1579 replies to this topic

[DAEDALOS513]

Anomalocaris, on 28 April 2020 - 09:58 AM, said:

I don't mind an armor increase in general, across the board. All the bitching about TTK is a little much IMO over the years, but if people really think its an issue, doubling armor (and doubling ammo counts as well) would be an easy start. That said, I don't support varying it by tier or mech class.

Here's why. Assuming you don't change damage numbers for weapons, doubling armor on _most_ lights (excluding urbie, WLF, etc.) doesn't do much to prevent you from getting ganked by a big pinpoint weapon. A typical 30-ton or less light might get 25-30 armor per side torso. With 50+ pt alpha's out there, even doubling that doesn't help you all that much. Yes you'll be able to shrug off an ATM barrage better, and laser splash will take longer to whittle you down. But when you compare that to the impact of doubling an annie's armor.....now we're talking about adding another 100 pts of armor to the side torso. That's an additional 2 more pinpoint alphas that it will take to open it up. You have to look at the relationship of damage values to absolute armor values. Assaults would already benefit more. No need to tilt it even further in their favor.

Lights should feel like lights.. they should scout at the start of the match, get a read on the enemy positioning/loadouts.. maybe hit at range or squirrel or engage other lights.. until enemy mechs are hurt or open.. they should NOT be charging into a fresh enemy, putting in their damage and running away barely touched. This should only be done by the ultra-elite of the game that have great situational awareness and perfect timing.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 28 April 2020 - 10:10 AM.

[I Come In Peace]

Another way to predict what will happen is to look at FW which is one public queue. How is FW working out for everyone?

Pretty sure FW is not popular because there is no separation between groups and singles. So we'll likely see the same thing happen with this change in the public queue.

Why don't group queuer's play FW where they can stomp on each other? Does slumming make you feel better about yourself?

[Anomalocaris]

DAEDALOS513, on 28 April 2020 - 10:08 AM, said:

Lights should feel like lights.. they should scout at the start of the match, get a read on the enemy positioning/loadouts.. maybe hit at range or squirrel or engage other lights.. until enemy mechs are hurt or open.. they should NOT be charging into a fresh enemy, putting in their damage and running away barely touched. This should only be done by the ultra-elite of the game that have great situational awareness and perfect timing.

But that won't work without massive changes to the game. The rewards for scouting, flanking, objective capture, etc. are paltry. Without boosting those (I like how WoT gives you spotting damage = to the damage inflicted on the target you're spotting and it's worth about as much in match score, ranking, etc. as actual damage) light players will be on the short end of the stick in terms of game economy, their match scores will suck which will generate salt from their teammates, etc.

Yeah, lights shouldn't have the combat capacity of assaults, but the way the game is structured, PGI had to make them viable or face the idea of virtually no one playing them.

[General Solo]

I Come In Peace, on 28 April 2020 - 10:13 AM, said:

Another way to predict what will happen is to look at FW which is one public queue. How is FW working out for everyone?

Pretty sure FW is not popular because there is no separation between groups and singles. So we'll likely see the same thing happen with this change in the public queue.

Why don't group queuer's play FW where they can stomp on each other? Does slumming make you feel better about yourself?

But groups focus fire torso twist etc, pugs not so much

[DAEDALOS513]

Anomalocaris, on 28 April 2020 - 10:19 AM, said:

But that won't work without massive changes to the game. The rewards for scouting, flanking, objective capture, etc. are paltry. Without boosting those (I like how WoT gives you spotting damage = to the damage inflicted on the target you're spotting and it's worth about as much in match score, ranking, etc. as actual damage) light players will be on the short end of the stick in terms of game economy, their match scores will suck which will generate salt from their teammates, etc.

Yeah, lights shouldn't have the combat capacity of assaults, but the way the game is structured, PGI had to make them viable or face the idea of virtually no one playing them.

Good points.. PGI SHOULD boost rewards for only light pilots.. Also, don't forget that light mechs are much cheaper than heavier ones.. so it kinda makes sense that their rewards should not be as high.. unless they contribute alot.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 28 April 2020 - 10:27 AM.

[Alreech]

Sniper09121986, on 28 April 2020 - 02:02 AM, said:

Perhaps with that spell lifted it would be for the free market to sort things out and probably for someone else to provide more-than-minimally-viable product... in a decade or so.

The Mechwarrior License is owned by Microsoft, and i doesn't look like they want to produce Mechwarrior Games any time soon.

And to be honest, MWO and MW5 have a lot of content that can be used in Mods if PGI goes down.

[Alreech]

Anomalocaris, on 28 April 2020 - 10:19 AM, said:

Yeah, lights shouldn't have the combat capacity of assaults, but the way the game is structured, PGI had to make them viable or face the idea of virtually no one playing them.

Loosing a light Mech is only a problem if you can't spawn afterwards in a new Mech...

3 Mechs, 165 tons:
You can use 3x 55 tons.
If you want to pilot a 100 ton assault that left you 65 tons = 30 / 35 or 20/45.

[Dirt Devil1]

Just did a match on mining collective, other team had four assaults and we had only one. Not every balanced. Lost 12 to 5 or 7.

[Sniper09121986]

Punkarelli, on 28 April 2020 - 09:36 AM, said:

Also does this throw PSR out the window?

My understanding is that the solos will still be matched by PSR, but the groups... The only tool for matchmaking premade groups is Solaris 7 ELO for doubles, but nobody said anything about that. I guess that groups will simply be thrown in the first match that comes along regardless of who makes up the group. Guess how that worked out before matchmaking and separate queues...

Alreech, on 28 April 2020 - 10:28 AM, said:

The Mechwarrior License is owned by Microsoft, and i doesn't look like they want to produce Mechwarrior Games any time soon.

And to be honest, MWO and MW5 have a lot of content that can be used in Mods if PGI goes down.

The craziest thing in all this is that PGI has just recently purchased an MW licence extension for five more years. If THIS is the way they go about MWO already, then I fail to see the rationale behind that decision since all the DLC's for MW5 are obviously not going to sell that long.

[Horseman]

Anomalocaris, on 28 April 2020 - 09:58 AM, said:

I don't mind an armor increase in general, across the board. All the bitching about TTK is a little much IMO over the years, but if people really think its an issue, doubling armor (and doubling ammo counts as well) would be an easy start. That said, I don't support varying it by tier or mech class.

The armor has already been doubled from TT values. And the bitching didn't stop.

DAEDALOS513, on 28 April 2020 - 09:48 AM, said:

One thing I would like PGI to implement next.. an increase in armour values across the board, weighed more heavily for newer players, and weighed more heavily towards the bigger mechs. This would decrease TTK and be more forgiving against getting one-shot killed or cored.

First, adding survivability increases TTK.
Second, sorry mate but that was hashed out multiple times over. The consensus is that more survival would heavily benefit competitive players over newbies.

[Anomalocaris]

So I'm just watching Y O N D U 's stream

He and 3 guys from CSPS were dropping in a 4 man. The lifetime average match score for the other 3 was about 300 and Yondu is a 400+ AMS player. They dropped Vulcans, Uziels, and now JM6-DDs with 5xAC2 builds. Have not come close to using all their tonnage yet, nor are they playing any meta builds.

Right now they're 5-1 in 6 matches (lost an Uziel match I believe) and its been EZ mode most times. Enemies getting CT cored in seconds when the group bothers to focus, but mostly its just 4 better than average players (Yondu being much better) farming solos.

Too early to say I told you so, but I suspect we'll see a lot of quality streamers making a point today and it won't be pretty.

[DAEDALOS513]

Horseman, on 28 April 2020 - 10:52 AM, said:

The armor has already been doubled from TT values. And the bitching didn't stop.
First, adding survivability increases TTK.
Second, sorry mate but that was hashed out multiple times over. The consensus is that more survival would heavily benefit competitive players over newbies.

You can't compare this game to TT.. not sure why people still insist on doing so.. the similarities end with the name.

Yes, and adding armour adds to survivability..

Increasing armour also is more forgiving as it would decrease one-shot kills and one-shot getting cored.. on top of that, until you reach tier 1, you are even more heavily armoured than tier 1's..

It's not perfect but it's an easy step in the right direction, no?

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 28 April 2020 - 11:17 AM.

[Z Paradox]

so... comments like "This is bad idea" is Ok, and comments like "when was last good idea" is bad?

LOL


As per the Code of Conduct, it is forbidden to purposefully cause disturbances in forum threads, such as picking fights, making nonconstructive or off-topic responses, or insulting other players/staff. Your post has been moderated.

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Regards,

[Anomalocaris]

Z Paradox, on 28 April 2020 - 11:14 AM, said:

so... comments like "This is bad idea" is Ok, and comments like "when was last good idea" is bad?

LOL


As per the Code of Conduct, it is forbidden to purposefully cause disturbances in forum threads, such as picking fights, making nonconstructive or off-topic responses, or insulting other players/staff. Your post has been moderated.

Please help us make the forums a positive experience by contributing to discussions in a constructive way.

Regards,

Thou shall not question the will of Paul...

[Zirconium Kaze]

While you guys are trying out new things I'd recommend allowing us to choose mechs from our drop decks during quick play. This way if you get a large open map that favors snipers, you can pick your one sniper/scout/counter mech from your deck instead of being stuck with the fit of one mech and being at an disadvantage. This would help balance things for the better than any mechanic change. The freedom of choice to choose what one will go into a match with, knowing what the map is, will naturally bring balance upon itself.


However, as things stand, if you go in with a srm build and solaris lost to polar highlands during the vote.... welp. By allowing us to go in with a drop deck instead, the above example could choose a mech more suited for the map.

[Spare Knight]

It appears that Tier ranking is thrown out the window. I am seeing Tier 1 players and Cadets in the same matches. I am also seeing top players like Sean Lang on the In Game Comms and drop calling matches. This part is a win for me, as I get to learn from the experience. Thanks to all you guys who are stepping in and drop calling. It is such a great thing for us noobs.

On the other hand, I had one match where my Kodiak was the only assault on our team and the opposing team had 5 assaults. They killed me first, but with some good drop calling, we still managed to put out a win. It was a good fight to the end.

[A Saint]

Well... Just finished round. No assaults in our team vs 7 enemy assaults. 3 of them was in premade group. Cyclop-S.
Lots of fun, ty. I think i better wait till the end of testing.

[Brauer]

DAEDALOS513, on 28 April 2020 - 11:06 AM, said:

You can't compare this game to TT.. not sure why people still insist on doing so.. the similarities end with the name.

Yes, and adding armour adds to survivability..

Increasing armour also is more forgiving as it would decrease one-shot kills and one-shot getting cored.. on top of that, until you reach tier 1, you are even more heavily armoured than tier 1's..

It's not perfect but it's an easy step in the right direction, no?

If you're allowing players from different tiers to play in the same match artificially inflating the effective HP of players based on tiers is quite unfair imo and does not encourage learning as it provides players with an artificial advantage.

Inflating armor and structure values will benefit higher skill players because it gives them more time to influence a match. Sure it will give less capable players more time to run around in a match, but in reality it will make them less competitive, and it will actually encourage bad habits by not punishing them as quickly and decisively.

I personally think the armor vs. firepower balance isn't too bad at the moment. I largely enjoy the match-ups that exist between lights, mediums, heavies, and assaults right now. I bet there could be some tweaks here and there, but I think making it much harder to one-shot lights will lead to less satisfying balance overall. I could see, for example, adding some agility to underperforming mechs to help make them more survivable.

What I'd like to see is the removal of the ST loss heat spike, and rebalancing some weapons (like making SPL on both sides more relevant, making streaks more evenly powerful across the board rather than just being insta-death for lights, nerfing lock-ons a bit, maybe balancing some ineffective weapons like RAC5, LBX5, AC20s so they have more of a niche, reducing the heat of LAMS so that it ever makes sense to bring it, etc.).

[Mister Smile]

A Saint, on 28 April 2020 - 12:00 PM, said:

Well... Just finished round. No assaults in our team vs 7 enemy assaults. 3 of them was in premade group. Cyclop-S.
Lots of fun, ty. I think i better wait till the end of testing.

Matchmaking is now better than evar!!!!!!

[Cryzak]

4 Man groups are too much, 2-3 are way to go for balance.