849 replies to this topic

[Z02]

Set 10 Tiers!!!

[AnHell86]

Reset it. I will reinstall the game to test the changes.

[Jesslp]

Greetings,
I like the idea of the Tier Ranks reset, as long as there is an effort to correct the way the PSR works.

I will add 3 notes on the PSR thing:

1) If you win, but you underperform, you still lose PSR. Or if you lose the match, but you did well, you still go up the ranks.

BUT not based on damage, or kills alone; rather based A LOT MORE on teamplay.
Also the damage etc threshold, should be VERY different depending on weight/mech type class.

Lurmers do a lot of damage without "sharing armor", and thus should have a lot less match score (regardless of weight class);
but if they TAKE damage while playing along their teammates (lance in formation, etc) while the rest of their team is still alive, if they lock their own targets (instead of expecting teammates to find targets for them all the time), if they respond to calls for "help" and "target spotted" messages, and so on, they get better matchscores.

THE SAME MAY APPLY FOR LONG-RANGE SNIPERS. Those players that go to a map corner where they can hide and snipe from relative safety, or at least while the rest of their team dies alone... they should see a penalty on their match scores, and not just taking into account how much damage they did.

2) Take into account, for BOTH match score, and PSR rating, the following differences:
A ) If a player is using a Elite chassis/variant, as if not, players which use a "non-top" performer mech, will be penalised every match, and
B ) If the mech is leveld up (on skill points) or not yet.

3) [My english is somewhat limited so i'll try to do my best for clarity here]
Any player, may not belong to the same level tier, depending on which weight class he/she is playing
Ill try to explain: I may be "well above average" when playing mediums or heavy mechs, but just average on assaults, and "super-poor" when playing lights. This should also be taken into account, for both dimishing the rise and drop and match scores.

Thanks for reading this quite dense and long post, best regards.

PD: "Armor sharing" score, while it may be difficult to implement, would be a very interesting metric to add for both match score, XP and CBills earnings, and PSR change. IF working properly.

Edited by Jesslp, 26 May 2020 - 04:00 AM.

[East Indy]

Yes, do this. But, please:

1. Change matchscore rating adjustments to acknowledge what we know 5 years later: winning is great, but in a team game it doesn't reflect individual player ability accurately. Matchscores of 100-250 shouldn't increase rating since they're roughly the average player score, while matchscores of both 250-400 and 400+ should result in increases win or lose.

2. Make all tiers public on the forums. It helps understanding who's who. It's all there to extrapolate with leaderboards anyhow; if players want to be nasty they're going to find a way.

3. Don't adjust PSR with Group Queue results.

4. In Mixed Queue, visually identify players in groups in the team screen. Sometimes unit tags or familiar names aren't enough, and knowing which players may be the most dangerous goes a long way toward balancing their coordination advantage.

[MrSaturn3000]

Reset

[Erebus01]

Reset PSR and make it zero sum. Should have been done years ago.

[Reacted]

[War Steiner]

Do it. DO IT!

[B0oN]

Reset PSR .

[Gladiolix]

My vote for the reset too!

[Larsh]

Rest that PSR! Hell ya!

[ThomasAH]

Feel free to reset the PSR.

Long-time T1 here - and while on some days I think this is fine, on other days I'm playing too inconsistent for it, so in reality I shouldn't be on T1.

But if the PSR change is calculated based on the match score (which seems to be mostly damage + AMS success), I fear that people who often use builds with high damage output or multiple AMS rank higher too fast, while playing the fast light that often wins the conquest match by capturing and re-capturing all 5 spots doesn't.

[Eugene85]

[Sharfen]

I imagine these ideas have been covered before. To me, tier is a reflection of your 'reputation' (in game). With that in mind how about these changes?

1) As you move up tiers it takes higher match scores to trigger the + result. Instead more people would get an = since they are just playing at their level so to speak.

2) As you move up in tiers it takes less to get a - result. After all, you didn't play up to your reputation so it should take a hit. Keeping tier 1 should be more work.

3) Your reputation should diminish over time if not playing. At least down to a point. Maybe 1 tier?

Edited by Sharfen, 26 May 2020 - 04:28 AM.

[Nearly Dead]

Resetting the tiers and removing the upward bias is positive. I don't think it is the optimum solution but it may help the game limp along for a while longer. I still suggest using the most recent 100 matches of data to calculate tier, dropping the oldest score once 100 is reached.

***
edit/added after rereading Paul's original post stating that the reason for the upward bias is that if your team loses but you performed well you can still move up. Upward tier movement seems more related to the fact that you can be near the bottom of your team in performance and still move up if your team wins but be near the top of your team in terms of kills and damage and stay neutral if your team loses. Just remove win lose from the calculation and base it all on individual performance. Average Team Score for the most recent 100 matches (or however many they have played). That way what someone did 3 years ago won't matter, you can get a quick and dirty snap shot of their level by the end of the cadet period, and if someone changes playstyle or decides to play an underperforming "role play" or fun type mech for a while it won't be so hard to get back to where they were if they decide to get back in competitive mode again.

***

Something still needs to be done about the few truly OP groups. Many 4 man groups, (as identified by their unit tags) mix right in and play with the team on a level compatible with the rest of the team. There are some however who come in and due to the combination of their skill level, organization, super aggressive play style, and matching/optimized mechs simply run over everyone. Groups of tier 1 players need to drop against similar teams. Even when things are slow dropping a T1 four man against a team of random solo players is too unbalanced. Is it better for a T1 four man to wait for a second team, or for 12 solo players to get stomped?

The other thing that needs addressed by the groups themselves is team comms. If you drop with one four man and 8 solo players and use your Teamspeak or discord or whatever VOIP comms you use between matches, you are depriving the rest of the team the chance to learn to play with an organized team and unless you are one of the uber-units who can carry a match even if the other players sit in the DZ, throwing away a resource.

PGI, is there a path to improve in game comms to make it attractive to groups so they can communicate in the in game comms before, during and after the matches? I think it would result in better matches and a more positive experience for most of the players.

Edited by Nearly Dead, 26 May 2020 - 05:30 AM.

[L1f3H4ck]

Ebelon, on 26 May 2020 - 04:30 AM, said:

[Redacted]
.

But they're absolutely right. I do not belong in Tier 1, the XP bar pushed me there. I'm merely above average, skill gap is wide in both directions, still a lot of room to git gud for me. Gasing up yourself and others aint a sign for maturity either, if we want this to achieve anything, we gotta accept a couple of hard truths, and one of them is that some players just aint as good as they like to believe. No shame in that, but the matchmaker can't be limited by pride or sense of entitlement.

[FearThePaladin]

Heck drop me into teir 5.. lets tear it up! LOL LOL

[General Solo]

Paul, as a few others have said, it is not the over performing pilots on the losing side causing the upward bias.
It is caused by the fact that no matter how badly a pilot performs, they cannot lose PSR if their team wins.
A win that poorly performing pilot did not contribute to, a win given to them by team mates.

I agree to a reset of PSR

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 26 May 2020 - 04:59 AM.

[Sniper09121986]

Nearly Dead, on 26 May 2020 - 04:29 AM, said:

The other thing that needs addressed by the groups themselves is team comms. If you drop with one four man and 8 solo players and use your Teamspeak or discord or whatever VOIP comms you use between matches, you are depriving the rest of the team the chance to learn to play with an organized team and unless you are one of the uber-units who can carry a match even if the other players sit in the DZ, throwing away a resource.

PGI, is there a path to improve in game comms to make it attractive to groups so they can communicate in the in game comms before, during and after the matches? I think it would result in better matches and a more positive experience for most of the players.

The problem is real, but this is the rare area where I think PGI has done everything that could be done. The in-game VOIP is literally one button-push away, but they cannot go and press that button for you (not you, but you get it). And they cannot make third-party VOIP programs go away either. This problem is 100% between keyboard and chair. PGI might look into improving sound quality, but otherwise they have no control over who other people want to talk to.

[Prince of Kyrgyzstan]

Reset PSR and go for zero sum approach.

[Kurlon]

So, it appears years of the current malfunctioning 'tier' system have trained some of the population to think tiers are unlocks like classes of ships in World of Warships, an achievement that once garnered can never go away. Additionally they now "deserve" to play in top skill level matches. But PGI was already aware of this, which is why they didn't just say they're resetting things but instead asked what the community feels.

So, as noted before, the 'tier' system right now in combination with the matchmaker's doors being not just open but ripped clean off the hinges means you could literally just randomize people's PSR before each round of matchmaker action and not radically alter the overall gameplay at the moment. My updated proposal then is not only a PSR reset, but a UI change, get rid of Tier in the UI. Show the PSR/ELO number, or come up with a new name for the brackets, or just not show it at all, but don't continue to call it Tier. That allows the portion of the population who wishes for better balance in matches to see some light at the end of the tunnel, while also allowing those that think of Tier as an achievement bar to hold on to the memory of their old 'rank' without the UI trying to tell them otherwise after the change.