34 replies to this topic

[Brauer]

JediPanther, on 20 May 2020 - 08:52 AM, said:

You must die a lot and watch of the loading-drop screens. That puny lack back armor makes my lights play like god mode when I get into the death arc of a 100 ton paper weight.

How my lights feel:

Running low back armor is standard among top players and there's a reason. Your front armor faces the enemy far more often than your back armor does. Sure it creates some vulnerability to back-stabs, but it is better in the long run AND only truly obscene amounts of back armor do much to blunt the impact of back-stabs.

[RickySpanish]

JediPanther, on 20 May 2020 - 08:52 AM, said:

You must die a lot and watch of the loading-drop screens. That puny lack back armor makes my lights play like god mode when I get into the death arc of a 100 ton paper weight.

How my lights feel:

To be fair, the quality of that King Crab's piloting suggests to me that no amount of rear armour distribution would have saved him.

[Gladiolix]

JediPanther, on 20 May 2020 - 08:52 AM, said:

You must die a lot and watch of the loading-drop screens. That puny lack back armor makes my lights play like god mode when I get into the death arc of a 100 ton paper weight.

How my lights feel:

I actually die extremely rarely to my back armor, hence, the low back armor. If you can keep up with your teammates in the nascar and are good at torso twisting, and just are generally aware of your surroundings at all times, low back armor in the QP is not a problem. Not even in a 100 tonner.

For example :
https://mech.nav-alp...fd96531e_AS7-BH

The mech is fast enough to not fall behind in nascar (for me at least). Moving armor from front to back would lessen my effectiveness in the brawl where all I need is front armor; and what the build is made for. In this particular build I haven't died fresh from the back armor, but if I did, I would only count it as extremely poor play from me, or extremely good play from the enemy. Just keep yourself in the pack with teammates and lights are not going to be a huge problem.

And as the sight of a 100t Atlas just invites lights to come face hug you, more often than not, they are suprised at the effectivenes of the 6 arm mounted mediums

And the loadout is just an example, works in QP, propably not in comp (I'm not a comp player)
Do I recommend 2-4 point back armor for every player out there? No. Play how ever you're most effective. But if you need 10 or more points of armor in the back, you need take a look at your own gameplay and how to avoid getting *** ***** - you should be FACING the enemy.

[Xiphias]

MeanMachinE, on 20 May 2020 - 02:35 AM, said:

To oversimplify, teamplay. To correct the problem "group up with the fatties" (or slow mechs). The assaults/slow mechs can carry the team to victory, but they need the support. Mediums and lights should protect the big guys so that they get to the line safely. Following the minimap also helps.

Actually, a lot of the time the problem is that the people in the assault mechs don't have any idea of what they should be doing and want the team to center around them to make up for their mistakes. Players that consistently get left behind are either making poor piloting choices or poor mechlab choices. Good assaults don't need to be protected by lights to get the front line safely.

If a pilot isn't good enough to get to the battle, why would I expect them to be good enough to carry the team? If four assaults can't handle a couple of lights they can't be that good.

Gladiolix, on 19 May 2020 - 10:52 PM, said:

If nascar is a problem to you, play lighter faster mechs. I don't see any benefit to your cause in a teammate that turns around but has half his mech busted.

When your greatest enemy is yourself, no amount of speed can help you outrun it.

They're just being a petulant child who is throwing a tantrum (and breaking CoC) because other people aren't going out of their way to coddle them and compensate for their poor choices in the mechlab and in the game. Sometimes your team does dumb things, it's unfortunate, be an adult and move on with your life.

[Gladiolix]

JediPanther, on 20 May 2020 - 08:52 AM, said:

You must die a lot and watch of the loading-drop screens. That puny lack back armor makes my lights play like god mode when I get into the death arc of a 100 ton paper weight.

How my lights feel:

As for the video, no amount of back armor would have saved that crappy Crab player :DD

[bilagaana]

MeanMachinE, on 20 May 2020 - 02:35 AM, said:

To correct the problem "group up with the fatties" (or slow mechs)...Mediums and lights should protect the big guys so that they get to the line safely.

Nope.

Xiphias, on 20 May 2020 - 10:22 AM, said:

Actually, a lot of the time the problem is that the people in the assault mechs don't have any idea of what they should be doing and want the team to center around them to make up for their mistakes.

Yup.

Especially with the current mixing of tiers, there is an excess of timid and unskilled players participating in matches which are, unfortunately, well beyond their abilities. And the fact is, the most timid and least skilled players are always in assaults, especially LRM assaults. These are not worth saving.

And, just in case someone's now offended: This does not say that all assault pilots are timid and unskilled.

[Odin]

Its a design decision. Made long ago. This isn't about players.

[Mechaholics Anonymous]

I agree with MeanMachinE that the mini map is useful and also agree with FRAGTAST1C that not many people use it. So when I see the rotation begin on the map, I will use comms to state that the team is moving around. Not necessary every time, only when I see a mech not moving with the group. Communication is key, so let everyone know if NASCAR is being initiated, and use your mini map. Also I am not a fan of running in circles.

[Zirconium Kaze]

Brauer, on 20 May 2020 - 04:39 AM, said:

We already have a mode with respawns it's called Faction Play.

Choosing a mech after the map is chosen will lead to a dramatic stagnation in the meta. Alpine and Polar will be blue lasers, peeps, and lurms, Solaris City will be dakka and brawl, etc..

If you want the respawn + pick your mech experience play Faction. It already exists....

I do on occasion, but when I want to play mwo, I want to play now, not later.

[Angus McFife VI]

A lot of you guys are talking a lot of **** about players only get lost in the nascar because they aren't looking at the map.

I was running a 54 kph 6 LL Stalker and would immediately follow the lemming train lest get left behind. Unfortunately, many times an enemy medium or light would run to back of the pack and hit me in the back, or many times some 48 kph dual Hgauss mech behind me. I've seen some 54kph assaults start following the train immediately and this still happens, even when they haven't stopped to aim at anything.

The worst part is half of the instances the team could have turned back and set up a firing line and completely destroy or scare off the harassers. I've seen this happen before in the past. I'd even use coms and no one would turn around.

So this is why I've settled with shooting you in the back if you leave me to die. If the ****** can't be reasoned with, he can be wrangled with heuristic pain induced conditioning, like a ******* animal.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 24 May 2020 - 11:09 PM.

[letir]

Dont LRM me please, on 24 May 2020 - 11:04 PM, said:

So this is why I've settled with shooting you in the back if you leave me to die. If the ****** can't be reasoned with, he can be wrangled with heuristic pain induced conditioning, like a ******* animal.

The only animal here is you.

I've seen enough self-entitled ******** who make mistakes first, and then throwning a tantrum about "it's all team fault". People like you deserve a ban.

Taking slow 'mech is a choice. If you cannot make your own choice work, don't blame the team. This is your own fault.

Grown up a little.

[Stormpaw]

Only lights and fast mediums should be doing wide flanking. If you see the main enemy force on the left, and your assaults, heavies and line mediums turn right and run you might as well shoot them in the back, you already lost

[Xiphias]

Dont LRM me please, on 24 May 2020 - 11:04 PM, said:

A lot of you guys are talking a lot of **** about players only get lost in the nascar because they aren't looking at the map.

I was running a 54 kph 6 LL Stalker and would immediately follow the lemming train lest get left behind. Unfortunately, many times an enemy medium or light would run to back of the pack and hit me in the back, or many times some 48 kph dual Hgauss mech behind me. I've seen some 54kph assaults start following the train immediately and this still happens, even when they haven't stopped to aim at anything.

The worst part is half of the instances the team could have turned back and set up a firing line and completely destroy or scare off the harassers. I've seen this happen before in the past. I'd even use coms and no one would turn around.

You fail to grasp what good positioning in an assault mech means. Blinding following the "lemming train" makes you a lemming. Just following the team isn't good positioning or good piloting.

Also, why would you ever be running a 54kph 6LL stalker? I guarantee that's a sub part build. Stop running an undersized engine just to take more weapons. You can run 57kph with 6LL and 20 heatsinks with a standard engine. If you want AMS, drop a couple heatsinks and/or switch to a light engine.

People shouldn't be running 48 KPH dual heavy gauss mechs unless they know what they are doing or are prepared to deal with the consequences of being that slow. Those things can pretty much one shot any light mech provided the pilot can aim. Do you know how many times I've seen an entire lance of assaults be incapable of dealing with a couple lights? You do realize that a group of assaults can kill lights?

I've been playing more as assaults recently and sometimes your job is to die holding off the enemy team as long as possible to give your team time to chew up their rear. You just have to play smart and do as much damage as possible before you die. That's your role as an assault mech in solo queue. If you want to take the big guns then get used to taking the responsibility.

Yes, sometimes pugs suck and they leave you to die. That's unfortunate and unavoidable. You can reduce this by piloting better or altering builds to be a bit faster or you can just avoid it completely by running faster mechs rather than slow assaults. It's not your team's job to play the game the way that you want or around your style.

"But I don't want to play mechs that aren't assaults, I shouldn't have to play something that I don't like just because of my team" you might say. Maybe your team doesn't want to go slowly and hang around your slow assault mech? Why should they have to play in a way that they don't want to just to accommodate your choices. It cuts both ways. Really slow mechs can be a liability to the team, don't tell people to change their playstyle just because you don't want to change yours.

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So this is why I've settled with shooting you in the back if you leave me to die. If the ****** can't be reasoned with, he can be wrangled with heuristic pain induced conditioning, like a ******* animal.

You're selfish, narcissistic, and violating the ToS. You are in the wrong, end of story. Stop acting like you are a victim, you're being a bully and are acting like a child. If you can't handle your team not babysitting you then play something faster or play a different game. You're a toxic player and blind to your own faults. No one is going to miss you if you get banned for TKing.

[Angus McFife VI]

Xiphias, on 25 May 2020 - 07:05 AM, said:

You're selfish, narcissistic, and violating the ToS. You are in the wrong, end of story. Stop acting like you are a victim, you're being a bully and are acting like a child. If you can't handle your team not babysitting you then play something faster or play a different game. You're a toxic player and blind to your own faults. No one is going to miss you if you get banned for TKing.

No one will miss me if I get banned because this game is a ghost town.

Xiphias, on 25 May 2020 - 07:05 AM, said:

You fail to grasp what good positioning in an assault mech means. Blinding following the "lemming train" makes you a lemming. Just following the team isn't good positioning or good piloting.

What the hell are you supposed to do besides following the lemming train after you drop in? If you stand still, you die. If you follow the train, you have a much higher chance of not dying. There is no inbetween. A medium or heavy mech will always get to a strategic part of the map first before you, all you can literally do is follow the train. It is quite literally a binary choice.

Xiphias, on 25 May 2020 - 07:05 AM, said:

Also, why would you ever be running a 54kph 6LL stalker? I guarantee that's a sub part build. Stop running an undersized engine just to take more weapons. You can run 57kph with 6LL and 20 heatsinks with a standard engine. If you want AMS, drop a couple heatsinks and/or switch to a light engine.

I just checked my build it actually goes 56.something kph. That doesn't even matter, that difference in kph is nothing and doesn't change anything.

Xiphias, on 25 May 2020 - 07:05 AM, said:

You just have to play smart and do as much damage as possible before you die. That's your role as an assault mech in solo queue.

Yes, I'll last as long as possible at the back of the NASCAR while my teammates walk out of my view. That is very helpful.

Xiphias, on 25 May 2020 - 07:05 AM, said:

It's not your team's job to play the game the way that you want or around your style. "But I don't want to play mechs that aren't assaults, I shouldn't have to play something that I don't like just because of my team" you might say. Maybe your team doesn't want to go slowly and hang around your slow assault mech? Why should they have to play in a way that they don't want to just to accommodate your choices. It cuts both ways.

This is a strawman. It's also mutually beneficial if I survive. They might be able to clip some mediums/lights and I get to enjoy tthe match, while also I get to help them in future encounters in the match if I'm still alive. I'm simply calling them idiots for not turning around when they're clearly able to and they can even hear me (not even in an angry voice) asking for help on voip.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 25 May 2020 - 08:49 PM.

[Xiphias]

Dont LRM me please, on 25 May 2020 - 08:47 PM, said:

No one will miss me if I get banned because this game is a ghost town.

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What the hell are you supposed to do besides following the lemming train after you drop in? If you stand still, you die. If you follow the train, you have a much higher chance of not dying. There is no inbetween. A medium or heavy mech will always get to a strategic part of the map first before you, all you can literally do is follow the train. It is quite literally a binary choice.

There are a variety of things that you can do, not all of them advisable of course. Often the best option is to move towards where the team is heading to intercept them (rather than following directly), somewhat map dependent, but I see the problem of people literally chasing the team all the time when they could simply cut a shorter route and meet up. Following the train and intercepting the train are similar, but not always the same thing.

You can move away from your spawn to a strategic location to either 1) Slow down and suppress the enemy enemy team for as long as possible before you die, 2) Move out of sight and wait for the enemy team to pass and get behind them/group up with the front of your NASCAR. It's all map dependent, but there are more things you can do than just sit or chase.

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I just checked my build it actually goes 56.something kph. That doesn't even matter, that difference in kph is nothing and doesn't change anything.

If you're going to post numbers, post accurate ones. Little things add up to become big things. Run a bit slow, join a few seconds late, and take a slightly slower path. Individually not the end of the world, but together can make a big difference on being left behind.

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Yes, I'll last as long as possible at the back of the NASCAR while my teammates walk out of my view. That is very helpful.

People talk about role warfare until they don't like the role that they are given. The longer you stall the enemy team the higher chance your team has of winning. There are a lot of ways to do this, and most of them don't involve chasing the back of your team's NASCAR. A few well placed shots will chase off most lights/mediums and stall the enemy team. You don't have to survive to contribute to the win. If the enemy fast movers are attacking the assaults they aren't protecting their own assaults so whichever team's assaults are better at killing the lights is probably going to win.

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This is a strawman. It's also mutually beneficial if I survive. They might be able to clip some mediums/lights and I get to enjoy tthe match, while also I get to help them in future encounters in the match if I'm still alive. I'm simply calling them idiots for not turning around when they're clearly able to and they can even hear me (not even in an angry voice) asking for help on voip.

Okay, tell me this then. In what situation is it beneficial for you to put an alpha into the back of your teammates? I'll tell you, ZERO. That doesn't help them survive, it doesn't make them want to help you. In fact, it makes them want to put as much distance between you and them as possible because you are clearly just as dangerous as the enemy.

You say that it's mutually beneficial if you survive. This isn't necessarily true. Everything in MWO has an opportunity cost. If a light turns around to protect an assault that's time not spent harassing the enemy's back. If saving an assault allows it to do an extra 200 damage in a match, but the light could have done 400 damage in that time, it's a net loss. Saving a good assault pilot is worth it, saving a bad assault pilot isn't. Usually the good assault pilots don't need to be saved making it an easy choice, as long as I can kill the enemy assaults faster in my light it's usually a net gain for my team.

I'm not arguing the point that it would be good for the team to support its slower mechs and asking for help is fine. However, when you cross the line from asking for help to demanding it and damaging your team because you don't get the help you think you deserve, then yes you are telling your team to play the game in such a way that it supports your play style. Can I start shooting people because they don't bring meta builds? Players not bringing meta is going to contribute to my team losing, by your logic should I try to condition LRM boats into not taking LRMs by team killing?

Just because something is better for the team, doesn't mean that you can insist that people do it. It's a game, people play for fun. You can't force them not to play how they want to just so that you can have more fun. It's not a strawman, by shooting your teammates you are trying to bully them into playing the game the way that you think it should be played.