76 replies to this topic

[Nearly Dead]

Now that they tightened up what tiers can drop against other tiers it is better. Still the odd stomp but honestly that was always going to happen and while it is quicker and more violent now than before, there are enough close/good games to make it worth playing.

I am guardedly optimistic about what else they can do when the data is in at the end of the 4 week trial. I just hope they don't mess up and do something off the wall based on preconceived ideas about what the game/players need.

I just hope they dump the tier system for building matches and substitute a rolling average of team score or something that is not upward biased.

[Knight Captain Morgan]

Nearly Dead, on 05 May 2020 - 03:00 PM, said:

I just hope they don't mess up and do something off the wall based on preconceived ideas about what the game/players need.

a little hint, this isn't a 4 week trial, it is an off the wall idea based on what Russ thinks people need. It was never temporary and is only being called a trial to slow the exodus of the seals from the clubbing grounds.

[Asylum Choir]

Horseman, on 02 May 2020 - 08:13 AM, said:

Small correction here: The actual "pros" were the ones warning that merging the queues is a bad idea unless the matchmaker is fixed.
The "casuals" and various diletantes were the ones pushing aggressively in favor of the change in the name of "it can't get worse than it already is" and "we don't care if we lose".

Had the matchmaker had been working properly from the get-go, there would have been no issue with the merge because top-tier players would have been facing (and playing with) others on their level anyway.

WOT has groups and solos mixed together.
It has bad players put against insanely great players.
I could count on one hand in the last ten years posts I've seen crying about sols vs groups.
This "community" has some of the most toxic solos I have ever seen.
Team based game, best played with others in a team. Advertised as such.
Players join, refuse to get on TS/Discord etc, refuse to join a unit, refuse to team work.
Get smashed.
complain, blame teamwork and premades for getting smashed.
Issue lies with solo player, not premades.
Solos cry over and over until solo Q gets made. Solo Q in a multiplayer team based game...
Casual players who want to drop with a couple of mates can't. As the more serious group players concentrated in one area.

The issue is with the players. Maybe the modern gamer is getting less socially adept I don't know. I managed in my time to group up, join units and get on TS and enjoy the game immensley, and I have asperger's syndrome.
If I can manage that, why can't the super solos?

[Negat1ve Nancy]

Bad groups return

[Anomalocaris]

Asylum Choir, on 06 May 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

WOT has groups and solos mixed together.
It has bad players put against insanely great players.
I could count on one hand in the last ten years posts I've seen crying about sols vs groups.
This "community" has some of the most toxic solos I have ever seen.
Team based game, best played with others in a team. Advertised as such.
Players join, refuse to get on TS/Discord etc, refuse to join a unit, refuse to team work.
Get smashed.
complain, blame teamwork and premades for getting smashed.
Issue lies with solo player, not premades.
Solos cry over and over until solo Q gets made. Solo Q in a multiplayer team based game...
Casual players who want to drop with a couple of mates can't. As the more serious group players concentrated in one area.

The issue is with the players. Maybe the modern gamer is getting less socially adept I don't know. I managed in my time to group up, join units and get on TS and enjoy the game immensley, and I have asperger's syndrome.
If I can manage that, why can't the super solos?

Did you really try and compare WoT to MWO? You realize of course that's a specious comparison, even if it suits your world view. The differences are myriad. 1) Maximum platoon size is 3 out of 15 players. 2) Matchmaking is done by vehicle strength. While you can tweak certain consumables and rank up your crew, each vehicle pretty much has only 1 or 2 useful configurations, not the infinite variety of good and bad builds available in MWO 3) The population size of WoT is several orders of magnitude larger than MWO. North America is one of WoT's smallest markets and it sees 100k unique users/week. Europe and Russia see 10x that or more.

You try to blame people who want to drop solo because they're not "playing the game right" according to you. Yet solo queue has been the biggest queue for years. And frankly, this game would never have existed to this day without it. So quit imposing your worldview on others. You wanted to play in groups. Bully for you. But people like you just aren't numerous enough, so now you tell solos to buck up and play with you even though they lobbied to not do so years ago. In fact, Russ even said that letting those solos willing to play groups opt-in to group queue wouldn't work because not enough of them would (because they didn't want to), so now you're forcing those same people to play group anyways. Not hard to figure out how well that will work out in the long run.

[Brain Cancer]

Warning incoming Humble Dexterer, on 03 May 2020 - 07:34 AM, said:

In just about any similar MMO I played before, you have to go through a tree branch of (bad and good) vehicules to reach the top performing end-game ones, and it's the tier of the vehicule you're using that decides the tier level of the matches you're fighting.

In MWO, it's a bit more messy (ok it's mostly one big mess that was never fleshed out properly).

Attempting to force all 'Mechs into the same relative "tier" has been a fetish for PGI since the first Clantech units hit the field.

In the source, they'd be innately superior. In MWO, it's just an alternate set of weapons with only a precious few bits "balanced" by nerfs elsewhere.

All part of the plan to make sure everyone played together so they'd buy more robots.

[thievingmagpi]

Asylum Choir, on 06 May 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

WOT has groups and solos mixed together.
It has bad players put against insanely great players.
I could count on one hand in the last ten years posts I've seen crying about sols vs groups.
This "community" has some of the most toxic solos I have ever seen.
Team based game, best played with others in a team. Advertised as such.
Players join, refuse to get on TS/Discord etc, refuse to join a unit, refuse to team work.
Get smashed.
complain, blame teamwork and premades for getting smashed.
Issue lies with solo player, not premades.
Solos cry over and over until solo Q gets made. Solo Q in a multiplayer team based game...
Casual players who want to drop with a couple of mates can't. As the more serious group players concentrated in one area.

The issue is with the players. Maybe the modern gamer is getting less socially adept I don't know. I managed in my time to group up, join units and get on TS and enjoy the game immensley, and I have asperger's syndrome.
If I can manage that, why can't the super solos?

I guess I sort of agree.

I've seen some of the best players in this game do everything in their power to help guide players to victory and those players do everything in their power to rebuke that advice, and unfortunately just like in real life...stupid wins over skill, knowledge, hard work and experience.

Why don't people use comms?

I can't speak for everyone, but I know for sure a lot of people are tired of hearing some nobody in a terrible build say something like "NO! I DO what I LIKE!!" and then die first with a whopping 30 damage.

Edited by thievingmagpi, 06 May 2020 - 07:51 PM.

[Kotzi]

Asylum Choir, on 06 May 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

WOT has groups and solos mixed together.
It has bad players put against insanely great players.
I could count on one hand in the last ten years posts I've seen crying about sols vs groups.
This "community" has some of the most toxic solos I have ever seen.
Team based game, best played with others in a team. Advertised as such.
Players join, refuse to get on TS/Discord etc, refuse to join a unit, refuse to team work.
Get smashed.
complain, blame teamwork and premades for getting smashed.
Issue lies with solo player, not premades.
Solos cry over and over until solo Q gets made. Solo Q in a multiplayer team based game...
Casual players who want to drop with a couple of mates can't. As the more serious group players concentrated in one area.

The issue is with the players. Maybe the modern gamer is getting less socially adept I don't know. I managed in my time to group up, join units and get on TS and enjoy the game immensley, and I have asperger's syndrome.
If I can manage that, why can't the super solos?

Great conclusion. Majority wants solo que, groups cant find games, neglecting the real reason why for a moment, so its the Solo´s fault. Let me just phrase what you are trying to hide so eloquently. Dont care what you guys enjoy my amusement is more important.

Never played Solo Que that much, but i still can respect and understand people who just want to shoot some robots and have some fun without minding "competetiv" stuff. But yeah i guess there was no other mode for groups...

[Thorqemada]

Asylum Choir, on 06 May 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

WOT has groups and solos mixed together.
It has bad players put against insanely great players.
I could count on one hand in the last ten years posts I've seen crying about sols vs groups.
This "community" has some of the most toxic solos I have ever seen.
Team based game, best played with others in a team. Advertised as such.
Players join, refuse to get on TS/Discord etc, refuse to join a unit, refuse to team work.
Get smashed.
complain, blame teamwork and premades for getting smashed.
Issue lies with solo player, not premades.
Solos cry over and over until solo Q gets made. Solo Q in a multiplayer team based game...
Casual players who want to drop with a couple of mates can't. As the more serious group players concentrated in one area.

The issue is with the players. Maybe the modern gamer is getting less socially adept I don't know. I managed in my time to group up, join units and get on TS and enjoy the game immensley, and I have asperger's syndrome.
If I can manage that, why can't the super solos?

Mate (bcs Aussie Event), i am not angry at you, it is a honest expression of your opinion and that is much better than the ring around the rosy lipservice of diplomatic dishonesty that is so often to read, so i really do not damn you for that at all!

That said, from my p.o.v. it also shows a quite a sentiment of entitlement, as if people had an obligation to be at service for your convenince, to play the way you liked them to do.

None of the Players at all has an obligation to be at service for another Players entertainement!

There is only an understanding of giving and taking on a voluntary base for mutual Benefit.

Now, if one side feels the Benefits are not there while the other screams at them to be the Problem that is not the way to salvation.

And imho the MWO ship has sailed since they killed almost a half of their playerbase in 2 consectuive years each when releasing changes to the game that were motivated by reason but developed by insanity.

My motivation to play is at an all time low since Voting bcs Map favoritism and Mode ingorance (everything is skirmish).

Aside of that has GQ killed GQ itself taking a blind stand to the Problems, most of them well articulated years b4 the disaster finally struck, that were preventing it from thriving.
I wont bring up Detail here, you can search Forums, Videos etc. for yourself, or simply remember the time back then yourself.

You argue that People should spend much time to improve and organize, commit themself prety much in a hardcore way to the cause becoming MWO Pros, or at least Vets.

People grow up, the are no longer Schoolboys and Girls, have not infinite amounts of time at their disposal but very limited Windows of unsused time often on short notice, when they start to have families, start to have a career, have friends that leave the game but not the friendship etc.
This People will be the majority of your playerbase - MWO is not a Schoolkids game (but it could be a game of Generations).

Also the playstyle in Group Q is simply not attractive as reality proves, not even to the GQ Players or they had not left.

For me the reason not to Play GQ is that after dedicating years of gaming to schedules in several MMOrpgs i am simply not interested in that sort of gaming anymore!

Im a not interested in Combat where i do have an Obligation to adjust my Mechusage to the Variants dictated by the synergies of premade Grouplay!

I am not interested in Meta-Meching!

I am not interested in "Combat as a Choreography" where depending on the map you memorize in accordance to your Mech/Groupsetup where to go and where to aim - you could simply Code a macro for that and execute it on a keystroke - that is not entertaining!

There is more but i will end here, have fun!

Sincerely

Edited by Thorqemada, 07 May 2020 - 09:25 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Asylum Choir, on 06 May 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

Solos cry over and over until solo Q gets made. Solo Q in a multiplayer team based game...
Casual players who want to drop with a couple of mates can't. As the more serious group players concentrated in one area.

Solos who don't want to play against groups. Makes sense.

Casual groups who don't want to drop with the competitive groups. Makes Sense.

Casual groups who want to play against solos because they don't want to play against competitive groups.... and people call me crazy....

Edited by VonBruinwald, 07 May 2020 - 09:50 AM.

[Kroete]

VonBruinwald, on 07 May 2020 - 09:50 AM, said:

Casual groups who want to play against solos because they don't want to play against competitive groups.... and people call me crazy....

Thats the moment where you can see the hypocrytes ...

Edited by Kroete, 07 May 2020 - 04:12 PM.

[Nearly Dead]

I think today pretty much killed my remaining interest in playing. If people are going to act like this, not many solo players are going to last more than a few weeks, if that.

[NocturnalBeast]

I have had some rough times recently and I am piecing together a new PC, I hope MWO is still around when I get all the parts.

[R Valentine]

Asylum Choir, on 06 May 2020 - 07:10 AM, said:

WOT has groups and solos mixed together.
It has bad players put against insanely great players.
I could count on one hand in the last ten years posts I've seen crying about sols vs groups.
This "community" has some of the most toxic solos I have ever seen.
Team based game, best played with others in a team. Advertised as such.
Players join, refuse to get on TS/Discord etc, refuse to join a unit, refuse to team work.
Get smashed.
complain, blame teamwork and premades for getting smashed.
Issue lies with solo player, not premades.
Solos cry over and over until solo Q gets made. Solo Q in a multiplayer team based game...
Casual players who want to drop with a couple of mates can't. As the more serious group players concentrated in one area.

The issue is with the players. Maybe the modern gamer is getting less socially adept I don't know. I managed in my time to group up, join units and get on TS and enjoy the game immensley, and I have asperger's syndrome.
If I can manage that, why can't the super solos?

Solo Q is the only reason this game has made it this far. Where were you when group queue was dying? Oh right, solo Q.

"I want to be able to drop in groups to farm solos, but I ran away from group queue where competitive groups farmed me."

That's rich.

[Weeny Machine]

Kiran Yagami, on 08 May 2020 - 11:33 PM, said:

Solo Q is the only reason this game has made it this far. Where were you when group queue was dying? Oh right, solo Q.

"I want to be able to drop in groups to farm solos, but I ran away from group queue where competitive groups farmed me."

That's rich.

But it sums up the attitude of quite a few "I want to play with friends because that is soooo much fun (when we can slaughter PuGs)" or "I want competetive matches (as long as I hold the advantage of course)" or "I want to introduce my friends to this game and they will only stay if I can hold their hand (until they drop solo and repeatedly slaughtered by seal clubbers)"


What those people do not get is: once the solos leave the game because they got rolled once too often, the ones you mentioned are suddenly the new cannon fodder. And then QP is the new Group Queue....and equally dead.

Edited by Weeny Machine, 09 May 2020 - 01:26 AM.

[Horseman]

Weeny Machine, on 09 May 2020 - 01:24 AM, said:

But it sums up the attitude of quite a few "I want to play with friends because that is soooo much fun (when we can slaughter PuGs)" or "I want competetive matches (as long as I hold the advantage of course)" or "I want to introduce my friends to this game and they will only stay if I can hold their hand (until they drop solo and repeatedly slaughtered by seal clubbers)"

You forgot the "I want to play with friends because that is soooo much fun (when we are getting repeatedly slaughtered)" .

Quote

I want competetive matches (as long as I hold the advantage of course)"

That isn't competitive. People who really think like that are just overgrown playground bullies with not a single shred of genuine competitive mindset.
A truly competitively-minded player wants equal or superior opponents, simply because fighting those is the only real way of improving his or her abilities instead of letting them decay. That equal teams lead to more tense, enjoyable matches is not an insigificant factor either.

Edited by Horseman, 09 May 2020 - 01:48 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Horseman, on 09 May 2020 - 01:45 AM, said:

A truly competitively-minded player wants equal or superior opponents, simply because fighting those is the only real way of improving his or her abilities instead of letting them decay. That equal teams lead to more tense, enjoyable matches is not an insigificant factor either.

I wouldn't call myself competitive, rather the antithesis but I do agree with your mindset.

Of course, there's a fine line between being the underdog and being stomped. Merging group/solo has pushed the overall experience just past the mark.

[Weeny Machine]

Horseman, on 09 May 2020 - 01:45 AM, said:

You forgot the "I want to play with friends because that is soooo much fun (when we are getting repeatedly slaughtered)" .
That isn't competitive. People who really think like that are just overgrown playground bullies with not a single shred of genuine competitive mindset.
A truly competitively-minded player wants equal or superior opponents, simply because fighting those is the only real way of improving his or her abilities instead of letting them decay. That equal teams lead to more tense, enjoyable matches is not an insigificant factor either.

Well, you see how many group people are in the game who really want competetive matches...not many or else the group queue wouldn't be dead.

However, when they get the chance to skew odds in their favour (my favourite: 4 men groups + sny dropping buddies)...hey, let's group up, playing with friends is what I wanted aaaaaall the time, you know

Edited by Weeny Machine, 09 May 2020 - 05:50 AM.

[Belacose]

Knight Captain Morgan, on 05 May 2020 - 03:57 PM, said:

a little hint, this isn't a 4 week trial, it is an off the wall idea based on what Russ thinks people need. It was never temporary and is only being called a trial to slow the exodus of the seals from the clubbing grounds.

And yet this '4 week trial' is pretty much the same system they've been running in War Thunder for years no player skill system and pugs combined with groups up to 4.

Add to that that WT just hit a record 121,784 players in game at the same time and maybe, just maybe, you can see the logic in PGI following suit? ...

[Weeny Machine]

Belacose, on 11 May 2020 - 09:47 AM, said:

And yet this '4 week trial' is pretty much the same system they've been running in War Thunder for years no player skill system and pugs combined with groups up to 4.

Add to that that WT just hit a record 121,784 players in game at the same time and maybe, just maybe, you can see the logic in PGI following suit? ...

Again: World of Warcraft didn't make it work when battlegrounds were introduced and changed the system, Warhammer Online didn't make it work...and those games have/had a lower and more forgiving pvp (respawn etc) than MWO and a near instant queue. I haven't played War Thunder so I cannot comment on that but getting a match going in MWO takes a couple of minutes which is quite a long time. And I doubt WT has that problem.

As for MWOI have had matches were the loading screens took longer than the match itself - regardless if I won or lost (sidenote: for me is rushing down and slaughtering an enemy not more enjoyable than being rolled). Do you think solo players will accept that on the long run? I strongly doubt it.
If this system stays and solos realize they will get merrily seal clubbed, they will leave sooner or later. Then the casual groups realize that they are the new seals. And then you have your beloved group queue back...huge waiting times and a pretty much dead game.

The funny part is, however, that the group players who play the problems down now or even make snide comments about solo players (the chat hasn't really improved after the merge...) will be for sure the first ones to complain when the waiting time skyrockets and the game breaks apart.

Edited by Weeny Machine, 11 May 2020 - 10:00 AM.