344 replies to this topic

[Anomalocaris]

Unfortunately I think there is one data point that is working against those who are asking (wishing?) for reversion to split queues. Namely players online and games played. I've been checking stats of all the heavy hitters in the game, most of whom have expressed serious reservations about the impact of the merge.

Almost every single one them has already played a huge number of games in the first week of May. Enough that they are on pace for a 2x-4x increase in games over their rolling 3 month average. This sort of play increase will, of course, be interpreted by PGI as acceptance/popularity of the merge. But what they don't realize is that these players, while practicing "industrial agriculture" (love that term btw), will eventually drive out lesser skilled players and/or get bored and play less. The latter probably following the former.

This is one of several reasons I chose _not_ to play during this merge "test". I don't blame anyone that did, but just understand that PGI will interpret as support of the direction they wish to go (which they do with anything - if top players had stopped playing we'd be seeing data about fewer stomps, I guarantee it).

[Anomalocaris]

Dee Eight, on 08 May 2020 - 07:13 AM, said:

[Redacted]

Oh I know why they're doing it. Totally understandable. But PGI is just going to interpret it as "more players we were right". But, they'll interpret any data as favoring their approach so it really doesn't matter.

[Polish Hammer]

Great job guys! I play MWO more than ever lately cause I can drop with my friends finally. Keep it going!
And try to disregard tryhard and pro-player whinos. They are the cause of people not wanting this game more.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Dee Eight, on 08 May 2020 - 07:13 AM, said:

If you're referring to streamers like B33f its because they're playing the games to show how broken the merge queue is.

The funny thing is that if they were not doing that just to prove they can, the change would probably actually be enjoyable.

[Anomalocaris]

Grumpy Old Man, on 08 May 2020 - 07:52 AM, said:

The funny thing is that if they were not doing that just to prove they can, the change would probably actually be enjoyable.

TBF, they also don't have a group queue anymore.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Anomalocaris, on 08 May 2020 - 08:00 AM, said:

TBF, they also don't have a group queue anymore.

It's not like they had one outside of US prime time anyway. ;-)

[Brauer]

Grumpy Old Man, on 08 May 2020 - 07:52 AM, said:

The funny thing is that if they were not doing that just to prove they can, the change would probably actually be enjoyable.

Well a lot of folks are also just playing with their friends, and that results in stomps on stomps on stomps. The friends I've made in this game happen to be either from MJ12 (the only unit I've been a part of) or the competitive scene.

Edited by Brauer, 08 May 2020 - 10:27 AM.

[Magic Pain Glove]

Grumpy Old Man, on 08 May 2020 - 07:52 AM, said:

The funny thing is that if they were not doing that just to prove they can, the change would probably actually be enjoyable.

So I guess this is the latest excuse ?

But there is nothing to prove ... stomps happen even while memeing/screwing around and all of this was predictable from the very beginning . Your ONLY solution would be to tell "competitive" (I swear to God , everyone not holding a joystick will be considered competitive soon) players is to stop playing together or to go out of their way and self balance to such an extent at which point they are running heavy gauss firestarters .

Did we get more competitive matches ? No.
We instead got more stomps.
Have tonnage restrictions been an effective mitigation ? No.
But with the group matchmaker in place we have massive tonnage disparity in matches.

This never used to happen . Not even when the group queue was more populated . Have in mind that some of these are additionally diluted by playing solo as well, but its not like PGI can tell a difference. Sorted by WL :

[Alreech]

Spare Knight, on 06 May 2020 - 04:43 PM, said:

They might as well just shut down Faction Play now, since all the Faction Play units are grouping in Quick Play.

Or keep Quick Play for Solo Player only, kill the Group Quickplay and use the max size of 4 Players per group mixed with Solo Players for Faction Play...

[Grumpy Old Man]

Magic Pain Glove, on 08 May 2020 - 10:20 AM, said:

So I guess this is the latest excuse ?

I am not making excuses. I am posting my opinion. Totally selfish, subjective opinion. And I had a few really enjoyable close games. And I have had about 4 matches that were really, really lousy. My matches were - on average - more enjoyable to me. And I only play solo. Out of the 4 lousy matches, 2 of them were vs. Team Ash and one against some other 99% Team.

I am not sure why, but the really lousy matches drag me down a lot more than the enjoyable close games lift me up. All I know is that if Ash was not trying to prove the brokenness of the merge, I would have had only half of those really lousy games. ;-)

So for me, personally, my experience in the last 10 days would have been better. Is it objective? Nope. The way it is, I feel I have too many bad games (counting also bad, not only lousy) for the current situation to be enjoyable. But I also got enough close fun games to wonder how much fun this could be if I never ran into another Team of 99.9%ers...

[Anomalocaris]

As an addendum to MPG's ranking post, I'd also like to point out that in season 44 (untainted by this experiment) there were only 15 players with a WLR of 7.0 or higher. It's an absurdly high bar to cross in soloq.

In fact, of those 15 players, none had played more than 20 games (highest was 19, most were in the 10-15 range) which suggests they went on a great run at the start of the season and then called it quits to preserve their high WLR (maybe switched accounts, who knows). None of those players, at first glance, are anywhere near the top of the WLR standings this season.

This season we already have 32 players with a WLR of 7.0 or higher, and of those 16 have played 20 or more games. 8 have played 50 or more games and 3 have played well over 100 games each - and we're only 8 days into the season. There is simply no way in hell those guys would have been able to sustain that sort of WLR in the previous soloq over that many games. This tells us we have a major, major balancing issue here that tonnage is not going to solve. Hell, even NuttyRat (no offense Nutty) is pulling a 6+ WLR with 40+ games played. I think he'd be the first to tell you he wouldn't be remotely close to that in the old queue where he averages just over 1.0 WLR lifetime.

edit - going back a number of seasons the percentage of players with high WLR stats and playing only the 10 game minimum required to make it onto the leaderboard was quite high. Suggesting people were just trying to run a win streak for high placement and then not playing rest of season. Not the case this season.

Edited by Anomalocaris, 08 May 2020 - 11:11 AM.

[The Teddy Bear]

Magic Pain Glove, on 08 May 2020 - 06:21 AM, said:

I think discussing this any further is a bit pointless . Russ already made up his mind . Their "data" is in and at this point they will only be fiddling around with the group size and tonnages (if even that). But I doubt they will go lower than 4. This was never meant to be a test , we knew stuff was not gonna be reverted or even tweaked sufficiently to the point of being passable.

If they really wanted to shove it down our throats they could have at least improved the Group/Solo metrics ( even within the confines of Tier system) so that we get more balanced matches . Like if there is a sweaty team on one side at least give other team good solo players to stand a chance instead of stacking one side. But NOPE . Minimum viable product strikes once again.

Welcome to Farming Simulator 2020. The only way I can see this NOT backfiring is if the lower tier population is huge and floodgates never open . So that at least lower tiers with beer league teams never get exposed to semi decent semi coordinated groups , while mass scale Industrial agriculture will continue to occur in all "Tier 1" matches.

Can we at least get people who support this clusterf*** of a change to pressure PGI to do something about the Tier system / PSR ?

Tweet


I really like the pants on head PGI logic of :

"We wont let players opt in because we are afraid not many people will enjoy it . Instead we will force everyone to participate in group drops " .

IF YOUR ASSESSMENT IS THAT PEOPLE WILL NOT OPT IN WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THE REST OF THE QUEUE WILL EMBRACE GROUPS IN THEIR SOLO DROPS. FML ...

Thanks Magic, that post is the one everyone should look at.

[DAEDALOS513]

The Teddy Bear, on 08 May 2020 - 11:32 AM, said:

I know, this was my first unpleasant surprise in the game. Not the last though...

Yep, we've definitely had our ups and downs through the years.. I'm taking this renewed interest in the game as a sign that MWO will get more attention from the dev's.. I heard they renewed their license for another 5 years.. if they play their 'updates' right, the population will hopefully continue to increase.. I would love to see a new game mode.. something that doesn't require alot of developing.. maybe a last man standing game mode.. or even take the domination game mode and make it more dynamic by having the circle slowly move around the map.. this would be epic and ez to implement i think.. it would also give renewed life to our humungous maps because it would force you to battle in largely unused areas..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 08 May 2020 - 11:45 AM.

[The Teddy Bear]

DAEDALOS513, on 08 May 2020 - 11:43 AM, said:

I'm taking this renewed interest in the game as a sign that MWO will get more attention from the dev's..

So you think that lauching this whithout even an underground kind of of player skill rating will be good idea. Well I can only wish you a good luck in your dreams.

[DAEDALOS513]

The Teddy Bear, on 08 May 2020 - 11:53 AM, said:

So you think that lauching this whithout even an underground kind of of player skill rating will be good idea. Well I can only wish you a good luck in your dreams.

It's not perfect but like I said, it's a start.. dreaming is thinking they will fix psr now (after all these years) without first boosting the population.. this new 'so-up' queue, with MINIMUM EFFORT, brought renewed life to the game, insta-drops are back like the old days, we now have the ability to drop with a friend or two or three, nascar effect which pervaded 90% of matches and completely ruined them has been drastically reduced.. I don't understand how you guys aren't seeing how good this is, RELATIVE to how it was.. you have to be realistic, they will not invest into this game unless pop goes up.. you elites (not you Teddy ) stomping pugs into submission trying to prove your petty points are working against this effort. Grow up.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 08 May 2020 - 01:45 PM.

[The Teddy Bear]

DAEDALOS513, on 08 May 2020 - 11:58 AM, said:

. you elites (not you Teddy )

I know, did I ever told you so. You elites (not you Deadloss ) are actually pretty free to play the game as the want to.

Edited by The Teddy Bear, 08 May 2020 - 12:06 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

The Teddy Bear, on 08 May 2020 - 12:05 PM, said:

I know, did I ever told you so. You elites (not you Deadloss ) are actually pretty free to play the game as the want to.

Yes they are, but they must realize this has consequences..

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 08 May 2020 - 01:45 PM.

[Horseman]

Grumpy Old Man, on 08 May 2020 - 10:56 AM, said:

I am not sure why, but the really lousy matches drag me down a lot more than the enjoyable close games lift me up. All I know is that if Ash was not trying to prove the brokenness of the merge, I would have had only half of those really lousy games. ;-)

And if the matchmaker was doing it's job you would have more of the close games instead of the lousy ones. Instead, the matchmaker's answer to everything is...

[redacted]

Edited by GM Patience, 08 May 2020 - 01:26 PM.

[Knight Captain Morgan]

Horseman, on 08 May 2020 - 12:12 PM, said:

And if the matchmaker was doing it's job you would have more of the close games instead of the lousy ones. Instead, the matchmaker's answer to everything is...
[Redacted]

when premades are allowed/encouraged to farm casual solo pugs, no amount of matchmaker "valves" will help. Given the cheerleading for PUG farming going on in these forums, 1 can only conclude that the "majority" favor a farm system that only leads to the wait time seen in the "old" faction war/group queues...

You enjoy those lengthy wait times just as I shall enjoy the lengthy 7 month wait time before MW5 can be available on a decent launcher.

Edited by GM Patience, 08 May 2020 - 01:28 PM.

[Ignatius Audene]

Wouldn't it be rly easy to adjust the mm metrics depending on the players online?

Many players online rly strikt mm. 50 Online? Throw everything together...? This way the mm doesn't have to wait 3 mins just 2 realise it got not enough material (and then start to soften).

In general pls go a much tighter mm route. Game quality over quantity!