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100% Op But Nobody Complains?


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#41 Sjorpha

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 04:42 AM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 10 May 2020 - 05:10 AM, said:

100% Radar Derp

I'm not complaining about the derp itself but if a player builds their mech for Target Decay Duration providing a 100% counter for their investment is unfair. I understand it takes 5 more nodes for maximum derp vs. maximum durr but that's not a valid excuse. Imagine you could pick up full immunity to enemy strikes via 10 nodes (and yes, I understand that's a silly concept).

I'd suggest dropping each node to 15% for a maximum reduction of 75%. I'd even accept 19/95% as a token gesture in recognition of the issue.

/vent.


To be honest 10 nodes for full immunity to strikes would be perfectly fair and probably not worth the investment.

Radar dep is also not worth the investment unless your mech already benefits heavily from going down that tree.

I could see making the relationship between decay and dep equal if decay is also moved down so that taking the full set requires at least as many nodes as dep does. As it is now decay is a much lower investment, both in actual number of nodes and in build opportunity cost, as lrm mechs don't really need agility or toughness tree so they have more nodes to splash on sensors.

So yeah no, nothing op about radar dep right now.

#42 VonBruinwald

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 07:42 AM

View PostSjorpha, on 11 May 2020 - 04:42 AM, said:

I could see making the relationship between decay and dep equal if decay is also moved down so that taking the full set requires at least as many nodes as dep does. As it is now decay is a much lower investment, both in actual number of nodes and in build opportunity cost,


I get what you say about cost, decay is cheaper node-wise. But there's a multiplicative effect to the dep, if you drop into cover with multiple mechs targeting you dep affects all their decays. Whereas with decay it only ever acts on a single mech.

#43 MischiefSC

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 03:42 PM

Fortunately line of sight breaks derp completely. So just moving to a position where you have line of sight means you've completely eliminated all those points they put in it.

I mean otherwise you'd have a ton of people who just hide, leech off other peoples locks and still farm damage with autolocking weapons.

That's be terrible. Pathetic even. Nobody would want that, I'm sure you'd agree. Fortunately we've got these mechanics that drive players to take risks to get rewards and that support good positioning decisions and as much as possible skill based behaviors.

Isn't that great?

#44 Xiphias

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 04:10 PM

Can we talk about the real OP feature that needs to be addressed first, target spotted?

It has zero cost to use and it tracks mechs outside line of sight at any range and without any counter. It can track mechs that are using stealth armor and ones that are outside of max sensor range. It makes no sense and it's a broken way to track mechs that are out of sight/behind cover for far too long. It's pretty much a free wall hack against any one unit you choose.

The feature is broken enough that they removed the capability to use it in Solaris, but they still left it in the main game, because I guess it was too much work to fix.

#45 General Solo

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 04:32 PM

Well compared to narc, Radar derp is pretty mild. Doh you have to aim narc

#46 crazytimes

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 05:17 PM

View PostOZHomerOZ, on 11 May 2020 - 04:32 PM, said:

Well compared to narc, Radar derp is pretty mild. Doh you have to aim narc

You know what we don't see enough of? NARC assaults. Excuse me whilst I go make a NARC Atlas.

#47 General Solo

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 05:49 PM

View Postcrazytimes, on 11 May 2020 - 05:17 PM, said:

You know what we don't see enough of? NARC assaults. Excuse me whilst I go make a NARC Atlas.


I personally wouldn't recommend that, an assualt with narc, especially an Atlas.
Light, medium or Summoner is better imo
Have fun with narc, as it can be greatly amusing. Posted Image

#48 JediPanther

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 08:25 PM

Hmm Narc x 6 cptl-A1. Bring and get all the locks.

#49 crazytimes

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Posted 11 May 2020 - 11:44 PM

View PostJediPanther, on 11 May 2020 - 08:25 PM, said:

Hmm Narc x 6 cptl-A1. Bring and get all the locks.


Nah, what you *really* need for locks is this bad boy:

MAD-4HP

Not only can it maximise locking potential- it can also apply the hurt once those targets are locked up. Don't underestimate the power of an IS SSRM2.

#50 Sjorpha

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 01:11 AM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 11 May 2020 - 07:42 AM, said:


I get what you say about cost, decay is cheaper node-wise. But there's a multiplicative effect to the dep, if you drop into cover with multiple mechs targeting you dep affects all their decays. Whereas with decay it only ever acts on a single mech.


Balance in the end is about whether something is worth taking or not. Decay is strong enough that any lrm boat wants it, radar dep is not strong enough to be worth taking unless you also want seismic or something.

Basically you can't reduce this to a technical argument about decay VS dep, you have to look at how things play out on the battlefield and what ends up being worth investing nodes in.

I see zero evidence of dep being op, if it was it would have sensor tree a priority, but instead the meta is mostly maxed out firepower and toughness, mostly ignore agility and sensors and get extra strikes and coolshots.

So you're not actually fighting many enemies with radar dep, because for most builds it's not worth it.

#51 Appogee

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 01:23 AM

View PostSjorpha, on 12 May 2020 - 01:11 AM, said:

Basically you can't reduce this to a technical argument about decay VS dep, you have to look at how things play out on the battlefield and what ends up being worth investing nodes in.

I see zero evidence of dep being op, if it was it would have sensor tree a priority, but instead the meta is mostly maxed out firepower and toughness, mostly ignore agility and sensors and get extra strikes and coolshots.

So you're not actually fighting many enemies with radar dep, because for most builds it's not worth it.

^ This.

#52 Ignatius Audene

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 02:27 AM

Sometimes when no one complains, it is just no issue.

#53 Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 04:23 AM

View PostSjorpha, on 12 May 2020 - 01:11 AM, said:

Balance in the end is about whether something is worth taking or not. Decay is strong enough that any lrm boat wants it, radar dep is not strong enough to be worth taking unless you also want seismic or something.

Basically you can't reduce this to a technical argument about decay VS dep, you have to look at how things play out on the battlefield and what ends up being worth investing nodes in.

I see zero evidence of dep being op, if it was it would have sensor tree a priority, but instead the meta is mostly maxed out firepower and toughness, mostly ignore agility and sensors and get extra strikes and coolshots.

So you're not actually fighting many enemies with radar dep, because for most builds it's not worth it.

View PostAppogee, on 12 May 2020 - 01:23 AM, said:

^ This.

View PostIgnatius Audene, on 12 May 2020 - 02:27 AM, said:

Sometimes when no one complains, it is just no issue.


please stop bringing sensible things to a discussion that clearly doesn't care about them ..
some people just cannot be helped, because they don't want to be helped, you know ..

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 12 May 2020 - 04:37 AM.


#54 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 05:28 AM

I found something else OP. Shock Absorption skill nodes. Those damn poptarting, tahssic, comp tryhards and their fancy jump-shots. How dare they!

Those are mostly a waste to go solely for them.

#55 Sergeant Destroy

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 06:24 AM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 12 May 2020 - 05:28 AM, said:

I found something else OP. Shock Absorption skill nodes. Those damn poptarting, tahssic, comp tryhards and their fancy jump-shots. How dare they!




I hope You realize what you just have done.

#56 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 06:31 AM

View PostSergeant Destroy, on 12 May 2020 - 06:24 AM, said:


I hope You realize what you just have done.


I play only to mess about with my all-range-bracket lock-on builds and don't care about winning. But I find things OP and I'll report it!

#57 Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 06:42 AM

View PostFRAGTAST1C, on 12 May 2020 - 06:31 AM, said:


I play only to mess about with my all-range-bracket lock-on builds and don't care about winning. But I find things OP and I'll report it!


typing down a 5 page long article on how they are OP, utterly broke and cater only to the elite
right now .. just have to get into the mood.

Posted Image

#58 Sergeant Destroy

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 06:43 AM

You cant lose when you`re effective at all ranges.

#59 Bud Crue

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 06:44 AM

I have always used derp (left side of tree, three nodes worth) on nearly all my mechs, and just forgot that I had done that. But I realized about a year ago, that in most games I am out in the open brawling in which case derp is useless, or I am using cover and derp is unnecessary; so I have been removing it from most of my builds. I had no idea that some folks still consider it a necessity, let alone as some sort of OP advantage. Learn something new everyday.

#60 Mole

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Posted 12 May 2020 - 07:53 AM

Well I guess we all know who likes to sit in the back and beg for locks.





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