1580 replies to this topic

[DAEDALOS513]

Magic Pain Glove, on 21 May 2020 - 09:58 AM, said:

And once again you are disregarding OBSERVABLE stream vods , disregarding OBSERVABLE silly leaderboard WLR's and any other OBSERVABLE stat metric .

DAEDALOS513 what dont you disregard one might ask ? "WELL Some people say they like the change . Whoop-dee-doo. "

Other people said they dont like it and now what ? Implying subjective experience of a PORTION of players trumps OBSERVABLE OBJECTIVE METRICS that we can now see is either malicious , misleading or straight up dumb .



And it appears once again ... No wonder you have an easy time disregarding observable match outcomes . But at that point its irrelevant to debate dont you think ? Since every match is a good match ? No one plays to win , and people dont mind loosing . Like I said previously convince all other people that 2 minute matches are a fun learning experience , convince streamers and small groups who previously stopped doing groups and fled to solo queue syncdrops after getting stomped that they should keep getting ROLFSTOMPED and we'r golden. No adverse effects will occur . People will stomp , others will get happily stomped by them and playerbas will keep rising.

When you tell people to "Improve" you trying to downplay the downsides of the current soup queue and place the blame on personal aspects/skills of individual players. Which is why mentioned the example of Proton and his last stream . Once again , cleverly you avoided debating , rewatching the stream or mentioning anything about it. Because it destroys this "Improve" argument . Since you would have trouble saying "Improve" to a player like him and a bunch of other players that stated simmilar things in this thread .

Wow , this is the closest you got to admitting that it's actually is a lot more difficult for solo players , good. I am sure they will get a ton more experience in those nice and fast 2 minute "tougher" matches. A lot of experience can be gained in stomps where they get deleted before they get to fire twice I agree. The best thing about it is now T5's can also enjoy that same COMPETITIVE 2 MINUTE LEARNING EXPERIENCE as well , good times.

Sigh... you sound really upset (passionate?) and I'm not sure why ppl can't have a conversation without taking it personal (yes, when you call someone dumb you are taking it personal).. anyway..

I only brought up the fact that many players agree with me because you wanted proof.. if you want to disregard them like you accuse me of doing, be my guest.. be a hippocrit.

If I were to look at your vods or hand picked screen shots or whatever, it would prove nothing because I already admit high end players grouping up would carry a match.. never said they wouldn't. This isn't rocket science. What I am saying is that there is enough variety in matches that I won't run into the same 4man 2 games in a row.. so stomps are not as big an issue as some make it out to be. What I am also saying is, like it or not, soup was a needed change for where the game stands now and that PGI must continue to tweak it. To not be able to drop with friends in a team-based game was stinkin ridiculous.

Yes, at this stage of MWO's life (where we're lucky enough to still have this game around) and the unortthodox way that teams are put together, winning in the literal sense doesn't mean much (and thus w/l ratios mean nothing, sorry for your luck stat-addicts). Gone are the grand old days where dropping group queue usually meant a glorious unit vs unit battle; I still get a rush thinking about those matches.. MJ12 VS BMMU or KCOM. ahhh.. Face it, those days are over (for now?) and we have to adjust.. We all have to shift our thinking of what it is it that makes a match a win. For me it's creating a fun build (not a copy and paste meta build, wink wink) and actually have it contribute in a match (solo or with a friend).. I also call it a win if I end up in the top 3 in damage or kmds. Mostly, what I call a big win, is if I call a strat and the team follows it.. I feel such pride and gratification, win or lose, and we're left with a positive feeling even affter a loss. Now what makes a 'win' will vary from player to player but thinking a literal win means anything in this environment.. your foolin yourself. Everyone has to decide what will make the match a 'win' for themselves.

Something that would help solo'ers immensely is to join a unit. Make friends and share knowledge.

PS. You exagerate alot. I don't respond to obvious exagerations.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 21 May 2020 - 01:59 PM.

[Nearly Dead]

I wish I knew what PGI was doing. I see another event, plus a sale. Is it an effort to revive the game by paying for development time and resources needed to make hash queue better, or to make the last dollar off the last MechWarrior before the lights go out.

[Anomalocaris]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 May 2020 - 01:54 PM, said:

Now what makes a 'win' will vary from player to player but thinking a literal win means anything in this environment.. your foolin yourself. Everyone has to decide what will make the match a 'win' for themselves.

Something that would help solo'ers immensely is to join a unit. Make friends and share knowledge.

Daedalos, buddy, you gotta read what you write. If what makes a win varies from player to player, then its subjective and not for you to decide. But then you go and say a literal win doesn't mean anything and you'd be foolish to think so, clearly contradicting your first statement. And then you go back to saying that everyone needs to decide what a win is for themselves. That's an amazing string of contradictions crammed into very few words.

Hint: A win for me is a win. I might feel I didn't contribute as much as I should have, but its still a win. Trying to console myself after a loss that it was my teammates, or the 4 man elite group on the other team, doesn't make me feel better. Which is why this merge is so screwed up. Writing off a loss because PGI allowed someone to stack the deck is not fun!

And quit pushing units on people. For god's sake man, people didn't want to be part of units for a reason in the first place. I dropped with MJ12 plenty. I stopped responding to your group invites years ago because it bored me. You're all fine people and I'm sure you're a scintillating conversationalist too, but I don't care to play in a group with you, or anyone. Welcome to most of the player base. Some of us have plenty (too many?) of friends IRL, and just want to drop in a match and shoot robots without worrying about getting stomped because someone else dropped a group.

Nearly Dead, on 21 May 2020 - 02:01 PM, said:

I wish I knew what PGI was doing. I see another event, plus a sale. Is it an effort to revive the game by paying for development time and resources needed to make hash queue better, or to make the last dollar off the last MechWarrior before the lights go out.

They're just trying to spike player numbers to make this merge look good, but people will figure it out soon enough. Maybe they're preparing to raise some investment and need to make things look better in the short term. MW5 hasn't done all that well, and they're probably burning through the upfront money from the Epic sellout.

[DAEDALOS513]

Anomalocaris, on 21 May 2020 - 02:09 PM, said:

Daedalos, buddy, you gotta read what you write. If what makes a win varies from player to player, then its subjective and not for you to decide. But then you go and say a literal win doesn't mean anything and you'd be foolish to think so, clearly contradicting your first statement. And then you go back to saying that everyone needs to decide what a win is for themselves. That's an amazing string of contradictions crammed into very few words.

Hint: A win for me is a win. I might feel I didn't contribute as much as I should have, but its still a win. Trying to console myself after a loss that it was my teammates, or the 4 man elite group on the other team, doesn't make me feel better. Which is why this merge is so screwed up. Writing off a loss because PGI allowed someone to stack the deck is not fun!

And quit pushing units on people. For god's sake man, people didn't want to be part of units for a reason in the first place. I dropped with MJ12 plenty. I stopped responding to your group invites years ago because it bored me. You're all fine people and I'm sure you're a scintillating conversationalist too, but I don't care to play in a group with you, or anyone. Welcome to most of the player base. Some of us have plenty (too many?) of friends IRL, and just want to drop in a match and shoot robots without worrying about getting stomped because someone else dropped a group.



They're just trying to spike player numbers to make this merge look good, but people will figure it out soon enough. Maybe they're preparing to raise some investment and need to make things look better in the short term. MW5 hasn't done all that well, and they're probably burning through the upfront money from the Epic sellout.

Wow, you're quick to the draw.. maybe too quick. You should let my words sink in more.. let em wash over you like a stream of clag. What I said was players need to revise what they think is a win other than in the literal sense. For you (and probably many others), a win is a win is a win. I can see that you are one of those black or white people... but In this environment with the way teams are matched up, wins don't really mean a lot when you don't know if the match up was fair.. You can enjoy your wins all you want but PGI should make the appropriate tweaks to the mm to give them some meaning. For now, MWO is about enjoying piloting your stompy robots and playing with friends.. nothin wrong with that. But you do you..

As far as joining units.. guess what, you can join a unit and still drop solo.. there is no real commitment when you join, only benefits. You can hit up their website or discord and look up some of the builds, strats, etc that they've amassed and ask for advice. You can even use the in-game ui chat for on the spot advice. Trust me, it will open up your world and yep, you can still drop solo... and if you actually played the game you would see it isn't a stompfest like some say it is.

Events and generally giving players a reason to grind is par for the course in any succesfull game. The fact that you think PGI is trying to artificially spike numbers is silly.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 21 May 2020 - 03:37 PM.

[Anomalocaris]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 May 2020 - 02:28 PM, said:

Wow, you're quick to the draw.. maybe too quick . A win is a win is a win huh? I can see that you are one of those black or white people... what I said is players need to revise what they think is a win other than in the literal sense. In this environment with the way teams are matched up, wins don't really mean a lot when you don't know if the match up was fair or not.. You can enjoy your wins all you want but you must know that half the time it was likely due to unfair matchmaking. This is where PGI has to step in and tweak the mm to give wins some meaning. For now, MWO is about enjoying piloting your stompy robots and playing with friends.. nothin wrong with that. But you do you..

Events and generally giving players a reason to grind is par for the course in any succesfull game. The fact that you think PGI is trying to artificially spike numbers is silly.

lol, so you admit the matchmaking is completely unfair, moreso since the merge, but you think its good for the game. If someone has to revise their definition of a win to something other than....a win, then either they or the game are a loser.

This merge will kill the game faster. Hell want to put a little friendly wager on it? We can set some player level numbers based on steam charts 3 months out. Over/under?

As for PGI trying to spike numbers, of course they are. 3 straight events with massive payouts. Find me the last time they did 3 major events in 3 weeks? The very fact that they were only running 1 every 2 weeks before the merge puts the lie to the idea that this is normal.

I'm still thinking they're looking at trying to raise money. Going all in for a short term player spike that will accelerate losses in the long term with no hope of generating enough cash flow to make MWO profitable is completely illogical otherwise. Even if they thought they would boost player numbers by 10% it doesn't make sense

[Kroete]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 May 2020 - 01:54 PM, said:

Something that would help solo'ers immensely is to join a unit.

This may sound strange for you, but some, if not most, play solo because they dont want to join a unit.
Asking them to join a groups lets you look a little trumpish ...

[East Indy]

The awesome-4-man factor isn't significant because there simply aren't enough playing, anymore or otherwise.

By far the biggest factor I've seen is the poor placed low-skill/goof group or cumulatively skill-mismatched players. The other issue is pressure to up-ton.

My K/D is down 20%; matchscore down about 5%, probably more because I've been dropping heavier. W/L, though, is up 40%. I'm 100% solo. Nuts.

[DAEDALOS513]

Kroete, on 21 May 2020 - 04:12 PM, said:

This may sound strange for you, but some, if not most, play solo because they dont want to join a unit.
Asking them to join a groups lets you look a little trumpish ...

I know it can be intimidating at first.. especially if you are shy.. but it really isn't a big deal. You don't even have to use comms.. units are just happy to bolster their numbers and you get to use their resources (websites, discord, ingame chat) and maybe you can even contribute a bit.

What PGI should have done long go is create events catered to units.. any other game with units does this.. it would give more purpose and reason to being in one.. something that clan warfare was supposed to do but never really accomplished.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 22 May 2020 - 01:05 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Anomalocaris, on 21 May 2020 - 03:43 PM, said:

lol, so you admit the matchmaking is completely unfair, moreso since the merge, but you think its good for the game. If someone has to revise their definition of a win to something other than....a win, then either they or the game are a loser.

This merge will kill the game faster. Hell want to put a little friendly wager on it? We can set some player level numbers based on steam charts 3 months out. Over/under?

As for PGI trying to spike numbers, of course they are. 3 straight events with massive payouts. Find me the last time they did 3 major events in 3 weeks? The very fact that they were only running 1 every 2 weeks before the merge puts the lie to the idea that this is normal.

I'm still thinking they're looking at trying to raise money. Going all in for a short term player spike that will accelerate losses in the long term with no hope of generating enough cash flow to make MWO profitable is completely illogical otherwise. Even if they thought they would boost player numbers by 10% it doesn't make sense

MM isn't unfair, it's just not reliable.. one match might be fair.. the next unfair.. no one really knows for sure because of the metrics mm is working under. This is why i hesitate to be proud of most wins in the literal sense. I guess a good win would be one where the end result was 12-7 or more..

If I had a nickel for every time someone said some change would kill the game.. or that they were going for a short term gain..

Two events this month, one event in april.. two in March.. two in february.. three in January.. they've been pretty consistent all along actually.. besides we're all quarantined at home and you're criticizing PGI for giving us something to grind? Trying to come up with devious reasons why PGI would be so gracious? Anything to help your cause i guess..

PS. they should add unit-centric events to the rotation.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 22 May 2020 - 07:27 AM.

[50 50]

Think we just need a simple Pro's and Con's list from everyone and leave it at that.
Chuck some ice on the conversation guys.

My overall take on it:

Pro:
+ Allows any players to create a group and play (Given low population).
+ Wait time improvements.

Con:
- Without changes to the match maker and PSR we see stacked teams buggering it up for everyone.
- Without changes to the match maker and weight class restrictions we see stacked teams buggering it up for everyone.


Also, please don't confuse what units, groups or teams mean.

[Anomalocaris]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 May 2020 - 04:34 PM, said:

Two events this month, one event in april.. two in March.. two in february.. three in January.. they've been pretty consistent all along actually.. besides we're all quarantined at home and you're criticizing PGI for giving us something to grind? Trying to come up with devious reasons why PGI would be so gracious? Anything to help your cause i guess..

Sigh, fact challenged again. Double XP on May 1st. Gday Mate event May 8th. 7 Sins this week.....

not hard to check, maybe don't trust your memory so much....

[DAEDALOS513]

Anomalocaris, on 21 May 2020 - 04:52 PM, said:

Sigh, fact challenged again. Double XP on May 1st. Gday Mate event May 8th. 7 Sins this week.....

not hard to check, maybe don't trust your memory so much....

Wow i guess you got me there.. not. I was going by the announcement dates in the forums.. the double XP event was announced April 30th so I threw it in with April.. so overall, they are still spaced out as I stated... but hey if you think 3 events in one month is fishy.. what's your conspiracy theory as to why they had 3 events in January (or if we go by your system, 3 in Feb)? Or anytime before that?

Now you got me sinking to your level.. nit-picking every detail.. i feel beneath myself.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 22 May 2020 - 01:06 PM.

[Brauer]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 May 2020 - 05:05 PM, said:

Wow you got me there.. I was going by the announcement dates in the forums.. the double XP event was announced April 30th so I threw it in with April.. so overall, they are still spaced out as I stated... but hey if you think 3 events in one month is fishy.. what's your conspiracy theory as to why they had 3 events in January (or if we go by your system, 3 in Feb)? Or anytime before that?

Now you got me sinking to your level.. nit-picking every detail.. i feel beneath myself.

One significant event a week is definitely a higher rate than is typical. Usually we get an event every other week with the occasional two-stage loot bag event.

EDIT: It also seems reasonable to consider the event starting April 30th as a part of this trend because iirc the queues merged on April 30th.

Edited by Brauer, 21 May 2020 - 07:12 PM.

[Laser Kiwi]

DAEDALOS513, on 20 May 2020 - 11:13 AM, said:

So we're back to personal opinion I guess.. i was yelled at for doing that before you see.. for me stomps are about the same as old solo queue was.. ie. the difference isn't statistically significant.

Personal opinion, its all we really have because people weren't really doing a proper pre change stomp count. My opinion, the stomp level is generally the same as it was before. And as for groups, only a known or performing (ie leaderboard) group makes a difference.

The biggest drawback is really this. Groups dropping with sync drops and the matchmaker failing to sort them out, as it has always done. There is a bias when 4 drop and 2 other sync drop because that guarantees 4 people on one team and probably 1 or 2 more. So the desire to play in the same game as sync droppers with skill actually magnifies this effect somewhat. I wonder if the bucket for each game fills one team and then the other, don't know but if we had an elo the game could do a 10 second reshuffle and force the 4 man to carry harder than they already do, if the 4 man has any skill......

It's inadequate, but it always has been since i've been around.

Edited by Laser Kiwi, 21 May 2020 - 07:46 PM.

[Hausmarder]

Finally I can play with a friend without wainting forever to find a game ! Best move ever PGI ! I've been waiting for this (and pretty much stop playing) for about a year.

I personnally don't think games are more one-sided than before, but I don't care about competition.

A wise guy said one day :
You win some, lose some, all the same to me
The pleasure is to play, makes no difference what you say

[Knight Captain Morgan]

There are reasons the old group que population eventually died off and wait times went up while solo que continued to have drops. Those reasons have not been addressed, merely transferred to the new group que. Eventually, the same will happen, only now, there is no more solo que with which to continue enjoying drops.

[FRAGTAST1C]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 May 2020 - 04:34 PM, said:

Two events this month, one event in april.. two in March.. two in february.. three in January.. they've been pretty consistent all along actually.. besides we're all quarantined at home and you're criticizing PGI for giving us something to grind? Trying to come up with devious reasons why PGI would be so gracious? Anything to help your cause i guess..

PS. they should add unit-centric events to the rotation.

You can't be serious. PGI is running events 'cause without it, many people would not even bother playing it. It's nothing about being gracious. Do you know when they were gracious? When they handed out the Quarantine for free. That was gracious and people thanked them for it. Running events isn't gracious. Every MP-centric game runs events to retain the players.

If anything, the events have been stretched and stretched to create an illusion that there are lots of events when just a few months ago, there were events every week.

[Polish Hammer]

I agree. We were consistently rolling other higher tier player "groups" that weren't cooperating with a R-RN potato squad (don't believe we are potatoes? check Jarl's list of us) that was strictly cooperating AND communicating.
We also were able to instill some spirit of camaraderie and basic communications in some 'C''s and other qp players.
And - as a cherry on top - we have recruited at least four (and we are small unit) players that didn't played since beta or for more than six months, including one kinda high profile twitch streamer.
Why? Because when we knew who is in the group we could coordinate our builds (spotter, lurmer, two bodyguards i.e.) and had a reason to talk, we were helping others in our drop to focus fire. If this goes the way it is going - maybe Piranha will resurrect this game....

[Nearly Dead]

I just finished a string of games this morning into early afternoon EST.

L 5-12 No comms
L 5-12 No comms
W 12-6 Voice comms
L 5-12 No comms
L 6-11 No comms
W 12-4 Voice comms
W 12-4 Voice comms
W 12-5 Voice comms
W 12-6 Voice comms
W 12-10 No comms
W 10-2 Voice comms

Note the correlation between teamwide voice communications and win/loss ratio. We did not lose a single game where we were communicating focus fire and movements. Note, I did not drop with a group and don't have any outside comm software, so in some of the losses there might have been coordination going on, but I and the rest of the solo players were not part of it.

[Anomalocaris]

DAEDALOS513, on 21 May 2020 - 05:05 PM, said:

Wow you got me there.. I was going by the announcement dates in the forums.. the double XP event was announced April 30th so I threw it in with April.. so overall, they are still spaced out as I stated... but hey if you think 3 events in one month is fishy.. what's your conspiracy theory as to why they had 3 events in January (or if we go by your system, 3 in Feb)? Or anytime before that?

Now you got me sinking to your level.. nit-picking every detail.. i feel beneath myself.

Being detail oriented is not sinking. You'd do well to pay more attention, especially to facts given your performance on this topic. Going through life knowing so many things that just aren't so, used to be an evolutionary dead end, but modern society is so advanced that we now protect people like you from their own ignorance.

Don't worry, looks like you'll get to keep your queue at least for a couple months till it tanks the population. Then you can quit again when you can't get group drops.

Not sure why I bother anymore, the number of people stating they "don't care about winning" seems to keep increasing. I just need to find a way to capitalize on that attitude in the real world and make some money off it. Companies pay me to help them beat their competition, but clearly there's a much larger market of people who don't care about winning - I should target them. And I'll bet they have lots more money to spend than those who want to win.....