not launch on NA servers. We tried again by including Euro servers, but again, 5min+ wait time.

Dropping with 4 is best for group queue I think, and depending on when you were trying to drop it may not be very active. NA prime seems to be the best time for it so far.

[SoulRcannon]

When many of the players I know to look out for, for their propensity to hand my arse to me in QP or otherwise carry their teams when they play, are saying (and I'm paraphrasing and over-simplifying severely, here) either:

A ) Please don't merge the queues, it'll alienate some people and the game population will take another hit, OR
B ) Can't wait, I'll bring the boys and my spud-farming toys (sardonically regarding PGI's stance, in jest or not)

Then I would suggest that the alternative offered, to re-balance rewards for 8v8 group queue and leave it as is, is the option to go for here. Doesn't hurt to do for a potential interim period just to gather more data, at any rate.

It's disheartening to hear that an opt-in button for solos to join group queue has been disregarded, as I feel it would absolutely be an option some would love to utilise. If it were to exist, it'd allow for some to access 8v8 and a slightly less casual version of what goes on in QP, and if it was advertised well enough, could alleviate some of the population problem in group queue.

Edited by SoulRcannon, 25 April 2020 - 03:24 PM.

[Thraka]

I don't play tons but I found a friend that wanted to try it out which made me super excited to get back into the game. But doing 2-player really sucked. I was shocked to see it was only 8 vs 8, which kind of sucks when you have a newbie as they aren't really going to contribute much, so you're holding back your team. It's much easier to squeek by a few newbies in a full match.

The queue took a few minutes but I was really annoyed we were on EU servers with 200 ping. I couldn't find options to restrict to NA. The second match we queued for about 5 minutes before giving up and turning the game off.

Why wouldn't you keep 2-player groups in the general solo population? Having 2 players work really well together isn't going to swing anything? Even having a team of 2-player teams vs a full team of solos is probably not gong to change the game, those 2-player teams will still need to work together as a whole, just like the solos will have to.

Please, at least put 2-player groups back into solo queue so I can play with my friend. Playing with a friend will keep me interested in the game. It will get him interested in it also, which means potential money for you guys. I don't think he's going to get that interested if he's only playing alone. Quarantine makes us want to play together.

[justcallme A S H]

Isaiah Kell, on 25 April 2020 - 09:42 AM, said:

I would like to be able to drop with my 8yo son. He is currently T5, and well, I'm T1.

I was hoping the group queue would allow us this, but alas, when he and I dropped in a 2man group, it would not launch on NA servers. We tried again by including Euro servers, but again, 5min+ wait time.

Tier means nothing in GroupQ.

That just means there was no 6-man you could fill in for, as a 2man.

It is all about what other groups are out and the MM being able(or unable) to make a match you fit into.

Thraka, on 25 April 2020 - 03:38 PM, said:

Having 2 players work really well together isn't going to swing anything?

As a player who's played 1,000s of games in Solo and GroupQ - I can tell you that a good 2-man team can absolutely dominate and dictate and outcome of a match.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 25 April 2020 - 03:47 PM.

[Andrzej Lechrenski]

justcallme A S H, on 25 April 2020 - 05:43 AM, said:

I would absolutely love to see what evidence to have to back up that totally outlandish claim. I mean I know you're gonna have absolutely nothing to substantiate it - but it's gonna be a great laugh to see what you come up with at least.

From the names I used to see regularly to the names I see now - low skill or high skill - all skill levels have left when things were bad. Bad changes, poor development, bad match qualify. No one is safe. To assume it make a statement that it's only players that expected Teamworks in SoloQ that have quit the game is absolutely laughable, oh, and grossly incorrect.

You are correct. That was Trump-level BS. What I should have said is "group queue was more hurt than solo queue was when people left." I'll own that.

justcallme A S H, on 25 April 2020 - 03:48 PM, said:

Tier means nothing in GroupQ.

That just means there was no 6-man you could fill in for, as a 2man.

It is all about what other groups are out and the MM being able(or unable) to make a match you fit into.



As a player who's played 1,000s of games in Solo and GroupQ - I can tell you that a good 2-man team can absolutely dominate and dictate and outcome of a match.

An asteroid COULD strike the Earth next week and destroy all life. Let's wet our pants and hide in bomb shelter. You know, just in case.

[cougurt]

Andrzej Lechrenski, on 25 April 2020 - 10:21 PM, said:

An asteroid COULD strike the Earth next week and destroy all life. Let's wet our pants and hide in bomb shelter. You know, just in case.

this isn't some rare occurrence we're talking about here, a good 2-man absolutely will swing the odds heavily in their team's favor, to the point where a loss is the unlikely exception.

[Larsh]

cougurt, on 25 April 2020 - 11:15 PM, said:

this isn't some rare occurrence we're talking about here, a good 2-man absolutely will swing the odds heavily in their team's favor, to the point where a loss is the unlikely exception.

But for those of us that haven't seen this first hand, you'll have to excuse us if we're skeptical. Have any stats or anything to back up these claims?

Listen, I'm not here to be a ****, but without sufficient evidence of these player pulls and stomps, these back and forths are going to continue without end from both sides of the player spectrum.

At this point, I'm ready to be ignored again on this as each time I've brought this up no one has replied to either agree or disagree on this statement.

So I'll say it again. Let the devs control this decision. Let them run their test. And if us casual players come back for this test and we are wrong in our judgment that is fine. We have no ego to prove and will be glad to resort back to the old method of sync drops.

[Anomalocaris]

Larsh, on 26 April 2020 - 10:27 AM, said:

But for those of us that haven't seen this first hand, you'll have to excuse us if we're skeptical. Have any stats or anything to back up these claims?

Go take a look at the leaderboard stats. A couple years ago, I used to find myself regularly playing in matches with Lizzee, Hammercoleman and prtNspz. 3 top notch players who, afaik, don't play anymore. Each of these guys in solo was pulling 2.5+ WLR and 2-3 kills/match along with AMS in the 500 +/- range. I remember one day I played again prtNspz 6 times in the course of 90 minutes. In 5 of those 6 matches he was on the other team and he won every single one, even pulling the team back from big deficits in a couple.

But anecdotes aside, you don't rack up near 3:1 WLR and 5:1 or better KDRs if you're not beating the living snot out of the other team on a consistent basis. Put 2 of those guys on the same side and their stats say they should be responsible for 5-6 kills/game. Yeah, we have a lot of potatoes in MWO, but when the other 10 guys only need to kill 6 (and the 1%ers will help on those as well) because they have 2 elite level players, life gets a lot easier. And RNGesus help you if you get 3-4 on one team. Your only hope might be that they gank each other so they can get the kills.

[Larsh]

Anomalocaris, on 26 April 2020 - 10:40 AM, said:

Go take a look at the leaderboard stats. A couple years ago, I used to find myself regularly playing in matches with Lizzee, Hammercoleman and prtNspz. 3 top notch players who, afaik, don't play anymore. Each of these guys in solo was pulling 2.5+ WLR and 2-3 kills/match along with AMS in the 500 +/- range. I remember one day I played again prtNspz 6 times in the course of 90 minutes. In 5 of those 6 matches he was on the other team and he won every single one, even pulling the team back from big deficits in a couple.

But anecdotes aside, you don't rack up near 3:1 WLR and 5:1 or better KDRs if you're not beating the living snot out of the other team on a consistent basis. Put 2 of those guys on the same side and their stats say they should be responsible for 5-6 kills/game. Yeah, we have a lot of potatoes in MWO, but when the other 10 guys only need to kill 6 (and the 1%ers will help on those as well) because they have 2 elite level players, life gets a lot easier. And RNGesus help you if you get 3-4 on one team. Your only hope might be that they gank each other so they can get the kills.

Thanks for replying, its much appreciated. Heh I'll admit, my stats will never compare, granted that was never my fight or argument to prove.

I'd like for some here to try to remove themselves from their shoes and try to see my pair. My group and I like to play for experimental sake. Probably why our stats show as lower.

I think we can both agree that we want to see this game live on, be it for different play styles. And I think a better judgment can be made if we had much more input from the playerbase that go beyond this forum post. I don't come here often, but I've decided to partake in this discussion because I am passionate for those that want to play in groups again.

I really wish Russ would approve placing this on the game announcement page as many players aren't aware of this discussion.

[Gakuseinozen]

Just wanted to add my two cents:

Please don't merge solos with group queue. Keep group queue 8v8 and leave it at that.

8v8 has been a positive change that has brought some excitement back to the game; it is a known quantity.

Merging solos with group queue has the ability to drive players away, and this game doesn't need that with the population being so low already.

Go with the option that you KNOW will be good for the game, not the one that might be.

Thank you!

[Anomalocaris]

Larsh, on 26 April 2020 - 10:52 AM, said:

I think we can both agree that we want to see this game live on, be it for different play styles. And I think a better judgment can be made if we had much more input from the playerbase that go beyond this forum post. I don't come here often, but I've decided to partake in this discussion because I am passionate for those that want to play in groups again.

I really wish Russ would approve placing this on the game announcement page as many players aren't aware of this discussion.

As long as I'm playing on a laptop with a trackball (yes really) and my eyes keep aging, I'm not sure my stats will ever get much better either.

That said I fully agree with you about PGI needed to communicate better. Twitter is not the way. Front page on the website and on the launch pop-up in game is the bare minimum needed IMO. That said, this has been brought up to them before without much impact.

[Larsh]

Anomalocaris, on 26 April 2020 - 12:13 PM, said:

As long as I'm playing on a laptop with a trackball (yes really) and my eyes keep aging, I'm not sure my stats will ever get much better either.

That said I fully agree with you about PGI needed to communicate better. Twitter is not the way. Front page on the website and on the launch pop-up in game is the bare minimum needed IMO. That said, this has been brought up to them before without much impact.

Communication is key. And the fact that this announcement was placed on a forum page that many of the player base doesn't check often is a failure on their part.

Instead, it has allowed us few that do come here to voice concerns. In the end I don't think its fair to those that are unaware of these possible changes.

I'd rather see this forum thread nuked from orbit, and start anew with a formal announcement on the game launcher.

[Vxheous]

Larsh, on 26 April 2020 - 10:52 AM, said:

Thanks for replying, its much appreciated. Heh I'll admit, my stats will never compare, granted that was never my fight or argument to prove.

I'd like for some here to try to remove themselves from their shoes and try to see my pair. My group and I like to play for experimental sake. Probably why our stats show as lower.

I think we can both agree that we want to see this game live on, be it for different play styles. And I think a better judgment can be made if we had much more input from the playerbase that go beyond this forum post. I don't come here often, but I've decided to partake in this discussion because I am passionate for those that want to play in groups again.

I really wish Russ would approve placing this on the game announcement page as many players aren't aware of this discussion.

Tell you what, how about you get your group together, and Ash gets a group together, and we'll go play private matches for say... 2 hours straight. We'll even see if we can bring some EmP out of retirement for Ash's group. We'll see how long your group stays interested over 2 hrs as you get the snot beat out of you game after game after game. I give it....3 games b4 someone on your side decides they have something else better to do.

That is what allowing 4 mans into solo queue will look like.

Edited by Vxheous, 26 April 2020 - 01:29 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Larsh, on 26 April 2020 - 10:27 AM, said:

But for those of us that haven't seen this first hand, you'll have to excuse us if we're skeptical. Have any stats or anything to back up these claims?

Really? Just look at top player stats.

There cannot be any scepticism when it is all publicly available data.

Larsh, on 26 April 2020 - 10:27 AM, said:

So I'll say it again. Let the devs control this decision.

Why though?

Lets remember the great "updates" the devs brought us in the last few years

• Long Tom,
  
• "Volumetric rescale" (which was not volumetric).
  
• Engine Desync,
  
• Skill Tree(Maze).
  
• De-quirken-ing as part of #3 & #4.

There is a lot more I could add to this list. Each and every, single one, can be plotted on the Population Graphs for the player-base and there are extremely distinct drops in population that is directly correlated to the changes.

So while the Devs need to control it - they should not implement yet another thing that will essentially break MWO for the last time. There is not the population left to absorb another hit.

Just last night I think we went 7-0 in GroupQ (3 friends + myself). Most were 8-0 games.

Do you think people kept playing after they were dunked 8-0?

Of course not. 2 of groups were streaming and they started getting dunked on by a 4man and pretty quickly gave up. So 16 players or so said they essentially don't want to lose all night to better groups.

The minority of you who claim that "losing is ok, losing is fun, losing wont make us leave"... Might be OK for that minority. It is definitely not the majority view from what I've seen in my 1,000s of games. So I will stand by the statement that stomps are not OK, no one enjoys them and they will NUKE the playerbase.

Stomps will also be much more frequent if Groups are allowed into SoloQ. That is simply indisputable. How the majority wins from that situation, looking at it objectively, I don't know/understand.

[Larsh]

Vxheous, on 26 April 2020 - 01:29 PM, said:

Tell you what, how about you get your group together, and Ash gets a group together, and we'll go play private matches for say... 2 hours straight. We'll even see if we can bring some EmP out of retirement for Ash's group. We'll see how long your group stays interested over 2 hrs as you get the snot beat out of you game after game after game. I give it....3 games b4 someone on your side decides they have something else better to do.

That is what allowing 4 mans into solo queue will look like.

Now this is an interesting proposition!

But you really are missing the points of my prior comments. I couldn't make it for our usual Friday drop night, but my gang got pretty beat in 8v8 and they said they still had a hell of a good time.

This is why I request you take a min to remove yourself from your own bubble of influence. The group i play with don't care about losing. We enjoy the time together playing as a group.