1579 replies to this topic

[Horseman]

Zulu211, on 17 May 2020 - 02:41 PM, said:

His stats might be affected. You see, this Anomoly is all about manipulating the data for prestige.

Oh? By all means, show us where and how do you think he did that?

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I struggle to comprehend a guy so concerned about stats believing a player that averages 3 games a day will be a noticeable loss. that's his claim. He played 100 battles LAST MONTH and thinks he's statistically significant.

No. You are misrepresenting his statements. What he's doing is boycotting this change - which he's well within his rights to do and well within his rights to advocate if he wants to.

Nearly Dead, on 17 May 2020 - 04:57 PM, said:

Have they said what the server restart on Tuesday is about? I hope it is to adjust the MM or PSR system.

Solaris season reset:

Constalation, on 17 May 2020 - 06:36 PM, said:

So suddenly DAEDALOS513 is not allowed to play the game?

Oh, he is. How would you propose to stop him anyway?
The thing is, he's been ranting and raving at how much better this is for the game and anyone who believes match quality is down is WRONG.
What this information does is put his unconditional support for the change in a very different context: he's not advocating for this change because he genuinely believes it's better for match quality or the playerbase, but because he enjoys stomping pugs and this change provided him with considerably more of that sort of entertainment.

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Edit: In fact, there is a significant amount of precedent that shows massed complaints and public outcry is the only way some devs will reverse something. If you want to reverse this SoupQueue, you should join DAEDALOS513. Start stomping extra hard so that more players will begin to complain about match balance.

There is a significant amount of precedent that shows PGI rarely - if ever - reverse anything at all.

Edited by Horseman, 17 May 2020 - 11:16 PM.

[MeanMachinE]

Horseman, on 17 May 2020 - 11:11 PM, said:

There is a significant amount of precedent that shows PGI rarely - if ever - reverse anything at all.

Do you remember what happened with missiles? At some point the more casual players were asking PGI to beef up LRM's as they weren't in their opinion effective enough in solo matches or so. Some of the the top tier players wanted to show that this was not true and started running missiles in faction warfare and did a lot of stomping there. The end result? Missiles we're beefed up five times after they were already proven to be OP when done right

This also shows how players are in different pockets during different times in their journey playing the game. That makes discussing about the changes and how they affect each player very hard as all are experiencing the game a bit differently. Basically everyone talking should tell their pocket of which they are concerned about and parameters they are worried about that the change can affect. That would be a way to try to understand better why someone can see the change differently than what e.g. I do. And also to better see if there would be an easy fix to take into account a pocket that is drastically affected by a change.

Because of these pockets it really is a bit pointless to talk about different persons and if they have a right to say their opinion on a change. I believe PGI has long gone stopped reading this thread as it is now mostly about who can say their opinion or not. This thread should be about discussing the change as objectively and constructively as possible. Please try to stick to that if possible, thank you

[FRAGTAST1C]

DAEDALOS513, on 17 May 2020 - 06:32 PM, said:

Reality is this game has a low population so it's very conceivable that one side can have no groups. But you do you.. u know what they say about assumers..

So, wait until a group with similar threat value as yours becomes available for a match and THEN, throw them on the opposing sides. There are plenty of matches going on and two strong groups continually avoid each other 'cause PGI wants matches to kick off without delay at the cost of imbalance. Waiting 5 mins doesn't cost anyone anything. Once that match takes place, then you have a cycle that continues without lowering the match quality too much.

So, what is it? Are you saying that no group can match your skill level or that you want to avoid them by making excuses?

[Horseman]

MeanMachinE, on 18 May 2020 - 01:38 AM, said:

Do you remember what happened with missiles? At some point the more casual players were asking PGI to beef up LRM's as they weren't in their opinion effective enough in solo matches or so. Some of the the top tier players wanted to show that this was not true and started running missiles in faction warfare and did a lot of stomping there. The end result? Missiles we're beefed up five times after they were already proven to be OP when done right

I still remember Long Tom.

[MeanMachinE]

Horseman, on 18 May 2020 - 02:28 AM, said:

I still remember Long Tom.

Long Tom was annoying But it did have the effect that there was a real reason to play scouting

[Excessive Paranoia]

Anomalocaris, on 17 May 2020 - 09:51 PM, said:

He doesn't care.

100% This!...

Russ doesn't even play MWO anymore, probably hasn't for years. I remember him even mentioning in a tweet (that I can't find for some reason now... so maybe I'm wrong) that he's been playing more than a thousands WoT matches lately.

MeanMachinE, on 18 May 2020 - 01:38 AM, said:

Because of these pockets it really is a bit pointless to talk about different persons and if they have a right to say their opinion on a change. I believe PGI has long gone stopped reading this thread as it is now mostly about who can say their opinion or not. This thread should be about discussing the change as objectively and constructively as possible. Please try to stick to that if possible, thank you

On this point I believe you are probably 100% correct... This discussion should be about what our opinions are and not who is allowed to voice them. And yes, PGI have probably stopped reading this weeks ago beyond policing it for moderation actions.

[Blackhorse11Cav]

Einsel, on 17 May 2020 - 10:28 PM, said:

I dunno about the complicated discussions, and I'm sure that people in the long-time playing/meta/pro-solo tiers will certainly feel differently than I.

All I know is that, as a non-poster (actually, guess this is my first post, so hopefully a fresh opinion/outlook) and as primarily a for-fun player rather than a competitive player, this change is bringing both me and all of my friends back. We don't take the wins/losses thing too seriously, we just liked to play a fun video game, but we all quit when it became impossible to find matches as a group of 2+.

Nice to be playing the game again after a lengthy hiatus, especially since it's literally one of only three games my friends are willing to play with me. We tried MW5: Mercenaries, but we prefer MWO.

Edit: My friends' comments:
-"I think they lost a lot of players when they did that queuing system. MWO was either playing solo, or nothing."
-"Mechs? We're playing again?!?!?!?!"

Exactly.

[w4ldO]

Excessive Paranoia, on 18 May 2020 - 03:40 AM, said:

Russ doesn't even play MWO anymore, probably hasn't for years. I remember him even mentioning in a tweet (that I can't find for some reason now... so maybe I'm wrong) that he's been playing more than a thousands WoT matches lately.

https://twitter.com/...027702093418496

[FRAGTAST1C]

w4ldO, on 18 May 2020 - 04:55 AM, said:

https://twitter.com/...027702093418496

You know that there is a lot of straw-clutching when the person, rather than talking about the current issue, tries to bounce of comparisons with something else and that too falsely, to make themselves feel good.

[DAEDALOS513]

FRAGTAST1C, on 18 May 2020 - 02:11 AM, said:

So, wait until a group with similar threat value as yours becomes available for a match and THEN, throw them on the opposing sides. There are plenty of matches going on and two strong groups continually avoid each other 'cause PGI wants matches to kick off without delay at the cost of imbalance. Waiting 5 mins doesn't cost anyone anything. Once that match takes place, then you have a cycle that continues without lowering the match quality too much.

So, what is it? Are you saying that no group can match your skill level or that you want to avoid them by making excuses?

I think you missed the point of our conversation..

[DAEDALOS513]

Anomalocaris, on 17 May 2020 - 06:30 PM, said:

You're one of the worst of the bunch. You've been farming pugs to the extent that you've increased your WLR by 33% while talking about how good for the game this merge is. I've seen you group dropping plenty on streams. You've been around long enough, played enough group and dropped with enough top players to know better. These other guys at least have the excuse of ignorance born of inexperience.

That you want to chime in with petty statements like this is just indicative of your hypocrisy on the whole issue. I'm well aware of what's going on in merge queue. The facts are indisputable. The only question you have to answer is - "Does allowing group drops justify the decreased match quality?" So does it? Cause the match quality is lower, by PGI's stomp count and by the tonnage imbalances that were never seen in SoloQ prior to the merge. So does adding group drops justify reduced quality? Yes or no?

My win/loss has gone up lately because I rarely played solo queue before now.. it was all faction play and I don't think w/l is tracked in faction is it? Even so, game frequency is much lower in faction than soup games . I took a year off from the game and got back about 2-3 months ago.. when i got back i was thrilled to see 8v8 implemented shortly after, so we could now drop with mates.. except matches were ending way too quick leaving me unsatisfied. It reminded me somewhat of scouting mode. So although I played some 8v8 action, and solo queue being just as painful as always, I still stuck with faction play for the most part.

Soup queue is a huge improvement and the fact that some of you guys are fighting to get that horrible, chaotic freak-show of a game mode back (that had about the same number of stomps as soup; that had as much chance to actually make a player worse because of the horrible gameplay.. is beyond me..

Honestly, it can't get much more casual than it is now.. unless you want to go back to players aimlessly wandering around, nascaring almost every match and no comms.. I experienced players raging much more in solo queue than in soup.

So if my w/l has gone up as you say it's because I'm playing it much more lately. Not because I'm deliberately farming by taking 3 others and dropping meta.. I feel filthy taking meta like some other units solely do (I won't name names but you'd think at their level they wouldn't have to but that ego of theirs is hard to overcome i guess). Half the time I'm solo'ing in non meta, the other half I'm in a group of 2 or 3 taking non-meta and trying to make it work using lance tactics.

I've lost my share of games, but ofcourse you wouldn't know because you don't even play the game..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 19 May 2020 - 08:49 AM.

[Excessive Paranoia]

FRAGTAST1C, on 18 May 2020 - 09:24 AM, said:

You know that there is a lot of straw-clutching when the person, rather than talking about the current issue, tries to bounce of comparisons with something else and that too falsely, to make themselves feel good.

Also a very good point, but I think its also indicative of a much worse issue, namely that if you don't play a game enough to be affected by its development, you're definitely not in a position to make wide ranging decisions about its development.

I think its interesting that he would ever hold up WoT as an example of good gameplay and by extension Wargaming because if that's the example he's been trying to follow all of these years, he's been doing a great job of it. WG is reviled by huge swathes of its player base for many things, including its abysmal decision making, poor player relations, over priced game items, and blatant pay to win / cash grab game development (...any of this sounding familiar...?), and then WoT itself has had an endless, unsilencable stream of criticism laid against it for basically as long as its existed, with poor match balance being one of the ongoing threads that just never seems to go away. Basically, if you want a role model for good game development and stewardship, WG is literally one of the worst places you can look to find one.

A much better place to look would have been CCP and Eve Online. Yes its a different style of game, but its been doing something right for a very long time as its still here after nearly 20 years and still going strong. The important example here though is that when CCP realized they either didn't play their game enough, or couldn't play enough parts of it to understand the whole thing, they created the Council of Stellar Management to help guide them. Being an elected group of players from all across the game, they were able to help CCP with balancing issues and game direction issues, and then CCP actually listened to their guidance. Sure not all of the decisions were the best, but when things went wrong, they were identified, admitted, and corrected.

When Russ et al stopped playing the game, they should have realized at that moment that they would no longer be able to make informed decisions about its future and set up something similar. It wouldn't have to be anything grand or glorious, just a few players who represent a cross section of the player base who can help make decisions for the future of the game. And then all you have to do is listen to them because they will always know whats better for a game than someone who doesn't play it anymore...

[DAEDALOS513]

Horseman, on 17 May 2020 - 11:11 PM, said:

Oh, he is. How would you propose to stop him anyway?
The thing is, he's been ranting and raving at how much better this is for the game and anyone who believes match quality is down is WRONG.
What this information does is put his unconditional support for the change in a very different context: he's not advocating for this change because he genuinely believes it's better for match quality or the playerbase, but because he enjoys stomping pugs and this change provided him with considerably more of that sort of entertainment.

[redacted]

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 18 May 2020 - 11:06 PM.

[Excessive Paranoia]

DAEDALOS513, on 18 May 2020 - 02:35 PM, said:

[redacted - quote cleanup]

Idk, when someone aggressively defends a clearly imbalanced system that they are benefiting from with personal attacks and disparaging comments instead of reasoned opinion and supporting evidence, they sound a lot more like someone who enjoys seal clubbing than someone who really values game balance. Perhaps you'd like to explain the logic behind a statement like "You have no idea what you're talking about"? On its own it doesn't carry much weight...

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 18 May 2020 - 11:08 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Excessive Paranoia, on 18 May 2020 - 03:13 PM, said:

Idk, when someone aggressively defends a clearly imbalanced system that they are benefiting from with personal attacks and disparaging comments instead of reasoned opinion and supporting evidence, they sound a lot more like someone who enjoys seal clubbing than someone who really values game balance. Perhaps you'd like to explain the logic behind a statement like "You have no idea what you're talking about"? On its own it doesn't carry much weight...

[redacted]

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 18 May 2020 - 11:07 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

DAEDALOS513, on 18 May 2020 - 01:31 PM, said:

I think you missed the point of our conversation..

You've forgotten what you've said, haven't you? It's ok. That happens when people can't make valid points for their poor decisions.

If you'd like, I suggest refreshing the point you made about not worrying about match quality 'cause new players shouldn't expect to win at all, at the same time forgetting that the said new players are being forced into a match with YOUR group. Is the point clear?

[Excessive Paranoia]

DAEDALOS513, on 18 May 2020 - 06:24 PM, said:

[redacted - quote cleanup]

So if I'm reading this right, I think you're trying to make the implication that I'm doing to you what I accused you of doing in my previous post? An interesting approach, but easily debunked...

1: I am arguing for a return to a more balanced gaming situation, unlike you who is arguing for the new status quo to remain in place despite is horribly unbalanced results.

2: I have been pretty careful to support my statements with at the very least anecdotal evidence and an analysis of that evidence, and in many cases I've been able to include much more concrete evidence. Additionally, much of what I've been saying can be corroborated by many people in this thread.

3: While I might be vociferous, I'm hardly being aggressive and disparaging, at least not that I've been able to tell (please correct me if I'm wrong). In fact, even this last post was only me trying to get you to realize that Horseman's post had merit based on your behavior in this thread and then offering you a chance to discredit that statement by offering up more than some half-baked one-liner to explain your position.

As you can hopefully see, I'm doing almost exactly the opposite, but somehow I fully expect you to miss this fact, or at least ignore it...

That said, I'd like to thank you for confirming my previous statement even when given a golden opportunity to prove it wrong. In doing so, you've lent credence both to what I said and Horseman's comment prior to that. I don't know if you don't know how debate is supposed to work, or just don't care, but you're not likely to win anyone over with the adult equivalents of "I know you are, but what am I?" and "Nuh Uhhh!... You're wrong!"

Anyway, we'll be here if you've actually got anything constructive to add to the discussion, but somehow I doubt that's going to happen at this point...

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 18 May 2020 - 11:09 PM.

[Excessive Paranoia]

Tried a few more matches today.. There was one that actually went 12-8 and another that went 12-5, but the other 7ish were all 12-4 or worse.

Still looking for that "nearly the same as before" match quality...

Edited by Excessive Paranoia, 18 May 2020 - 10:12 PM.

[Ekson Valdez]

@Everyone, please stay away from personal attacks and focus on constructive discussion.

[Knight Captain Morgan]

Excessive Paranoia, on 18 May 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

Tried a few more matches today.. There was one that actually went 12-8 and another that went 12-5, but the other 7ish were all 12-4 or worse.

Still looking for that "nearly the same as before" match quality...

that's way more tries than me. Logic told me what to expect and it only took 1 match to confirm (0-12). Uninstalled, been looking for a replacement game since. Tried MW5 on the xbox game pass, but missions are way to repetitive.

3%